NationStates

I could not find a thread discussing this, but I think it is worth talking about.

Senator Rand Paul has successfully pushed the Patriot Act to the edge of existence. The Patriot Act is a bill which was passed shortly after 9/11, and gives some U.S. security and law enforcement organizations access to more information. This was intended to help fight terrorism.

Rand Paul is opposed to the patriot act on the basis that it is a violation of the fourth amendment to the U.S. constitution, which requires respect for U.S. citizens' right to privacy in all federal laws. The patriot act expires tomorrow, at midnight, unless it can gain over 60% of the vote in the U.S. Senate. This is nigh impossible, because support and opposition for the patriot act cuts across party lines. For example, when Senator Paul (a republican) was fighting against the patriot act last week, he had support from seven democrats.

It is very likely the Patriot Act will meet its demise within the next 36 hours. Personally, I am in full support of that happening.

The U.S. Senate should strike down any talk of reviving the Patriot Act and allow its death,

It should have never been passed.

Galiantus II wrote:I could not find a thread discussing this, but I think it is worth talking about.

Senator Rand Paul has successfully pushed the Patriot Act to the edge of existence. The Patriot Act is a bill which was passed shortly after 9/11, and gives some U.S. security and law enforcement organizations access to more information. This was intended to help fight terrorism.

Rand Paul is opposed to the patriot act on the basis that it is a violation of the fourth amendment to the U.S. constitution, which requires respect for U.S. citizens' right to privacy in all federal laws. The patriot act expires tomorrow, at midnight, unless it can gain over 60% of the vote in the U.S. Senate. This is nigh impossible, because support and opposition for the patriot act cuts across party lines. For example, when Senator Paul (a republican) was fighting against the patriot act last week, he had support from seven democrats.

It is very likely the Patriot Act will meet its demise within the next 36 hours. Personally, I am in full support of that happening.

i'm surprised it is only seven dems on his side. Perhaps more plan to vote against it. If they don't I think they have to return their aclu membership cards.

Llamalandia wrote:

Galiantus II wrote:I could not find a thread discussing this, but I think it is worth talking about.

Senator Rand Paul has successfully pushed the Patriot Act to the edge of existence. The Patriot Act is a bill which was passed shortly after 9/11, and gives some U.S. security and law enforcement organizations access to more information. This was intended to help fight terrorism.

Rand Paul is opposed to the patriot act on the basis that it is a violation of the fourth amendment to the U.S. constitution, which requires respect for U.S. citizens' right to privacy in all federal laws. The patriot act expires tomorrow, at midnight, unless it can gain over 60% of the vote in the U.S. Senate. This is nigh impossible, because support and opposition for the patriot act cuts across party lines. For example, when Senator Paul (a republican) was fighting against the patriot act last week, he had support from seven democrats.

It is very likely the Patriot Act will meet its demise within the next 36 hours. Personally, I am in full support of that happening.

i'm surprised it is only seven dems on his side. Perhaps more plan to vote against it. If they don't I think they have to return their aclu membership cards.

LOL this. Even more disappointing when so many Democrats and Republicans all supported the TPP.

Obama wasted his weekly radio address by urging support for the Patriot Act redux.

Shame on him.

It does amaze me how the GOP can revile him so much, when he is so much like them.

Pope Joan wrote:Obama wasted his weekly radio address by urging support for the Patriot Act redux.

Shame on him.

It does amaze me how the GOP can revile him so much, when he is so much like them.

Haha. The essential thing that makes Republicans and Democrats different is that Republicans are slightly to the political right of Democrats. Pick your poison: they're both bad.

Unfortunately, supporting the Patriot Act is likely to be a sure way to ruin your political career.

Charlotte Ryberg wrote:Unfortunately, supporting the Patriot Act is likely to be a sure way to ruin your political career.

Wait why is that unfortunate? Patriot act is largely stupid worthless and unconstitutional.

Pope Joan wrote:Obama wasted his weekly radio address by urging support for the Patriot Act redux.

Shame on him.

It does amaze me how the GOP can revile him so much, when he is so much like them.

The USA Freedom Act is a perfectly reasonable bill that requires specific warrants.

The Patriot Act seems similar to the proposed Canadian Bill C-51 Anti-Terrorism Act.

Geilinor wrote:

Pope Joan wrote:Obama wasted his weekly radio address by urging support for the Patriot Act redux.

Shame on him.

It does amaze me how the GOP can revile him so much, when he is so much like them.

The USA Freedom Act is a perfectly reasonable bill that requires specific warrants.

Warrants issued by whom and using what standard of evidence? I mean, wire taps are legally with a warrant already and were legal even before the patriot act. It is the massive dragnet of data and the secrecy of the process that is at issue.

Llamalandia wrote:

Charlotte Ryberg wrote:Unfortunately, supporting the Patriot Act is likely to be a sure way to ruin your political career.

Wait why is that unfortunate? Patriot act is largely stupid worthless and unconstitutional.

Bad choice of the first word in my last reply. My mistake, sorry.

Charlotte Ryberg wrote:

Llamalandia wrote:Wait why is that unfortunate? Patriot act is largely stupid worthless and unconstitutional.

Bad choice of the first word in my last reply. My mistake, sorry.

No worries mate, happens all the time.

Geilinor wrote:

Pope Joan wrote:Obama wasted his weekly radio address by urging support for the Patriot Act redux.

Shame on him.

It does amaze me how the GOP can revile him so much, when he is so much like them.

The USA Freedom Act is a perfectly reasonable bill that requires specific warrants.

I disagree. it avoids the traditional process through which warrants were sought, which required a showing of probable cause.

Here's hoping it expires and isn't renewed.

The bill should just be allowed to expire and completely repealed. . Benjamin Franklin once said "Any society that would give up a little liberty for temporary safety deserves neither liberty nor safely while at the same time losing them both." Plus Utah should cut off the water to the illegal NSA data center. It would be awesome to see their servers overheat and fry the circuits and all their illegally collected data gets lost and the maybe the whole facility goes up in flames.

The unconstitutional section of the Patriot Act in question has expired.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/30/politics/ ... ns-expire/

And suddenly, fear mongers.

As a new day comes to Washington, the U.S. government now officially finds itself with fewer tools to investigate terrorism.

President Barack Obama and government officials spent last week warning of serious national security consequences...

Attorney General Loretta Lynch said last week the United States would face a "serious lapse" in national security.

Officials say the rising threat of lone wolves -- including those inspired by ISIS, but not ordered -- raises the need to maintain that provision of the Patriot Act.

The new "Freedom Act" is nothing more than a band-aid for the NSA, one in which it doesn't need.

It shouldn't have been passed in the first place and should be left to die.

Alcase wrote:The U.S. Senate should strike down any talk of reviving the Patriot Act and allow its death,

It should have never been passed.

Hear! Hear!

Awful piece of totalitarian legislation. I believe it was Ben Franklin who said, "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

The U.S. Congress curtailing people's freedoms and constitutional rights for the sake of "national security" exemplifies this. The U.S. can be safe and secure without the Patriot Act. (The very name actually offends me.)

However, even if it's struck down (which I doubt), the NSA is beyond government now. Like the CIA before it, it is a secret government agency that is a law unto itself and, therefore, legitimises and justifies itself. If Congress shuts it down (very unlikely), then it'll just go even more covert and operate even deeper undercover.

They should change the name to Open Information Act rather than Patriot or Freedom, which harks back to generally bad connotations with the early 2000's.. basic marketing.

YES. RAND PAUL REVOLUTION

Pope Joan wrote:Obama wasted his weekly radio address by urging support for the Patriot Act redux.

Shame on him.

It does amaze me how the GOP can revile him so much, when he is so much like them.

I wholly agree with the last sentence. Social welfare and healthcare aside, Obama has proven to be more Bush III than any Democrat when it comes to all other areas of government such as economic, foreign and national security policy.

But then, that's a symptom of Western politics in general nowadays: economically, parties are clones and where they do differ, it's on singular social issues.

Dragonia Re Xzua wrote:The unconstitutional section of the Patriot Act in question has expired.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/30/politics/ ... ns-expire/

And suddenly, fear mongers.

As a new day comes to Washington, the U.S. government now officially finds itself with fewer tools to investigate terrorism.

President Barack Obama and government officials spent last week warning of serious national security consequences...

Attorney General Loretta Lynch said last week the United States would face a "serious lapse" in national security.

Officials say the rising threat of lone wolves -- including those inspired by ISIS, but not ordered -- raises the need to maintain that provision of the Patriot Act.

The new "Freedom Act" is nothing more than a band-aid for the NSA, one in which it doesn't need.

I agree. Anybody who champions the Patriot Act (or any reincarnation thereof) as being necessary really ought to explain how they didn't detect the planning of and prevent the execution of the Boston bombings (ironically, on Patriot Day in MA); after all, metadata on millions was collected, there were powers to target "lone wolf" operators and, yet, they missed it.

(Or, as conspiracy theorists will berate you, perhaps they let it happen to strengthen their cause: Patriot Act – Patriot Day?!)

The Patriot Act didn't sunset - only Sections 206 (roving wiretap provision) and 215 (library records provision). Section 6001 (lone wolf provision) of the IRPTA also expired as it was tied to the expiration of the other two.

West Aurelia wrote:The Patriot Act didn't sunset - only Sections 206 (roving wiretap provision) and 215 (library records provision). Section 6001 (lone wolf provision) of the IRPTA also expired as it was tied to the expiration of the other two.

In any case, the PATRIOT Act is now weaker than it was. Any replacement must work on a "court order with due process, or nothing" basis.