[US Election 2016] Democratic Primary Megathread

[Prussia-Steinbach]

So, if I'm a Catholic business owner and if a protestant wants me to cater his/her religious event, I should be able to refuse because in I believe Protestantism is a heresy, and refuse to participate because that would be an endorsement of such heresy.

Same bloody logic.

Yes, you should.

Nope. Public service means public fucking service.

[Marylandonia]

Here are today's polls:
Wednesday, July 1
2016 Republican Presidential Nomination CNN/ORC Bush 19, Walker 6, Rubio 6, Carson 7, Huckabee 8, Paul 7, Trump 12, Cruz 3, Christie 3, Perry 4, Santorum 3, Fiorina 1, Kasich 2, Jindal 2, Graham 1 Bush +7

2016 Democratic Presidential Nomination CNN/Opinion Research Clinton 58, Biden 17, Sanders 15, Webb 1, O'Malley 1, Chafee Clinton +41

Iowa Republican Presidential Caucus Quinnipiac Walker 18, Carson 10, Bush 8, Paul 9, Rubio 7, Huckabee 5, Trump 10, Cruz 9, Santorum 4, Christie 1, Perry 4, Fiorina 3, Kasich 2, Jindal 3 Walker +8

General Election: Bush vs. Clinton CNN/Opinion Research Clinton 54, Bush 41 Clinton +13
General Election: Walker vs. Clinton CNN/Opinion Research Clinton 57, Walker 40 Clinton +17
General Election: Rubio vs. Clinton CNN/Opinion Research Clinton 56, Rubio 40 Clinton +16
General Election: Christie vs. Clinton CNN/Opinion Research Clinton 55, Christie 39 Clinton +16
General Election: Trump vs. Clinton CNN/Opinion Research Clinton 59, Trump 35 Clinton +24

Looks good for Hillary laeding her closest Republican challenger by 13 points, she crushes trump by 24!
Note Biden leading over Sanders.

[Arlenton]

Here are today's polls:
Wednesday, July 1
2016 Republican Presidential Nomination CNN/ORC Bush 19, Walker 6, Rubio 6, Carson 7, Huckabee 8, Paul 7, Trump 12, Cruz 3, Christie 3, Perry 4, Santorum 3, Fiorina 1, Kasich 2, Jindal 2, Graham 1 Bush +7

2016 Democratic Presidential Nomination CNN/Opinion Research Clinton 58, Biden 17, Sanders 15, Webb 1, O'Malley 1, Chafee Clinton +41

Iowa Republican Presidential Caucus Quinnipiac Walker 18, Carson 10, Bush 8, Paul 9, Rubio 7, Huckabee 5, Trump 10, Cruz 9, Santorum 4, Christie 1, Perry 4, Fiorina 3, Kasich 2, Jindal 3 Walker +8

General Election: Bush vs. Clinton CNN/Opinion Research Clinton 54, Bush 41 Clinton +13
General Election: Walker vs. Clinton CNN/Opinion Research Clinton 57, Walker 40 Clinton +17
General Election: Rubio vs. Clinton CNN/Opinion Research Clinton 56, Rubio 40 Clinton +16
General Election: Christie vs. Clinton CNN/Opinion Research Clinton 55, Christie 39 Clinton +16
General Election: Trump vs. Clinton CNN/Opinion Research Clinton 59, Trump 35 Clinton +24

Looks good for Hillary laeding her closest Republican challenger by 13 points, she crushes trump by 24!
Note Biden leading over Sanders.

"Sanders held a rally with 100000000000000 people, how could this be!?!?!?11!?!"

And I would assume most Biden supporters go to Hillary once/if he rules out a run. Same goes for Chafee, if he had any.

[UED]

Here are today's polls:
Wednesday, July 1
2016 Republican Presidential Nomination CNN/ORC Bush 19, Walker 6, Rubio 6, Carson 7, Huckabee 8, Paul 7, Trump 12, Cruz 3, Christie 3, Perry 4, Santorum 3, Fiorina 1, Kasich 2, Jindal 2, Graham 1 Bush +7

2016 Democratic Presidential Nomination CNN/Opinion Research Clinton 58, Biden 17, Sanders 15, Webb 1, O'Malley 1, Chafee Clinton +41

Iowa Republican Presidential Caucus Quinnipiac Walker 18, Carson 10, Bush 8, Paul 9, Rubio 7, Huckabee 5, Trump 10, Cruz 9, Santorum 4, Christie 1, Perry 4, Fiorina 3, Kasich 2, Jindal 3 Walker +8

General Election: Bush vs. Clinton CNN/Opinion Research Clinton 54, Bush 41 Clinton +13
General Election: Walker vs. Clinton CNN/Opinion Research Clinton 57, Walker 40 Clinton +17
General Election: Rubio vs. Clinton CNN/Opinion Research Clinton 56, Rubio 40 Clinton +16
General Election: Christie vs. Clinton CNN/Opinion Research Clinton 55, Christie 39 Clinton +16
General Election: Trump vs. Clinton CNN/Opinion Research Clinton 59, Trump 35 Clinton +24

Looks good for Hillary laeding her closest Republican challenger by 13 points, she crushes trump by 24!
Note Biden leading over Sanders.

I love how the majority of NS (Who are democrats) are young so they support Sanders. I like Sanders in many ways but the avg democrat + moderate democrats will probably side with Hiliary cause Sanders will get the Democrats annihilated if he wins the primary (if the Republicans get a moderate as their candidate).

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Here are today's polls:
Wednesday, July 1
2016 Republican Presidential Nomination CNN/ORC Bush 19, Walker 6, Rubio 6, Carson 7, Huckabee 8, Paul 7, Trump 12, Cruz 3, Christie 3, Perry 4, Santorum 3, Fiorina 1, Kasich 2, Jindal 2, Graham 1 Bush +7

2016 Democratic Presidential Nomination CNN/Opinion Research Clinton 58, Biden 17, Sanders 15, Webb 1, O'Malley 1, Chafee Clinton +41

Iowa Republican Presidential Caucus Quinnipiac Walker 18, Carson 10, Bush 8, Paul 9, Rubio 7, Huckabee 5, Trump 10, Cruz 9, Santorum 4, Christie 1, Perry 4, Fiorina 3, Kasich 2, Jindal 3 Walker +8

General Election: Bush vs. Clinton CNN/Opinion Research Clinton 54, Bush 41 Clinton +13
General Election: Walker vs. Clinton CNN/Opinion Research Clinton 57, Walker 40 Clinton +17
General Election: Rubio vs. Clinton CNN/Opinion Research Clinton 56, Rubio 40 Clinton +16
General Election: Christie vs. Clinton CNN/Opinion Research Clinton 55, Christie 39 Clinton +16
General Election: Trump vs. Clinton CNN/Opinion Research Clinton 59, Trump 35 Clinton +24

Looks good for Hillary laeding her closest Republican challenger by 13 points, she crushes trump by 24!
Note Biden leading over Sanders.

I love how the majority of NS (Who are democrats) are young so they support Sanders. I like Sanders in many ways but the avg democrat + moderate democrats will probably side with Hiliary cause Sanders will get the Democrats annihilated if he wins the primary (if the Republicans get a moderate as their candidate).

If the surveys I've seen are any indication, I'm rather older than the majority of NSGers, and yet I'm a firm Sanders supporter. Let's not be too hasty to generalize.

[Lykens]

Here are today's polls:
Wednesday, July 1
2016 Republican Presidential Nomination CNN/ORC Bush 19, Walker 6, Rubio 6, Carson 7, Huckabee 8, Paul 7, Trump 12, Cruz 3, Christie 3, Perry 4, Santorum 3, Fiorina 1, Kasich 2, Jindal 2, Graham 1 Bush +7

2016 Democratic Presidential Nomination CNN/Opinion Research Clinton 58, Biden 17, Sanders 15, Webb 1, O'Malley 1, Chafee Clinton +41

Iowa Republican Presidential Caucus Quinnipiac Walker 18, Carson 10, Bush 8, Paul 9, Rubio 7, Huckabee 5, Trump 10, Cruz 9, Santorum 4, Christie 1, Perry 4, Fiorina 3, Kasich 2, Jindal 3 Walker +8

General Election: Bush vs. Clinton CNN/Opinion Research Clinton 54, Bush 41 Clinton +13
General Election: Walker vs. Clinton CNN/Opinion Research Clinton 57, Walker 40 Clinton +17
General Election: Rubio vs. Clinton CNN/Opinion Research Clinton 56, Rubio 40 Clinton +16
General Election: Christie vs. Clinton CNN/Opinion Research Clinton 55, Christie 39 Clinton +16
General Election: Trump vs. Clinton CNN/Opinion Research Clinton 59, Trump 35 Clinton +24

Looks good for Hillary laeding her closest Republican challenger by 13 points, she crushes trump by 24!
Note Biden leading over Sanders.

I love how the majority of NS (Who are democrats) are young so they support Sanders. I like Sanders in many ways but the avg democrat + moderate democrats will probably side with Hiliary cause Sanders will get the Democrats annihilated if he wins the primary (if the Republicans get a moderate as their candidate).

Hillary still leads him by a lot, so he probably won't. I like Bernie, but he probably won't be electable in the gernal. I'm just hoping he pushes Hillary enough to the left.

As for a moderate Republican candidate, see Mitt Romney and John McCain.

One was a liberal to moderate Republican who was absolutely not a liberal to moderate Republican because the base, who usually have a disproportionate effect on primaries and caucuses, was full of conservatives.

Mr. Maverick John McCain is an even greater example. He wasn't even necessarily liberal or moderate, but he was independent. That changed.

[Marylandonia]

Jeb Bush lets Donald Trump slur his wife's nationality and says little. What a guy! Reminds me of Mike Dukakis not having any emotional reaction to the Bernard Shaw (formerly of CNN) hypothetical question about Kitty

Dukakis getting raped in the 1988 debate with GHW Bush. The media raked Dukakis over the coals for his cold response and lacking any emotional fire. It seems to me this is a very similar thing. If a guy was to say that

about the nationality of the mother of Joe Sixpack's children, He is going to take him to task. Especially if he is competing with him for anything. George Pataki said today that other Republicans should call Trump out for

his bigoted remarks about Mexicans. Well, this is what Jeb Bush should have done, and Jeb blew it!

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Jeb Bush lets Donald Trump slur his wife's nationality and says little. What a guy! Reminds me of Mike Dukakis not having any emotional reaction to the Bernard Shaw (formerly of CNN) hypothetical question about Kitty

Dukakis getting raped in the 1988 debate with GHW Bush. The media raked Dukakis over the coals for his cold response and lacking any emotional fire. It seems to me this is a very similar thing. If a guy was to say that

about the nationality of the mother of Joe Sixpack's children, He is going to take him to task. Especially if he is competing with him for anything. George Pataki said today that other Republicans should call Trump out for

his bigoted remarks about Mexicans. Well, this is what Jeb Bush should have done, and Jeb blew it!

Ah, but is the mother of Joe Sixpack's children Mexican? When you bring race and ethnicity into the equation, it changes everything.

[Marylandonia]

Jeb Bush lets Donald Trump slur his wife's nationality and says little. What a guy! Reminds me of Mike Dukakis not having any emotional reaction to the Bernard Shaw (formerly of CNN) hypothetical question about Kitty

Dukakis getting raped in the 1988 debate with GHW Bush. The media raked Dukakis over the coals for his cold response and lacking any emotional fire. It seems to me this is a very similar thing. If a guy was to say that

about the nationality of the mother of Joe Sixpack's children, He is going to take him to task. Especially if he is competing with him for anything. George Pataki said today that other Republicans should call Trump out for

his bigoted remarks about Mexicans. Well, this is what Jeb Bush should have done, and Jeb blew it!

Ah, but is the mother of Joe Sixpack's children Mexican? When you bring race and ethnicity into the equation, it changes everything.

The Hispanic voters he is trying to court are ...any questions now?

[Yorkvale]

Progressive rhetoric is contrary to the ideals this nation was founded upon. We are a nation of immigrants, entrepreneurs, and self made men. We believe in equal opportunity, not equal outcome. We believe the Government's role is to encourage a positive business environment, not to discourage it.

Not only that, but progressives are quite uninformed on the overarching role banking plays in our economy and is more likely to regulate for the sake of regulating than create actually productive policy.

Bernie has integrity. He's real candidate and he's honest.

I just don't agree with his tone, his rhetoric, or his policy.

[Marylandonia]

Progressive rhetoric is contrary to the ideals this nation was founded upon. We are a nation of immigrants, entrepreneurs, and self made men. We believe in equal opportunity, not equal outcome. We believe the Government's role is to encourage a positive business environment, not to discourage it.

Not only that, but progressives are quite uninformed on the overarching role banking plays in our economy and is more likely to regulate for the sake of regulating than create actually productive policy.

Bernie has integrity. He's real candidate and he's honest.

I just don't agree with his tone, his rhetoric, or his policy.

He is kind of the Democratic Primary's version of Ron Paul in 2012. He is not of that party, has joined to get a chance at the nomination. He had his hard core supporters who are very vocal on social media. The noise you hear from them is quite disproportionate to his actual support overall. I like Bernie very much and hope he pulls Hillary left. I even like him as a veep choice. Certainly he makes the short list. But like Ron Paul, he is an interloper, and he isn't owed anything huge from the party. Bottom line: this is Hillary's to lose and not Bernie's to win.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Ah, but is the mother of Joe Sixpack's children Mexican? When you bring race and ethnicity into the equation, it changes everything.

The Hispanic voters he is trying to court are ...any questions now?

Sorry, thought that you were talking about Joe Sixpack, a term that is generally used to describe white, male, working-class voters, and their wives. I should have known that you were talking about a voting bloc that you didn't actually mention in your post. How foolish of me.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Progressive rhetoric is contrary to the ideals this nation was founded upon. We are a nation of immigrants, entrepreneurs, and self made men. We believe in equal opportunity, not equal outcome. We believe the Government's role is to encourage a positive business environment, not to discourage it.

Not only that, but progressives are quite uninformed on the overarching role banking plays in our economy and is more likely to regulate for the sake of regulating than create actually productive policy.

Bernie has integrity. He's real candidate and he's honest.

I just don't agree with his tone, his rhetoric, or his policy.

He is kind of the Democratic Primary's version of Ron Paul in 2012. He is not of that party, has joined to get a chance at the nomination. He had his hard core supporters who are very vocal on social media. The noise you hear from them is quite disproportionate to his actual support overall. I like Bernie very much and hope he pulls Hillary left. I even like him as a veep choice. Certainly he makes the short list. But like Ron Paul, he is an interloper, and he isn't owed anything huge from the party. Bottom line: this is Hillary's to lose and not Bernie's to win.

He's not making a Veep short list under any circumstances whatsoever, and I say that as one of his supporters.

[Marylandonia]

The Hispanic voters he is trying to court are ...any questions now?

Sorry, thought that you were talking about Joe Sixpack, a term that is generally used to describe white, male, working-class voters, and their wives. I should have known that you were talking about a voting bloc that you didn't actually mention in your post. How foolish of me.

In the context of the entire post, it is quite evident to me. Maybe not to you. But whatever. Can you at least agree about the point instead of making this about your misunderstanding or mine?

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Sorry, thought that you were talking about Joe Sixpack, a term that is generally used to describe white, male, working-class voters, and their wives. I should have known that you were talking about a voting bloc that you didn't actually mention in your post. How foolish of me.

In the context of the entire post, it is quite evident to me. Maybe not to you. But whatever. Can you at least agree about the point instead of making this about your misunderstanding or mine?

Then please be more clear in your communications in the future, and don't be snarky with the other person when you fail in that endeavor.

[Marylandonia]

Random thoughts:

A few folks that are for Bernie Sanders are only for Bernie because they think that he is an easier candidate to defeat for their Republican hopeful, i.e. whoever the party nominates. They are terrified of Hillary Clinton, and rightly so. Getting them to admit it is a difficult thing though.

It was announced today that the unemployment rate has now dropped to 5.3%. What was it when Bush left office on January 20th, 2009, around 8%? If it is any where near 5.3% when Hillary and Jeb Bush debate (providing he survives the primaries), what smashing line will she lay on him? I can not wait to hear that.

[Geilinor]

Random thoughts:

A few folks that are for Bernie Sanders are only for Bernie because they think that he is an easier candidate to defeat for their Republican hopeful, i.e. whoever the party nominates. They are terrified of Hillary Clinton, and rightly so. Getting them to admit it is a difficult thing though.

It was announced today that the unemployment rate has now dropped to 5.3%. What was it when Bush left office on January 20th, 2009, around 8%?

The unemployment rate is low, but only 59.3% of the population has a job today compared to 63% before the recession.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Random thoughts:

A few folks that are for Bernie Sanders are only for Bernie because they think that he is an easier candidate to defeat for their Republican hopeful, i.e. whoever the party nominates. They are terrified of Hillary Clinton, and rightly so. Getting them to admit it is a difficult thing though.

It was announced today that the unemployment rate has now dropped to 5.3%. What was it when Bush left office on January 20th, 2009, around 8%?

The unemployment rate is low, but only 59.3% of the population has a job today compared to 63% before the recession.

Oh, no. We haven't fixed the entire goddamned mess created under the last guy's watch as of yet.

[Geilinor]

The unemployment rate is low, but only 59.3% of the population has a job today compared to 63% before the recession.

Oh, no. We haven't fixed the entire goddamned mess created under the last guy's watch as of yet.

It would be easier for Jeb to say he's abandoning his brother's policies than to try to defend them. Clinton only has to worry about what we know will come up - emails and Benghazi.

[Atlanticatia]

Progressive rhetoric is contrary to the ideals this nation was founded upon. We are a nation of immigrants, entrepreneurs, and self made men. We believe in equal opportunity, not equal outcome. We believe the Government's role is to encourage a positive business environment, not to discourage it.

Not only that, but progressives are quite uninformed on the overarching role banking plays in our economy and is more likely to regulate for the sake of regulating than create actually productive policy.

Bernie has integrity. He's real candidate and he's honest.

I just don't agree with his tone, his rhetoric, or his policy.

Equality of opportunity is impossible without greater equality of income. You can't have equity without an equal starting point for everyone.

[Geilinor]

Progressive rhetoric is contrary to the ideals this nation was founded upon. We are a nation of immigrants, entrepreneurs, and self made men. We believe in equal opportunity, not equal outcome. We believe the Government's role is to encourage a positive business environment, not to discourage it.

Not only that, but progressives are quite uninformed on the overarching role banking plays in our economy and is more likely to regulate for the sake of regulating than create actually productive policy.

Bernie has integrity. He's real candidate and he's honest.

I just don't agree with his tone, his rhetoric, or his policy.

Equality of opportunity is impossible without greater equality of income. You can't have equity without an equal starting point for everyone.

That's impossible unless we go for a 100% inheritance tax.

[Marylandonia]

In the context of the entire post, it is quite evident to me. Maybe not to you. But whatever. Can you at least agree about the point instead of making this about your misunderstanding or mine?

Then please be more clear in your communications in the future, and don't be snarky with the other person when you fail in that endeavor.

Ah! But there is no snark. And some people use diversionary tactics to evade making clear responses. This happens a lot. So if you don't want to agree or disagree on the original point, which you now comprehend, then

don't. And to that point, if Jeb defends Mexican/Hispanic honor now he gets burned in his party during the primaries. And if he doesn't, and he is the nominee, he gets burned for it in the general by a Democrat who is

most likely Mrs. Clinton. Catch-22 for Jeb. But Republican Joe Sixpack types like to see a little fire in the belly, as I was saying. So it could burn Jeb in primaries in northern states where voters might not care so much if

they are or aren't Mexican, and can relate to defending their wives and children against such slurs, because they aren't all bigots. Jeb's in a bind.

[Grave_n_idle]

Progressive rhetoric is contrary to the ideals this nation was founded upon. We are a nation of immigrants, entrepreneurs, and self made men. We believe in equal opportunity, not equal outcome. We believe the Government's role is to encourage a positive business environment, not to discourage it.

A 'positive business environment' isn't necessarily the least regulated paradigm - there's more to business (yes, even business) than the bottom line.

You are right about America not promising equal outcome, but the American dream IS an equal outcome dream. We can't all achieve the dream if we have a class of rich people holding the poor down.

As for the ideals the nation was founded on... you realise that the founding of the US wasn't just progressive, but actually revolutionary? Quite simply, you're wrong - the US was expressly founded on progressive ideals.

They even rejected greater decentralisation, etc because the Articles of Confederation had proved that there is such a thing as 'too much freedom' - the Constitution was specifically written to give a stronger central government and less self-rule to member states.

Quite simply, your understanding of where we came from is just flat out wrong... so no wonder why aren't there any more.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Oh, no. We haven't fixed the entire goddamned mess created under the last guy's watch as of yet.

It would be easier for Jeb to say he's abandoning his brother's policies than to try to defend them. Clinton only has to worry about what we know will come up - emails and Benghazi.

Exactly, and people are tired of Benghazi, and the emails likely won't make too much difference in the long run unless evidence of serious corruption comes up.

[Grave_n_idle]

Equality of opportunity is impossible without greater equality of income. You can't have equity without an equal starting point for everyone.

That's impossible unless we go for a 100% inheritance tax.

Possibly true. But even if true, it doesn't change the fact that you really can't have equal opportunity without it.