9 Dead in SC Church Shooting - Hate Crime Confirmed.

[El Cuscatlan]

That is not literally calling for a holy war. It is a figure of speech.

Show me where it is. I see full call for a holy war here.

I don't see how that is comparable to the crimes of the nazis. It really isn't, unless you are a Holocaust denier and think the Allies started WWII; and even then you still have to make big stretches.

I do not deny the holocaust. I equally hate Nazis as much as commies.

Besides, take a look: holodomor, Katyń, Berlin 1953, Poznań 1956, Budapest 1956, Killing fields, great leap forward, cultural revolution.

To name just a few of them. Not to mention terrorism committed by various socialists in Europe (terrorist Ulrike Meinhof as major example).

In every revolution terror is used on both sides. This is still not comparable to the extermination of 11 million people in death camps, and over 60 million other war related deaths and extermination campaigns.

Killing over 100 million people is not related to holocaust? FYI Mao killed more people than Hitler ever did. I am not defending Hitler here, since he was genocidal maniac; I am stating fact that Mao killed more people than Stalin and Hitler.

Still not comparable, and the insert of 'races' has been proven to be fraudulent many times. It was not in the original works, and was added by anti-communists later on.

The same way communists changed translations so they suit them. If so, seems we have to get to German if you want it that much...

You want more socialists? Just wait a second, I shall give you few more.

[Utrinque Paratus]

Kinda segregating themselves.

What the holy fuck does this have to do with anything? You act like racial relations in South Carolina are the blacks' fault.

Well, it's the fault of both races but having a black Methodist church shouldn't be allowed.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

Life imprisonment will ensure he has no access to the public and would cost less than the death penalty. And death isn't anything to experience. There is no experience. Death is the end of experience. I doubt lethal injection is a hellish way to go, either.

The death penalty is more expensive than keeping someone in prison for life.

Last I checked, sodium thiopental wasn't delivered in platinum capsules. Care to source these claims?

Life imprisonment is no guarantee, and he's still using up space.

Lethal injection kills by suffocating the person to death. There's still going to be some reception of pain, and it isn't quick like a bullet to the head, either.

What would keeping him alive accomplish? If he's not going to be doing anything other than sitting in a jail cell all day, then he might as well be dead - at least he isn't draining money from the government in the latter.

Here are your sources. Congratulations, you just had a fool made of you.

It would make us humans with empathy and without tendencies for barbarism. He'd be draining shitloads of money from the government with all the appeals that will happen.

[Hyfling]

Life imprisonment will ensure he has no access to the public and would cost less than the death penalty. And death isn't anything to experience. There is no experience. Death is the end of experience. I doubt lethal injection is a hellish way to go, either.

Life imprisonment would make you go insane, it is a horrible experience.

Death is not really bad, it is relief from suffering. Being dead is not a negative experience, it is just nothing.

I agree with this.

Life in prison would be a much worse experience when compared to a relatively quick, painless death.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

What the holy fuck does this have to do with anything? You act like racial relations in South Carolina are the blacks' fault.

Well, it's the fault of both races but having a black Methodist church shouldn't be allowed.

...why the fuck can they not have a denomination with "black" in the name? It isn't like whites aren't allowed. The kid went to the fucking church, where he says everyone was "so nice" to him he almost backed out of the killing.

[Ardoki]

Life imprisonment will ensure he has no access to the public and would cost less than the death penalty. And death isn't anything to experience. There is no experience. Death is the end of experience. I doubt lethal injection is a hellish way to go, either.

The death penalty is more expensive than keeping someone in prison for life.

Last I checked, sodium thiopental wasn't delivered in platinum capsules. Care to source these claims?

Life imprisonment is no guarantee, and he's still using up space.

Lethal injection kills by suffocating the person to death. There's still going to be some reception of pain, and it isn't quick like a bullet to the head, either.

What would keeping him alive accomplish? If he's not going to be doing anything other than sitting in a jail cell all day, then he might as well be dead - at least he isn't draining money from the government in the latter.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2014/05/01/considering-the-death-penalty-your-tax-dollars-at-work/

http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/issues/death-penalty/us-death-penalty-facts/death-penalty-cost

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty

[Camicon]

What the holy fuck does this have to do with anything? You act like racial relations in South Carolina are the blacks' fault.

Well, it's the fault of both races but having a black Methodist church shouldn't be allowed.

It's black and Methodist because it's predominantly attended by black Methodists. Not because everyone else is not allowed in.

[Tsaraine]

I'm not sure why Roof wasn't handcuffed, but the image in that context is powerfully evocative.

Remember the biker gangs who shot up that diner in Texas a few weeks back? There are photos of them, shortly after being arrested, not handcuffed as they waited for the paddy wagon to show up. In fact texting people. Compare and contrast that to the pool party thing where a cop was running about waving his gun at teenagers, pinning a teenage (black) girl to the ground for the apparent crime of not having a pool pass ...

The really surprising thing I just discovered is that South Carolina flies the Confederate Battle Flag outside its state capitol. That's just many different levels of WTFery right there. With such examples, it's not so surprising that Roof - a man who proudly displayed the flags of Rhodesia, Apartheid-era South Africa, and the Confederacy, and burned the American flag - got such vile ideas in his head.

[Ardoki]

That is not literally calling for a holy war. It is a figure of speech.

Show me where it is. I see full call for a holy war here.

I don't see how that is comparable to the crimes of the nazis. It really isn't, unless you are a Holocaust denier and think the Allies started WWII; and even then you still have to make big stretches.

I do not deny the holocaust. I equally hate Nazis as much as commies.

Besides, take a look: holodomor, Katyń, Berlin 1953, Poznań 1956, Budapest 1956, Killing fields, great leap forward, cultural revolution.

To name just a few of them. Not to mention terrorism committed by various socialists in Europe (terrorist Ulrike Meinhof as major example).

In every revolution terror is used on both sides. This is still not comparable to the extermination of 11 million people in death camps, and over 60 million other war related deaths and extermination campaigns.

Killing over 100 million people is not related to holocaust? FYI Mao killed more people than Hitler ever did. I am not defending Hitler here, since he was genocidal maniac; I am stating fact that Mao killed more people than Stalin and Hitler.

Still not comparable, and the insert of 'races' has been proven to be fraudulent many times. It was not in the original works, and was added by anti-communists later on.

The same way communists changed translations so they suit them. If so, seems we have to get to German if you want it that much...

You want more socialists? Just wait a second, I shall give you few more.

You still haven't shown me where, socialism calls for genocide on a scale at least as bad as Nazism.

Anarchism is a school of socialism, so is Social Democracy. So your evidence would have to work for both those schools as well.

[Todeslager]

You never broke a single thing on them. You're just denying how each quotes were meant. You intentionally misinterpreted it for your defense.

NATIONAL SOCIALISM is still SOCIALISM. I mean, the words alone prove it.

The Democratic Peoples Republic of [North] Korea would like to disagree with you.

Pepsi isn't the choice of a new generation either.

I think it would be far more accurate to say socialism has and has had many flavors, strains, and bastardizations, and Nazism was one of them. Nazism drew from many influences, including the race science / eugenics movements of late 19th / early 20th Century American progressivism, while simultaneously bashing Marxist schools of thought.

Category errors are still errors.

[Quirina]

-don't care snip-

HAHAHAHA I know you're reading this.

Anyway, I'd love to see you cornered again in this debacle.

Now, to the main topic, laws must be upheld. Nothing more. If a guy shoots and kills, he's liable to the law. Plain simple.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

-don't care snip-

HAHAHAHA I know you're reading this.

Anyway, I'd love to see you cornered again in this debacle.

Now, to the main topic, laws must be upheld. Nothing more. If a guy shoots and kills, he's liable to the law. Plain simple.

Why don't you respond to someone else you don't have personal issues with?

[Utrinque Paratus]

Well, it's the fault of both races but having a black Methodist church shouldn't be allowed.

...why the fuck can they not have a denomination with "black" in the name? It isn't like whites aren't allowed. The kid went to the fucking church, where he says everyone was "so nice" to him he almost backed out of the killing.

Can we have a white denomination church? Yes or no...simple question.

[Nazi Flower Power]

It would be a rehabilitation facility. Like a cross between a school and a hospital/psychiatric centre.

They would learn to be tolerant.

My idea would be simply being more open to meeting people from different cultures and walks of life...but I guess it's not that
simple, huh?

I like your idea better than Ardoki's.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

...why the fuck can they not have a denomination with "black" in the name? It isn't like whites aren't allowed. The kid went to the fucking church, where he says everyone was "so nice" to him he almost backed out of the killing.

Can we have a white denomination church? Yes or no...simple question.

Yeah, sure. What does that have to do with fucking anything? Simple question.

[Nazi Flower Power]

On a serious note, what does everyone make of the claims coming forth that the shooter is allegedly "mentally ill"?

I think he belongs in prison and don't really care if he is mentally ill.

[Mavorpen]

Can we have a white denomination church? Yes or no...simple question.

Yeah, sure. What does that have to do with fucking anything? Simple question.

I'm half expecting him to start asking why white people can't call black people "nigger."

[El Cuscatlan]

You still haven't shown me where, socialism calls for genocide on a scale at least as bad as Nazism.

Anarchism is a school of socialism, so is Social Democracy. So your evidence would have to work for both those schools as well.

I shown you everything but you refuse to listen or reason. You have right to deny the obvious. But this only means about you.

I also recommend you to see what terrorists from Mikhail Bakunin did in Russia or crimes of republicans in Spain if you want it as that.

Enjoy actions of 19th century socialists.

Paracuellos massacres, a good example.

[Nazi Flower Power]

Perhaps not, but a toothless idiot circle jerking to Triumph des Willens with fellow toothless idiots in a dilapidated trailer park doesn't tend to be able to make persuasive demonstrations of his alleged racial superiority outside said self-annihilating circle.

I have always found it rather amusing that the people who are the most vocal about white superiority are, in and of themselves, the best evidence that their philosophy is wrong.

I have noticed that too.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

You still haven't shown me where, socialism calls for genocide on a scale at least as bad as Nazism.

Anarchism is a school of socialism, so is Social Democracy. So your evidence would have to work for both those schools as well.

I shown you everything but you refuse to listen or reason. You have right to deny the obvious. But this only means about you.

I also recommend you to see what terrorists from Mikhail Bakunin did in Russia or crimes of republicans in Spain if you want it as that.

Enjoy actions of 19th century socialists.

Paracuellos massacres, a good example.

Propaganda of the deed is an anarchist method of damaging the State. I'm not seeing the issue.

And yeah, the Soviets made people do brutal shit. But a max of 4,000 people, mainly soldiers, still doesn't compare to millions upon millions of innocents, including children.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

Yeah, sure. What does that have to do with fucking anything? Simple question.

I'm half expecting him to start asking why white people can't call black people "nigger."

Only half expecting? I'm just waiting.

[Big Jim P]

I'm half expecting him to start asking why white people can't call black people "nigger."

Only half expecting? I'm just waiting.

Bets, anyone?

[Todeslager]

...why the fuck can they not have a denomination with "black" in the name? It isn't like whites aren't allowed. The kid went to the fucking church, where he says everyone was "so nice" to him he almost backed out of the killing.

Can we have a white denomination church? Yes or no...simple question.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/?title=Christian_Identity

(But they aren't Christian)

[Tsaraine]

On a serious note, what does everyone make of the claims coming forth that the shooter is allegedly "mentally ill"?

I think he belongs in prison and don't really care if he is mentally ill.

As someone with a mental illness ...

Mental illness gets trotted out a lot to explain away the actions of murderers, and it's not correct to do so. Mentally ill people are more likely to be the victims of violence than perpetrators of it - they commit crimes and violence at the same rate as the rest of the population. Having a mental illness doesn't make one violent (and it doesn't serve as exculpation if you are).

The reason people are eager to label murderers as mentally ill is because if they're mentally ill, well, obviously they don't think like us. Nobody like us would ever do such a thing, there must be something wrong with someone like that! It's something like the "no true Scotsman" fallacy; no sane person would shoot up a church!

In reality, evil isn't extraordinary, and doesn't require a brain any different from the norm. We've known about the banality of evil since the Nuremburg trials; the fact that ordinary, rational people can commit atrocities shouldn't be news to anyone. Roof - or Breivik, or whoever - aren't mentally ill; they're just wrong, and have followed their wrong thinking to its logical conclusions.

[El Cuscatlan]

Propaganda of the deed is an anarchist method of damaging the State. I'm not seeing the issue.

Call it as you like. I will call it by the name it is.

Terrorism.

What listed there would be fitting every modern definition of terrorism we know.

But, now time to quote some Anarchists! Shall we begin with Proudhon, who supported sought during civil war, hated at least dozen of nationalities, and was notorious anti - semite?

The Jew is the enemy of humankind. They must be sent back to Asia or be exterminated. By steel or by fire or by expulsion the Jew must disappear.

No, it is not Hitler; it is father of Anarchism.

Time for Bakunin, it seems!

This whole Jewish world, comprising a single exploiting sect, a kind of blood sucking people, a kind of organic destructive collective parasite, going beyond not only the frontiers of states, but of political opinion, this world is now, at least for the most part, at the disposal of Marx on the one hand, and of Rothschild on the other... This may seem strange. What can there be in common between socialism and a leading bank? The point is that authoritarian socialism, Marxist communism, demands a strong centralisation of the state. And where there is centralisation of the state, there must necessarily be a central bank, and where such a bank exists, the parasitic Jewish nation, speculating with the Labour of the people, will be found.