Feminism in decline

[Chessmistress]

I'm also from Europe.

That's good, and that's probably why you seems afraid by Convention of Istanbul

Now would be a good time for all you feminists who supposedly care about mens problems to denounce the duluth model, the istanbul convention, and chessmistress.

Yeah, good luck, especially for the first two things...

And so feminists desperately, dogmatically, and even violently resist collecting statistics on male victims. They must perpetuate the male erasure in order to make it seem like women are more victimized than men on this issue, or it will mean these issues aren't caused by patriarchy, and their cash cow will be slaughtered. Women should probably feel some sense of shame or dishonor at the notion that their freedom is being purchased with the lives and bodies of men.

There's no need to be so dramatic.
Also, shaming women doesn't work anymore: it was a patriarchal tool to keep us down.

[Ostroeuropa]

Yeah, good luck, especially for the first two things...

I'm not holding my breath on it.

Your response to the shame thing is interesting.
http://imgur.com/OHaDZV4

You agree with MGTOW extreminists on how women are incapable of fairness?

They use precisely that line of argument "Women have no sense of shame" to explain to MRAs why their cause is doomed, and they should just be misogynists instead, since appealing to womens sense of justice will not work, they do not care if their position exploits, abuses, and kills men, since it serves them personally.

I find it curious you'd advocate this kind of view of women.

When benefiting from an injustice, a sense of shame is the correct response.

[Chessmistress]

Yeah, good luck, especially for the first two things...

I'm not holding my breath on it.

Your response to the shame thing is interesting.
http://imgur.com/OHaDZV4

You agree with MGTOW extreminists on how women are incapable of fairness?

They use precisely that line of argument "Women have no sense of shame" to explain to MRAs why their cause is doomed, and they should just be misogynists instead, since appealing to womens sense of justice will not work, they do not care if their position exploits, abuses, and kills men, since it serves them personally.

I find it curious you'd advocate this kind of view of women.

When benefiting from an injustice, a sense of shame is the correct response.

Fact is that we are repairing an injustice, an historical injustice, an injustice perpetrated through the history.
That will cause some minor collateral damages? It can happen, I don't care. I care about the effect on the whole: true equality, for all.
You cannot shame me for that. You're the one who oppose substantive equality, not me.

Your image is the most misogynistic I have ever see. The only good thing I can say about it is that it attacks MRAs too.

[Ostroeuropa]

I'm not holding my breath on it.

Your response to the shame thing is interesting.
http://imgur.com/OHaDZV4

You agree with MGTOW extreminists on how women are incapable of fairness?

They use precisely that line of argument "Women have no sense of shame" to explain to MRAs why their cause is doomed, and they should just be misogynists instead, since appealing to womens sense of justice will not work, they do not care if their position exploits, abuses, and kills men, since it serves them personally.

I find it curious you'd advocate this kind of view of women.

When benefiting from an injustice, a sense of shame is the correct response.

Fact is that we are repairing an injustice, an historical injustice, an injustice perpetrated through the history.
That will cause some minor collateral damages? It can happen, I don't care. I care about the effect on the whole: true equality, for all.
You cannot shame me for that. You're the one who oppose substantive equality, not me.

Your image is the most misogynistic I have ever see. The only good thing I can say about it is that it attacks MRAs too.

Somehow I doubt anyone believes you. I don't even think you believe you.

As for the most misogynistic image you've ever seen, really? Jeez. I've seen way worse, and i'm not even someone who thinks misogyny is a bigger problem than misandry. I'm pretty sure other people will have seen worse too. It's fairly tame as it goes. It's misogynistic sure, but tame. Though considering some of the shit you've said personally, I think it says a lot about you that THIS is the most misogynistic image you've seen.
You generate more misandry than you've actually seen in misogyny.

[Chessmistress]

Fact is that we are repairing an injustice, an historical injustice, an injustice perpetrated through the history.
That will cause some minor collateral damages? It can happen, I don't care. I care about the effect on the whole: true equality, for all.
You cannot shame me for that. You're the one who oppose substantive equality, not me.

Your image is the most misogynistic I have ever see. The only good thing I can say about it is that it attacks MRAs too.

Somehow I doubt anyone believes you. I don't even think you believe you.

As for the most misogynistic image you've ever seen, really? Jeez. I've seen way worse, and i'm not even someone who thinks misogyny is a bigger problem than misandry. I'm pretty sure other people will have seen worse too. It's fairly tame as it goes. It's misogynistic sure, but tame. Though considering some of the shit you've said personally, I think it says a lot about you that THIS is the most misogynistic image you've seen.
You generate more misandry than you've actually seen in misogyny.

Last part of your image, the part talking about "nature of women", is the most misogynistic concept I have ever read. Really.
Regarding the other part of your post: women's rights are my priority, and also the priority of all other feminists. We are repairing the biggest injustice in history, no more, no less. That's the point. Whining about minor issues and details? I let that to MRAs, hoping they'll stop to blame women for the few parts of the patriarchy oppressing males.

[Galloism]

Somehow I doubt anyone believes you. I don't even think you believe you.

As for the most misogynistic image you've ever seen, really? Jeez. I've seen way worse, and i'm not even someone who thinks misogyny is a bigger problem than misandry. I'm pretty sure other people will have seen worse too. It's fairly tame as it goes. It's misogynistic sure, but tame. Though considering some of the shit you've said personally, I think it says a lot about you that THIS is the most misogynistic image you've seen.
You generate more misandry than you've actually seen in misogyny.

Last part of your image, the part talking about "nature of women", is the most misogynistic concept I have ever read. Really.
Regarding the other part of your post: women's rights are my priority, and also the priority of all other feminists. We are repairing the biggest injustice in history, no more, no less. That's the point. Whining about minor issues and details? I let that to MRAs, hoping they'll stop to blame women for the few parts of the patriarchy oppressing males.

Ok, massive injustices have been done against women historically, but biggest in history?

Surely that must belong to black people who were literally enslaved and forced to perform hard labor until death and continue to suffer economically, socially, and judicially due to the color of their skin.

[Conserative Morality]

Ok, massive injustices have been done against women historically, but biggest in history?

Surely that must belong to black people who were literally enslaved and forced to perform hard labor until death and continue to suffer economically, socially, and judicially due to the color of their skin.

Or to any number of groups who had genocide successfully perpetrated against them.

That's the problem when people try to make it into a suffering contest - even if you win, you lose.

[Des-Bal]

Or to any number of groups who had genocide successfully perpetrated against them.

That's the problem when people try to make it into a suffering contest - even if you win, you lose.

I think "suffering is not a contest" is a nice general thought that should shape feminist discourse.

[Natapoc]

Clearly, this is terribly destructive and terrible for women.
(I would actually slightly agree with chess mistress here. Once men stop being forced into masculine gender roles because they no longer care about womens opinion, womens situation will dramatically worsen without workhorses and personal bodyguards. But it will be fair.)

I've never understood how you think what you describe is reality. Men are not used as work horses or personal body guards of women.

Also if you think that men are women personal body guards... what are men personal body guards against? Other women?

[Natapoc]

https://archive.is/y9dFf

Take a look at this shit.




Normalization of violence against men. All this violence against women rhetoric is just an expression of misandrist values that are present in society.

The normalization of violence against men and the taboo nature of violence against women is crystalized in that one sentence.
The New York Post thinks that killing women is qualitatively worse than killing men. This is a sentiment shared by our society in general.

But no, what misandry, where.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/14/middleeas ... sis-damon/
http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/11/opinions/ ... ent-women/
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news ... qi-4857970
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... rison.html
http://www.ibtimes.com/isis-give-away-s ... an-1982585

Man, ISIL really is misandrist, am I right?

All this really shows how the MRA's approach to reality makes any kind of productive discussion almost impossible.

When the first reaction to news of a woman being beheaded is MISANDRY! There is really no reasoning with that. Calling an extremist islamist group terrorist group known for their extreme and violent misogyny misandrist indicates a level of distance from reality that is impossible to cross.

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

All this really shows how the MRA's approach to reality makes any kind of productive discussion almost impossible.

When the first reaction to news of a woman being beheaded is MISANDRY! There is really no reasoning with that. Calling an extremist islamist group terrorist group known for their extreme and violent misogyny misandrist indicates a level of distance from reality that is impossible to cross.

Are you actually reading his posts?

He's calling the news organization that wrote the headline misandrist, not necessarily ISIS.

The news organization that treats the murder of women as a more despicable crime than the murder of men, showing that they consider men to be less valuable and more disposable than women.

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

I've never understood how you think what you describe is reality. Men are not used as work horses or personal body guards of women.

Also if you think that men are women personal body guards... what are men personal body guards against? Other women?

Other men, who have been conditioned to believe that they must be violent to secure their own self-worth.

[Chessmistress]

Clearly, this is terribly destructive and terrible for women.
(I would actually slightly agree with chess mistress here. Once men stop being forced into masculine gender roles because they no longer care about womens opinion, womens situation will dramatically worsen without workhorses and personal bodyguards. But it will be fair.)

I've never understood how you think what you describe is reality. Men are not used as work horses or personal body guards of women.

Also if you think that men are women personal body guards... what are men personal body guards against? Other women?

The idea that males could be the "work horses" of women is ludicrous and totally detached from reality: WOMEN always have been the slaves of males, through the history.
I would instead slightly agree about the fact of "personal body guards", but that raises an issue, perfectly highlighted by Natapoc: males have been both the threats and the body guards for women. Males created the same problem (to women) that males partially cured. And women must have been even grateful to them for such "protection"! That's a scam, an horrible scam just meant to exploit women even more!
That's why I advocate separatism, at least sperimentally and limited: no males harassing and abusing you, no need of males protecting you from harassmente and abuses coming from other males. No fear, and also stop "being grateful" to males for...partially repairing a damage done by males...

[Haktiva]

Do you think that Ostro's goal is to preserve the patriarchal system?

It is part of the patriarchal system that women are to be protected from violence, and he is pointing out how the media engages in that. He is helping tear down the Patriarchy.

Are you really suggesting that women shouldn't be protected from violence?
I think women should be protected even more!

they should protect themselves

[Fartsniffage]

Are you really suggesting that women shouldn't be protected from violence?
I think women should be protected even more!

they should protect themselves

What do you think the efforts of feminism have been for? That's women protecting themselves.

[Kvatchdom]

Every person should be taught basic self-defense, and be taught the line where self-defense is crossed.

[Benian Republic]

Every person should be taught basic self-defense, and be taught the line where self-defense is crossed.

There should be no line when it comes to self defense.

[Kvatchdom]

Every person should be taught basic self-defense, and be taught the line where self-defense is crossed.

There should be no line when it comes to self defense.

Someone stealing your wallet does not give you the right to bash their skulls in. There is always a line.

[Benian Republic]

There should be no line when it comes to self defense.

Someone stealing your wallet does not give you the right to bash their skulls in. There is always a line.

I would like to disagree with you on that. People would think twice about stealing if it was allowed.

[Ostroeuropa]

All this really shows how the MRA's approach to reality makes any kind of productive discussion almost impossible.

When the first reaction to news of a woman being beheaded is MISANDRY! There is really no reasoning with that. Calling an extremist islamist group terrorist group known for their extreme and violent misogyny misandrist indicates a level of distance from reality that is impossible to cross.

Are you actually reading his posts?

He's calling the news organization that wrote the headline misandrist, not necessarily ISIS.

The news organization that treats the murder of women as a more despicable crime than the murder of men, showing that they consider men to be less valuable and more disposable than women.

Thankyou.

[Donut section]

Someone stealing your wallet does not give you the right to bash their skulls in. There is always a line.

I would like to disagree with you on that. People would think twice about stealing if it was allowed.

No, they would just shoot you/bash your skull in, then steal your wallet.

[Borusenfront]

I think females are on average more inteligent than man, but this also has nothing to do with feminism witch is a flawed ideology.

[Chessmistress]

I think females are on average more inteligent than man, but this also has nothing to do with feminism witch is a flawed ideology.

Two affirmations really conflicting each other.
Cognitive dissonance, much?

[Des-Bal]

I would like to disagree with you on that. People would think twice about stealing if it was allowed.

No they wouldn't. The fact that they wouldn't is the entire reason we have laws. The purpose of self-defense is to prevent harm and inflicting harm greater than you were threatened with is not self-defense.

[Natapoc]

I think females are on average more inteligent than man, but this also has nothing to do with feminism witch is a flawed ideology.

Two affirmations really conflicting each other.
Cognitive dissonance, much?

Why would it be Cognitive dissonance?

If one believes that females are on average more intelligent than males than they may very well be anti feminist on the grounds that equality would simply bring society down to the level of men. People who believe that men are biologically inferior to women are often anti feminist.