Success of Obamacare, and Debunking Myths

[Llamalandia]

You are conflating classical liberalism with modern progressive liberals. Big difference, unless you are t American in which case this conversation gets more complicated. Basically modern libertarians in the USA are the closest analogue to old school classical liberals.
I don't really want to go into definitions of neoliberalism especially as it is applied to global economic theory.

I don't consider America's definition of "liberalism" (which is some kind of odd authoritarian centre-rightism) valid. I'm talking about liberalism as defined by those who founded it. Economic, political, personal, and social liberalism as a combined ideology. Free trade is part of that. It has been since Adam Smith. Keynes solidified its position in the modern era.

Well America still rules the world so until china takes over the American defn is the one I'm going to stick with.

[Geilinor]

You are conflating classical liberalism with modern progressive liberals. Big difference, unless you are t American in which case this conversation gets more complicated. Basically modern libertarians in the USA are the closest analogue to old school classical liberals.
I don't really want to go into definitions of neoliberalism especially as it is applied to global economic theory.

I don't consider America's definition of "liberalism" (which is some kind of odd authoritarian centre-rightism) valid. I'm talking about liberalism as defined by those who founded it. Economic, political, personal, and social liberalism as a combined ideology. Free trade is part of that. It has been since Adam Smith. Keynes solidified its position in the modern era.

American liberals do/did support free trade. See: Woodrow Wilson, Bill Clinton, Barack Obama

[Steamtopia]

I don't consider America's definition of "liberalism" (which is some kind of odd authoritarian centre-rightism) valid. I'm talking about liberalism as defined by those who founded it. Economic, political, personal, and social liberalism as a combined ideology. Free trade is part of that. It has been since Adam Smith. Keynes solidified its position in the modern era.

Well America still rules the world so until china takes over the American defn is the one I'm going to stick with.

American 'logic' at work.

[Galloism]

Wrong.



http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Bus ... ble-Income



The fact that you refuse to read that the shared responsibility payment meets all the statutory provisions of an income tax, and congress is empowered to levy income tax by the 16th amendment, does not invalidate the truth of what gives them that power: the 16th amendment.

Meh screw it 16 th amendment wasnt properly ratified therefor it too is unconstitutional .
Lol JK not going down the insane tax resistor rabbit hole. But ok let's say obamacare is a legit tax despite basically everyone who authored it and supporting it saying it wasn't/isn't ok ignore congressional intent. But then you can't legitimately claim that anyone who voted for it isn't a truly abysmal hypocritical lying piece of shit of the highest order. Even for politician level of ethics what they did was pretty damn brazen.

Or ignorant. You seem to be under this bizarre impression that the people who pass the laws always fully understand what they did.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

[Steamtopia]

I don't consider America's definition of "liberalism" (which is some kind of odd authoritarian centre-rightism) valid. I'm talking about liberalism as defined by those who founded it. Economic, political, personal, and social liberalism as a combined ideology. Free trade is part of that. It has been since Adam Smith. Keynes solidified its position in the modern era.

American liberals are/were Keynesians and do/did support free trade. See: Bill Clinton, Barack Obama

Keynesians, no. Free trade, yes.

[Geilinor]

American liberals are/were Keynesians and do/did support free trade. See: Bill Clinton, Barack Obama

Keynesians, no. Free trade, yes.

How are they not? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_liberalism_in_the_United_States

Keynesian economic theory has played a central role in the economic philosophy of modern American liberals.[8] The argument has been that national prosperity requires government management of the macroeconomy, to keep unemployment low, inflation in check, and growth high.[8]

[Steamtopia]

Keynesians, no. Free trade, yes.

How are they not?

They've both supported numerous supply-side policies. They're part of what most of the world's leadership is: Neoclassical synthesis.

[Geilinor]

How are they not?

They've both supported numerous supply-side policies. They're part of what most of the world's leadership is: Neoclassical synthesis.

By Keynesian, I meant that most American liberals are. Support for fiscal stimulus being an example.

[Steamtopia]

They've both supported numerous supply-side policies. They're part of what most of the world's leadership is: Neoclassical synthesis.

By Keynesian, I meant that most American liberals are.

I don't think "most" people of any variety have enough economic education to adhere to one school of thought. But if you had a poll showing otherwise, I'd be really interested. And impressed.

[Geilinor]

Keynesians, no. Free trade, yes.

How are they not? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_liberalism_in_the_United_States

Keynesian economic theory has played a central role in the economic philosophy of modern American liberals.[8] The argument has been that national prosperity requires government management of the macroeconomy, to keep unemployment low, inflation in check, and growth high.[8]

My general point is the underlined.

[Steamtopia]

How are they not? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_liberalism_in_the_United_States

My general point is the underlined.

Wikipedia is not a great source.

[Rednekylvania]

Now all you gotta do is explain what justifies congressional authority that can compel income activity to be taxed. Though personally I'd find it hilarious if they used this logic to compel the unemployed to get a job, as unlikely as that might be.

[Dyakovo]

The founding fathers had no issue with how the legal system worked, so yes it does.

Umm actually they did have an issue with how it worked very much so._{[citation needed]} How it was unfavorably skewed toward native britains and excluded British troops from local colonial prosecutions (at least in some instances).

Your example has nothing at all to do with the workings of a common law system.

[Cote d Argent]

Only by pedigree. Nothing American about his agenda.

What would an American agenda be?

Free enterprise personal responsibility guns and Jesus

[Steamtopia]

What would an American agenda be?

Free enterprise personal responsibility guns and Jesus

And most importantly, no grammar.

[Galloism]

Now all you gotta do is explain what justifies congressional authority that can compel income activity to be taxed. Though personally I'd find it hilarious if they used this logic to compel the unemployed to get a job, as unlikely as that might be.

I have no idea what the hell you're asking me.

[Steamtopia]

Now all you gotta do is explain what justifies congressional authority that can compel income activity to be taxed. Though personally I'd find it hilarious if they used this logic to compel the unemployed to get a job, as unlikely as that might be.

I have no idea what the hell you're asking me.

If I had to guess, it'd be this.

explain what justifies congressional authority that can compel income activity to be taxed

[Galloism]

I have no idea what the hell you're asking me.

If I had to guess, it'd be this.

explain what justifies congressional authority that can compel income activity to be taxed

I don't know what he means by "compel" in this context. If he's asking how can we tax income: the 16th amendment.

If he's asking how can we treat constructively received income as income for tax purposes, that's due to common law principles regarding timing and receipt of income.

[Cote d Argent]

Free enterprise personal responsibility guns and Jesus

And most importantly, no grammar.

Sentences are best left up to the free market. Dont want faceless bureaucrats or ivory tower liberals telling free men how to type on the intertubes

[Steamtopia]

And most importantly, no grammar.

Sentences are best left up to the free market. Dont want faceless bureaucrats or ivory tower liberals telling free men how to type on the intertubes

I prefer a national language service.

[Llamalandia]

Meh screw it 16 th amendment wasnt properly ratified therefor it too is unconstitutional .
Lol JK not going down the insane tax resistor rabbit hole. But ok let's say obamacare is a legit tax despite basically everyone who authored it and supporting it saying it wasn't/isn't ok ignore congressional intent. But then you can't legitimately claim that anyone who voted for it isn't a truly abysmal hypocritical lying piece of shit of the highest order. Even for politician level of ethics what they did was pretty damn brazen.

Or ignorant. You seem to be under this bizarre impression that the people who pass the laws always fully understand what they did.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

I think it not unwise then that we demand every law maker take a written test over all pending legislation before they are allowed to vote on it.

[Llamalandia]

Umm actually they did have an issue with how it worked very much so._{[citation needed]} How it was unfavorably skewed toward native britains and excluded British troops from local colonial prosecutions (at least in some instances).

Your example has nothing at all to do with the workings of a common law system.

Theoretically no, in terms of practice andgiven its unlikely the average 18 th century colonist didn't make a distinction between theory and practice I would say it is very relevant.

[Cote d Argent]

Sentences are best left up to the free market. Dont want faceless bureaucrats or ivory tower liberals telling free men how to type on the intertubes

I prefer a national language service.

Sounds like it would kill jobs and subsidize abortion

[Galloism]

Or ignorant. You seem to be under this bizarre impression that the people who pass the laws always fully understand what they did.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

I think it not unwise then that we demand every law maker take a written test over all pending legislation before they are allowed to vote on it.

And you thought congress was slow before.

[Steamtopia]

I prefer a national language service.

Sounds like it would kill jobs and subsidize abortion

Posts with no grammar are aborted, yes.