The NationStates Feminist Thread

[USS Monitor]

It seems MRAs have some power, right?

Some, yes. Laws still leftover from when feminists were zealously assuming that simply demanding equality was what they wanted can be leveraged by MRAs who aren't as blinded by gynocentrism as those feminists were and understand men have issues too.

That's why feminists are pissing themselves and running around to rig the laws in womens favor and against equality. An example was when Labour in the UK had to scrap the equality act and pass a new one that allowed them to discriminate against men with all women short lists.

In areas feminists haven't managed to cover up their predecessors mistakes from actually believing in feminist rhetoric, the MRM can force action through raising funds.

What makes you think older antidiscrimination laws pushed by feminists were mistakes? I think the feminists who pushed those laws knew what they were doing and wanted them to be egalitarian.

If the younger generation are pushing for different things, it's because they are not the same people and do not have the same goals.

[USS Monitor]

Yeah, man, if you kill all white men, I won't have any officers. That is not funny. My officers are good men.

No women or racial minorities among your officers? Looks we're going to have to board your ship and enact workplace diversity quotas.

I have black men in my crew.

[Ostroeuropa]

Some, yes. Laws still leftover from when feminists were zealously assuming that simply demanding equality was what they wanted can be leveraged by MRAs who aren't as blinded by gynocentrism as those feminists were and understand men have issues too.

That's why feminists are pissing themselves and running around to rig the laws in womens favor and against equality. An example was when Labour in the UK had to scrap the equality act and pass a new one that allowed them to discriminate against men with all women short lists.

In areas feminists haven't managed to cover up their predecessors mistakes from actually believing in feminist rhetoric, the MRM can force action through raising funds.

What makes you think older antidiscrimination laws pushed by feminists were mistakes? I think the feminists who pushed those laws knew what they were doing and wanted them to be egalitarian.

If the younger generation are pushing for different things, it's because they are not the same people and do not have the same goals.

Because those earlier feminists are also the same fuckwits who wrote all this utter gynocentric nonsense about men not having problems.
It's clear that when they passed those laws they assumed only women would benefit.
Because they were stupid. Because they were ultra zealous. Because they were self-centered and had no empathy for men. Because their brains had been riddled with nonsense.
It's just that the only people fighting them were similarly riddled with utter bullshit in the form of uber conservative 1940s style religious traditionalism, so they couldn't point this shit out.
It was a fight of delusional zealot versus delusional zealot, and the delusional won, it should be no surprise.

Now that it's emerged those laws can be used to target female privilege, because HI! Fucking reality! Not feminist """"Intellectual"""" masturbation. So newer feminists are tripping over themselves in a mad rush to fix it because of their weird religious cult and it's beliefs about how ONLY WIMMINZ suffer.

The double-think is plain for all to see.

If that's the case, then why are you changing the laws? etc.

It's because they don't believe in feminism anymore.
What they want is for feminism to be enforced on society. They don't believe it actually reflects reality. They are just in love with the narrative.
It's not about fixing shit. It's about faith, and being a member of the communion. It's a fucking cult. Nothing more.

This wave aren't necessarily idiots. Indoctrination is a powerful thing.

These days we've got institutions blaring over and over at everyone the feminist narrative. These days, people have more of an excuse.

[Mialla]

If that's the case, then why are you changing the laws? etc.

It's because they don't believe in feminism anymore.
What they want is for feminism to be enforced on society. They don't believe it actually reflects reality. They are just in love with the narrative.
It's not about fixing shit. It's about faith, and being a member of the communion. It's a fucking cult. Nothing more.

This wave aren't necessarily idiots. Indoctrination is a powerful thing.

These days we've got institutions blaring over and over at everyone the feminist narrative. These days, people have more of an excuse.

What? Laws are changing? Where?
Institutions blaring over and over at everyone the feminist narrative? Where? When?
I fail to see these things happening.
Sadly.
A truly Feminist society would be far better.

[Galloism]

If that's the case, then why are you changing the laws? etc.

It's because they don't believe in feminism anymore.
What they want is for feminism to be enforced on society. They don't believe it actually reflects reality. They are just in love with the narrative.
It's not about fixing shit. It's about faith, and being a member of the communion. It's a fucking cult. Nothing more.

This wave aren't necessarily idiots. Indoctrination is a powerful thing.

These days we've got institutions blaring over and over at everyone the feminist narrative. These days, people have more of an excuse.

What? Laws are changing? Where?
Institutions blaring over and over at everyone the feminist narrative? Where? When?
I fail to see these things happening.
Sadly.
A truly Feminist society would be far better.

Only if it were actually based on real principles of equality, not the sexist bullshite you believe.

[USS Monitor]

What makes you think older antidiscrimination laws pushed by feminists were mistakes? I think the feminists who pushed those laws knew what they were doing and wanted them to be egalitarian.

If the younger generation are pushing for different things, it's because they are not the same people and do not have the same goals.

Because those earlier feminists are also the same fuckwits who wrote all this utter gynocentric nonsense about men not having problems.
It's clear that when they passed those laws they assumed only women would benefit.
Because they were stupid. Because they were ultra zealous. Because they were self-centered and had no empathy for men. Because their brains had been riddled with nonsense.
It's just that the only people fighting them were similarly riddled with utter bullshit in the form of uber conservative 1940s style religious traditionalism, so they couldn't point this shit out.
It was a fight of delusional zealot versus delusional zealot, and the delusional won, it should be no surprise.

Now that it's emerged those laws can be used to target female privilege, because HI! Fucking reality! Not feminist """"Intellectual"""" masturbation. So newer feminists are tripping over themselves in a mad rush to fix it because of their weird religious cult and it's beliefs about how ONLY WIMMINZ suffer.

The double-think is plain for all to see.

If that's the case, then why are you changing the laws? etc.

I'm not.

And it's generally not the same people who got the laws passed in the first place that are pushing to get them changed. So what makes you think the people who got them passed in the first place are not happy with the results? Feminism hasn't always been women forcing our way into men's spaces and then keeping our own spaces to ourselves. When colleges started going coed in response to pressure from feminists, there were women's colleges that opened up to men as well as men's colleges opening up to women. (I know there are still a few segregated schools, but much less than there used to be.) That stuff they were saying about men having all the advantages? It's a perception based on the male-dominated society they grew up in. It made much more sense back then than it does now.

The loopy radical fringe has been around for a while, but sane feminists have been around longer. I don't think too many bra-burning nutcakes actually made their way into the legislatures to write the laws themselves, so there's no reason to generalize that the people pushing antidiscrimination laws were "ultra zealous." Plenty of more moderate people were behind it as well. Plenty of them genuinely wanted equality. And now that we have a more egalitarian society, plenty of them have settled down and are not screaming for more changes.

It's because they don't believe in feminism anymore.
What they want is for feminism to be enforced on society. They don't believe it actually reflects reality. They are just in love with the narrative.
It's not about fixing shit. It's about faith, and being a member of the communion. It's a fucking cult. Nothing more.

This wave aren't necessarily idiots. Indoctrination is a powerful thing.

These days we've got institutions blaring over and over at everyone the feminist narrative. These days, people have more of an excuse.

No, people now have much less of an excuse. Women's situation has improved, but they are whining as if they were still oppressed to the same extent as 50 or 100 years ago. They are still making a lot of the same complaints. The difference is that 50 years ago the complaints were much more accurate.

[USS Monitor]

What? Laws are changing? Where?
Institutions blaring over and over at everyone the feminist narrative? Where? When?
I fail to see these things happening.
Sadly.
A truly Feminist society would be far better.

Only if it were actually based on real principles of equality, not the sexist bullshite you believe.

^This.

[Risottia]

No women or racial minorities among your officers? Looks we're going to have to board your ship and enact workplace diversity quotas.

I have black men in my crew.

You gotta admit you don't want them to break the glasssteel ceiling.

[USS Monitor]

I have black men in my crew.

You gotta admit you don't want them to break the glasssteel ceiling.

Why do you think I have metal plates to cover the skylights? Glass would be too easy to break.

But all joking aside, there were a couple of black guys who served aboard the Monitor. The guy in the lower right on my flag is black.

[Hirota]

I'm opposed to a diversity officer excluding one demographic. A diversity officer should be inclusive, and you don't accomplish that being excluding people. On that basis she isn't doing her job and shouldn't have been allowed to continue in the role.

Having said that, I don't think she should have been charged with committing an actual crime, and I support the principle of free speech, even if that includes the speech of hateful bigots such as Mustafa. Evidence of their incredible stupidity in the public domain is punishment enough.

[Ostroeuropa]

Feminists ban another mens rights club on another campus from operating.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/com ... t_down_by/

[Ostroeuropa]

The loopy radical fringe has been around for a while, but sane feminists have been around longer. I don't think too many bra-burning nutcakes actually made their way into the legislatures to write the laws themselves, so there's no reason to generalize that the people pushing antidiscrimination laws were "ultra zealous." Plenty of more moderate people were behind it as well. Plenty of them genuinely wanted equality. And now that we have a more egalitarian society, plenty of them have settled down and are not screaming for more changes.

Yeh but see, that's just not true. They did comparatively nothing to help men.

Like I said.
People with no empathy for men who thought the world revolved around their vaginas.
The fuckwits who wrote the gynocentric drivel that people are indoctrinated with today.

They didn't go out, achieve equality, then sit down. The fact they thought this was equality is the whole problem i'm talking about.

They went out and achieved womens supremacy then sat down. They did this because they zealously believed in their cultish interpretation of reality.
Facts have never been a friend to feminism.

[USS Monitor]

Feminists ban another mens rights club on another campus from operating.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/com ... t_down_by/

Not going to comment on that without hearing the school's side of the story.

[Ostroeuropa]

Feminists ban another mens rights club on another campus from operating.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/com ... t_down_by/

Not going to comment on that without hearing the school's side of the story.

They routinely do it.

Mens rights durham was banned from receiving funding. They decided to operate anyway and point out this systemic corruption by feminism to their members and the student body.

It's purely because feminists control the institution and any narrative counter to feminism is deemed misogynistic.

[USS Monitor]

The loopy radical fringe has been around for a while, but sane feminists have been around longer. I don't think too many bra-burning nutcakes actually made their way into the legislatures to write the laws themselves, so there's no reason to generalize that the people pushing antidiscrimination laws were "ultra zealous." Plenty of more moderate people were behind it as well. Plenty of them genuinely wanted equality. And now that we have a more egalitarian society, plenty of them have settled down and are not screaming for more changes.

Yeh but see, that's just not true. They did comparatively nothing to help men.

Like I said.
People with no empathy for men who thought the world revolved around their vaginas.
The fuckwits who wrote the gynocentric drivel that people are indoctrinated with today.

They didn't go out, achieve equality, then sit down. The fact they thought this was equality is the whole problem i'm talking about.

They went out and achieved womens supremacy then sat down. They did this because they zealously believed in their cultish interpretation of reality.
Facts have never been a friend to feminism.

What we have now is not women's supremacy. Most leadership positions are still held by men.

What we have is not perfect equality, but it's much more balanced than what we had 50 years ago. Cleaning up the remaining problems is going to require reexamining some of the expectations placed on men, but it's a huge leap to go from "there are some problems that affect men" to "we live in a female-supremacist society."

[USS Monitor]

Not going to comment on that without hearing the school's side of the story.

They routinely do it.

Mens rights durham was banned from receiving funding. They decided to operate anyway and point out this systemic corruption by feminism to their members and the student body.

It's purely because feminists control the institution and any narrative counter to feminism is deemed misogynistic.

Your source is biased and so are you. Judging by the poster they linked a picture of, there may have been an issue with their tone rather than a general objection to having a men's rights group. Having the school's side of the story would help to clarify what the issue was.

[Hirota]

They routinely do it.

Mens rights durham was banned from receiving funding. They decided to operate anyway and point out this systemic corruption by feminism to their members and the student body.

It's purely because feminists control the institution and any narrative counter to feminism is deemed misogynistic.

Your source is biased and so are you. Judging by the poster they linked a picture of, there may have been an issue with their tone rather than a general objection to having a men's rights group. Having the school's side of the story would help to clarify what the issue was.

You're right, in this instance it might not be an objection to the principle of a mens rights group but to it's tone. However, Ostro is also correct in pointing out that mens rights or egalitarian groups are repeatedlyharassed and repressed by feminist groups.

Although feminists also protest all sorts of shit for "reasons," so I suppose there is that.

[Hirota]

Continuing to demonstrate this "yes means yes" college nonsense is unsustainable: https://reason.com/blog/2015/08/12/stud ... r-rape-tri

[Fin Dovah Junaar]

I can't believe I used to support feminism actually.

Makes me feel sick in a way for some of the shit I ate up, not as bad as Christan but still, feel bad about it.

[New Benian Republic]

Continuing to demonstrate this "yes means yes" college nonsense is unsustainable: https://reason.com/blog/2015/08/12/stud ... r-rape-tri

A link from that link said students in Florida colleges must sign papers to have sex with eachother I think...

[New Benian Republic]

I can't believe I used to support feminism actually.

Makes me feel sick in a way for some of the shit I ate up, not as bad as Christan but still, feel bad about it.

I know the feeling I was borderline nazish for a little bit I feel like.

[Hirota]

Continuing to demonstrate this "yes means yes" college nonsense is unsustainable: https://reason.com/blog/2015/08/12/stud ... r-rape-tri

A link from that link said students in Florida colleges must sign papers to have sex with eachother I think...

Several people have pointed out in this thread that video evidence is soon going to be required to protect students from these wrongful expulsions. I can imagine the puritanical radfems triggering over the revelation they have helped create amateur pornographers.

[New Benian Republic]

A link from that link said students in Florida colleges must sign papers to have sex with eachother I think...

Several people have pointed out in this thread that video evidence is soon going to be required to protect students from these wrongful expulsions. I can imagine the puritanical radfems triggering over the revelation they have helped create amateur pornographers.

Was it serious though, and only in their college?

[Ostroeuropa]

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/com ... /?sort=top

And comments worth a read.

We can see this is a popular thread intersecting with other parts of the manosphere, which sometimes pop in to the MRM reddit.

Red Pill, you fools.

Part of Red Pill is recognizing that the situation is already past saving.

I fought for over 15 years, and accomplished nothing but raising my blood pressure and becoming disgusted with humanity. It's fucking useless. I'm fairly convinced Feminism is going to be on the "out" in the next several years, maybe faster if more people fight, but it doesn't matter because women will just demand all the same shit and pathetic men will give it to them.
If you want to have a miserable life, by all means follow in my footsteps.

You need to realize that feminism is a manifestation of female nature combined with left-wing politics. Even if you fight back and have some success it will simply change form and women will demand all the same bullshit. Men are alreadY second class citizens, unless they have money, stay unmarried, and don't get tangled up with women. Then they are at the top of the food chain. That is my goal now. Not fighting a losing battle for ungrateful men.

These are the intersection of TRP and MGTOW sentiments. As I've previously argued, they are the result of an MRA losing faith in humanity in general due to the persistent refusal to adhere to the message.

Compare to an actual MRA:

IMO there are three parallel lines of attack, none of which are directly political:
The courts. Make gynocentrists bleed money. Lots of it. Kick men out of school without due process? Sue them. Set up women only subsidies and businesses? Sue them. Let women into combat duty? Sue to make women draftable. The resources required are relatively small, compared to the impact.
Social science. The social sciences are on the brink of becoming more rigorous as big data and statistical computing power become more accessible, and newer researchers are more mathematically competent. The current bullshit gender studies "research" will become more and more detached from reality and ridiculous, making it easier to debunk by serious academics. The recent crisis in psychology research is a paradigm of this. Debunking feminist crap may present a ripe target for a few ambitious young researchers.
Popular culture. The elites may all be feminists, but the common citizen is not. The trendsetting younger demographic groups are less and less likely to be married and the balance of power may eventually shift more manwards as educated women are forced to "marry down." There is already some movement on alimony law due to this.
Incidentally, this is exactly how gay rights moved forwards.

See the difference?

(The movement on alimony now that it's beginning to harm women, by the way, is one of the issues that informs the "Women are just selfish parasites and that explains everything we are seeing." mentality of burned out MRAs who turn into MGTOW radicals and start saying the MRM is a futile effort. They stop being MRAs as a result of this.)

This. 100 percent. This isn't just a debate, this is a war. A war that we need to do whatever it takes to win.

My sentiments.

Every day, right in front of us, we are watching the methodical construction of a world where men will be second class citizens. We are involved one way or the other, but if everyone leaves the fight to someone else, we will lose. I want to at least know I tried.

And the MGTOW/TRP radical response:

Nah. Let it burn.

This. Let it burn. I'm done.

I don't necessarily advocate for the fall of the West. I'm just perceptive enough to realize it's already happened, and we are witnessing its slow decline into oblivion. I'm not so certain that's such a bad thing anymore, given how decadent the West has become. Of course another civilization will take its place (if we are prepared), but like the Europe that rose after the Fall of Rome, it could take hundreds if not thousands of years, preceded by a Dark Age. And what's to say the civilization that takes it's place won't be an Islamic Caliphate? Or a Chinese global hegemony? In case you haven't noticed, Europe is burning. Nero fiddled; now he watches internet porn. Feminism is a symptom of this collapse, and though it is only a facet, it is, unlike your characterization of it, a monolithic tenet of Western governance. You seem quite certain that an "apocalypse" can't happen here. Your faith in your betters in power is misplaced, but I wish I still possessed an iota of your trust in them. Get prepared.

In TRP and MGTOW philosophy, the situation will become dire enough that society simply collapses in one fashion or another, because these people (feminists) have no idea what the fuck they are actually doing.

It's an informative thread for understanding the key differences between the three camps, what causes MGTOW and TRP radicals to emerge, etc.

When you see someone on the internet arguing that women are inherently parasitic, selfish, and inconsiderate, now you know why.

It's my hope that MRM progress when it manifests will detoxify these individuals and bring them back to the front.

In this respect, the MRM has LESS OF A RADICAL PROBLEM than feminists. Because radical MRAs check out of the movement before hating women.

Feminists don't.

It's extremely difficult to find a radical MRA who advocates for sexist shit. The tenor of Androcentric sexism is isolationism, not activism.

This fits in fucking PERFECTLY with this study:

http://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v33/n ... 1533a.html

(Males express learned helplessness. Females do not.)

And that is why you can all shut up with your insistence that the MRM has just a bad a radical problem with feminism. No it doesn't. Our radicals sit there, waiting for the world to end so they can stop being in pain. Whats more, they fucking quit the movement.

Yours go out and fuck over society.

This is also why our radicals will never attain institutional power. Yours do.

[New Larthinia]

I like how feminists are getting more toxic as days pass. It's really nice.