Ukraine Megathread: Crimea River Part Deux

[Estruia]

I think it is safe to say that Right Sector and the Ukrainian Government are not in cahoots together.

[The balkens]

I think it is safe to say that Right Sector and the Ukrainian Government are not in cahoots together.

Well there goes some of the dumb muscle. All well.

[United Marxist Nations]

I think it is safe to say that Right Sector and the Ukrainian Government are not in cahoots together.

Hopefully the death won't be in-vain and the government will realize that it can't continue to appease Right Sector.

[Estruia]

I think it is safe to say that Right Sector and the Ukrainian Government are not in cahoots together.

Hopefully the death won't be in-vain and the government will realize that it can't continue to appease Right Sector.

I don't think they have been. I mean, the Government is in the process of granting the East more autonomy, which goes directly against the ideology of Right Sector.

[The balkens]

I think it is safe to say that Right Sector and the Ukrainian Government are not in cahoots together.

Hopefully the death won't be in-vain and the government will realize that it can't continue to appease Right Sector.

Same could be said about MH-17 and the rebels but you know, semantics.

[United Marxist Nations]

Hopefully the death won't be in-vain and the government will realize that it can't continue to appease Right Sector.

I don't think they have been. I mean, the Government is in the process of granting the East more autonomy, which goes directly against the ideology of Right Sector.

Well, Poroshenko has been in the process of granting more autonomy. The Ukrainian government certainly isn't showing much unity on the matter. Yatsenyuk on the other hand, one could go as far as to say that he supports them because it gives him leverage over his more moderate colleagues.

[Estruia]

I don't think they have been. I mean, the Government is in the process of granting the East more autonomy, which goes directly against the ideology of Right Sector.

Well, Poroshenko has been in the process of granting more autonomy. The Ukrainian government certainly isn't showing much unity on the matter. Yatsenyuk on the other hand, one could go as far as to say that he supports them because it gives him leverage over his more moderate colleagues.

One man, a Government does not make. Yatsy is more than likely a loner in his support of the Right Sector.

[Qart chadast]

I think it is safe to say that Right Sector and the Ukrainian Government are not in cahoots together.

This is why the EU and other western countries should have kept their dirty hands off Ukraine. Its becoming a paradise for neo-nazi's and the government doesn't even have the balls to stand up against them properly becouse they're too concerned about Russia, which on its turn has been provoked by western interferance into their influence sphere.

its domino day all together and i wonder when its going to end.

[Estruia]

I think it is safe to say that Right Sector and the Ukrainian Government are not in cahoots together.

This is why the EU and other western countries should have kept their dirty hands off Ukraine. Its becoming a paradise for neo-nazi's and the government doesn't even have the balls to stand up against them properly becouse they're too concerned about Russia, which on its turn has been provoked by western interferance into their influence sphere.

its domino day all together and i wonder when its going to end.

Russia keeps talking about Neo-Nazis in Ukraine, yet are doing nothing to help out the neighbor they pretend to be oh-so concerned about. Instead of funding and training rebels, which causes a rise in Nationalist fervor and Neo-Nazi activity, they should have worked with the Ukrainian Government to stabilize the country.

I guess it is pretty easy to criticize a country when your hindsight is 20/20.

[Qart chadast]

This is why the EU and other western countries should have kept their dirty hands off Ukraine. Its becoming a paradise for neo-nazi's and the government doesn't even have the balls to stand up against them properly becouse they're too concerned about Russia, which on its turn has been provoked by western interferance into their influence sphere.

its domino day all together and i wonder when its going to end.

Russia keeps talking about Neo-Nazis in Ukraine, yet are doing nothing to help out the neighbor they pretend to be oh-so concerned about. Instead of funding and training rebels, which causes a rise in Nationalist fervor and Neo-Nazi activity, they should have worked with the Ukrainian Government to stabilize the country.

I guess it is pretty easy to criticize a country when your hindsight is 20/20.

Why would you help a neighbour who is hostile towards you and who's previous government illegally was overthrown by those neo-nazi's supported by anti-you nations in the first place? Exactly.
Don't try to portray things like they are black and white, they're really not.

[The balkens]

Russia keeps talking about Neo-Nazis in Ukraine, yet are doing nothing to help out the neighbor they pretend to be oh-so concerned about. Instead of funding and training rebels, which causes a rise in Nationalist fervor and Neo-Nazi activity, they should have worked with the Ukrainian Government to stabilize the country.

I guess it is pretty easy to criticize a country when your hindsight is 20/20.

Why would you help a neighbour who is hostile towards you and who's previous government illegally was overthrown by those neo-nazi's supported by anti-you nations in the first place? Exactly.
Don't try to portray things like they are black and white, they're really not.

First CIA agents then Neo Nazis?

[Occupied Deutschland]

Russia keeps talking about Neo-Nazis in Ukraine, yet are doing nothing to help out the neighbor they pretend to be oh-so concerned about. Instead of funding and training rebels, which causes a rise in Nationalist fervor and Neo-Nazi activity, they should have worked with the Ukrainian Government to stabilize the country.

I guess it is pretty easy to criticize a country when your hindsight is 20/20.

Why would you help a neighbour who is hostile towards you and who's previous government illegally was overthrown by those neo-nazi's supported by anti-you nations in the first place? Exactly.
Don't try to portray things like they are black and white, they're really not.

Indeed. Which is why it's gratifying to see you criticizing Russia's support for (particularly in regards to Crimea) neo-nazi groups that side with them.

[Chossudovsky]

Right Sector terrorist Oleg Sentsov sentenced to twenty years labour

Good decision by the court and good work from the Crimean authorities in averting another Odessa style massacre.

He was a FUCKING FILM DIRECTOR!?

Jesus Bearfucking christ, i didnt know producing film is "Terrorism" in Russia! Might as well arrest those fuckers that film abusing LGBT people!

What? No? That doesnt apply!?

A film director who tried to burn down two buildings and was plotting to set off a bomb, which he confessed to only to then deny it later to try and pretend like he is some sort of political prisoner

Let's not forget this was not even the first attempt by Right Sector to attach Russia directly - another operative called Yury Yatsenko was caught near Kursk plotting to set off a bomb and convicted.

[Qart chadast]

Why would you help a neighbour who is hostile towards you and who's previous government illegally was overthrown by those neo-nazi's supported by anti-you nations in the first place? Exactly.
Don't try to portray things like they are black and white, they're really not.

First CIA agents then Neo Nazis?

What are you talking about?

Why would you help a neighbour who is hostile towards you and who's previous government illegally was overthrown by those neo-nazi's supported by anti-you nations in the first place? Exactly.
Don't try to portray things like they are black and white, they're really not.

Indeed. Which is why it's gratifying to see you criticizing Russia's support for (particularly in regards to Crimea) neo-nazi groups that side with them.

Have i anywhere said that i don't?
Don't just assume random crap, we're talking about the neo-nazi's supported by the EU and US now, not about those who were supported by Russia. Keep yourself to the subject please.

[New Werpland]

Indeed. Which is why it's gratifying to see you criticizing Russia's support for (particularly in regards to Crimea) neo-nazi groups that side with them.

Have i anywhere said that i don't?
Don't just assume random crap, we're talking about the neo-nazi's supported by the EU and US now, not about those who were supported by Russia. Keep yourself to the subject please.

The Ukrainian government does not support Right Sector, as the article Etruia posted clearly shows. Perhaps they haven't been vigilant enough against Right Sector, though I don't think that makes them Nazis?

On the other hand if you do believe that it constitutes Neo Nazism, then wouldn't the Russian government be Neo Nazi for their shielding of Neo Nazi groups via this and this?

[Qart chadast]

Have i anywhere said that i don't?
Don't just assume random crap, we're talking about the neo-nazi's supported by the EU and US now, not about those who were supported by Russia. Keep yourself to the subject please.

The Ukrainian government does not support Right Sector, as the article Etruia posted clearly shows. Perhaps they haven't been vigilant enough against Right Sector, though I don't think that makes them Nazis?

On the other hand if you do believe that it constitutes Neo Nazism, then couldn't the Russian government be Neo Nazi as well for their shielding of Neo Nazi groups via this and this?

Those "right sector" has clearly proven itself to be a bunch of neo nazi's and nothing more. And the "government" of Ukraine doesn't do shit against them becouse they brought this "government" to power.

And once more, don't change the subject, we're talking about the neo-nazi's who are currently holding their "protest" in Kiev.
I have never said anything about other neo-nazi's and i won't say anything about them at this point either as it isn't part of the subject i was adressing.

[Estruia]

The Ukrainian government does not support Right Sector, as the article Etruia posted clearly shows. Perhaps they haven't been vigilant enough against Right Sector, though I don't think that makes them Nazis?

On the other hand if you do believe that it constitutes Neo Nazism, then couldn't the Russian government be Neo Nazi as well for their shielding of Neo Nazi groups via this and this?

Those "right sector" has clearly proven itself to be a bunch of neo nazi's and nothing more. And the "government" of Ukraine doesn't do shit against them becouse they brought this "government" to power.

And once more, don't change the subject, we're talking about the neo-nazi's who are currently holding their "protest" in Kiev.
I have never said anything about other neo-nazi's and i won't say anything about them at this point either as it isn't part of the subject i was adressing.

They don't do anything, aside from deploying National Guardsmen to combat Right Sector Protesters/Rioters. So....

[Shofercia]

Right Sector terrorist Oleg Sentsov sentenced to twenty years labour

Good decision by the court and good work from the Crimean authorities in averting another Odessa style massacre.

Nicely done! Although you should quote the relevant parts of the articles next time, here, I'll do it for you since you're fairly new:

The North Caucasus District Military Court on Tuesday found Ukrainian filmmaker Oleg Sentsov guilty of conspiracy to commit terrorist attacks in Crimea and sentenced him to 20 years in prison. His accomplice Alexander Kolchenko got ten years in prison... According to investigators, Sentsov set up in Crimea a terrorist group, which set two offices on fire in Simferopol, Crimea’s capital, in the spring of 2014...

That's the least that you should quote, since NSGers are notoriously lazy when it comes to link clicking. Anyways, good find! I wonder, who would have a problem with placing an arson-wielding alleged terrorist behind bars?

Right Sector terrorist Oleg Sentsov sentenced to twenty years labour

Good decision by the court and good work from the Crimean authorities in averting another Odessa style massacre.

He was a FUCKING FILM DIRECTOR!?

Jesus Bearfucking christ, i didnt know producing film is "Terrorism" in Russia! Might as well arrest those fuckers that film abusing LGBT people!

What? No? That doesnt apply!?

Of course! Here's the thing balkens: if you're burning buildings that might have people in them, that's what we call a felony. And felons can be sentenced to a place called a jail. I understand the outrage that you must feel as another one bites the dust, (actually I don't,) but amazingly enough people don't want to be lit on fire. It doesn't really matter that he's a film director, or that you'll bring up LGBT. An arsonist, who's also, quite possibly, a terrorist, is behind bars where he cannot hurt anyone. That's a good thing.

and nothing of value was lost. apparently.

And from the article, id say the trial was highly politicized, akin to the Rosenberg trial.

Can you prove that he checked that no one was inside those buildings when he destroyed them with arson? While I know that some people love being burned repeatedly, most people aren't fans of being burned at all. Not even figuratively. Thus far you've brought up LGBT and the Rosenbergs, while defending an arsonist's right to burn office buildings. What else will you bring up?

Nobody fucking died, apparently. If its against some piece of Russian architecture, i'd see not problem against it.

Just to clarify, you're ok with someone burning your house down while you're on vacation?

I assume that destruction of property is legal in your country then?

More of a Pastime to some people. Welcome to America.

Not really: http://siouxcityjournal.com/news/local/ ... 0b415.html

SIOUX CITY | A Sioux City teenager was sentenced to 10 years in prison Monday for setting fire to a house. Michael Hammond Jr., 18, pleaded guilty in November in Woodbury County District Court to second-degree arson. His sentencing was delayed after he failed to show up for his hearing in January. He was located and arrested in June. Hammond was one of four people who were charged with breaking into and setting fires at a house in the 1100 block of Villa Avenue on Sept. 1. Daisy Castillo, 33, of Sioux City, was sentenced to five years for third-degree burglary. Javen Mobley, 19, of Sioux City, was sentenced to 15 years for third-degree burglary and a drug charge unrelated to the fire. Alejandro LaPointe, 15, of Sioux City, was placed on probation and placed in a residential treatment facility. He pleaded guilty to second-degree arson and admitted to lighting a couch on fire at the house on Aug. 23.

[Costa Fierro]

Well, Poroshenko has been in the process of granting more autonomy. The Ukrainian government certainly isn't showing much unity on the matter. Yatsenyuk on the other hand, one could go as far as to say that he supports them because it gives him leverage over his more moderate colleagues.

I can't imagine it would. Both sides have understandable views, but the government actively working towards ending the conflict and giving certain regions (or maybe all of Ukraine) greater decisions over its own affairs is surely a positive step, is it not?

Although I'd be interested to see how the Russians spin this.

[Shofercia]

I mean, just look at Seattle during their Mayday Parades. That place turns into a mess.

Sometimes its art. Look at Graffiti.

You're actually comparing graffiti to arson?

I think it is safe to say that Right Sector and the Ukrainian Government are not in cahoots together.

Except for members of Kiev's current so-called Rada, which are Right Sector fanboys. A more accurate statement would be that Poroshenko isn't in cahoots with Yarosh.

Well, Poroshenko has been in the process of granting more autonomy. The Ukrainian government certainly isn't showing much unity on the matter. Yatsenyuk on the other hand, one could go as far as to say that he supports them because it gives him leverage over his more moderate colleagues.

One man, a Government does not make. Yatsy is more than likely a loner in his support of the Right Sector.

Remind me again, who's the Prime Minister of Ukraine? Oh yeah, that's right, Yatsenuyk.

This is why the EU and other western countries should have kept their dirty hands off Ukraine. Its becoming a paradise for neo-nazi's and the government doesn't even have the balls to stand up against them properly becouse they're too concerned about Russia, which on its turn has been provoked by western interferance into their influence sphere.

its domino day all together and i wonder when its going to end.

Russia keeps talking about Neo-Nazis in Ukraine, yet are doing nothing to help out the neighbor they pretend to be oh-so concerned about. Instead of funding and training rebels, which causes a rise in Nationalist fervor and Neo-Nazi activity, they should have worked with the Ukrainian Government to stabilize the country.

I guess it is pretty easy to criticize a country when your hindsight is 20/20.

Did you miss who played an active role in Yanukovich's coup, you know, the administration that Russia was ready to help rebuild Ukraine? Hint: it was Neo Nazis. And then Poroshenko told them to get lost. They refused to surrender their weapons, or get lost. This is just another escalation.

Why would you help a neighbour who is hostile towards you and who's previous government illegally was overthrown by those neo-nazi's supported by anti-you nations in the first place? Exactly.
Don't try to portray things like they are black and white, they're really not.

Indeed. Which is why it's gratifying to see you criticizing Russia's support for (particularly in regards to Crimea) neo-nazi groups that side with them.

When Crimea's Governor becomes a Neo Nazi fanboy, like Yatsenuyk, who's Ukraine's prime minister, fax me.

[Shofercia]

Well, Poroshenko has been in the process of granting more autonomy. The Ukrainian government certainly isn't showing much unity on the matter. Yatsenyuk on the other hand, one could go as far as to say that he supports them because it gives him leverage over his more moderate colleagues.

I can't imagine it would. Both sides have understandable views, but the government actively working towards ending the conflict and giving certain regions (or maybe all of Ukraine) greater decisions over its own affairs is surely a positive step, is it not?

Although I'd be interested to see how the Russians spin this.

How exactly is the view to continue a failed war, when the economy is collapsing, understandable? That's Yatsenuyk's view, not Poroshenko's. I'd be sympathetic to Poroshenko right now, if he didn't come to power through a bloody coup and attempt to exploit it to grow his chocoholic empire. You reap what you sow.

[Costa Fierro]

How exactly is the view to continue a failed war, when the economy is collapsing, understandable?

Not necessarily about continuing the war but keeping Ukraine a unitary state as opposed to what might become a more decentralized state. It would really piss of the nationalists who would think that the government is throwing them under the bus.

That's Yatsenuyk's view, not Poroshenko's. I'd be sympathetic to Poroshenko right now, if he didn't come to power through a bloody coup and attempt to exploit it to grow his chocoholic empire. You reap what you sow.

Poroshenko didn't come to power through a coup. Not sure about you, but he was elected by the Ukrainian people (well, those who were able to vote anyway).

[Shofercia]

How exactly is the view to continue a failed war, when the economy is collapsing, understandable?

Not necessarily about continuing the war but keeping Ukraine a unitary state as opposed to what might become a more decentralized state. It would really piss of the nationalists who would think that the government is throwing them under the bus.

Thing is, Ukraine can no longer survive as a unitary state. There's too much divisions between the four Ukraines, for that to occur. It'd be like forcing Scotland or Wales to adhere to every single law passed by London, and only London, on London's whim.

That's Yatsenuyk's view, not Poroshenko's. I'd be sympathetic to Poroshenko right now, if he didn't come to power through a bloody coup and attempt to exploit it to grow his chocoholic empire. You reap what you sow.

Poroshenko didn't come to power through a coup. Not sure about you, but he was elected by the Ukrainian people (well, those who were able to vote anyway).

From Wikidorkia: During the Euromaidan protests, between November 2013 and February 2014, Poroshenko actively supported the protest, including with financial support.

Sorry, my mistake on the language; I should've said "came to power as a result of a coup that he funded", instead of "through the coup".

[Estruia]

Not necessarily about continuing the war but keeping Ukraine a unitary state as opposed to what might become a more decentralized state. It would really piss of the nationalists who would think that the government is throwing them under the bus.

Thing is, Ukraine can no longer survive as a unitary state. There's too much divisions between the four Ukraines, for that to occur. It'd be like forcing Scotland or Wales to adhere to every single law passed by London, and only London, on London's whim.

Poroshenko didn't come to power through a coup. Not sure about you, but he was elected by the Ukrainian people (well, those who were able to vote anyway).

From Wikidorkia: During the Euromaidan protests, between November 2013 and February 2014, Poroshenko actively supported the protest, including with financial support.

Sorry, my mistake on the language; I should've said "came to power as a result of a coup that he funded", instead of "through the coup".

It's already basically like that. London basically rules the rest of the UK.

[Costa Fierro]

Thing is, Ukraine can no longer survive as a unitary state. There's too much divisions between the four Ukraines, for that to occur. It'd be like forcing Scotland or Wales to adhere to every single law passed by London, and only London, on London's whim.

Well, that sort of happens anyway. Scotland doesn't actually have full legislative control over itself and Westminster can actually amend what legislation can be passed and extend it's influence over it. Wales, believe it or not, has more legislative power than Scotland does, as the National Assembly of Wales can actually pass legislation without consulting Westminster.

From Wikidorkia: During the Euromaidan protests, between November 2013 and February 2014, Poroshenko actively supported the protest, including with financial support.

Sorry, my mistake on the language; I should've said "came to power as a result of a coup that he funded", instead of "through the coup".

I'm fairly sure he wasn't the only one that funded the protests.