Confederate Emblems to be Removed Nationwide.

[Wallenburg]

That is like comparing the Sons of Liberty to ISIS.

The Confederacy didn't kill 11 million people in the civil war. They didn't even have half as many slaves. Both were horrible events in history, but they were nothing alike otherwise.

It doesn't really matter how many gets killed, at the end of the day are the ideals they both have when it comes to race, the same?
And if so apart from the fact that they are two seperate entities in the confines of history, what makes them different. You have to remember, society as a whole groups ideals into one big van, i.e. The West for Democracy, The East for Communism, The Christians for acceptance (sort of) and the Muslims for radicalism, etc, etc.

Dear God. You just insulted billions of people.

[New haven america]

There are no Confederates alive to be discriminated against.

there is a neo-confederate movement

And most of the members live in their parents basements, your point?

[Tayner]

Most people in the Confederacy didn't want to invade the north.

I'm sure most Germans didn't want to massacre jews or invade the USSR. The government still did it, and the symbols of that government and their military is rightfully shunned.

Even Jefferson Davis didn't want to invade the north. It was solely Robert E. Lee's idea.

[The Republic of Pantalleria]

It doesn't really matter how many gets killed, at the end of the day are the ideals they both have when it comes to race, the same?
And if so apart from the fact that they are two seperate entities in the confines of history, what makes them different. You have to remember, society as a whole groups ideals into one big van, i.e. The West for Democracy, The East for Communism, The Christians for acceptance (sort of) and the Muslims for radicalism, etc, etc.

I think that just might be how you see the world...

Well a part of it is of my opinion I should say, nontheless if their actions were for the same ideal, then what distinguishes one from the other, apart from national identity.

[The Nuclear Fist]

I'm sure most Germans didn't want to massacre jews or invade the USSR. The government still did it, and the symbols of that government and their military is rightfully shunned.

Even Jefferson Davis didn't want to invade the north. It was solely Robert E. Lee's idea.

First off, source.

Secondly, he still allowed it and didn't condemn it. That makes him every bit as culpable.

[Nazi Flower Power]

Well to be fair, the same argument can be made about the Nazi flag, and that one no longer flies in the same way it did in the 30s and 40s.

Some people still fly the Nazi flag, but the same argument can't be used.

See, Germany was offensive, and imperialist, and they also committed one of the worst genocides in history.

But the Confederacy just wanted to defend their land and keep things the way they were.

Completeish opposites.

Next time, don't start a violent rebellion.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

There are no Confederates alive to be discriminated against.

there is a neo-confederate movement

Yeah. It's largely racist and historically revisionist.

Lee would have been ashamed of people like Michael Hill.

[The Republic of Pantalleria]

It doesn't really matter how many gets killed, at the end of the day are the ideals they both have when it comes to race, the same?
And if so apart from the fact that they are two seperate entities in the confines of history, what makes them different. You have to remember, society as a whole groups ideals into one big van, i.e. The West for Democracy, The East for Communism, The Christians for acceptance (sort of) and the Muslims for radicalism, etc, etc.

Dear God. You just insulted billions of people.

Just using examples from the oversimplifications used to mark the stark divide of the World during the Cold War in the eyes of the U.S.
(I'm not a CANADIAN don't judge me )

[Nazi Flower Power]

1. Some people still fly the Nazi flag, but the same argument can't be used.

See, Germany was offensive, and imperialist, and they also committed one of the worst genocides in history.

2. But the Confederacy just wanted to defend their land and keep things the way they were.

Completeish opposites.

1. Not in public in Germany, why? Cause it's banned due to its racist meaning. As the Confederate flag should be.

1st amendment says it can't be banned from use by private individuals.

[Tayner]

Even Jefferson Davis didn't want to invade the north. It was solely Robert E. Lee's idea.

First off, source.

Secondly, he still allowed it and didn't condemn it. That makes him every bit as culpable.

http://www.historynet.com/why-did-the-s ... -north.htm

Lee's reasoning was that if they made it far enough, they could force the Union to negotiate.

[Herargon]

It feels strange and I know I should be careful asking this.. but if the Confederate flag is forbidden now, is the Nazi swastika that too? Since, even more than the Confederate war flag, the Nazi flag represents hate and discrimination.

[Wallenburg]

Dear God. You just insulted billions of people.

Just using examples from the oversimplifications used to mark the stark divide of the World during the Cold War in the eyes of the U.S.
(I'm not a CANADIAN don't judge me )

You better be. Otherwise you're worse than the neo-Confeds.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

It feels strange and I know I should be careful asking this.. but if the Confederate flag is forbidden now, is the Nazi swastika that too? Since, even more than the Confederate war flag, the Nazi flag represents hate and discrimination.

...literally no one flies the Nazi flag on government property.

[Kisinger]

It feels strange and I know I should be careful asking this.. but if the Confederate flag is forbidden now, is the Nazi swastika that too? Since, even more than the Confederate war flag, the Nazi flag represents hate and discrimination.

I don't know if you are just joking or what but... No they are both going to be around until the First Amendment is struck down(never happening)

Unless you mean on Government Property then neither should be shown...

[Nazi Flower Power]

There are no Confederates alive to be discriminated against.

there is a neo-confederate movement

Which should be opposed.

[New haven america]

1. Not in public in Germany, why? Cause it's banned due to its racist meaning. As the Confederate flag should be.

1st amendment says it can't be banned from use by private individuals.

Ya, I know.

The Confederate flag still isn't a good symbol to have in a country.

[West Aurelia]

But the Confederacy just wanted to defend their land and keep things the way they were.

From the Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union:

A geographical line has been drawn across the Union, and all the States north of that line have united in the election of a man to the high office of President of the United States, whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery. He is to be entrusted with the administration of the common Government, because he has declared that that “Government cannot endure permanently half slave, half free,” and that the public mind must rest in the belief that slavery is in the course of ultimate extinction. This sectional combination for the submersion of the Constitution, has been aided in some of the States by elevating to citizenship, persons who, by the supreme law of the land, are incapable of becoming citizens; and their votes have been used to inaugurate a new policy, hostile to the South, and destructive of its beliefs and safety.

From A Declaration of the Immediate Causes which Induce and Justify the Secession of the State of Mississippi from the Federal Union:

Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery - the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin.

Louisiana Commissioner George Williamson wrote to the Texas secession convention on February 11, 1861:

The people of the slave holding States are bound together by the same necessity and determination to preserve African slavery.

The Alabama General Assembly proclaimed:

That the State of Alabama, fully concuring with the State of South Carolina, in affirming the right of any State to secede from the confederacy, whenever in her own judgment such a step is demanded by the honor, interests and safety of her people, is not unmindful of the fact that the assaults upon the institution of slavery, and upon the rights and equality of the Southern States, unceasingly continued with increasing violence and in new, and more alarming forms, may constrain her to a reluctant but early exercise of that invaluable right.

From A Declaration of the Causes which Impel the State of Texas to Secede from the Federal Union:

In all the non-slave-holding States, in violation of that good faith and comity which should exist between entirely distinct nations, the people have formed themselves into a great sectional party, now strong enough in numbers to control the affairs of each of those States, based upon an unnatural feeling of hostility to these Southern States and their beneficent and patriarchal system of African slavery, proclaiming the debasing doctrine of equality of all men, irrespective of race or color - a doctrine at war with nature, in opposition to the experience of mankind, and in violation of the plainest revelations of Divine Law. They demand the abolition of negro slavery throughout the confederacy, the recognition of political equality between the white and negro races, and avow their determination to press on their crusade against us, so long as a negro slave remains in these States.

AND

We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable.

That in this free government all white men are and of right ought to be entitled to equal civil and political rights; that the servitude of the African race, as existing in these States, is mutually beneficial to both bond and free, and is abundantly authorized and justified by the experience of mankind, and the revealed will of the Almighty Creator, as recognized by all Christian nations; while the destruction of the existing relations between the two races, as advocated by our sectional enemies, would bring inevitable calamities upon both and desolation upon the fifteen slave-holding states.

It's true that there were other reasons the southern states seceded, but to deny that slavery was one of the major causes is ignorant of the secession declarations put forth by the states themselves.

[Herargon]

It feels strange and I know I should be careful asking this.. but if the Confederate flag is forbidden now, is the Nazi swastika that too? Since, even more than the Confederate war flag, the Nazi flag represents hate and discrimination.

I don't know if you are just joking or what but... No they are both going to be around until the First Amendment is struck down(never happening)

Unless you mean on Government Property then neither should be shown...

If you think I am joking, then please take in consideration that an explanation for your statement about joking would be accepted better, very much, thank you.

I am Netherlandic and not from the States, if you want to know.

[Dooom35796821595]

You can argue whether or not it's racist but it's still a group of people who committed treason agaisnt their nation to oppress a group of people just sick it's celebrated at all

A group of people who committed treason against a nation founded by traitors...so who's in the wrong?

(Obviously slavery=bad, but on the treason charges alone.)

[Nazi Flower Power]

The Confeds stole federal property, fired the first shot, and invaded the North. They're hardly innocent defenders. Any flag used by the the Confederate slaver scum should be shunned, doused in gas, and torched.

Most people in the Confederacy didn't want to invade the north.

Most people in Germany didn't want to invade Poland.

[Tayner]

But the Confederacy just wanted to defend their land and keep things the way they were.

From the Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union:

A geographical line has been drawn across the Union, and all the States north of that line have united in the election of a man to the high office of President of the United States, whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery. He is to be entrusted with the administration of the common Government, because he has declared that that “Government cannot endure permanently half slave, half free,” and that the public mind must rest in the belief that slavery is in the course of ultimate extinction. This sectional combination for the submersion of the Constitution, has been aided in some of the States by elevating to citizenship, persons who, by the supreme law of the land, are incapable of becoming citizens; and their votes have been used to inaugurate a new policy, hostile to the South, and destructive of its beliefs and safety.

From A Declaration of the Immediate Causes which Induce and Justify the Secession of the State of Mississippi from the Federal Union:

Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery - the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin.

Louisiana Commissioner George Williamson wrote to the Texas secession convention on February 11, 1861:

The people of the slave holding States are bound together by the same necessity and determination to preserve African slavery.

The Alabama General Assembly proclaimed:

That the State of Alabama, fully concuring with the State of South Carolina, in affirming the right of any State to secede from the confederacy, whenever in her own judgment such a step is demanded by the honor, interests and safety of her people, is not unmindful of the fact that the assaults upon the institution of slavery, and upon the rights and equality of the Southern States, unceasingly continued with increasing violence and in new, and more alarming forms, may constrain her to a reluctant but early exercise of that invaluable right.

From A Declaration of the Causes which Impel the State of Texas to Secede from the Federal Union:

In all the non-slave-holding States, in violation of that good faith and comity which should exist between entirely distinct nations, the people have formed themselves into a great sectional party, now strong enough in numbers to control the affairs of each of those States, based upon an unnatural feeling of hostility to these Southern States and their beneficent and patriarchal system of African slavery, proclaiming the debasing doctrine of equality of all men, irrespective of race or color - a doctrine at war with nature, in opposition to the experience of mankind, and in violation of the plainest revelations of Divine Law. They demand the abolition of negro slavery throughout the confederacy, the recognition of political equality between the white and negro races, and avow their determination to press on their crusade against us, so long as a negro slave remains in these States.

AND

We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable.

That in this free government all white men are and of right ought to be entitled to equal civil and political rights; that the servitude of the African race, as existing in these States, is mutually beneficial to both bond and free, and is abundantly authorized and justified by the experience of mankind, and the revealed will of the Almighty Creator, as recognized by all Christian nations; while the destruction of the existing relations between the two races, as advocated by our sectional enemies, would bring inevitable calamities upon both and desolation upon the fifteen slave-holding states.

It's true that there were other reasons the southern states seceded, but to deny that slavery was one of the major causes is ignorant of the secession declarations put forth by the states themselves.

I never said that slavery wasn't a major cause of a civil war, it was just one of the things white southerners wanted to keep the same.

[New haven america]

It feels strange and I know I should be careful asking this.. but if the Confederate flag is forbidden now, is the Nazi swastika that too? Since, even more than the Confederate war flag, the Nazi flag represents hate and discrimination.

No, they're both still allowed in the US, due to the 1st amendment we can't get rid of them.

[West Aurelia]

From the Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union:



From A Declaration of the Immediate Causes which Induce and Justify the Secession of the State of Mississippi from the Federal Union:



Louisiana Commissioner George Williamson wrote to the Texas secession convention on February 11, 1861:



The Alabama General Assembly proclaimed:



From A Declaration of the Causes which Impel the State of Texas to Secede from the Federal Union:



AND



It's true that there were other reasons the southern states seceded, but to deny that slavery was one of the major causes is ignorant of the secession declarations put forth by the states themselves.

I never said that slavery wasn't a major cause of a civil war, it was just one of the things white southerners wanted to keep the same.

Ah, my bad. I thought you were talking about preserving southern heritage or something.

[Tayner]

Most people in the Confederacy didn't want to invade the north.

Most people in Germany didn't want to invade Poland.

But the entire Government did. The only reason the south invaded the north was because Lee thought that if he could get far enough fast enough, that he could force the Union to Negotiate.

[Kisinger]

I don't know if you are just joking or what but... No they are both going to be around until the First Amendment is struck down(never happening)

Unless you mean on Government Property then neither should be shown...

If you think I am joking, then please take in consideration that an explanation for your statement about joking would be accepted better, very much, thank you.

I am Netherlandic and not from the States, if you want to know.

Because Americans are usually outspoken(at least the ones I know and talk to a lot) about their Amendments(Freedom of Speech and Right to bear Arms etc etc) and considering you came to this thread I expected you to know the First Amendment of the US Constitution, which is the the Freedom of Speech and assumed you were joking based on that, also because I have a slightly twisted sense of humor.

Oh good, I never see enough Dutchmen around :3