Feminism in decline

[Llamalandia]

It happens. Heck, I have even cited a story about a woman with a rape fantasy who after sharing that with here boyfriend was "raped" by him. Crazy shit does happen, but yeah, like I said, in general you are correct.

A girl telling her boyfriend about a rape fantasy doesn't constitute consent to being fucking raped.

Given that they had already had sex, she sounded a lot like this was something she very much wanted and given the very nature of rape well...yeah it kinda does. Plus it wasn't like he pulled a gun on her or anything. Nor had someone else do the deed. Rather he just ripped off her clothes and threw her on a bed one day. Doesn't sound all that unreasonable. In fairness to her, though she does claim to be a "rape victim" she did responsibility for not being more clear about her desire adn intentions and for not having a safe word. Still it is a little ridiculous. THis was someone with whom she was in a longish term relationship with, had sex with numerious times before and felt comfortable enough with to share her fantasy and desire with.

[Grave_n_idle]

Feminism is about equality. About rights for women. And men.

Are MRA's like a mirror for feminists? No - they are not interested in gender equality.

It's interesting that you think women and men advocating for one another's rights is like the LGBT movement advocating for raciallydiverse populations. It explains a lot about your understanding of feminism.

Don't worry, I'm not actually accusing you of having an understanding of feminism.

That depends on whether you think feminism is advocating for mens rights or not.

No, it doesn't. What you 'think' about it is irrelevant.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

A girl telling her boyfriend about a rape fantasy doesn't constitute consent to being fucking raped.

This.

There are constructive ways to act out a rape fantasy, some of which can include surprise. (Though this isn't as common.)

"At some point over the next week, I want you to ambush me and roleplay-rape me. If i'm not in the mood at the time, I will use the safe word, Skittles."

Exactly. You can be about to have sex and say "oh, hey, pretend to rape me, get rough" or whatever. Shit like that. But a girl saying she once fantasized about being raped, then her boyfriend literally fucking raping her? That's fucking rape. It's just rape. Not a role play. It's rape. He forced her.

[Llamalandia]

You know it feels like "so-called feminists" seem to say that often in these threads. Maybe if lots of people aren't "understanding feminism" then maybe feminists are not explaining it very well!

Or, alternatively, no matter how often it's explained, someone from the anti-feminist camp trots out some non-representative minority, or misrepresents something - and the explanation gets lost in three days of arguing about something that was bullshit in the first place.

Ehh, maybe there is some truth in that, but if the issues are really ssuch bullshit they should be fairly easily refuted and they don't seem to be. More importantly, well, maybe feminists should make sure this "non-representative minority" is clearly and quickly refuted by the this supposed majority of reasonable mainstream feminists.

[Frisbeeteria]

Well the males are a stronger gender so even if a man is "raped" (the american definition is bullshit anyway) he cannot feel shame. When you are in a male society and says that a woman used you wihtout knowing it, he would be given compliments about how he managed to attracts a women.

Again this goes for the american defintion of rape.

Given your posting history, it's hard to accept this as anything other than trolling.

*** Three day ban for trolling ***

[Prussia-Steinbach]

A girl telling her boyfriend about a rape fantasy doesn't constitute consent to being fucking raped.

Given that they had already had sex, she sounded a lot like this was something she very much wanted and given the very nature of rape well...yeah it kinda does. Plus it wasn't like he pulled a gun on her or anything. Nor had someone else do the deed. Rather he just ripped off her clothes and threw her on a bed one day. Doesn't sound all that unreasonable. In fairness to her, though she does claim to be a "rape victim" she did responsibility for not being more clear about her desire adn intentions and for not having a safe word. Still it is a little ridiculous. THis was someone with whom she was in a longish term relationship with, had sex with numerious times before and felt comfortable enough with to share her fantasy and desire with.

If she said no or at any point indicated she didn't feel like fucking: It. Was. Rape.

It does not matter how many times they had sex before.

It does not matter what she fantasized about.

It doesn't matter if he thought it was okay.

If. She. Didn't. Want. To. Have. Sex. He. Fucking. Raped. Her.

[Gnork]

Aaand here we go: the "everything is rape"-thing came up

...you honestly don't think non-consensual intercourse is rape? What. The. Unholy. Fuck.

Define "consent". And state in what specific form you want it given.

[Llamalandia]

That depends on whether you think feminism is advocating for mens rights or not.

No, it doesn't. What you 'think' about it is irrelevant.

Do you have evidence that feminism supports men rights as well, like citable sources from well known modern feminists? I mean, besides just, "we fight the patriarchy and the patriarchy hurts teh menz too."

[Prussia-Steinbach]

...you honestly don't think non-consensual intercourse is rape? What. The. Unholy. Fuck.

Define "consent". And state in what specific form you want it given.

I'm not having sex at the moment. But being unconscious is usually a good indicator of a lack of consent.

[Llamalandia]

Given that they had already had sex, she sounded a lot like this was something she very much wanted and given the very nature of rape well...yeah it kinda does. Plus it wasn't like he pulled a gun on her or anything. Nor had someone else do the deed. Rather he just ripped off her clothes and threw her on a bed one day. Doesn't sound all that unreasonable. In fairness to her, though she does claim to be a "rape victim" she did responsibility for not being more clear about her desire adn intentions and for not having a safe word. Still it is a little ridiculous. THis was someone with whom she was in a longish term relationship with, had sex with numerious times before and felt comfortable enough with to share her fantasy and desire with.

If she said no or at any point indicated she didn't feel like fucking: It. Was. Rape.

It does not matter how many times they had sex before.

It does not matter what she fantasized about.

It doesn't matter if he thought it was okay.

If. She. Didn't. Want. To. Have. Sex. He. Fucking. Raped. Her.

So, she didn't say no. She assumed he would just interpret this as part of the role play. In fact she pretty much just lay there as Irecall.

And No. He. Didn't.

[Ostroeuropa]

No, it doesn't. What you 'think' about it is irrelevant.

Do you have evidence that feminism supports men rights as well, like citable sources from well known modern feminists? I mean, besides just, "we fight the patriarchy and the patriarchy hurts teh menz too."

A source of them actually fighting for mens rights, not just saying they support them.

The MRM supports womens rights too. They just don't do much about it. Same as feminism.

In fact, the MRM does better than feminism on some issues, it's decided that female on female domestic abuse and rape is an issue it's prepared to champion, since feminism seems to refuse to hold women accountable.

[Bezkoshtovnya]

...you honestly don't think non-consensual intercourse is rape? What. The. Unholy. Fuck.

Define "consent". And state in what specific form you want it given.

Simple concept really. If a man or woman does not wish to engage in intercourse, and someone continues against those wishes, that is sex without consent.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

If she said no or at any point indicated she didn't feel like fucking: It. Was. Rape.

It does not matter how many times they had sex before.

It does not matter what she fantasized about.

It doesn't matter if he thought it was okay.

If. She. Didn't. Want. To. Have. Sex. He. Fucking. Raped. Her.

So, she didn't say no. She assumed he would just interpret this as part of the role play. In fact she pretty much just lay there as Irecall.

And No. He. Didn't.

I want the source, then. Because there's literally nothing to base this off of. You said the girl talked about a rape fantasy once and he raped her one day. That's not exactly ambiguous.

But by the way, you disgust me. If she didn't want to have sex it was rape. No matter what you think. You should probably register as a sex offender with a mentality like that.

[Llamalandia]

So, she didn't say no. She assumed he would just interpret this as part of the role play. In fact she pretty much just lay there as Irecall.

And No. He. Didn't.

I want the source, then. Because there's literally nothing to base this off of. You said the girl talked about a rape fantasy once and he raped her one day. That's not exactly ambiguous.

But by the way, you disgust me. If she didn't want to have sex it was rape. No matter what you think. You should probably register as a sex offender with a mentality like that.

Here you go, I don't really feel like rehashing this debate though. Bottom line is my position on it that this is about the absolute boundary of feminist "anti-rape" bs. But anyway, here you go.

Girl Talk: When (Rape) Fantasy Becomes Reality

http://www.thefrisky.com/2009-09-23/girl-talk-when-rape-fantasy-becomes-reality/

[Gnork]

Given that they had already had sex, she sounded a lot like this was something she very much wanted and given the very nature of rape well...yeah it kinda does. Plus it wasn't like he pulled a gun on her or anything. Nor had someone else do the deed. Rather he just ripped off her clothes and threw her on a bed one day. Doesn't sound all that unreasonable. In fairness to her, though she does claim to be a "rape victim" she did responsibility for not being more clear about her desire adn intentions and for not having a safe word. Still it is a little ridiculous. THis was someone with whom she was in a longish term relationship with, had sex with numerious times before and felt comfortable enough with to share her fantasy and desire with.

If she said no or at any point indicated she didn't feel like fucking: It. Was. Rape.

It does not matter how many times they had sex before.

It does not matter what she fantasized about.

It doesn't matter if he thought it was okay.

If. She. Didn't. Want. To. Have. Sex. He. Fucking. Raped. Her.

Hey - I'm all for stopping everything when she says no, but this is just humbug. A verbal response should not be too much to ask.

[Wine-loving Chimps]

Basically, the bad press and the extremism that generates it. Feminists attacking Matt Taylor's shirt (causing the guy to cry), going on the wrong side of the majority of the public on GamerGate, and just generally trying too hard to completely remold the way society is a pretty good way to get a lot of people to not like feminists.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

If she said no or at any point indicated she didn't feel like fucking: It. Was. Rape.

It does not matter how many times they had sex before.

It does not matter what she fantasized about.

It doesn't matter if he thought it was okay.

If. She. Didn't. Want. To. Have. Sex. He. Fucking. Raped. Her.

Hey - I'm all for stopping everything when she says no, but this is just humbug. A verbal response should not be too much to ask.

If there was a "no" at any point or she tried to push him away, whatever, it's rape.

[Llamalandia]

So, she didn't say no. She assumed he would just interpret this as part of the role play. In fact she pretty much just lay there as Irecall.

And No. He. Didn't.

I want the source, then. Because there's literally nothing to base this off of. You said the girl talked about a rape fantasy once and he raped her one day. That's not exactly ambiguous.

But by the way, you disgust me. If she didn't want to have sex it was rape. No matter what you think. You should probably register as a sex offender with a mentality like that.

Not something Iwould ever consider personally doing. But hey, at the same time sex shouldn't be treated differently than any other part of society or relations really. It seems that there is always this ever increasing scrutiny and moving goal post on what constitutes consent. It used to be no means no, now we are moving to yes means yes. How long until people literally are forced to sign legal documents securing consent to avoid being labelled a rapist.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

I want the source, then. Because there's literally nothing to base this off of. You said the girl talked about a rape fantasy once and he raped her one day. That's not exactly ambiguous.

But by the way, you disgust me. If she didn't want to have sex it was rape. No matter what you think. You should probably register as a sex offender with a mentality like that.

Here you go, I don't really feel like rehashing this debate though. Bottom line is my position on it that this is about the absolute boundary of feminist "anti-rape" bs. But anyway, here you go.

Girl Talk: When (Rape) Fantasy Becomes Reality

http://www.thefrisky.com/2009-09-23/girl-talk-when-rape-fantasy-becomes-reality/

"Two weeks ago, my gentle and loving boyfriend of three months held me down and forced me to have sex with him against my will... "

End of story. He raped her.

[Llamalandia]

Hey - I'm all for stopping everything when she says no, but this is just humbug. A verbal response should not be too much to ask.

If there was a "no" at any point or she tried to push him away, whatever, it's rape.

There wasn't she didn't. She assumed that would be interpreted as part of the "rape roleplay" and she would probably have been right. At any rate like I said, I don't want to rehash a debate i have already had on this very site before.

[Bezkoshtovnya]

If she said no or at any point indicated she didn't feel like fucking: It. Was. Rape.

It does not matter how many times they had sex before.

It does not matter what she fantasized about.

It doesn't matter if he thought it was okay.

If. She. Didn't. Want. To. Have. Sex. He. Fucking. Raped. Her.

Hey - I'm all for stopping everything when she says no, but this is just humbug. A verbal response should not be too much to ask.

Body language indicating unwillingness isn't hard to read either.

[Llamalandia]

Here you go, I don't really feel like rehashing this debate though. Bottom line is my position on it that this is about the absolute boundary of feminist "anti-rape" bs. But anyway, here you go.



http://www.thefrisky.com/2009-09-23/girl-talk-when-rape-fantasy-becomes-reality/

"Two weeks ago, my gentle and loving boyfriend of three months held me down and forced me to have sex with him against my will... "

End of story. He raped her.

Very nice use of ellipsis to remove relevant context. Well done let provide the rest of it for you.

"...and then told me I had asked for it. And technically, he was right."

[Jute]

Do you have evidence that feminism supports men rights as well, like citable sources from well known modern feminists? I mean, besides just, "we fight the patriarchy and the patriarchy hurts teh menz too."

A source of them actually fighting for mens rights, not just saying they support them.

The MRM supports womens rights too. They just don't do much about it. Same as feminism.

In fact, the MRM does better than feminism on some issues, it's decided that female on female domestic abuse and rape is an issue it's prepared to champion, since feminism seems to refuse to hold women accountable.

I believe that is just a small, radical part of "feminism" that doesn't actually deserve to be called that way.

[Gnork]

Hey - I'm all for stopping everything when she says no, but this is just humbug. A verbal response should not be too much to ask.

Body language indicating unwillingness isn't hard to read either.

Body language is a matter of interpretation, a clear verbal statement is not... why the fuck can it not be expected to say a single fucking word?!

[Prussia-Steinbach]

"Two weeks ago, my gentle and loving boyfriend of three months held me down and forced me to have sex with him against my will... "

End of story. He raped her.

Very nice use of ellipsis to remove relevant context. Well done let provide the rest of it for you.

"...and then told me I had asked for it. And technically, he was right."

But it was against her will at the time. Rape. Flat out. Blatant. Rape.