9 Dead in SC Church Shooting - Hate Crime Confirmed.

[Camicon]

So, saying that people have a right to reasonably express shitty views immediately makes you jump to "YOU SUPPORT THE HOLOCAUST!", but tacking on the blindingly obvious "racism is bad, and we as a society should work to remove it as much as we can", makes you feel all happy inside.

Fucking brilliant logic.

I never jumped to anything. If you read it, I said that I know you don't support it. I'm saying racism is one of those really bad slippery slopes that can lead to really bad stuff like the Holocaust really fast.

I don't mean anything hostile at all.

I was speaking to Ardoki, hence why I quoted his post and not yours.

[Inyourfaceistan]

But that will not change their views.

Perhaps not, but a toothless idiot circle jerking to Triumph des Willens with fellow toothless idiots in a dilapidated trailer park doesn't tend to be able to make persuasive demonstrations of his alleged racial superiority outside said self-annihilating circle.

^This

[Ardoki]

+1 comrade.

This is a good response.

Did you read his response?

Did you not just send me a telegram stating that cultures which dont adhere to values that you agree with should be replaced?

---

Furthermore I fully believe and fully hope this criminal gets the death penalty...

I did not send you the telegram.

You initiated the telegram exchange, and baited me into saying that so you could post it here.

Very dishonest IYF, very disappointed.

[Camicon]

Did you read his response?

Did you not just send me a telegram stating that cultures which dont adhere to values that you agree with should be replaced?

---

Furthermore I fully believe and fully hope this criminal gets the death penalty...

I did not send you the telegram.

You initiated the telegram exchange, and baited me into saying that so you could post it here.

Very dishonest IYF, very disappointed.

Yes, I am sure you were "baited" into saying something stupid and judgmental. That clearly is not something you would ever do of your own accord.

[Ardoki]

Racism was responsible for the holocaust.

Therefore racism must not be allowed to exist, lest another racist crime against humanity could occur.

Freedom of speech should stop at hateful speech. Hate never brings anything good; only death, destruction, misery and hurt.

Socialism was responsible for 100 million deaths, roughly 16x more than holocaust. Not like I am defending Hitler, but I am pretty sure you are a socialist.

According to your logic (I am NOT threatening now) you should also go under barrel. So enjoy the benefits of free society that allows you to speak stuff like that, and do not replace it for oppressive one.

Nazism, the ideology called for the extermination and enslavement of all non-"Aryans".

Please show me where socialism called for such a thing? Because otherwise you cannot compare the ideologies.

[Luminesa]

Racism was a contributing factor towards how the people who perpetrated the Holocaust justified their actions. And it's present in the justification for a great many terrible things. Racism is bad, yeah.

That doesn't give you the right to preemptively incarcerate people who have racist views. Children with racist parents often develop racist views, simply because they don't know any better. But saying and believing something should not be crimes. Acting criminally on those beliefs, advocating that others do the same, should be a crime and is a crime in many developed nations. That doesn't mean we need Thought Police going around and throwing people into jail for things that they might do.

It would be a rehabilitation facility. Like a cross between a school and a hospital/psychiatric centre.

They would learn to be tolerant.

My idea would be simply being more open to meeting people from different cultures and walks of life...but I guess it's not that
simple, huh?

[Ardoki]

I did not send you the telegram.

You initiated the telegram exchange, and baited me into saying that so you could post it here.

Very dishonest IYF, very disappointed.

Yes, I am sure you were "baited" into saying something stupid and judgmental. That clearly is not something you would ever do of your own accord.

I'll show you the telegram exchange.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

Furthermore I fully believe and fully hope this criminal gets the death penalty...

Why stoop to his level?

Why give him the sweet release of death?

Why make him a martyr for white power fuckers?

[Ardoki]

[Inyourfaceistan]

Did you read his response?

Did you not just send me a telegram stating that cultures which dont adhere to values that you agree with should be replaced?

---

Furthermore I fully believe and fully hope this criminal gets the death penalty...

I did not send you the telegram.

You initiated the telegram exchange, and baited me into saying that so you could post it here.

Very dishonest IYF, very disappointed.

No, I asked you a question to clarify when hating cultures that aren't "progressive" becomes racist.
You told me any body can be progressive regardless of skin color, but non-progressice cultures need to be replaced.
Then you went and pretended to agree with someone saying we should be tolerant of other cultures.
Yet I am dishonest...

---

On a serious note, what does everyone make of the claims coming forth that the shooter is allegedly "mentally ill"?

[Ardoki]

I did not send you the telegram.

You initiated the telegram exchange, and baited me into saying that so you could post it here.

Very dishonest IYF, very disappointed.

No, I asked you a question to clarify when hating cultures that aren't "progressive" becomes racist.
You told me any body can be progressive regardless of skin color, but non-progressice cultures need to be replaced.
Then you went and pretended to agree with someone saying we should be tolerant of other cultures.
Yet I am dishonest...

---

On a serious note, what does everyone make of the claims coming forth that the shooter is allegedly "mentally ill"?

He was racist. Racism like many other views, I consider a mental illness.

[El Cuscatlan]

Nazism, the ideology called for the extermination and enslavement of all non-"Aryans".

Please show me where socialism called for such a thing? Because otherwise you cannot compare the ideologies.

Oh, I can.

"This is our calling, that we shall become the templars of this Grail, gird the sword round our loins for its sake and stake our lives joyfully in the last, holy war which will be followed by the thousand-year reign of freedom."
- Friedrich Engels, "Schelling and Revelation: Conclusion", 1841

"...the very cannibalism of the counterrevolution will convince the nations that there is only one way in which the murderous death agonies of the old society and the bloody birth throes of the new society can be shortened, simplified and concentrated, and that way is revolutionary terrorism."
- Karl Marx, "The Victory of the Counter-Revolution in Vienna," Neue Rheinische Zeitung, 7 November 1848.

"We have no compassion and we ask no compassion from you. When our turn comes, we shall not make excuses for the terror."
- Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels "Suppression of the Neue Rheinische Zeitung", Neue Rheinische Zeitung, May 19, 1849

"Society is undergoing a silent revolution, which must be submitted to, and which takes no more notice of the human existences it breaks down than an earthquake regards the houses it subverts. The classes and the races, too weak to master the new conditions of life, must give way."
- Karl Marx, "Forced Emigration", New York Tribune 1853:

This is Marx only, I will not be quoting here Lenin, Stalin, Mao &CO, but if you want, I will.

[Quirina]

Ardoki, what do you stand for?

[Inyourfaceistan]

Furthermore I fully believe and fully hope this criminal gets the death penalty...

Why stoop to his level?

Why give him the sweet release of death?

Why make him a martyr for white power fuckers?

Make him an example.
Make it known that South Carolina as a state does not tolerate this sort of action, and no mercy will be given to those who commit such heinous atrocities.
Show that they do not take this sort of thing lightly...

[Camicon]

Yes, I am sure you were "baited" into saying something stupid and judgmental. That clearly is not something you would ever do of your own accord.

I'll show you the telegram exchange.

You seemed to have missed my point, where I sarcastically alluded to the fact that you assumed and implied that I supported the Holocaust, because I believe people have a right to express shitty views (within reason). It was a stupid and judgmental thing to do; extremely so. Thus, I would not be at all surprised if you said something else that was extremely stupid and judgmental.

And no, your screenshot of the telegram exchange does not show faceistan bating you into saying something stupid and judgmental. You did that all by yourself.

[Luminesa]

I did not send you the telegram.

You initiated the telegram exchange, and baited me into saying that so you could post it here.

Very dishonest IYF, very disappointed.

No, I asked you a question to clarify when hating cultures that aren't "progressive" becomes racist.
You told me any body can be progressive regardless of skin color, but non-progressice cultures need to be replaced.
Then you went and pretended to agree with someone saying we should be tolerant of other cultures.
Yet I am dishonest...

---

On a serious note, what does everyone make of the claims coming forth that the shooter is allegedly "mentally ill"?

Criminals use that defense all the time, to try and get out of a life sentence. That being said, I simply think this dude is just
an incredibly racist idiot. I mean, come on, didn't he have a sweater with a patch of South Africa's flag during segregation, or something?

The families of the victims are saints for forgiving him. Truly tragic, that such good people had to have this happen to them.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

Why stoop to his level?

Why give him the sweet release of death?

Why make him a martyr for white power fuckers?

Make him an example.
Make it known that South Carolina as a state does not tolerate this sort of action, and no mercy will be given to those who commit such heinous atrocities.
Show that they do not take this sort of thing lightly...

So, stoop to his level, let him rest in peace, and make him a martyr. Fantastic.

[Big Jim P]

But that will not change their views.

Perhaps not, but a toothless idiot circle jerking to Triumph des Willens with fellow toothless idiots in a dilapidated trailer park doesn't tend to be able to make persuasive demonstrations of his alleged racial superiority outside said self-annihilating circle.

I have always found it rather amusing that the people who are the most vocal about white superiority are, in and of themselves, the best evidence that their philosophy is wrong.

[Inyourfaceistan]

No, I asked you a question to clarify when hating cultures that aren't "progressive" becomes racist.
You told me any body can be progressive regardless of skin color, but non-progressice cultures need to be replaced.
Then you went and pretended to agree with someone saying we should be tolerant of other cultures.
Yet I am dishonest...

---

On a serious note, what does everyone make of the claims coming forth that the shooter is allegedly "mentally ill"?

Criminals use that defense all the time, to try and get out of a life sentence. That being said, I simply think this dude is just
an incredibly racist idiot. I mean, come on, didn't he have a sweater with a patch of South Africa's flag during segregation, or something?

Yeah that's what I was thinking. I live right across the river in Georgia and I know there are a lot of voices making pre-emptive calls that this guy should get death.
But I keep hearing people saying he was apparently mentally ill, so I didn't know if that was serious, or just his defense trying to lessen a sentence after this thing goes to trial.

The families of the victims are saints for forgiving him. Truly tragic, that such good people had to have this happen to them.

I know right. That takes amazing strength.
Bless them all.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

I have always found it rather amusing that the people who are the most vocal about white superiority are, in and of themselves, the best evidence that their philosophy is wrong.

AQed.

[El Cuscatlan]

So, stoop to his level, let him rest in peace, and make him a martyr. Fantastic.

Nobody will see a convicted criminal to be a martyr. At least, not majority.

I have to remind you that "White Power f**kers" are small minority in any country of the world.

[Ardoki]

Nazism, the ideology called for the extermination and enslavement of all non-"Aryans".

Please show me where socialism called for such a thing? Because otherwise you cannot compare the ideologies.

Oh, I can.

"This is our calling, that we shall become the templars of this Grail, gird the sword round our loins for its sake and stake our lives joyfully in the last, holy war which will be followed by the thousand-year reign of freedom."
- Friedrich Engels, "Schelling and Revelation: Conclusion", 1841

"...the very cannibalism of the counterrevolution will convince the nations that there is only one way in which the murderous death agonies of the old society and the bloody birth throes of the new society can be shortened, simplified and concentrated, and that way is revolutionary terrorism."
- Karl Marx, "The Victory of the Counter-Revolution in Vienna," Neue Rheinische Zeitung, 7 November 1848.

"We have no compassion and we ask no compassion from you. When our turn comes, we shall not make excuses for the terror."
- Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels "Suppression of the Neue Rheinische Zeitung", Neue Rheinische Zeitung, May 19, 1849

"Society is undergoing a silent revolution, which must be submitted to, and which takes no more notice of the human existences it breaks down than an earthquake regards the houses it subverts. The classes and the races, too weak to master the new conditions of life, must give way."
- Karl Marx, "Forced Emigration", New York Tribune 1853:

This is Marx only, I will not be quoting here Lenin, Stalin, Mao &CO, but if you want, I will.

Let us break those down for you.

---

"This is our calling, that we shall become the templars of this Grail, gird the sword round our loins for its sake and stake our lives joyfully in the last, holy war which will be followed by the thousand-year reign of freedom."
- Friedrich Engels, "Schelling and Revelation: Conclusion", 1841
That is not literally calling for a holy war. It is a figure of speech.

"...the very cannibalism of the counterrevolution will convince the nations that there is only one way in which the murderous death agonies of the old society and the bloody birth throes of the new society can be shortened, simplified and concentrated, and that way is revolutionary terrorism."
- Karl Marx, "The Victory of the Counter-Revolution in Vienna," Neue Rheinische Zeitung, 7 November 1848.
I don't see how that is comparable to the crimes of the nazis. It really isn't, unless you are a Holocaust denier and think the Allies started WWII; and even then you still have to make big stretches.

"We have no compassion and we ask no compassion from you. When our turn comes, we shall not make excuses for the terror."
- Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels "Suppression of the Neue Rheinische Zeitung", Neue Rheinische Zeitung, May 19, 1849
In every revolution terror is used on both sides. This is still not comparable to the extermination of 11 million people in death camps, and over 60 million other war related deaths and extermination campaigns.

"Society is undergoing a silent revolution, which must be submitted to, and which takes no more notice of the human existences it breaks down than an earthquake regards the houses it subverts. The classes and the races, too weak to master the new conditions of life, must give way."
- Karl Marx, "Forced Emigration", New York Tribune 1853:
Still not comparable, and the insert of 'races' has been proven to be fraudulent many times. It was not in the original works, and was added by anti-communists later on.

Marx and Engels are not the only Socialists, they are but only a small part of the socialist movement.
So you have to show that the socialist movement is comparable to nazism, which you haven't.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

So, stoop to his level, let him rest in peace, and make him a martyr. Fantastic.

Nobody will see a convicted criminal to be a martyr. At least, not majority.

I have to remind you that "White Power f**kers" are small minority in any country of the world.

What does that have to do with anything? He'll still give them fuel and vitriol. It still brings us down to his immoral level. It still doesn't punish him in the slightest.

[Riysa]

Make him an example.
Make it known that South Carolina as a state does not tolerate this sort of action, and no mercy will be given to those who commit such heinous atrocities.
Show that they do not take this sort of thing lightly...

So, stoop to his level, let him rest in peace, and make him a martyr. Fantastic.

Making him a "martyr" won't really elevate him because he's already done the act. Killing him means that we won't have to waste money on another guy in our prison system, it will provide closure knowing that he's no longer out there, and no matter what way you deliver it, death is not something fun to experience.

[Ardoki]

So, stoop to his level, let him rest in peace, and make him a martyr. Fantastic.

Making him a "martyr" won't really elevate him because he's already done the act. Killing him means that we won't have to waste money on another guy in our prison system, it will provide closure knowing that he's no longer out there, and no matter what way you deliver it, death is not something fun to experience.

The death penalty is more expensive than keeping someone in prison for life.

Life imprisonment would be more torturous than just death.

EDIT: FIXED TYPOS