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You are Guilty: Trial By Combat?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

What do you choose?

Normal Trial
42
46%
Trial by Combat, you represent yourself
27
30%
Trial by Combat, hire a professional fighter
13
14%
Trial by Combat find a family/friend to fight for you
2
2%
Trial by Combat, use Coster-Waldau as the champion
7
8%
 
Total votes : 91

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Infected Mushroom
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You are Guilty: Trial By Combat?

Postby Infected Mushroom » Sun May 31, 2015 5:02 am

You are in the USA where they have the death penalty. Texas.

You have been charged with a very serious crime; you are in fact innocent but the state has a strong case because you were framed by a master schemer nicknamed Littlefinger. The penalty is potentially death; the state is going ahead with the case, they refuse to drop the death penalty (your lawyers are whatever you can afford in real life, if you can't afford any lawyers then its a public defender).

At the very beginning of the trial, you are given a choice (this is an election, you have to make the choice NOW and you can't change your choice later).

_____________

Choice 1: Proceed with the trial. Plead Not Guilty. The State thinks it has a relatively strong case. Right off the bat, they refuse to bargain with you, they don't feel they need to treat with you because they are confident in the case's success against you (therefore pleading Not Guilty isn't an option because it will just get you executed immediately).

It is POSSIBLE you will be in a position later in the trial to reduce your sentence through bargaining but you would be relying on an unexpected development later on. You can also choose to gamble on your lawyers lucking it out and getting a Not Guilty in the end somehow.

Choice 2: ''I de-MAN-d a trial by combat.''

You must choose now. You cannot choose later (ex have the trial run for a few months and then go Trial by Combat if you don't like how it's going). The choice must be made at the outset and its irrevocable.

__________________

If you go with Choice 1 its just a normal criminal trial with very high stakes for you. You get whatever legal services you can afford otherwise its a public defender. If you go with Choice 2, the outcome of the trial will be decided in a fight to the death between you and a fighter chosen by the Governor of Texas. The fight will take place in a football stadium; the weapon for the duel will be a Gladius. The two fighters will wield identical weapons (same maker, same weight etc). The two fighters will be allowed to train in the stadium for a complete week but the costs are out of pocket.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gladius

You are not allowed to bring in additional weapons, any kind of armour, or to take any kind of performance enhancement drugs before the duel. You ARE allowed to hire someone else to fight for you/convince a relative or friend to fight in your place. A few things to keep in mind.

1.The media is covering the case and the hype is just INSANE. Most of the commentators and the general public think you are guilty. If you go Trial by Combat, the Governor will be under heavy pressure to find a very skilled fighter to represent Texas.

2. Keep in mind that if you want to hire a replacement fighter, its likely to be very expensive. This is a fight to the death. If you want a friend/family member to fight for you, they better be good.

3. A few days before you have to make the decision, the actor who plays Jaime Lannister (Coster-Waldau) visits your cell and agrees to be your champion if you choose to go trial by combat but can't find anyone else to fight for you and don't want to fight yourself. Coster-Waldau has no experience whatsoever in real life fencing or duelling except some basics he learned to film his fight scenes in Game of Thrones and some other movies.

______________

I would demand a trial by combat and then face the state's duelist myself. It is a matter of personal honour, I will not be willing to risk anyone else's life besides my own to prove my own innocence in the field.

I don't trust the conventional justice system since they put me on trial despite my innocence even though with my real life resources I could probably hire a decent lawyer.

I will face my enemy in the field and if I go down, then at least I go down swinging. Its a matter of honour.
______________

What do you choose and why do you choose what you choose? Do you go with a normal trial or a trial by combat? If you go trial by combat, do you fight yourself or do you hire someone else to do it/find a friend or family member to fight on your behalf?

Why? How do you justify your choice?
Last edited by Infected Mushroom on Sun May 31, 2015 5:05 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Aelex
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Postby Aelex » Sun May 31, 2015 5:18 am

Ordalie was already considered as bullshit in Middle Age so why should it be viewed as more logical now?
And, please, stop the constants A.S.O.I.A.F references, it's becoming boring as shit.
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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Sun May 31, 2015 5:23 am

Aelex wrote:Ordalie was already considered as bullshit in Middle Age so why should it be viewed as more logical now?
And, please, stop the constants A.S.O.I.A.F references, it's becoming boring as shit.


its not necessarily more logical, this is a hypothetical. We assume it has been implemented (let's say, this is corporate America and the corporations decided televised trials by combat would increase viewership).

so what would you do in such a situation?
Last edited by Infected Mushroom on Sun May 31, 2015 5:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Arcturus Novus
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Postby Arcturus Novus » Sun May 31, 2015 5:26 am

Saw this in the Latest Topics column and instantly knew that Kefka wrote it.

Anyways, I'd just go on with the trial. No point in killing someone to prove my innocencce.
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Postby Jute » Sun May 31, 2015 5:27 am

How did I know this was a thread by Infected Mushroom just by reading the title? :P
Seriously, of course the first option. Rule of Law over rule of power, violence solves nothing, that is the job of the courts etc...
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Postby Aelex » Sun May 31, 2015 5:27 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:so what would you do in such a situation?

No death penalty in my country. :p
Still, I would get the third choice and go with the "aqua frigida"; l'ordalie de l'eau froide. I have good lungs and I'm a great swimmer so I think I would survive it easily.
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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Sun May 31, 2015 5:28 am

Will you please stop with the game of thrones based threads for the love of the fucking god emperor of man.

Anyway i go with the Trial.
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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Sun May 31, 2015 5:29 am

Arcturus Novus wrote:Saw this in the Latest Topics column and instantly knew that Kefka wrote it.

Anyways, I'd just go on with the trial. No point in killing someone to prove my innocencce.


That's an interesting way to view it.

Though keep in mind that that person volunteered to fight against you (to kill you or your fighter) to prove your guilt once you moved to trial by combat. They knew you could be innocent, but they were willing to kill you/your representative to prove your supposed guilt.

I think that makes them fair game.

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Arcturus Novus
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Postby Arcturus Novus » Sun May 31, 2015 5:30 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Arcturus Novus wrote:Saw this in the Latest Topics column and instantly knew that Kefka wrote it.

Anyways, I'd just go on with the trial. No point in killing someone to prove my innocencce.


That's an interesting way to view it.

Though keep in mind that that person volunteered to fight against you (to kill you or your fighter) to prove your guilt once you moved to trial by combat. They knew you could be innocent, but they were willing to kill you/your representative to prove your supposed guilt.

I think that makes them fair game.

I don't enjoy killing people.
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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Sun May 31, 2015 5:31 am

Arcturus Novus wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
That's an interesting way to view it.

Though keep in mind that that person volunteered to fight against you (to kill you or your fighter) to prove your guilt once you moved to trial by combat. They knew you could be innocent, but they were willing to kill you/your representative to prove your supposed guilt.

I think that makes them fair game.

I don't enjoy killing people.


Neither do I.

In fact, I've never held a sword in my life.

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The Holy Therns
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Postby The Holy Therns » Sun May 31, 2015 5:31 am

You just refuse to accept you live in the 21st century, IM, don't you?
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Postby HYDRA-Russian Empire » Sun May 31, 2015 5:31 am

Even though I can afford the best of lawyers, even they can fail.
So I would spend the money I was going to spend on a lawyer(s) on hiring the best fencing/duelling champion I can afford (he is going to be world class probably). That way I have a higher chance of being proven innocent.
I myself am not good with a sword, so I would not use myself in the sword fight. If it was a gun fight, I would chose myself as I am a very good marksman.
In conclusion, I would chose Trial by Combat, and would hire a world-class swordsman to represent me, as I can afford this.
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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Sun May 31, 2015 5:32 am

HYDRA-Russian Empire wrote:Even though I can afford the best of lawyers, even they can fail.
So I would spend the money I was going to spend on a lawyer(s) on hiring the best fencing/duelling champion I can afford (he is going to be world class probably). That way I have a higher chance of being proven innocent.
I myself am not good with a sword, so I would not use myself in the sword fight. If it was a gun fight, I would chose myself as I am a very good marksman.
In conclusion, I would chose Trial by Combat, and would hire a world-class swordsman to represent me, as I can afford this.


I see...

but if it were a Western style high noon duel you would fight personally?

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Postby HYDRA-Russian Empire » Sun May 31, 2015 5:34 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
HYDRA-Russian Empire wrote:Even though I can afford the best of lawyers, even they can fail.
So I would spend the money I was going to spend on a lawyer(s) on hiring the best fencing/duelling champion I can afford (he is going to be world class probably). That way I have a higher chance of being proven innocent.
I myself am not good with a sword, so I would not use myself in the sword fight. If it was a gun fight, I would chose myself as I am a very good marksman.
In conclusion, I would chose Trial by Combat, and would hire a world-class swordsman to represent me, as I can afford this.


I see...

but if it were a Western style high noon duel you would fight personally?

Probably, as I am much better with a gun that with a sword.
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Postby Aelex » Sun May 31, 2015 5:34 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:Neither do I.

In fact, I've never held a sword in my life.

Really? You should practice Escrime, it's way better than jogging.
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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Sun May 31, 2015 5:34 am

HYDRA-Russian Empire wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
I see...

but if it were a Western style high noon duel you would fight personally?

Probably, as I am much better with a gun that with a sword.


I see...

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Postby HYDRA-Russian Empire » Sun May 31, 2015 5:35 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
HYDRA-Russian Empire wrote:Probably, as I am much better with a gun that with a sword.


I see...

See what?
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Aethrys
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Postby Aethrys » Sun May 31, 2015 5:35 am

No to trial by combat. Aside from that being a really stupid system in the first place, I'm not going to win, especially not if either party can choose/hire stand-in gladiators. Mostly because I couldn't afford that and I don't know any psychopaths willing to face down death for me. Seriously, how shitty would that be though? Say you DO have some professional fighter for a close friend/family member, and the guy getting paid a few million to represent the prosecution turns out to be a little bit better. Now your friend or relative is dead and you're still getting executed.
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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Sun May 31, 2015 5:36 am

Aelex wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:Neither do I.

In fact, I've never held a sword in my life.

Really? You should practice Escrime, it's way better than jogging.


I'm thinking of getting into it someday. I'm also looking at jousting.

Still, this is a real duel to the death with a gladius. Its going to be a bit different. I've heard that modern fencing is geared towards risky offensive attacks to score points since the hits are non-lethal while medieval fencing is more defensive.

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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Sun May 31, 2015 5:36 am

HYDRA-Russian Empire wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
I see...

See what?


it means I understand

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Postby Infected Mushroom » Sun May 31, 2015 5:37 am

Aethrys wrote:No to trial by combat. Aside from that being a really stupid system in the first place, I'm not going to win, especially not if either party can choose/hire stand-in gladiators. Mostly because I couldn't afford that and I don't know any psychopaths willing to face down death for me. Seriously, how shitty would that be though? Say you DO have some professional fighter for a close friend/family member, and the guy getting paid a few million to represent the prosecution turns out to be a little bit better. Now your friend or relative is dead and you're still getting executed.


You don't trust Coster-Waldau?

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Postby HYDRA-Russian Empire » Sun May 31, 2015 5:37 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
HYDRA-Russian Empire wrote:See what?


it means I understand

:)
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Sun May 31, 2015 5:39 am

Jute wrote:How did I know this was a thread by Infected Mushroom just by reading the title? :P
Seriously, of course the first option. Rule of Law over rule of power, violence solves nothing, that is the job of the courts etc...


so you think you have a higher chance of winning by a normal trial?

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Aethrys
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Postby Aethrys » Sun May 31, 2015 5:43 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Aethrys wrote:No to trial by combat. Aside from that being a really stupid system in the first place, I'm not going to win, especially not if either party can choose/hire stand-in gladiators. Mostly because I couldn't afford that and I don't know any psychopaths willing to face down death for me. Seriously, how shitty would that be though? Say you DO have some professional fighter for a close friend/family member, and the guy getting paid a few million to represent the prosecution turns out to be a little bit better. Now your friend or relative is dead and you're still getting executed.


You don't trust Coster-Waldau?


No, I do not trust a middle aged actor with my life. Why are we discussing the joke option? Aside from thrones fanpoints I mean.
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Postby Aelex » Sun May 31, 2015 5:48 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:I'm thinking of getting into it someday. I'm also looking at jousting.

Still, this is a real duel to the death with a gladius. Its going to be a bit different. I've heard that modern fencing is geared towards risky offensive attacks to score points since the hits are non-lethal while medieval fencing is more defensive.

As someone who had tryied to ride a horse, I can tell you that you'll need a fuck lot of training before even being able to control one without the two hands.
So, jousting which need to control the horse with only the éperons is near to impossible without 3/4 years of equitation.

About escrime, I do have to correct you, both medieval and modern are as defensive/aggressive, they just don't use the same weapons. Medieval fancing used shield and sword when the "modern" (which is not so much since nothing had changed since the 16th century) one's only use a fleuret.
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