Success of Obamacare, and Debunking Myths

[Llamalandia]

That lettng people die in the gutters isn't necessarily immoral hence government has no right to deprive people of money by an act of commission (ie taxation) in order to prevent said deaths.

thank goodness that few people believe that. no one wants a sucky country that lets the poor die.

Why do you just automatically assume that would happen? Even that morally reprehensible woman octo mom got assistance from her local church . Between people doing jobs (Americans won't do) and private charity helping the truly helpless I doubt "millions will die in the streets".

[Todeslager]

Abu Graib, Eagle checkpoints, collateral damage and Nouri Al-Maliki?

Why don't we focus on the spectacular mess of freedom and democracy we've made in our homeland republic with the Affordable Care Act instead?

The Affordable Care Act is freedom and democracy at work. If you don't like it, use your freedom and democracy to change it.

I'm waiting patiently for King v. Burwell to take care of those violations of U.S. Constitution Article IV, the 10th Amendment, and the 14th Amendment, and then for the House of Representatives to reassert their Article I, Sec. 2 powers to defund what's left of the ACA after that, followed by perhaps impeachment proceedings against any Senator that ever proposes another taxation bill.

As a result of my last exercise of freedom and democracy, of course.

[Llamalandia]

Umm sure they fund other shit I just think that they those other things except maybe law enforcement is better left to the private sector. Plus given how police have been behaving lately privatizing them might not be a bad idea. The govt might not mind the overkill and expenditure associated with militant policing but a CEO would never permit this kind a
Of waste (well at least if he wants to keep his job)

Privatizing police would only take our current problems and make them much worse.

Why ? Flash bangs and overtime aren't cheap you know neither is ammo and unnecessary swat team gear. Companies may not care bout people but they do care about profits after all.

[Ashmoria]

You're right. Libertarians just believe in a government small enough to fit inside a woman's uterus.

So far as I can tell, libertarians in general fall within the "pro-choice on abortion" crowd. Libertarians are conservative on economic issues but are liberal on social ones and for that reason regular conservatives disagree sharply with libertarians on various matters such as drug legalization. A conservative might use religion/tradition to enforce a certain morality but a libertarian simply won't care about banning certain things pertaining to personal choice.

libertarians SHOULD all be pro-choice but it seems that plenty of them can find a reason why women cant be allowed free choice in their own medical decisions.

[Esternial]

I suppose those are like two out of eight things you actually know from which the government provides funding for?

Umm sure they fund other shit I just think that they those other things except maybe law enforcement is better left to the private sector. Plus given how police have been behaving lately privatizing them might not be a bad idea. The govt might not mind the overkill and expenditure associated with militant policing but a CEO would never permit this kind a
Of waste (well at least if he wants to keep his job)

So you don't know what they fund but still think the things (or "shit") that you don't even know off are better left to the private sector?

Additionally, you claim a CEO would never permit this kind of waste, but maybe you should also bear in mind the downsides of entrusting something to the private sector?

Like, how free would roads be to drive on if their maintenance be left to the private sector? You might be required to pay a fee.

Taking away power from the government and giving it to private organisations may very well mean that certain things that are currently free for all will require fees or something else, which essentially means you're taking away freedoms. Pay for your freedom.

Think about the possible repercussions of what you suggest, for fuck's sake. Really.

[Todeslager]

thank goodness that few people believe that. no one wants a sucky country that lets the poor die.

Why do you just automatically assume that would happen? Even that morally reprehensible woman octo mom got assistance from her local church . Between people doing jobs (Americans won't do) and private charity helping the truly helpless I doubt "millions will die in the streets".

You don't get it. Socialism wouldn't work if those Bible-thumping no good money hoarders weren't stopped from directly acting in their communities to help the needy and replaced with a cold bureaucracy miles away that regards everyone as equally loved parasites and symbiotes.

/sarcasm

[Ashmoria]

what difference does that make? the supreme court says its a tax. that is more than enough.

The Supreme Court can call a banana a hammer it doesn't make it true. I'm saying and have been saying the court is wrong.

that is a useless exercise. your opinion is irrelevant. (so is mine)

[Llamalandia]

The Supreme Court can call a banana a hammer it doesn't make it true. I'm saying and have been saying the court is wrong.

that is a useless exercise. your opinion is irrelevant. (so is mine)

No it isn't we can always start a revolution if the govt is behaving tyrannically . But more importantly the court can and has been wrong in the past, there is nothing to say they aren't wrong now.

[The Black Forrest]

Why do you just automatically assume that would happen? Even that morally reprehensible woman octo mom got assistance from her local church . Between people doing jobs (Americans won't do) and private charity helping the truly helpless I doubt "millions will die in the streets".

You don't get it. Socialism wouldn't work if those Bible-thumping no good money hoarders weren't stopped from directly acting in their communities to help the needy and replaced with a cold bureaucracy miles away that regards everyone as equally loved parasites and symbiotes.

/sarcasm

Your material and delivery needs work.

[Todeslager]

So far as I can tell, libertarians in general fall within the "pro-choice on abortion" crowd. Libertarians are conservative on economic issues but are liberal on social ones and for that reason regular conservatives disagree sharply with libertarians on various matters such as drug legalization. A conservative might use religion/tradition to enforce a certain morality but a libertarian simply won't care about banning certain things pertaining to personal choice.

libertarians SHOULD all be pro-choice but it seems that plenty of them can find a reason why women cant be allowed free choice in their own medical decisions.

Oh for fuck's sake. Women can abort their pregnancies monthly until cervical cancer kills them as long as their doctor is in-network.

[Ashmoria]

thank goodness that few people believe that. no one wants a sucky country that lets the poor die.

Why do you just automatically assume that would happen? Even that morally reprehensible woman octo mom got assistance from her local church . Between people doing jobs (Americans won't do) and private charity helping the truly helpless I doubt "millions will die in the streets".

because that is what happened before the government got into the health care biz. it still happens today, of course, but it is greatly lessened by mandatory emergency treatment, medicare, Medicaid and obamacare.

[Llamalandia]

Umm sure they fund other shit I just think that they those other things except maybe law enforcement is better left to the private sector. Plus given how police have been behaving lately privatizing them might not be a bad idea. The govt might not mind the overkill and expenditure associated with militant policing but a CEO would never permit this kind a
Of waste (well at least if he wants to keep his job)

So you don't know what they fund but still think the things (or "shit") that you don't even know off are better left to the private sector?

Additionally, you claim a CEO would never permit this kind of waste, but maybe you should also bear in mind the downsides of entrusting something to the private sector?

Like, how free would roads be to drive on if their maintenance be left to the private sector? You might be required to pay a fee.

Taking away power from the government and giving it to private organisations may very well mean that certain things that are currently free for all will require fees or something else, which essentially means you're taking away freedoms. Pay for your freedom.

Think about the possible repercussions of what you suggest, for fuck's sake. Really.

You have pelosi logic all figured out. Better not to what the govt is doing its all good.

No I know the govt does do other stuff, I just think the private sector could do that stuff better and I'm not about to make a laundry list of every specific thing this out of control fed govt does to waste tax money.

[Llamalandia]

Why do you just automatically assume that would happen? Even that morally reprehensible woman octo mom got assistance from her local church . Between people doing jobs (Americans won't do) and private charity helping the truly helpless I doubt "millions will die in the streets".

because that is what happened before the government got into the health care biz. it still happens today, of course, but it is greatly lessened by mandatory emergency treatment, medicare, Medicaid and obamacare.

Umm how about no? I mean can you source that millions died in the streets prior to govt involvement in healthcare that wasn't attributable to some other cause like insufficient knowledge of disease or something?

[Ashmoria]

that is a useless exercise. your opinion is irrelevant. (so is mine)

No it isn't we can always start a revolution if the govt is behaving tyrannically . But more importantly the court can and has been wrong in the past, there is nothing to say they aren't wrong now.

ow ow ow! that made me roll my eyes so hard that it hurt!

[Ashmoria]

libertarians SHOULD all be pro-choice but it seems that plenty of them can find a reason why women cant be allowed free choice in their own medical decisions.

Oh for fuck's sake. Women can abort their pregnancies monthly until cervical cancer kills them as long as their doctor is in-network.

is that a libertarian thing?

[Ashmoria]

because that is what happened before the government got into the health care biz. it still happens today, of course, but it is greatly lessened by mandatory emergency treatment, medicare, Medicaid and obamacare.

Umm how about no? I mean can you source that millions died in the streets prior to govt involvement in healthcare that wasn't attributable to some other cause like insufficient knowledge of disease or something?

no they didn't die in the streets, they died at home.

[Todeslager]

because that is what happened before the government got into the health care biz. it still happens today, of course, but it is greatly lessened by mandatory emergency treatment, medicare, Medicaid and obamacare.

Umm how about no? I mean can you source that millions died in the streets prior to govt involvement in healthcare that wasn't attributable to some other cause like insufficient knowledge of disease or something?

Challenging leftist hyperbole? Might as well be demanding they just shut up. If it were possible for the Left to emit a rational argument, don't you believe they would have sometime in the last 222 years? It's always been some variant of the of' guillotine for your own good riff.

[Todeslager]

Oh for fuck's sake. Women can abort their pregnancies monthly until cervical cancer kills them as long as their doctor is in-network.

is that a libertarian thing?

Libertarian satire and an attempt to put the thread back on its rails.

Turns out if you like your abortion doctor, you might not be able to keep your abortion doctor, if said abortion doctor doesn't accept your insurance plan.

[Llamalandia]

Umm how about no? I mean can you source that millions died in the streets prior to govt involvement in healthcare that wasn't attributable to some other cause like insufficient knowledge of disease or something?

no they didn't die in the streets, they died at home.

Do you have a source that millions died at home because govt wasn't involved in the healthcare industry and that such deaths aren't attributable to other causes? Or are you going to claim they didn't die in the streets or at home but ... Idk in a hotel next?

[Geilinor]

no they didn't die in the streets, they died at home.

Do you have a source that millions died at home because govt wasn't involved in the healthcare industry and that such deaths aren't attributable to other causes? Or are you going to claim they didn't die in the streets or at home but ... Idk in a hotel next?

Hundreds of thousands of people died of smallpox before the government helped people get vaccinated.

[Llamalandia]

No it isn't we can always start a revolution if the govt is behaving tyrannically . But more importantly the court can and has been wrong in the past, there is nothing to say they aren't wrong now.

ow ow ow! that made me roll my eyes so hard that it hurt!

Why ? And sorry didn't mean to make u roll anything.

[Todeslager]

Umm how about no? I mean can you source that millions died in the streets prior to govt involvement in healthcare that wasn't attributable to some other cause like insufficient knowledge of disease or something?

no they didn't die in the streets, they died at home.

I wish leftists would decide if they want a cure for death or artificial population control.

[Geilinor]

no they didn't die in the streets, they died at home.

I wish leftists would decide if they want a cure for death or artificial population control.

I'm not leftist, but I want people to have modern medicine.

[Esternial]

You have pelosi logic all figured out. Better not to what the govt is doing its all good.

No I know the govt does do other stuff, I just think the private sector could do that stuff better and I'm not about to make a laundry list of every specific thing this out of control fed govt does to waste tax money.

I never said it's all good, but what you're suggesting sounds absolutely shitty in comparison, one big reason of that being because you phrased it in the least concrete way possible.

It boils down to: "Uhh, the private sector could do that shit." Wow. Inspiring heaps of faith in your views of our postmodern Utopia.

Only thing I'm saying is that I acknowledge that some parts of the government could do better. Haven't the foggiest what to do about it, since I know jack shit about running a country and this little nation simulation game doesn't make me an expert on things like public infrastructure and whatnot.

I also know shit about economy, but I read and watch enough news to know that companies aren't always fresh and sound.

From your phrasing and lack of details I get the impression you're as oblivious to the specifics as I am. So maybe you're wrong. Just keep that in mind when you're telling other people what the government should do.

[Ashmoria]

no they didn't die in the streets, they died at home.

Do you have a source that millions died at home because govt wasn't involved in the healthcare industry and that such deaths aren't attributable to other causes? Or are you going to claim they didn't die in the streets or at home but ... Idk in a hotel next?

oh honestly I am not going to bother looking up statistics for someone who will deny their legitimacy. your refusal to deal with the facts presented already in this thread shows that it isn't worth my time.