Confederate Emblems to be Removed Nationwide.

[West Aurelia]

I think it's five times.

Might be, though my recollection is it is five states=>four subdivisions.

Five states is correct, but it would be five subdivisions then. 1 divided by 4 makes four states, not five.

[Dyakovo]

If you think I am joking, then please take in consideration that an explanation for your statement about joking would be accepted better, very much, thank you.

I am Netherlandic and not from the States, if you want to know.

The problem here is that this flag was flying on US government property. It's not being banned, it's being removed from government property. And also from several Walmart and Sears stores (the first is pretty much a gigantic supermarket, from what I've seen of it; I thought the latter was a furniture store, but I'm not sure).

Both Walmart and Sears are department stores.

[Dyakovo]

Yes, take it down.

It should be removed, because the Confederate flag resembles hate, and besides. Why would you have a Confederate Flag at a US Memorial?

Meh, whilst you're at it you had better take down the US Flag, I mean all those slaves that were transported and kept in captivity under the star and stripes.

The US wasn't founded for the purpose of maintaining racially based slavery.

[Living Freedom Land]

Haven't more people been massacred and killed unjustly under the US flag than any Confederate flag?

Let's ban it too.

[Ifreann]

I seem to recall from previous threads that the Confederacy actually had their eyes on lots of other people's land and very much wanted to spread their "peculiar institution" there.

Indeed. Prior to the secession and civil war, a number of Southerners led private military expeditions into Central America in order to create new slave states. Had the Confederacy won there is no doubt in my mind that these would have continued under the direct support of the Confederate government.

And didn't their constitution have a clause saying that they could make new territories and states and those would all practice slavery?

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Might be, though my recollection is it is five states=>four subdivisions.

Five states is correct, but it would be five subdivisions then. 1 divided by 4 makes four states, not five.

Personally I doubt Texas can make any new states without at least congressional approval.

[Heraklea-]

Might be, though my recollection is it is five states=>four subdivisions.

Five states is correct, but it would be five subdivisions then. 1 divided by 4 makes four states, not five.

First division creates a second state, second division creates a third, third creates a fourth, fourth creates a fifth.

[Carriebean7]

privately, I don't the flag as a symbol of hate, yes that flag was popular thanks to the KKK, and the Civil Rights movement, but that's not the official csa, flag. the First csa flag was not the stars and bars, but THIS...

http://i694.photobucket.com/albums/vv304/marie_feazell/Marie%20Avatars%20-%20Images/Confederate%20Battle%20Flag/confed_flags2.gif

that is not the same one.

although, their last flag looked a lot like their battle flag ( AKA the flag that we assume) just with white on it. so I can completely understand why that is now a symbol for it, because some people cut the white off of it, or just got it without the white. granted I understand why we don't like to talk about our pasts, that that's perfectly fine.

[Ifreann]

Haven't more people been massacred and killed unjustly under the US flag than any Confederate flag?

Let's ban it too.

No one's banning anything, sweetie.

[Vassenor]

As a non-American looking in, I don't think states (with the exception of Texas) can vote to leave the country, that was the issue that actually sparked the Civil War and was resolved at the end of the conflict.

Though I do think that states should have that ability to keep the central government in check.

Texas can't either and never could. Despite popular belief there's no "get out of the union free" clause in the Texas state constitution.

[Gauthier]

Haven't more people been massacred and killed unjustly under the US flag than any Confederate flag?

Let's ban it too.

No one's banning anything, sweetie.

Voluntary removal is censorship didn't you know? TV shows, flags, if an entity hosting it decides to remove it that means Ebil Gubmint banned it. *nod*

[West Aurelia]

Personally I doubt Texas can make any new states without at least congressional approval.

It's in their Constitution.

Five states is correct, but it would be five subdivisions then. 1 divided by 4 makes four states, not five.

First division creates a second state, second division creates a third, third creates a fourth, fourth creates a fifth.

I think I interpreted what you meant by "subdivision" differently...

Anyway, we all know it's five states, so it's settled.

[Ifreann]

As a non-American looking in, I don't think states (with the exception of Texas) can vote to leave the country, that was the issue that actually sparked the Civil War and was resolved at the end of the conflict.

Though I do think that states should have that ability to keep the central government in check.

Texas can't either and never could. Despite popular belief there's no "get out of the union free" clause in the Texas state constitution.

And even if there was, the US Constitution has supremacy over the state constitutions.

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Personally I doubt Texas can make any new states without at least congressional approval.

It's in their Constitution.

See above.

[Dyakovo]

[
If conscription is slavery,

It isn't.

[Farnhamia]

Do you think you'll last very long before another ban?

Nah bruh
What do you people have against trolling? I mean really. It's just some harmless fun!

*** DEAT for continued trolling and defense of trolling ***

[Dyakovo]

Personally I doubt Texas can make any new states without at least congressional approval.

It's in their Constitution.

No, it isn't.

[West Aurelia]

It's in their Constitution.

See above.

Right, Article IV.

I just checked the Texas Constitution and couldn't find anything about it, so I think that's just a misconception.

[Dyakovo]

See above.

Right, Article IV.

I just checked the Texas Constitution and couldn't find anything about it, so I think that's just a misconception.

It was included in earlier versions of their constitution, but was removed.

[Ifreann]

Right, Article IV.

I just checked the Texas Constitution and couldn't find anything about it, so I think that's just a misconception.

It was included in earlier versions of their constitution, but was removed.

Texans living in the past, eh?

[Heraklea-]

It was however in Joint Resolution for Annexing Texas to the United States.

[Farnhamia]

It was however in Joint Resolution for Annexing Texas to the United States.

Yes, and that's open to debate. It's also not on topic. If you want to start a new thread on Texas divisionism, feel free.

[Lockdownn]

Ain't this a dream come true.

People have finally come to their senses to remove ALL trace of it.

I'm fine with not flying it on government buildings and what not but who's fucking idea was it to to stop selling merchandise, and stuff just because it had it on?

You wanna take that a step further and I don't know ban the Nazi Germany flag and Japanese flag from being sold as well? I mean that shit was much more recent and took more lives but hey no they can keep living in their own imaginary world....

[Ostroeuropa]

Nations are often founded for terrible reasons, often racist or sectarian ones. The confederacy is no different, except in that it lost the war. However, southern culture and southern pride, as well as the beginnings of the concept of a southern"nation" or "people" are bound up in the flag to some people.
I would say that it's wrong to force them to take down the flag.

When I see the Irish flag, I see a symbol of Irish Ethnic Nationalism and Irredentism, and thus racism. But I seriously doubt that's what Irish people see. Similarly, I'm prepared to think that the confederate flag is used by southerners as a way of expressing southern pride, values, etc.

I think taking down the flag and such is a bad idea.

Would you agree that, as an explicit symbol of outright treason for stupid reasons, the flag should not be flown on government property?

It's not a symbol of slavery, it's a symbol of state pride.

"The Nazi flag isn't a symbol of racism, it's a symbol of economic rejuvenation."

It was a foreign nation that was once at war with the USA. Are foreign flags of nations previously at war with the US occasionally flown on government property? Yes.
The US flag is flown on British government property on occasion, as an example.
The treason thing is a red herring.

[Gauthier]

Would you agree that, as an explicit symbol of outright treason for stupid reasons, the flag should not be flown on government property?

"The Nazi flag isn't a symbol of racism, it's a symbol of economic rejuvenation."

It was a foreign nation that was once at war with the USA. Are foreign flags of nations previously at war with the US occasionally flown on government property? Yes.
The US flag is flown on British government property on occasion, as an example.
The treason thing is a red herring.

Are the Confederate States still a nation today? Nope. So red herring there.

[Heraklea-]

Ain't this a dream come true.

People have finally come to their senses to remove ALL trace of it.

I'm fine with not flying it on government buildings and what not but who's fucking idea was it to to stop selling merchandise, and stuff just because it had it on?

You wanna take that a step further and I don't know ban the Nazi Germany flag and Japanese flag from being sold as well? I mean that shit was much more recent and took more lives but hey no they can keep living in their own imaginary world....

These companies are not being forced by the government to stop selling or producing these flags. They are doing it by choice. They are making a responsible and just decision. One of the first times in my life I might applaud Walmart.

[Cymrea]

It was a foreign nation that was once at war with the USA. Are foreign flags of nations previously at war with the US occasionally flown on government property? Yes.
The US flag is flown on British government property on occasion, as an example.
The treason thing is a red herring.

Are the Confederate States still a nation today? Nope. So red herring there.

Was the CSA ever a country? They may have declared themselves one, but the Union did not recognise is as such. Hilariously hypocritical given how the Union came to be, but regardless, since the north won the war, the prevailing government can - and did - refuse to recognise that the Confederacy was ever a country. At least, I'm pretty sure.

If someone has a source that indicates the CSA was recognised as a nation by the Union, I'd be much obliged.