The NationStates Feminist Thread

[Traditional Heavy Metal]

This is the problem. Some feminists say that men should go as far as to call themselves feminists, other feminists completely oppose it. I'd like an answer - what should I, a man, do to support non-radical, non-TERF feminists?

You can call yourself a feminist if you want. Some guys do, and it's not a problem.

That kinda brings in the whole "do men or even people in general want to identify as a group, regardless of what it is". Some men, will, some won't, it's most likely a personality thing, or even the society-based stereotypes of these groups, and the want to not become associated with these conceptions.

Men can be feminists. I'm a Marxist feminist because I uphold the majority of the characteristics and ideas it takes to become a Marxist feminist. Besides, Engles' very existence smashes any illusion that men cannot indeed develop or actively be anything more than allies. They may have just as much capabilities as women. Feminists are and should be allied with non-misogynistic men's rights groups. These groups are Marxists and left-wingers generally. Honestly, it's like you live in a shell. If you're for equality of genders, then you're for the full equality of all or no genders, end of.

You can to show your support join an appropriate political party or pressure group, or even start one. Why be an armchair activist complaining, when you could start a revolution? Radical feminists I doubt even have a political party. That would be easier to counter if you wish.

[Traditional Heavy Metal]

Ain't that already free?

No it's not a medical necessity and because you can get it for free from other sources...

I think they're free where I live (UK).
IVF is being made private though, that's fucking horrible.

[Aelex]

I think they're free where I live (UK).
IVF is being made private though, that's fucking horrible.

Yeah, it's free in france too. As are any IVF. Best healtcare of the world ftw! (*•̀ᴗ•́*)و ̑̑

[The Alexanderians]

I think they're free where I live (UK).
IVF is being made private though, that's fucking horrible.

Yeah, it's free in france too. As are any IVF. Best healtcare of the world ftw! (*•̀ᴗ•́*)و ̑̑

I find that hard to believe given France's atrocious treatment and refusal to properly treat ASD and related spectrum disorders. Though that may be covered under human rights and/or education instead so...

[Aelex]

I find that hard to believe given France's atrocious treatment and refusal to properly treat ASD and related spectrum disorders. Though that may be covered under human rights and/or education instead so...

It is.
An for the autism, it come from the fact that our psychiatres/psychologues are stuck with Freud's theory.

[The Alexanderians]

I find that hard to believe given France's atrocious treatment and refusal to properly treat ASD and related spectrum disorders. Though that may be covered under human rights and/or education instead so...

It is.
An for the autism, it come from the fact that our psychiatrist/psychologues are stuck with Freud's theory.

I said if it counts under healthcare (like in the US it counts as both a healthcare and an educational issue) I'd find it hard to believe. If it doesn't is seems more pleasurable but still makes me ask for a source. The psychiatrists (the fuck is a psychologues?) have more problems then just Freud's theories. The education system is more at fault to begin with either way.

[Aelex]

I said if it counts under healthcare (like in the US it counts as both a healthcare and an educational issue) I'd find it hard to believe. If it doesn't is seems more pleasurable but still makes me ask for a source. The psychiatrists (the fuck is a psychologues?) have more problems then just Freud's theories. The education system is more at fault to begin with either way.

Psychologue (I guess you say psychologist) are stuck in the XX century. And for the education, don't joke with me; it's way better than the U.S's one no matter which criteria you select.

[The Alexanderians]

I said if it counts under healthcare (like in the US it counts as both a healthcare and an educational issue) I'd find it hard to believe. If it doesn't is seems more pleasurable but still makes me ask for a source. The psychiatrists (the fuck is a psychologues?) have more problems then just Freud's theories. The education system is more at fault to begin with either way.

Psychologue (I guess you say psychologist) are stuck in the XX century. And for the education, don't joke with me; it's way better than the U.S's one no matter which criteria you select.

I wasn't comparing the education systems before I was making a different comparison but if you want to go that way let's. France has an atrocious school system in regards to anyone that doesn't fit in to it's very narrow roles of acceptability. From outright refusing to educate ASD students to using "treatments" that would border on inhumane torture in other contexts. If lived in France I would have been kick out of school in the french equivalent of the 5th grade and then I would have been ostracized out of practically every job. This is some negligence on part of the government, this is the God Damn M.O. BTW when it comes to ASD treatment and education guess who's at the top of the list? that's right America! America is up there right next to Canada. So unless the french we're talking about is French Canadian you have no case.

http://thinkingmomsrevolution.com/exclusive-education-autism-treated-france/
http://www.autismeurope.org/publications/newsletter-subscribe/newsletter-56-2014/the-council-of-europe-condemns-france-for-discrimination-against-people-with-autism-in-education-2.html
http://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=15787
http://wrongplanet.net/exclusive-watch-the-banned-french-autism-psychoanalysis-film-the-wall/

I realize we are getting off track this is the feminism thread not an autism or education or a France human rights thread so let's end this here or continue it in a relevant thread.

[Gravlen]

I have to agree.
I have been accused to "throwing women under the bus" for saying men have it worse when it comes at suicides and deaths on workplace. Sometimes who negate that are the very same persons who say "we take care of males' issues too".
I'm honest: males' suicides and males' deaths on workplace are not my issue as feminist (again: check the definition), and I'm sure these issues will be fixed when the patriarchy will go away. Until then, males should deal with their issues: males, not feminists - males cannot be feminists, just only allies. And feminists should be alies of a non-misogynistic males' rights movement (sadly, it do not exists).

This is the problem. Some feminists say that men should go as far as to call themselves feminists, other feminists completely oppose it. I'd like an answer - what should I, a man, do to support non-radical, non-TERF feminists?

I'm not sure why this is a problem. Why does the labels matter? You can support the fight for gender equality in deeds and words regardless of the fact that some people will choose to call you a feminist and others will choose not to.

[New Edom]

This is the problem. Some feminists say that men should go as far as to call themselves feminists, other feminists completely oppose it. I'd like an answer - what should I, a man, do to support non-radical, non-TERF feminists?

I'm not sure why this is a problem. Why does the labels matter? You can support the fight for gender equality in deeds and words regardless of the fact that some people will choose to call you a feminist and others will choose not to.

It's a problem because it has become a political and social battleground. You cannot have both wide spread calls for support for feminism on the one hand and not have it matter to people on the other. The issues are not presented as being about the particular issues but as part of a general push for women's rights. Men's rights by contrast are presented by feminists and their supporters as being based on the notion that men generally have it alright but just need to give up some privilege and pride.

People often identify as parts of groups. We know this. This is why fashions become popular. Identifying entirely as an individual is actually rather challenging.

[Ostroeuropa]

Just occurred to me that this shit is nothing new for the left wing.

Feminism is the modern "Communism." It's split the left wing and driven a lot of liberal minded people into the arms of the right wing out of fear for the authoritarianism of the left.
It's actively censorious and demands ideological purity. It has show trials and trials by media.
You've got a bunch of communists and sympathizers walking around insisting that communism isn't so bad and the USSR must be an awesome place, because communism. (Ignoring that any institution that embraces their ideology at the time is fucking authoritarian as shit, power hungry, sociopathic, and an enemy to equality and free civilization.)
You've got others waffling about how it isn't real communism and derailing the discussion from the massive threat to our liberty, we'll discuss that later when these people are dealt with, we need to be talking about how to stop them, not arguing over their title.
And then you've got the ones actually driving the beast.

And meanwhile, it's slowly expanding and taking over. But instead of it occuring abroad, country by country, and all of a sudden, it's an insidious creep from institutions and from a chilling effect on our culture. The communists are in paris.

Feminism is an enemy of free civilization. It is only an ally of powerful institutions, and people who are in control of those institutions. Like communism, All claims that come forth from these people professing otherwise are either ill informed, or self-serving lies.
It is not a coincidence that the "communist" and the "feminist" establishments turn on the skeptical community eventual. It is not a coincidence that they reject science that goes against their ideology instead of altering their ideology.
They use the same tactics, of aggressive personal attacks and disparagement of character, propaganda and control of the media.
It's totalitarianism in a dress. They've pulled it off this time because of societal gynocentrism.
Nobody powerful gives a fuck about the poor.
But oh, the women are in trouble? I guess we'll help them out.

Maybe feminists should realize they are the pro-USSR left. History will not look kindly on you. You may have control over left wing politics for now, but that will change when you start to consistently fail to win elections because the anti-feminist and moderate left wing balk at the notion of voting for you. All you have accomplished is being a delay on the path to equality. The conservatives will do their job, and they will keep society in stasis and prevent you from infecting it with shit policies. We may not get progress done, but there will be stasis at least, until you give up and let the egalitarians have a try.

viewtopic.php?p=24890714#p24890714

Also that.

[New Edom]

Just occurred to me that this shit is nothing new for the left wing.

Feminism is the modern "Communism." It's split the left wing and driven a lot of liberal minded people into the arms of the right wing out of fear for the authoritarianism of the left.
It's actively censorious and demands ideological purity. It has show trials and trials by media.
You've got a bunch of communists and sympathizers walking around insisting that communism isn't so bad and the USSR must be an awesome place, because communism. (Ignoring that any institution that embraces their ideology at the time is fucking authoritarian as shit, power hungry, sociopathic, and an enemy to equality and free civilization.)
You've got others waffling about how it isn't real communism and derailing the discussion from the massive threat to our liberty, we'll discuss that later when these people are dealt with, we need to be talking about how to stop them, not arguing over their title.
And then you've got the ones actually driving the beast.

And meanwhile, it's slowly expanding and taking over. But instead of it occuring abroad, country by country, and all of a sudden, it's an insidious creep from institutions and from a chilling effect on our culture. The communists are in paris.

Feminism is an enemy of free civilization. It is only an ally of powerful institutions, and people who are in control of those institutions. Like communism, All claims that come forth from these people professing otherwise are either ill informed, or self-serving lies.
It is not a coincidence that the "communist" and the "feminist" establishments turn on the skeptical community eventual. It is not a coincidence that they reject science that goes against their ideology instead of altering their ideology.
They use the same tactics, of aggressive personal attacks and disparagement of character, propaganda and control of the media.
It's totalitarianism in a dress. They've pulled it off this time because of societal gynocentrism.
Nobody powerful gives a fuck about the poor.
But oh, the women are in trouble? I guess we'll help them out.

Maybe feminists should realize they are the pro-USSR left. History will not look kindly on you. You may have control over left wing politics for now, but that will change when you start to consistently fail to win elections because the anti-feminist and moderate left wing balk at the notion of voting for you. All you have accomplished is being a delay on the path to equality. The conservatives will do their job, and they will keep society in stasis and prevent you from infecting it with shit policies. We may not get progress done, but there will be stasis at least, until you give up and let the egalitarians have a try.

viewtopic.php?p=24890714#p24890714

Also that.

What you're saying above is generally true when it comes to the problems of feminism. The problem here is that there are basic ideas contained within feminism--the ideas of equality between men and women, fair treatment of people, laws being applied without unfair prejudice, merit being encouraged, that are essentially good. What is troubling is the consistency of the tactics you mention.

I have yet to see for instance in these discussions genuine fair play on the part of any of the feminists except, curiously, Chessmistress, who is very true to her position regardless of what she is saying. Chessmistress lapses occasionally but it has struck me as being less avoidance/deflecting/dishonesty than not being clear. In a weird way, the radical feminists of that ilk are at least straightforward.

What has become a lot more common is the Emma Watson soft approach, which focuses a lot more on catchphrases, slogans, twitter, and emotional language and avoidance of examination of any content outside of purely feminist and feminist friendly leftist circles.

[Diopolis]

Just occurred to me that this shit is nothing new for the left wing.

Feminism is the modern "Communism." It's split the left wing and driven a lot of liberal minded people into the arms of the right wing out of fear for the authoritarianism of the left.
It's actively censorious and demands ideological purity. It has show trials and trials by media.
You've got a bunch of communists and sympathizers walking around insisting that communism isn't so bad and the USSR must be an awesome place, because communism. (Ignoring that any institution that embraces their ideology at the time is fucking authoritarian as shit, power hungry, sociopathic, and an enemy to equality and free civilization.)
You've got others waffling about how it isn't real communism and derailing the discussion from the massive threat to our liberty, we'll discuss that later when these people are dealt with, we need to be talking about how to stop them, not arguing over their title.
And then you've got the ones actually driving the beast.

And meanwhile, it's slowly expanding and taking over. But instead of it occuring abroad, country by country, and all of a sudden, it's an insidious creep from institutions and from a chilling effect on our culture. The communists are in paris.

Feminism is an enemy of free civilization. It is only an ally of powerful institutions, and people who are in control of those institutions. Like communism, All claims that come forth from these people professing otherwise are either ill informed, or self-serving lies.
It is not a coincidence that the "communist" and the "feminist" establishments turn on the skeptical community eventual. It is not a coincidence that they reject science that goes against their ideology instead of altering their ideology.
They use the same tactics, of aggressive personal attacks and disparagement of character, propaganda and control of the media.
It's totalitarianism in a dress. They've pulled it off this time because of societal gynocentrism.
Nobody powerful gives a fuck about the poor.
But oh, the women are in trouble? I guess we'll help them out.

Maybe feminists should realize they are the pro-USSR left. History will not look kindly on you. You may have control over left wing politics for now, but that will change when you start to consistently fail to win elections because the anti-feminist and moderate left wing balk at the notion of voting for you. All you have accomplished is being a delay on the path to equality. The conservatives will do their job, and they will keep society in stasis and prevent you from infecting it with shit policies. We may not get progress done, but there will be stasis at least, until you give up and let the egalitarians have a try.

https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopi ... #p24890714

Also that.

This is the most paranoid thing I've read on NSG, and that includes this one summer thread I remember by a guy who wanted to privatize water because he was afraid of flouride.

[Nazi Flower Power]

Just occurred to me that this shit is nothing new for the left wing.

Feminism is the modern "Communism." It's split the left wing and driven a lot of liberal minded people into the arms of the right wing out of fear for the authoritarianism of the left.
It's actively censorious and demands ideological purity. It has show trials and trials by media.
You've got a bunch of communists and sympathizers walking around insisting that communism isn't so bad and the USSR must be an awesome place, because communism. (Ignoring that any institution that embraces their ideology at the time is fucking authoritarian as shit, power hungry, sociopathic, and an enemy to equality and free civilization.)
You've got others waffling about how it isn't real communism and derailing the discussion from the massive threat to our liberty, we'll discuss that later when these people are dealt with, we need to be talking about how to stop them, not arguing over their title.
And then you've got the ones actually driving the beast.

And meanwhile, it's slowly expanding and taking over. But instead of it occuring abroad, country by country, and all of a sudden, it's an insidious creep from institutions and from a chilling effect on our culture. The communists are in paris.

Feminism is an enemy of free civilization. It is only an ally of powerful institutions, and people who are in control of those institutions. Like communism, All claims that come forth from these people professing otherwise are either ill informed, or self-serving lies.
It is not a coincidence that the "communist" and the "feminist" establishments turn on the skeptical community eventual. It is not a coincidence that they reject science that goes against their ideology instead of altering their ideology.
They use the same tactics, of aggressive personal attacks and disparagement of character, propaganda and control of the media.
It's totalitarianism in a dress. They've pulled it off this time because of societal gynocentrism.
Nobody powerful gives a fuck about the poor.
But oh, the women are in trouble? I guess we'll help them out.

Maybe feminists should realize they are the pro-USSR left. History will not look kindly on you. You may have control over left wing politics for now, but that will change when you start to consistently fail to win elections because the anti-feminist and moderate left wing balk at the notion of voting for you. All you have accomplished is being a delay on the path to equality. The conservatives will do their job, and they will keep society in stasis and prevent you from infecting it with shit policies. We may not get progress done, but there will be stasis at least, until you give up and let the egalitarians have a try.

https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopi ... #p24890714

Also that.

If feminism is like communism, you are McCarthy. Seriously, you are blowing this shit way out of all proportion.

I don't know what sort of feminists you think "have control over left wing politics." The people that actually have control over left wing politics are not the sort of raging female-supremacist whackjobs you seem to be complaining about. At least not in the US. I suppose things could be a bit different where you are from the way they are here.

[Haktiva]

Ain't that already free?

No it's not a medical necessity and because you can get it for free from other sources...

is birth control a medical necessity then?

[Ostroeuropa]

Just occurred to me that this shit is nothing new for the left wing.

Feminism is the modern "Communism." It's split the left wing and driven a lot of liberal minded people into the arms of the right wing out of fear for the authoritarianism of the left.
It's actively censorious and demands ideological purity. It has show trials and trials by media.
You've got a bunch of communists and sympathizers walking around insisting that communism isn't so bad and the USSR must be an awesome place, because communism. (Ignoring that any institution that embraces their ideology at the time is fucking authoritarian as shit, power hungry, sociopathic, and an enemy to equality and free civilization.)
You've got others waffling about how it isn't real communism and derailing the discussion from the massive threat to our liberty, we'll discuss that later when these people are dealt with, we need to be talking about how to stop them, not arguing over their title.
And then you've got the ones actually driving the beast.

And meanwhile, it's slowly expanding and taking over. But instead of it occuring abroad, country by country, and all of a sudden, it's an insidious creep from institutions and from a chilling effect on our culture. The communists are in paris.

Feminism is an enemy of free civilization. It is only an ally of powerful institutions, and people who are in control of those institutions. Like communism, All claims that come forth from these people professing otherwise are either ill informed, or self-serving lies.
It is not a coincidence that the "communist" and the "feminist" establishments turn on the skeptical community eventual. It is not a coincidence that they reject science that goes against their ideology instead of altering their ideology.
They use the same tactics, of aggressive personal attacks and disparagement of character, propaganda and control of the media.
It's totalitarianism in a dress. They've pulled it off this time because of societal gynocentrism.
Nobody powerful gives a fuck about the poor.
But oh, the women are in trouble? I guess we'll help them out.

Maybe feminists should realize they are the pro-USSR left. History will not look kindly on you. You may have control over left wing politics for now, but that will change when you start to consistently fail to win elections because the anti-feminist and moderate left wing balk at the notion of voting for you. All you have accomplished is being a delay on the path to equality. The conservatives will do their job, and they will keep society in stasis and prevent you from infecting it with shit policies. We may not get progress done, but there will be stasis at least, until you give up and let the egalitarians have a try.

viewtopic.php?p=24890714#p24890714

Also that.

If feminism is like communism, you are McCarthy. Seriously, you are blowing this shit way out of all proportion.

I don't know what sort of feminists you think "have control over left wing politics." The people that actually have control over left wing politics are not the sort of raging female-supremacist whackjobs you seem to be complaining about. At least not in the US. I suppose things could be a bit different where you are from the way they are here.

I'm not calling for any witchhunts. I'm pointing out that feminism is a danger to our liberty, because the government uses feminism as an excuse to expand it's own powers, and the powerful sorts of feminists are all authoritarians anyway.

I'm saying we need to organize as an anti-feminist or feminist-critical left wing and deny these people the monopoly they have over our politics.

Take a look at the major left wing parties, how many are critical of feminism?
Take a look at the media and it's portrayal of feminism. You don't really see any anti-feminist liberals, do you.
Take a look at their control over universities and the shitshow they've caused there.
Take a look at their control over institutions that deal with rape and domestic violence, and the distortion they've caused there.

If we continue to allow these people to pretend the left wing supports them, it will mean decades out of power for the left wing, same as when the communist sympathizers were predominant. We need to be clear that they do not represent us, and that there is a left wing government that is viable without authoritarianism.

Authoritarianism is the downfall of the left wing, and right now, the authoritarian left is the feminist movement.

I don't think it's out of proportion. In recent years, there has been a massive power grab, as well as a shift in the way the media reports these issues. There has been a collapse of civil rights in universities to the point that a male rape victim was expelled because his accuser got to the authorities first, and well, we need to help victims! So we've stacked the system so heavily in favor of accusers that a rape victim who is accused gets expelled.

I've watched the government use feminist rhetoric to justify power grabs, and i've watched feminists and feminist institutions defend the government in doing so. I'm not overreacting. This ideology is a cancer on our society.

If your only argument is "You're paranoid" then you in fact have no argument.
Demonstrate i'm being paranoid. It seems evident to me that feminism has a very powerful authoritarian sect, and that this sect is taking over left wing politics.

[Ostroeuropa]

Just occurred to me that this shit is nothing new for the left wing.

Feminism is the modern "Communism." It's split the left wing and driven a lot of liberal minded people into the arms of the right wing out of fear for the authoritarianism of the left.
It's actively censorious and demands ideological purity. It has show trials and trials by media.
You've got a bunch of communists and sympathizers walking around insisting that communism isn't so bad and the USSR must be an awesome place, because communism. (Ignoring that any institution that embraces their ideology at the time is fucking authoritarian as shit, power hungry, sociopathic, and an enemy to equality and free civilization.)
You've got others waffling about how it isn't real communism and derailing the discussion from the massive threat to our liberty, we'll discuss that later when these people are dealt with, we need to be talking about how to stop them, not arguing over their title.
And then you've got the ones actually driving the beast.

And meanwhile, it's slowly expanding and taking over. But instead of it occuring abroad, country by country, and all of a sudden, it's an insidious creep from institutions and from a chilling effect on our culture. The communists are in paris.

Feminism is an enemy of free civilization. It is only an ally of powerful institutions, and people who are in control of those institutions. Like communism, All claims that come forth from these people professing otherwise are either ill informed, or self-serving lies.
It is not a coincidence that the "communist" and the "feminist" establishments turn on the skeptical community eventual. It is not a coincidence that they reject science that goes against their ideology instead of altering their ideology.
They use the same tactics, of aggressive personal attacks and disparagement of character, propaganda and control of the media.
It's totalitarianism in a dress. They've pulled it off this time because of societal gynocentrism.
Nobody powerful gives a fuck about the poor.
But oh, the women are in trouble? I guess we'll help them out.

Maybe feminists should realize they are the pro-USSR left. History will not look kindly on you. You may have control over left wing politics for now, but that will change when you start to consistently fail to win elections because the anti-feminist and moderate left wing balk at the notion of voting for you. All you have accomplished is being a delay on the path to equality. The conservatives will do their job, and they will keep society in stasis and prevent you from infecting it with shit policies. We may not get progress done, but there will be stasis at least, until you give up and let the egalitarians have a try.

viewtopic.php?p=24890714#p24890714

Also that.

This is the most paranoid thing I've read on NSG, and that includes this one summer thread I remember by a guy who wanted to privatize water because he was afraid of flouride.

Why is it paranoid?
Do you deny that there is an authoritarian streak to feminism that has divided the left wing?
Do you deny that feminists hold a great deal of institutional and cultural power?

[Diopolis]

No it's not a medical necessity and because you can get it for free from other sources...

is birth control a medical necessity then?

No.

This is the most paranoid thing I've read on NSG, and that includes this one summer thread I remember by a guy who wanted to privatize water because he was afraid of flouride.

Why is it paranoid?
Do you deny that there is an authoritarian streak to feminism that has divided the left wing?
Do you deny that feminists hold a great deal of institutional and cultural power?

Well, first off, most feminists aren't calling for government censorship(as distinct from voluntary censorship, which is not authoritarian), do not control countries, and there's too much internal division in the movement for it to reliably get its way on everything. Plus, people who disagree with feminism, for the most part, don't flee the left to ally with rightists- they stay socially liberal. It's ironic to me, a tradcon, that both the biggest chunk of the feminist movement and the biggest chunk of opposition to it would probably advocate very similar social(and probably economic) policies. Their disagreements would be on equal pay protection, child support, and that's pretty much the main ones.

[New Edom]

Just occurred to me that this shit is nothing new for the left wing.

Feminism is the modern "Communism." It's split the left wing and driven a lot of liberal minded people into the arms of the right wing out of fear for the authoritarianism of the left.
It's actively censorious and demands ideological purity. It has show trials and trials by media.
You've got a bunch of communists and sympathizers walking around insisting that communism isn't so bad and the USSR must be an awesome place, because communism. (Ignoring that any institution that embraces their ideology at the time is fucking authoritarian as shit, power hungry, sociopathic, and an enemy to equality and free civilization.)
You've got others waffling about how it isn't real communism and derailing the discussion from the massive threat to our liberty, we'll discuss that later when these people are dealt with, we need to be talking about how to stop them, not arguing over their title.
And then you've got the ones actually driving the beast.

And meanwhile, it's slowly expanding and taking over. But instead of it occuring abroad, country by country, and all of a sudden, it's an insidious creep from institutions and from a chilling effect on our culture. The communists are in paris.

Feminism is an enemy of free civilization. It is only an ally of powerful institutions, and people who are in control of those institutions. Like communism, All claims that come forth from these people professing otherwise are either ill informed, or self-serving lies.
It is not a coincidence that the "communist" and the "feminist" establishments turn on the skeptical community eventual. It is not a coincidence that they reject science that goes against their ideology instead of altering their ideology.
They use the same tactics, of aggressive personal attacks and disparagement of character, propaganda and control of the media.
It's totalitarianism in a dress. They've pulled it off this time because of societal gynocentrism.
Nobody powerful gives a fuck about the poor.
But oh, the women are in trouble? I guess we'll help them out.

Maybe feminists should realize they are the pro-USSR left. History will not look kindly on you. You may have control over left wing politics for now, but that will change when you start to consistently fail to win elections because the anti-feminist and moderate left wing balk at the notion of voting for you. All you have accomplished is being a delay on the path to equality. The conservatives will do their job, and they will keep society in stasis and prevent you from infecting it with shit policies. We may not get progress done, but there will be stasis at least, until you give up and let the egalitarians have a try.

https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopi ... #p24890714

Also that.

This is the most paranoid thing I've read on NSG, and that includes this one summer thread I remember by a guy who wanted to privatize water because he was afraid of flouride.

It's not paranoia. It's fact.

How do many popular feminists treat people who disagree with the party line like Christina Hoff Sommers, Wendy McElroy, Katie Roiphe? They don't say "I think they're incorrect about a few things." They're denounced as anti-feminist, even though they consistently praise women's achievements and encourage the development of women's rights.

How have feminists on campuses in Canada and the United States responded to criticism of feminist academia? With debates or with attempts to shut down the debates or prevent people from speaking at universities? How have they responded to attempts to form men's groups?

And when these issues are brought up, what do more moderate feminists do but basically ignore it or pretend it isn't happening?

So those are just two examples, and when that is the basic response to concerns within academia, yes, absolutely it is of concern when leaders of the ideology have influence in institutional power.

[Aelex]

Just occurred to me that this shit is nothing new for the left wing.

Feminism is the modern "Communism." It's split the left wing and driven a lot of liberal minded people into the arms of the right wing out of fear for the authoritarianism of the left.
It's actively censorious and demands ideological purity. It has show trials and trials by media.
You've got a bunch of communists and sympathizers walking around insisting that communism isn't so bad and the USSR must be an awesome place, because communism. (Ignoring that any institution that embraces their ideology at the time is fucking authoritarian as shit, power hungry, sociopathic, and an enemy to equality and free civilization.)
You've got others waffling about how it isn't real communism and derailing the discussion from the massive threat to our liberty, we'll discuss that later when these people are dealt with, we need to be talking about how to stop them, not arguing over their title.
And then you've got the ones actually driving the beast.

And meanwhile, it's slowly expanding and taking over. But instead of it occuring abroad, country by country, and all of a sudden, it's an insidious creep from institutions and from a chilling effect on our culture. The communists are in paris.

Feminism is an enemy of free civilization. It is only an ally of powerful institutions, and people who are in control of those institutions. Like communism, All claims that come forth from these people professing otherwise are either ill informed, or self-serving lies.
It is not a coincidence that the "communist" and the "feminist" establishments turn on the skeptical community eventual. It is not a coincidence that they reject science that goes against their ideology instead of altering their ideology.
They use the same tactics, of aggressive personal attacks and disparagement of character, propaganda and control of the media.
It's totalitarianism in a dress. They've pulled it off this time because of societal gynocentrism.
Nobody powerful gives a fuck about the poor.
But oh, the women are in trouble? I guess we'll help them out.

Maybe feminists should realize they are the pro-USSR left. History will not look kindly on you. You may have control over left wing politics for now, but that will change when you start to consistently fail to win elections because the anti-feminist and moderate left wing balk at the notion of voting for you. All you have accomplished is being a delay on the path to equality. The conservatives will do their job, and they will keep society in stasis and prevent you from infecting it with shit policies. We may not get progress done, but there will be stasis at least, until you give up and let the egalitarians have a try.

https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopi ... #p24890714

Also that.

But still, USSR's communism ain't true communism... (´･ω･`)

[Geilinor]

I'm not calling for any witchhunts. I'm pointing out that feminism is a danger to our liberty, because the government uses feminism as an excuse to expand it's own powers, and the powerful sorts of feminists are all authoritarians anyway.

I'm saying we need to organize as an anti-feminist or feminist-critical left wing and deny these people the monopoly they have over our politics.

Take a look at the major left wing parties, how many are critical of feminism?
Take a look at the media and it's portrayal of feminism. You don't really see any anti-feminist liberals, do you.
Take a look at their control over universities and the shitshow they've caused there.
Take a look at their control over institutions that deal with rape and domestic violence, and the distortion they've caused there.

If we continue to allow these people to pretend the left wing supports them, it will mean decades out of power for the left wing, same as when the communist sympathizers were predominant. We need to be clear that they do not represent us, and that there is a left wing government that is viable without authoritarianism.

Authoritarianism is the downfall of the left wing, and right now, the authoritarian left is the feminist movement.

I don't think it's out of proportion. In recent years, there has been a massive power grab, as well as a shift in the way the media reports these issues. There has been a collapse of civil rights in universities to the point that a male rape victim was expelled because his accuser got to the authorities first, and well, we need to help victims! So we've stacked the system so heavily in favor of accusers that a rape victim who is accused gets expelled.

I've watched the government use feminist rhetoric to justify power grabs, and i've watched feminists and feminist institutions defend the government in doing so. I'm not overreacting. This ideology is a cancer on our society.

Please, Ostro, get a grip. McCarthy said that communists were using the government to limit freedom, while using that fear to limit freedom. Feminism is not some kind of left-wing threat, being feminist and left-wing are different. Show me how the government is using feminism to limit liberty.

[Ostroeuropa]

I'm not calling for any witchhunts. I'm pointing out that feminism is a danger to our liberty, because the government uses feminism as an excuse to expand it's own powers, and the powerful sorts of feminists are all authoritarians anyway.

I'm saying we need to organize as an anti-feminist or feminist-critical left wing and deny these people the monopoly they have over our politics.

Take a look at the major left wing parties, how many are critical of feminism?
Take a look at the media and it's portrayal of feminism. You don't really see any anti-feminist liberals, do you.
Take a look at their control over universities and the shitshow they've caused there.
Take a look at their control over institutions that deal with rape and domestic violence, and the distortion they've caused there.

If we continue to allow these people to pretend the left wing supports them, it will mean decades out of power for the left wing, same as when the communist sympathizers were predominant. We need to be clear that they do not represent us, and that there is a left wing government that is viable without authoritarianism.

Authoritarianism is the downfall of the left wing, and right now, the authoritarian left is the feminist movement.

I don't think it's out of proportion. In recent years, there has been a massive power grab, as well as a shift in the way the media reports these issues. There has been a collapse of civil rights in universities to the point that a male rape victim was expelled because his accuser got to the authorities first, and well, we need to help victims! So we've stacked the system so heavily in favor of accusers that a rape victim who is accused gets expelled.

I've watched the government use feminist rhetoric to justify power grabs, and i've watched feminists and feminist institutions defend the government in doing so. I'm not overreacting. This ideology is a cancer on our society.

Please, Ostro, get a grip. McCarthy said that communists were using the government to limit freedom, while using that fear to limit freedom. Feminism is not some kind of left-wing threat, being feminist and left-wing are different. Show me how the government is using feminism to limit liberty.

I agree they are different. That's my point. If we don't make it very clear that the left wing and feminism are seperate, we may end up being out office again for decades and decades out of the public paranoia over feminism, same as the communism shit.

Well, what about porn bans?
Or their university show trials? That's two obvious examples.

[Geilinor]

Well, what about porn bans?

Social conservatives are much more for porn bans than most socially liberal feminists are.

[Ostroeuropa]

Well, what about porn bans?

Social conservatives are much more for porn bans than most socially liberal feminists are.

And yet the labour party...
And let's not ignore that the biggest obstacle to legalizing prostitution is feminists.
The left can just IGNORE conservatives, we did over gay marriage. We can't ignore feminists.
We have to break their power instead. So long as they hold sway in the left wing, a liberal society is not possible.

http://www.menweb.org/lacecur1.htm

Worth reading btw.

[The Black Forrest]

Social conservatives are much more for porn bans than most socially liberal feminists are.

And yet the labour party...
And let's not ignore that the biggest obstacle to legalizing prostitution is feminists.
The left can just IGNORE conservatives, we did over gay marriage. We can't ignore feminists.
We have to break their power instead. So long as they hold sway in the left wing, a liberal society is not possible.