Feminism in decline

[Des-Bal]

Feminism ignores but NOT diminishes males' problems.
Would you prefer that women would keep care of males' problems? Really? And why we should waste our energy?
Males have dominated the world for so long, and are still dominating it.
Why the oppressed gender should keep care of the problems of the dominant gender? That's ludicrous!

You are totally incapable of viewing yourself as a person and no amount of facts can pierce your dogmatic exoskeleton. It is accepted as a matter of course that you're wrong so I'm not worried about pointing out your flaws to observers and you aren't learning from any of this. As a result I feel no real desire to make a case to you.

[Rostogovia]

Of course men face problems, but unlike women, they face no significant discrimination in society. Nobody's denying that men do face some challenges, but I think we can all agree that being a woman is MUCH harder.

Thank you for saying it.
You're a good ally.

Tanx

[Des-Bal]

Tanx

You missed the subtlety of that comment so I'll point out that you are an "ally" because in Chessmistress' eyes you are not and cannot be a feminist.

[Rostogovia]

Of course men face problems, but unlike women, they face no significant discrimination in society. Nobody's denying that men do face some challenges, but I think we can all agree that being a woman is MUCH harder.

That's not true. Boys and men preform worse in schools due to discrimination, have exceedingly few societal or legal protections against rape and domestic violence, are treated much more severely by the justice system, are more likely to be the victims of almost any crime, and are sent to die en masse. I don't think of having problems as a competition and I don't trouble myself with who has it worse but as I recall the woman who lived as a man for a year was firmly of the opinion that it was easier being a woman.

Rape or domestic violence against men is just as illegal and punishable as when it is committed against woman actually, there's no legal difference. If us men are soo descriminated against, I should think that I would have noticed it. Also, the fact that women are immune to the draft is perfectly justified, and is due to the fact that because of sexual dimorphism women are less capable of combat (purely in physical terms), not because of discrimination.

[Chessmistress]

That's not true. Boys and men preform worse in schools due to discrimination, have exceedingly few societal or legal protections against rape and domestic violence, are treated much more severely by the justice system, are more likely to be the victims of almost any crime, and are sent to die en masse. I don't think of having problems as a competition and I don't trouble myself with who has it worse but as I recall the woman who lived as a man for a year was firmly of the opinion that it was easier being a woman.

Rape or domestic violence against men is just as illegal and punishable as when it is committed against woman actually, there's no legal difference. If us men are soo descriminated against, I should think that I would have noticed it. Also, the fact that women are immune to the draft is perfectly justified, and is due to the fact that because of sexual dimorphism women are less capable of combat (purely in physical terms), not because of discrimination.

And sexual dimorphism is also why there should be a little different approach when it comes at issues like rape, dominant behavior presupponing the use of violence (or at least intimidation).

[Des-Bal]

Rape or domestic violence against men is just as illegal and punishable as when it is committed against woman actually, there's no legal difference. If us men are soo descriminated against, I should think that I would have noticed it. Also, the fact that women are immune to the draft is perfectly justified, and is due to the fact that because of sexual dimorphism women are less capable of combat (purely in physical terms), not because of discrimination.

There's a legal difference in terms of rape. There are many places where it's not treated as rape when a woman has sex with a man against his will. If a male reports he's being abused by a woman he's more likely to be arrested than her. You probably didn't notice because as I just said society doesn't recognize male problems and feminism isn't helping. You're also confused about how the draft works. If you're number is called you're evaluated for if you're fit to serve. Women who couldn't be in the military wouldn't be drafted.

[Periodspace]

I think there are two reasons for this. One, (at least it seems to me that) a lot of feminists (especially the more vocal ones) are really just misandrists and hypocrites, and thus most people do not want to be associated with the movement. Two, women's rights is just not the social justice issue of the time. People are just more concerned with LGBT rights than women's rights these days.

[Haktiva]

I think there are two reasons for this. One, (at least it seems to me that) a lot of feminists (especially the more vocal ones) are really just misandrists and hypocrites, and thus most people do not want to be associated with the movement. Two, women's rights is just not the social justice issue of the time. People are just more concerned with LGBT rights than women's rights these days.

I really do find SJW to be playing "who's the biggest victim?" most of the time.

[Kalmarium]

Ostro, why can't you accept the true definition of feminism? It really does break my heart to see so many people pulled into the false belief that feminism represents oppression of male rights and/or special privileges for females.

So why not call it gender egalitarianism? A simple name change and boom, more people on-board.

[Periodspace]

I think there are two reasons for this. One, (at least it seems to me that) a lot of feminists (especially the more vocal ones) are really just misandrists and hypocrites, and thus most people do not want to be associated with the movement. Two, women's rights is just not the social justice issue of the time. People are just more concerned with LGBT rights than women's rights these days.

I really do find SJW to be playing "who's the biggest victim?" most of the time.

Sure, some people do that, I think the reason for that is they have been living in relatively safe and stable societies where they are in very little danger, and so still seek drama, which they can find in social justice causes.

[Haktiva]

Ostro, why can't you accept the true definition of feminism? It really does break my heart to see so many people pulled into the false belief that feminism represents oppression of male rights and/or special privileges for females.

So why not call it gender egalitarianism? A simple name change and boom, more people on-board.

feminists take a human issue and make it all about women. MRAs are more or less guilty of this too. I say more or less because some call it the Men's Human Rights Movement.

[Kalmarium]

So why not call it gender egalitarianism? A simple name change and boom, more people on-board.

feminists take a human issue and make it all about women. MRAs are more or less guilty of this too. I say more or less because some call it the Men's Human Rights Movement.

There are several issues I have with feminism that I'd love to discuss but will probably be shot down by those specifically in the West.

But my main gripe is the name itself. I can't really follow up onto it when it appears at first sight to be the advancement of women only. Not being a dick, but I really can't relate myself to it when I as a male get excluded (not say they are excluding me, but if it was called gender egalitarianism, I could actually feel included).

People didn't call the Civil Rights movement the "Black People Movement" or "African Americanism."

[Prussia-Steinbach]

I think it's good, the word has become toxic and there's no saving it now. Egalitarians still good for now.

Feminists want equality of the sexes.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

I really do find SJW to be playing "who's the biggest victim?" most of the time.

Maybe because systematic oppression fucking matters in the non-white, non-male, non-privileged world.

[Des-Bal]

Feminists want equality of the sexes.

Some feminists claim to want that but they're actions suggest that's not true.

[The Mediterranean Republic]

people aren't anti-feminist. They don't like femiqaeda. Most americans support real feminism

[Prussia-Steinbach]

Feminists want equality of the sexes.

Some feminists claim to want that but they're actions suggest that's not true.

Incorrect use of "they're" made me cringe.

Also: First of all, note "some." All feminists claim to want equality of the sexes, because that is how one becomes a feminist. And I'd say all of said actions make sense when one believes women are still largely more disadvantaged than men.

[The Mediterranean Republic]

I really do find SJW to be playing "who's the biggest victim?" most of the time.

Maybe because systematic oppression fucking matters in the non-white, non-male, non-privileged world.

PFFFT good one. White privilege I know well. I had the prvilege of being robbed, attacked and not growing up rich. There are women who have it better.

White privilege=fantasy

[Prussia-Steinbach]

people aren't anti-feminist. They don't like femiqaeda. Most americans support real feminism

Please stop comparing people to Al-Qaeda, Nazis, etc. It's unbelievably hyperbolic and inaccurate.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

Maybe because systematic oppression fucking matters in the non-white, non-male, non-privileged world.

PFFFT good one. White privilege I know well. I had the prvilege of being robbed, attacked and not growing up rich. There are women who have it better.

White privilege=fantasy

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/24/opini ... .html?_r=0

http://www.tolerance.org/article/racism ... -privilege

http://occupywallstreet.net/story/expla ... ite-person

Also, "my life sucks so white privilege isn't real HA take that sjws" isn't a valid argument. I'm lower class and in shitloads of legal trouble, but still recognize white privilege.

[Des-Bal]

Incorrect use of "they're" made me cringe.

Also: First of all, note "some." All feminists claim to want equality of the sexes, because that is how one becomes a feminist. And I'd say all of said actions make sense when one believes women are still largely more disadvantaged than men.

No true feminist.

Right, like supporting girls education when they are already ahead of boys in most areas or complaining about the way society handles female victims rape when western governments deny male victims are real victims? Providing more and more services for female victims of domestic violence even though male victims are more common? That's not fighting for equality, it's pursuing privilege.

[Galloism]

I think it's good, the word has become toxic and there's no saving it now. Egalitarians still good for now.

Feminists want equality of the sexes.

So people who fight against equality while paying it lip service, feminists or no?

[Arcaniana]

PFFFT good one. White privilege I know well. I had the prvilege of being robbed, attacked and not growing up rich. There are women who have it better.

White privilege=fantasy

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/24/opini ... .html?_r=0

http://www.tolerance.org/article/racism ... -privilege

http://occupywallstreet.net/story/expla ... ite-person

Also, "my life sucks so white privilege isn't real HA take that sjws" isn't a valid argument. I'm lower class and in shitloads of legal trouble, but still recognize white privilege.

there is a term for what you are doing here and what the articles linked are doing: it is called confirmation bias

[Prussia-Steinbach]

No true feminist.

Basic definitions mean nothing anymore, I see.

Right, like supporting girls education when they are already ahead of boys in most areas or complaining about the way society handles female victims rape when western governments deny male victims are real victims? Providing more and more services for female victims of domestic violence even though male victims are more common? That's not fighting for equality, it's pursuing privilege.

Advocating for things that might turn out badly or be counterproductive doesn't mean you're actively a bad person. Some people genuinely believe the Drug War is the way to deal with drugs.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

there is a word for what you are doing here and what the articles linked are doing: it is called confirmation bias

No. It's called sourcing my argument. It's how you back up your statements in a debate.