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Ukraine Megathread: Crimea River Part Deux

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Dortmundia
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Postby Dortmundia » Wed Aug 12, 2015 6:37 pm

Shofercia wrote:.


Dortmundia, you've been caught using the "Trust My Experts" tactic. Yellow card. Don't do it again. Also, if that's the case with Lithuania, (which I doubt,) that means that Lithuania was overpaying GazProm.[/quote]
Well, Lithuania used to had the most expensive gas supply in Europe.
As of end-2013, Lithuania was paying one of the highest prices for gas in the European Union at around $485 per 1,000 cubic metres.


The same source says its LNG terminal is sufficient. It seem Rushka and Gazprom were purposely using its monopoly in Lithuania to have the prises as higher as possible.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/reuter ... n-gas.html



That's a chart showing oil falling from $110 to $60. That's almost a 50% decline. Russia's economy declined by 1.1 percent. When product A falls by 40%, and product B falls by 1%, we know that product B is not dependent on product A. We, (most NSGers,) know that. You might not, Dortmundia.

That is not how economy works. Russian economy will not collapse over night, nor it is imposible anywhere. It is happening through a period of time. Like now, economic decline of Rushka is in the second quartal of 2015 -4,6%. Next quartal it will be even higher and so on. You still did not answer my question. If Russian economy is not dependant on oil how come the recession in Russia started at the same time as the oil started to fall and how come it is not recovering?

You article is still from February. I would suggest you to read this http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/ ... 19412.html


It's really not nitpicking. You said that an Orthodox country cannot have a successful economy. I pointed out that's bullshit, and showed you factual evidence. You proceeded to call that nitpicking, and regurgitate the oil bullshit that was discredited a while ago. Then again, you actually think that Ksenia Sobchak might come to power in Russia, why not go straight for John McCain?

Russia has no true economy nor industry, it is all about oil. Once oil is gone it will be back in the 90s. Also, please point me some other Orthodox country with successfull economy besides Russia (let us for the purpose imagine that rusia in fact has an economy)?

Yes, Russians loved father figures so much that we couped the Csar. Oh wait, that makes no sense.

They did not. It was the russian elite who removed the Tsar and replaced him with a new autocrat. The Russians are to government depended so it hard for them to have a democracy and economy.

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Dortmundia
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Postby Dortmundia » Wed Aug 12, 2015 6:38 pm

Anyway good news. OPEC kicked il into 30%. That will destroy Putin and for us who must import oil from Russia, it will make us the imports more cheaper.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/opec-just ... 20244.html

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United Marxist Nations
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Postby United Marxist Nations » Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:00 pm

Why do you call it "Rushka"?
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Shofercia
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Postby Shofercia » Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:15 pm

Dortmundia wrote:
Shofercia wrote:Dortmundia, you've been caught using the "Trust My Experts" tactic. Yellow card. Don't do it again. Also, if that's the case with Lithuania, (which I doubt,) that means that Lithuania was overpaying GazProm.

Well, Lithuania used to had the most expensive gas supply in Europe.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/reuter ... n-gas.html


Erm, that article, well, this is a tad embarrassing, for you, but it, uhhh, backs up my point instead of yours. What exactly were you trying to accomplish? Either way, you failed. Once again, LNG cannot compete against GazProm at FMV, and I challenge to have an actual source that says otherwise. An actual source. With actual numbers. That talk about actual events. That exist in this reality. Thank you in advance!


Dortmundia wrote:
Shofercia wrote:That's a chart showing oil falling from $110 to $60. That's almost a 50% decline. Russia's economy declined by 1.1 percent. When product A falls by 40%, and product B falls by 1%, we know that product B is not dependent on product A. We, (most NSGers,) know that. You might not, Dortmundia.

That is not how economy works. Russian economy will not collapse over night, nor it is imposible anywhere. It is happening through a period of time. Like now, economic decline of Rushka is in the second quartal of 2015 -4,6%. Next quartal it will be even higher and so on. You still did not answer my question. If Russian economy is not dependant on oil how come the recession in Russia started at the same time as the oil started to fall and how come it is not recovering?

You article is still from February. I would suggest you to read this http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/ ... 19412.html


Yeah, I cited a much better article from Forbes that explains why that occurred. I'm not going to recite articles, but just for entertainment purposes, tell me, how does the economy work? How do various interest rates affect the economy? Why's PPP so important? How does the stock market correlate with economic growth? I look forward to your answers since I suspect that the source is the Daily Fail or Radio Free Bullshit. Furthermore, I said that oil affects Russia's economy, but that Russia's economy isn't dependent on oil. The economy fell partially, because the oil prices drastically. But if the economy was dependent on oil, it would've also fallen drastically.


Dortmundia wrote:
Shofercia wrote:It's really not nitpicking. You said that an Orthodox country cannot have a successful economy. I pointed out that's bullshit, and showed you factual evidence. You proceeded to call that nitpicking, and regurgitate the oil bullshit that was discredited a while ago. Then again, you actually think that Ksenia Sobchak might come to power in Russia, why not go straight for John McCain?

Russia has no true economy nor industry, it is all about oil. Once oil is gone it will be back in the 90s. Also, please point me some other Orthodox country with successfull economy besides Russia (let us for the purpose imagine that rusia in fact has an economy)?


Oil comprises less than 10% of Russia's GDP. What do you think makes up the remaining 90%? Santa Claus and Bear Cavalry?


Dortmundia wrote:
Shofercia wrote:Yes, Russians loved father figures so much that we couped the Csar. Oh wait, that makes no sense.

They did not. It was the russian elite who removed the Tsar and replaced him with a new autocrat. The Russians are to government depended so it hard for them to have a democracy and economy.


I see your knowledge of Russian history is unparalleled, in that it doesn't parallel with anything in this reality. The 1905 Revolution was a Popular Revolution, as was that of 1917. Popular doesn't mean elitist. It means the opposite.


Dortmundia wrote:Anyway good news. OPEC kicked il into 30%. That will destroy Putin and for us who must import oil from Russia, it will make us the imports more cheaper.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/opec-just ... 20244.html


Want to bet? Name your price, I'm good with anything.
Last edited by Shofercia on Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dortmundia
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Postby Dortmundia » Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:29 pm

Shofercia wrote:


So even the Daily Mail backs up my point instead of yours. What exactly were you trying to accomplish? Either way, you failed. Once again, LNG cannot compete against GazProm at FMV, and I challenge to have an actual source that says otherwise. An actual source. With actual numbers. That talk about actual events. That exist in this reality. Thank you in advance![/quote]
The daily mail source says clearly why Lithuania left Gazprom depency and turned to LNG. Read it once more, I know you can.


Yeah, I cited a much better article from Forbes that explains why that occurred. I'm not going to recite articles, but just for entertainment purposes, tell me, how does the economy work? How do various interest rates affect the economy? Why's PPP so important? How does the stock market correlate with economic growth? I look forward to your answers since I suspect that the source is the Daily Fail or Radio Free Bullshit. Furthermore, I said that oil affects Russia's economy, but that Russia's economy isn't dependent on oil. The economy fell partially, because the oil prices drastically. But if the economy was dependent on oil, it would've also fallen drastically
.
Again, read once more. I said that Russia will collapse slowly, and that is how economy works. Neither Yeltsins Russia has collapse over nighz. It took few years.

Oil comprises less than 10% of Russia's GDP. What do you think makes up the remaining 90%? Santa Claus and Bear Cavalry?

Source for all that. Even the few industry it has is colerated with Oil or resources.


I see your knowledge of Russian history is unparalleled, in that it doesn't parallel with anything in this reality. The 1905 Revolution was a Popular Revolution, as was that of 1917. Popular doesn't mean elitist. It means the opposite.

I see you do not either. The Bolsheviks did not removed the Tsar. It was the Februar revolution and that was led by the burgeoise. There was two revolutions in 1917 and you do not seem to know it. Also, even Lenin was not democraticall elected so his follower started a insurgency, the Russians were passive in the whole event.

Want to bet? Name your price, I'm good with anything.

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Chossudovsky
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Postby Chossudovsky » Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:18 pm

Shofercia wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
...So saying that the airliner was shot down by an over-eager separatist SAM crew with little training who failed target identification is "Climate Change Denial level of stupidity", but saying that it was shot down by an aircraft not designed for air interception and with a flight ceiling considerably lower than the altitude the airliner was flying at is perfectly sane?


No, I'll state it in simpler terms: saying that BUK was given to Rebels by Russia is, by this point, Climate Change Denial level of stupidity. Saying that it was deliberately shot down by a plane is, by this point, also Climate Change Denial level of stupidity.


Right, let's just ignore all the hard work that the Russian Investigative Committee. Apparently they are just as stupid as climate change deniers, because they actually analyzed the evidence around the crash and found the eyewitnesses, both of which show that the Russian government was right all along. :roll:

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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:26 pm

Chossudovsky wrote:
Shofercia wrote:
No, I'll state it in simpler terms: saying that BUK was given to Rebels by Russia is, by this point, Climate Change Denial level of stupidity. Saying that it was deliberately shot down by a plane is, by this point, also Climate Change Denial level of stupidity.


Right, let's just ignore all the hard work that the Russian Investigative Committee. Apparently they are just as stupid as climate change deniers, because they actually analyzed the evidence around the crash and found the eyewitnesses, both of which show that the Russian government was right all along. :roll:


What's your source?
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The balkens
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Postby The balkens » Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:28 pm

Vassenor wrote:
Chossudovsky wrote:
Right, let's just ignore all the hard work that the Russian Investigative Committee. Apparently they are just as stupid as climate change deniers, because they actually analyzed the evidence around the crash and found the eyewitnesses, both of which show that the Russian government was right all along. :roll:


What's your source?


RT. *nods

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Bratislavskaya
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Postby Bratislavskaya » Thu Aug 13, 2015 3:38 pm

Azov Battalion now has it's own summer camp, where kids do weapons training and such. The only article I could find was on RT, but there was a Ukrainian website with many photos.
Last edited by Bratislavskaya on Thu Aug 13, 2015 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Chossudovsky
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Postby Chossudovsky » Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:35 pm

Bratislavskaya wrote:Azov Battalion now has it's own summer camp, where kids do weapons training and such. The only article I could find was on RT, but there was a Ukrainian website with many photos.


I guess it shouldn't surprise us, fascists have always been big on youth organisations as part of their indoctrination program. The truly disturbing thing is that the people training these kids to kill Russians were trained and armed by the US.

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Byzantium Imperial
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Postby Byzantium Imperial » Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:41 pm

Chossudovsky wrote:
Bratislavskaya wrote:Azov Battalion now has it's own summer camp, where kids do weapons training and such. The only article I could find was on RT, but there was a Ukrainian website with many photos.


I guess it shouldn't surprise us, fascists have always been big on youth organisations as part of their indoctrination program. The truly disturbing thing is that the people training these kids to kill Russians were trained and armed by the US.

Source? One can not go around accusing the US of arming "fascists" (maybe, maybe not, this is RT we are talking about) without a credible source to back him up.
Last edited by Byzantium Imperial on Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Estruia
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Postby Estruia » Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:27 pm

Chossudovsky wrote:
Bratislavskaya wrote:Azov Battalion now has it's own summer camp, where kids do weapons training and such. The only article I could find was on RT, but there was a Ukrainian website with many photos.


I guess it shouldn't surprise us, fascists have always been big on youth organisations as part of their indoctrination program. The truly disturbing thing is that the people training these kids to kill Russians were trained and armed by the US.


You mean like the Kremlin Youth Camps that are oh-so famous in Russia? They claim to be Anti-Fascist, but their behavior is anything but Anti-Fascist.
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Postby Wolfmanne » Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:19 pm

Chossudovsky wrote:
Bratislavskaya wrote:Azov Battalion now has it's own summer camp, where kids do weapons training and such. The only article I could find was on RT, but there was a Ukrainian website with many photos.


I guess it shouldn't surprise us, fascists have always been big on youth organisations as part of their indoctrination program. The truly disturbing thing is that the people training these kids to kill Russians were trained and armed by the US.

Well, that's America for you.
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Dortmundia
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Postby Dortmundia » Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:36 pm

Estruia wrote:
Chossudovsky wrote:
I guess it shouldn't surprise us, fascists have always been big on youth organisations as part of their indoctrination program. The truly disturbing thing is that the people training these kids to kill Russians were trained and armed by the US.


You mean like the Kremlin Youth Camps that are oh-so famous in Russia? They claim to be Anti-Fascist, but their behavior is anything but Anti-Fascist.

I think you are refering to NAŠI. They are an art of Putinjugend that beat up oppositionaries.

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The balkens
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Postby The balkens » Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:44 pm

Dortmundia wrote:
Estruia wrote:
You mean like the Kremlin Youth Camps that are oh-so famous in Russia? They claim to be Anti-Fascist, but their behavior is anything but Anti-Fascist.

I think you are refering to NAŠI. They are an art of Putinjugend that beat up oppositionaries.


What!? NO! HOW DARE YOU SLANDER THE GREAT RUSS-

ah forget about it. Its not even worth satirizing.

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Kar-Esseria
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Postby Kar-Esseria » Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:54 pm

I do not support the Russian invasion of Crimea, I do not support the riots the indirectly caused it, I do not support the violence caused by Ukraine in the Donbass, I do not support the covert Russian/US support of either side, I do not support the shooting down of the Malaysian Airlines aircraft, I do not support the disgusting acts that occurred in Odessa, I do not support the puppet government in Kiev, I do not support the EUs shadow support, I do not support the Putin Administration.

What I do support is the people of Crimea and Donbass, who have by majority made it clear they do not want to be a part of Ukraine. Russia's actions were unjustified, Ukraines weren't any better, both sides are being rather unreasonable, the EU is overstepping it's boundaries, and the US shouldn't even be involved.
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Dortmundia
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Postby Dortmundia » Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:02 pm

The balkens wrote:
Dortmundia wrote:I think you are refering to NAŠI. They are an art of Putinjugend that beat up oppositionaries.


What!? NO! HOW DARE YOU SLANDER THE GREAT RUSS-

ah forget about it. Its not even worth satirizing.

LOL

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Postby Osterrland » Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:04 pm

For all I care, Putin can sodomize a bottle of bleach.

Really, Ukraine deserves it's territorial integrity and democracy. When an invasion followed by a rigged referendum takes place, it frustrates me.
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United Marxist Nations
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Postby United Marxist Nations » Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:24 pm

The balkens wrote:
Dortmundia wrote:I think you are refering to NAŠI. They are an art of Putinjugend that beat up oppositionaries.


What!? NO! HOW DARE YOU SLANDER THE GREAT RUSS-

ah forget about it. Its not even worth satirizing.

You know, it's not really satire if no one here actually thinks it.
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Postby Bojikami » Fri Aug 14, 2015 12:49 am

The balkens wrote:
Dortmundia wrote:I think you are refering to NAŠI. They are an art of Putinjugend that beat up oppositionaries.


What!? NO! HOW DARE YOU SLANDER THE GREAT RUSS-

ah forget about it. Its not even worth satirizing.

Not even really satire friend. Most Russians or those that are supporting the donbass rebels do not actually have this line of thought. Such a statement seems to come from some angst, and also, have you just given up on actually putting up an argument and are instead just jumping in with little sound bits here and there? Because that is all it seems you are doing.
Last edited by Bojikami on Fri Aug 14, 2015 12:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Costa Fierro » Fri Aug 14, 2015 1:31 am

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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Fri Aug 14, 2015 1:36 am


They literally sound like vocal software akin to Stephen Hawking at times, fucking hell that is bad.
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Costa Fierro
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Postby Costa Fierro » Fri Aug 14, 2015 1:41 am

The Huskar Social Union wrote:

They literally sound like vocal software akin to Stephen Hawking at times, fucking hell that is bad.


They can't even get good actors. One minute the guy in the bottom is British, then he is American.
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Wolfmanne
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Postby Wolfmanne » Fri Aug 14, 2015 5:43 am


SVR RF need to watch their vodka consumption, otherwise they come up with stupid (but funny) ideas like this.

EDIT: Literally one of the lines is 'I'm proud to do this mad ting'. Was one of the actors trying to put on a South London accent?
Last edited by Wolfmanne on Fri Aug 14, 2015 5:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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West Aurelia
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Postby West Aurelia » Fri Aug 14, 2015 6:53 am

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