Turkey Votes 2015(Parliamentary elections)

[Baltenstein]

"And now, we can hear our political enemies lament: 'But we granted you freedom of speech!'
Yes, you granted it to us! This doesn't mean that now we have to grant it to you too! That you gave us this opportunity proves nothing more than how stupid you were!"

- Joseph Goebbels, 1938

[Baltenstein]

The Anatolia Party is the only good one.

Emine Ülker Tarhan represents the upper-class, "white Turk" voter base. The group that is around 50-80 years old, and tend to hate Kurds simply because they are Kurds, also making the equation that all Kurds are PKK militants uncomfortably often, while sitting in their luxurious summer houses at the Aegean coast.

That's what the Anatolian Party is. A party of the nationalist upper-class. Good riddance for the CHP, I say.

Why is an upper-class White Turk party called the "Anatolian Party"? Historical reasons?

[Vistulange]

"And now, we can hear our political enemies lament: 'But we granted you freedom of speech!'
Yes, you granted it to us! This doesn't mean that now we have to grant it to you too! That you gave us this opportunity proves nothing more than how stupid you were!"

- Joseph Goebbels, 1938

That would be Recep Tayyip Erdoğan and the rest of his cohorts, I'm afraid. Everyone, from the far-right to the far-left can have their freedom of speech and demonstration, but not the Islamists. They've used everything they've got their hands on, from the death of a 14-year old boy to the thousands of dead in Syria, to the Islamists in Egypt, for political leverage. This is, in my eyes, a crime unforgivable.

Why is an upper-class White Turk party called the "Anatolian Party"? Historical reasons?

Because the woman finally understood that the upper-class "white" Turk votes wouldn't be enough to get to power and that the Anatolian votes were actually necessary. The "uneducated peasants", as they were.

[Mansuriyyah Islamic State]

Not necessarily. I'm Brazil during the 90's, the "social democrats" suffered numerous accusations of corruption, until the Workers Party was elected promising, among other things, a more ethical government... but in the end turned to be as corrupt as, if not more, than the Social Democrats. There are many other examples of the "persecuted" ending up doing exactly what they clamed their "persecutors" to do, and considering the lack of democratic tradition and culture in Turkey, I believe it's very much possible that the CHP wouldn't be very mch different from the AKP.

I definetively don't want to see the kemalists of the turko-nazis in power, I'd rather see another conservative party. Maybe we should give a chance to Saadet Partisi then...

Islamists should not have a chance at government, nor do they deserve the freedom of speech and demonstration that the liberal state offers, which gives it to them even though they seek only to undermine and ultimately destroy it. I mentioned this in a previous post.

As for the Brazil example, it is good to know that Turkey is not Brazil.

Kemalists are not "turko-nazis". If you judge the CHP for what it was between 1923-1950, I'll judge you Islamists for what you were back then: Traitors. That's right, the Islamists of the time sold the Ankara Government between 1919-1923 out quite willingly to the British, what with the Kuvay-i İnzibâtiye and the Anzavur rebellions.

Then again, Islamists in Turkey have only changed from being traitors to being corrupt, power-hungry demagogues. I suppose that's an improvement.

Complain about the AKP's authoritarianism and then preach that some political ideologies should be banned is quite contradictory.

The Brazili example was just one example, there are more all around the world. My point was that there is absolutelly no guarantee that an opposition government would be better (in terms of corruption and authoritarianism). Even in Turkey it happened: 13 years ago when the AKP was founded nd was in the opposition, it cried being persecuted, that the government was authoritarian, that there was no freedon, denounced corruption... and now it does the very same thing, just with a different dressing on it.

I was refering to the extreme nationalists, not to all kemalists in general. In either case, I'd rather have a different party ruling Turkey. I'd even prefer HDP over them.

[Vistulange]

Islamists should not have a chance at government, nor do they deserve the freedom of speech and demonstration that the liberal state offers, which gives it to them even though they seek only to undermine and ultimately destroy it. I mentioned this in a previous post.

As for the Brazil example, it is good to know that Turkey is not Brazil.

Kemalists are not "turko-nazis". If you judge the CHP for what it was between 1923-1950, I'll judge you Islamists for what you were back then: Traitors. That's right, the Islamists of the time sold the Ankara Government between 1919-1923 out quite willingly to the British, what with the Kuvay-i İnzibâtiye and the Anzavur rebellions.

Then again, Islamists in Turkey have only changed from being traitors to being corrupt, power-hungry demagogues. I suppose that's an improvement.

Complain about the AKP's authoritarianism and then preach that some political ideologies should be banned is quite contradictory.

The Brazili example was just one example, there are more all around the world. My point was that there is absolutelly no guarantee that an opposition government would be better (in terms of corruption and authoritarianism). Even in Turkey it happened: 13 years ago when the AKP was founded nd was in the opposition, it cried being persecuted, that the government was authoritarian, that there was no freedon, denounced corruption... and now it does the very same thing, just with a different dressing on it.

I was refering to the extreme nationalists, not to all kemalists in general. In either case, I'd rather have a different party ruling Turkey. I'd even prefer HDP over them.

Call it a double-standard against Islamists, if you will. I don't really care, to be honest. What I do care about is that political Islam never rises again in Turkey.

13 years ago, the rule of law hadn't been eroded so much and the government was secular. The AKP destroyed the rule of law, established its own cadres in the state departments, sold off state bids to its own allies at ludicrous prices, turned the Armed Forces into a scapegoat instead of properly trying them. The following can also be added to the list: Placing Gülenists almost everywhere in the state departments between 2002-2013 in order to undermine military influence, building an unlicenced palace (at first, calling it a residence for the prime minister and then changing it to presidential when Erdoğan was elected president) and openly defying the court order which ordered them to cease construction.

You are corrupt enough. No, you don't deserve another chance for at least another thousand years. Sit down and wallow in your greed and hatred for the Republic and its secularism.

[Mansuriyyah Islamic State]

Complain about the AKP's authoritarianism and then preach that some political ideologies should be banned is quite contradictory.

The Brazili example was just one example, there are more all around the world. My point was that there is absolutelly no guarantee that an opposition government would be better (in terms of corruption and authoritarianism). Even in Turkey it happened: 13 years ago when the AKP was founded nd was in the opposition, it cried being persecuted, that the government was authoritarian, that there was no freedon, denounced corruption... and now it does the very same thing, just with a different dressing on it.

I was refering to the extreme nationalists, not to all kemalists in general. In either case, I'd rather have a different party ruling Turkey. I'd even prefer HDP over them.

Call it a double-standard against Islamists, if you will. I don't really care, to be honest. What I do care about is that political Islam never rises again in Turkey.

13 years ago, the rule of law hadn't been eroded so much and the government was secular. The AKP destroyed the rule of law, established its own cadres in the state departments, sold off state bids to its own allies at ludicrous prices, turned the Armed Forces into a scapegoat instead of properly trying them. The following can also be added to the list: Placing Gülenists almost everywhere in the state departments between 2002-2013 in order to undermine military influence, building an unlicenced palace (at first, calling it a residence for the prime minister and then changing it to presidential when Erdoğan was elected president) and openly defying the court order which ordered them to cease construction.

You are corrupt enough. No, you don't deserve another chance for at least another thousand years. Sit down and wallow in your greed and hatred for the Republic and its secularism.

I'm not corrupt, please don't call me names, you don't even know me for God's sake. I don't belong to the AKP (and wouldn't in any case), besides I'm pretty much against many of its actions, like it establishing their own cadres, that utterly stupid and wasteful palace, and its crackdown on freedom of expression (like blocking twitter and youtube).

You seem to be taking it to the personal. If that's the case, I'll stop my interaction with you here, I don't want to indispose myself with anyone.

[Vistulange]

Call it a double-standard against Islamists, if you will. I don't really care, to be honest. What I do care about is that political Islam never rises again in Turkey.

13 years ago, the rule of law hadn't been eroded so much and the government was secular. The AKP destroyed the rule of law, established its own cadres in the state departments, sold off state bids to its own allies at ludicrous prices, turned the Armed Forces into a scapegoat instead of properly trying them. The following can also be added to the list: Placing Gülenists almost everywhere in the state departments between 2002-2013 in order to undermine military influence, building an unlicenced palace (at first, calling it a residence for the prime minister and then changing it to presidential when Erdoğan was elected president) and openly defying the court order which ordered them to cease construction.

You are corrupt enough. No, you don't deserve another chance for at least another thousand years. Sit down and wallow in your greed and hatred for the Republic and its secularism.

I'm not corrupt, please don't call me names, you don't even know me for God's sake. I don't belong to the AKP (and wouldn't in any case), besides I'm pretty much against many of its actions, like it establishing their own cadres, that utterly stupid and wasteful palace, and its crackdown on freedom of expression (like blocking twitter and youtube).

You seem to be taking it to the personal. If that's the case, I'll stop my interaction with you here, I don't want to indispose myself with anyone.

Granted, I tend to get a tad...excited when discussing this topic. For that, I apologise. No, I have nothing personal with you.

But yes, I have a bias against political Islamists. Everybody else, from the far-right and far-left, can have freedom of speech and demonstration, but not the likes of the AKP.

[Purger]

Traitor right here. This is the kind of people we need to eradicate from our country so we can stand unified and strong. In Turkey we have a lot of two things: Heroes and traitors.

Negotiating with the PKK does not make one a traitor. It's the only good part of the AKP's platform.

Yes, it doe because PKK murdered a lot of turkish civilians.

[Vistulange]

Negotiating with the PKK does not make one a traitor. It's the only good part of the AKP's platform.

Yes, it doe because PKK murdered a lot of turkish civilians.

And the Turkish Armed Forces are responsible for the burning of several Kurdish villages, resulting in the deaths of a lot of Kurdish citizens. Your point?

[Purger]

u wot

Centre-left?

Could you be more familiar with Turkish politics, please? Because unfamiliarity is the only way one could call the effing MHP centre-left. I haven't heard of an ultranationalist centre-left, have you?

Coalitions don't mean shit, either. Ecevit once paired up with Erbakan - a social democrat with an Islamist. Does that make Ecevit an Islamist or Erbakan a social democrat? Nope, not at all.

Also, do a research of Mehmet Ekmeleddin İhsanoğlu before you claim he is in any way centre-left.

Left-wing nationalim used to exist and it was not that rare in history. Usually I would support the MHP in this election since they would be in favour of restoring Turkeys old borders thus creating Natural Turkey. Unfortunately, the MHP tried killed the Pope so it will be a blaspemy to support MHP (why do they did that anyway?).

The CHP would be a great choice but infortunately they shifted to the left and abandomed many of Kemals principles.

Yes, it doe because PKK murdered a lot of turkish civilians.

And the Turkish Armed Forces are responsible for the burning of several Kurdish villages, resulting in the deaths of a lot of Kurdish citizens. Your point?

If thoose kurdish villages did not hosted PKKers than the army would not be forced to go there, hence even America is attacking Pakistani villages yet it does not mean America should negotiate with al_Qaida. It was not the Turks who started all this, it were the Kurds who do not accept that they live in Turkey. It is the Kurds who still live in the Middle Ages since their cousins are maring a lot and there is blood revenge among the Kurds. The Turks just want them to help to remove their barbaric habits.

[Vistulange]

u wot

Centre-left?

Could you be more familiar with Turkish politics, please? Because unfamiliarity is the only way one could call the effing MHP centre-left. I haven't heard of an ultranationalist centre-left, have you?

Coalitions don't mean shit, either. Ecevit once paired up with Erbakan - a social democrat with an Islamist. Does that make Ecevit an Islamist or Erbakan a social democrat? Nope, not at all.

Also, do a research of Mehmet Ekmeleddin İhsanoğlu before you claim he is in any way centre-left.

Left-wing nationalim used to exist and it was not that rare in history. Usually I would support the MHP in this election since they would be in favour of restoring Turkeys old borders thus creating Natural Turkey. Unfortunately, the MHP tried killed the Pope so it will be a blaspemy to support MHP (why do they did that anyway?).

The CHP would be a great choice but infortunately they shifted to the left and abandomed many of Kemals principles.

And the Turkish Armed Forces are responsible for the burning of several Kurdish villages, resulting in the deaths of a lot of Kurdish citizens. Your point?

If thoose kurdish villages did not hosted PKKers than the army would not be forced to go there, hence even America is attacking Pakistani villages yet it does not mean America should negotiate with al_Qaida. It was not the Turks who started all this, it were the Kurds who do not accept that they live in Turkey. It is the Kurds who still live in the Middle Ages since their cousins are maring a lot and there is blood revenge among the Kurds. The Turks just want them to help to remove their barbaric habits.

CHP is a social democratic party. Mustafa Kemal could be considered a social democrat if not for his nationalism.

Also, really?

The Europeans just wanted to bring civilization to Africa.

[Purger]

CHP is a social democratic party. Mustafa Kemal could be considered a social democrat if not for his nationalism.

Also, really?

The Europeans just wanted to bring civilization to Africa.

But Kurds are living in Turkey, and as long you are in Rome you should behave like that. So the comparison with Africa and Europeans is not comparable.

Also, why did the Grey Wolfes tried to kill the Pope?

What social-democratic policies did Kemal make?

[Ereria]

Image mod-edited for content

Here we see our OWN cop killed by KURDS. People that vote HDP, are voting against our nation. You guys talk about HDP as if they were a progressive party that cared about Turks!

They support PKK and their supporters KILLS OUR COPS AND SOLDIERS. HOW can you vote for such traitors? How can you accept that? Our own people are getting killed by those filthy cunts. That police man was the father of some children and the husband of a woman. Now they are left alone, crying, while our OWN PEOPLE vote for these people that did this. How can people that vote for HDP not be seen as traitors?

And the Turkish Armed Forces are responsible for the burning of several Kurdish villages, resulting in the deaths of a lot of Kurdish citizens. Your point?

We shouldn't have stopped. We should burn down every shitty village and deport those filthy fucks straight to ISIS.

[Baltenstein]

We shouldn't have stopped. We should burn down every shitty village and deport those filthy fucks straight to ISIS.

Armenian genocide totally didn't happen though. Seriously!

Left-wing nationalim used to exist and it was not that rare in history. Usually I would support the MHP in this election since they would be in favour of restoring Turkeys old borders thus creating Natural Turkey.

"Turkey's old borders"? You mean like the Golden Dawn would restore Greece's "old borders"?

Yeah, right.

[Mefpan]

-graphic image snip-

Here we see our OWN cop killed by KURDS. People that vote HDP, are voting against our nation. You guys talk about HDP as if they were a progressive party that cared about Turks!

They support PKK and their supporters KILLS OUR COPS AND SOLDIERS. HOW can you vote for such traitors? How can you accept that? Our own people are getting killed by those filthy cunts. That police man was the father of some children and the husband of a woman. Now they are left alone, crying, while our OWN PEOPLE vote for these people that did this. How can people that vote for HDP not be seen as traitors?

And the Turkish Armed Forces are responsible for the burning of several Kurdish villages, resulting in the deaths of a lot of Kurdish citizens. Your point?

We shouldn't have stopped. We should burn down every shitty village and deport those filthy fucks straight to ISIS.

Don't want people to sympathize with rebels? Don't spout rhetoric even more vile. Don't claim moral high ground if your statements are tantamount to putting moral into a shallow ditch and shooting it in the head.

But hey, the idea of hate breeding more hate is a myth, so why won't the minorities love me after all the kind mistreatment I've been sending them?

[Baltenstein]

*Laments about crying women and children*

*Rambles about burning down villages one sentence later*

Cool story, bro.

EDIT: When somebody posted how 2 people were killed by the bombing of a HDP rally earlier, didn't Ereria respond with "good"?

[Vistulange]

CHP is a social democratic party. Mustafa Kemal could be considered a social democrat if not for his nationalism.

Also, really?

The Europeans just wanted to bring civilization to Africa.

But Kurds are living in Turkey, and as long you are in Rome you should behave like that. So the comparison with Africa and Europeans is not comparable.

Also, why did the Grey Wolfes tried to kill the Pope?

What social-democratic policies did Kemal make?

I believe the Pope's attacker was not acting on orders from the MHP or the Grey Wolves. While he did have an affiliation with them in the past, his attack on the Pope was independent of the MHP or the Grey Wolves organization.

As for Mustafa Kemal's reforms that could be considered social democratic, I think I can cite the economic reforms of the 1923-1938 era. It was in this time that the economy was shifted from a centralized agricultural economy into a private and state-interventionist industrial economy. The success of this policy can be argued, but that is another topic.

While I am in Rome, I certainly should not be acting as an Italian and trying to speak Italian. Yes, I must respect their laws and societal norms if I am to be accepted there, but I certainly should not be acting as though I were Italian. I am my own person and I am Turkish, not Italian.

Now, why should the Kurds not be allowed to speak their own language, or recieve education in their own language? As long as they pay their taxes and work for the betterment of the country we all live in, why should they not have the priviledges Turks do? We aren't talking about a minute minority of 2 or 3 percent. We are talking about around 25% of our population.

[Western-Ukraine]

Even if I do not agree with Erdoğan on many things my choice would still be AKP. They are the most economically right-wing party in my opinion and the best option for Turkey entering the EU which I have come to support. I'm somewhat concerned by Erdoğans Islamism but I see him as a far more better choice than the more moderate left-wing parties and the far-right party.
Go Erdoğan!

[Baltenstein]

Even if I do not agree with Erdoğan on many things my choice would still be AKP. They are the most economically right-wing party in my opinion and the best option for Turkey entering the EU which I have come to support. I'm somewhat concerned by Erdoğans Islamism but I see him as a far more better choice than the more moderate left-wing parties and the far-right party.
Go Erdoğan!

You sure the Erdogan of the year 2015 is going to lead Turkey into the EU?

On that topic, I'd say that if a CHP-HDP government should ever become come to pass, the EU has an obligation to work with them to make Turkish EU membership a reality in the mid-term.

I believe the Pope's attacker was not acting on orders from the MHP or the Grey Wolves. While he did have an affiliation with them in the past, his attack on the Pope was independent of the MHP or the Grey Wolves organization.

Afaik the attacker was sponsored by the Bulgarian secret service, and therefore, the KGB - the Soviet authorities being pretty pissed off about the Pope's role in the Polish civil uprising.

[Steamtopia]

Even if I do not agree with Erdoğan on many things my choice would still be AKP. They are the most economically right-wing party in my opinion and the best option for Turkey entering the EU which I have come to support. I'm somewhat concerned by Erdoğans Islamism but I see him as a far more better choice than the more moderate left-wing parties and the far-right party.
Go Erdoğan!

You sure the Erdogan of the year 2015 is going to lead Turkey into the EU?

On that topic, I'd say that if a CHP-HDP government should ever become come to pass, the EU has an obligation to work with them to make Turkish EU membership a reality in the mid-term.

An obligation?

[Calimera II]

You sure the Erdogan of the year 2015 is going to lead Turkey into the EU?

On that topic, I'd say that if a CHP-HDP government should ever become come to pass, the EU has an obligation to work with them to make Turkish EU membership a reality in the mid-term.

An obligation?

Many European countries don't even want Turkey to be member of the EU.

[Baltenstein]

You sure the Erdogan of the year 2015 is going to lead Turkey into the EU?

On that topic, I'd say that if a CHP-HDP government should ever become come to pass, the EU has an obligation to work with them to make Turkish EU membership a reality in the mid-term.

An obligation?

Yes. It would be a window of opportunity to draw Turkey out of the Islamist clusterfuck that is engulfing its neighborhood. The general notion among the Turkish population that the EU membership bid is a lost cause because the Europeans don't want them anyway is one of the main reasons political Islamism has become so popular there in the past few decades.

[Steamtopia]

An obligation?

Yes. It would be a window of opportunity to draw Turkey out of the Islamist clusterfuck that is engulfing in its neighborhood.

I don't see how that's an obligation when they're not already part of the EU.

[Baltenstein]

Yes. It would be a window of opportunity to draw Turkey out of the Islamist clusterfuck that is engulfing in its neighborhood.

I don't see how that's an obligation when they're not already part of the EU.

I'd rather have the demarcation line between secular democracy and religious authoritarianism running along the Turkish-Arab borders than the Evros river.

[Phoaenice]

I write from Southern Europe, I believe me and others not to have sufficient involvement and information either to support seriously any politic or far more, party. I read with deep interest articles regarding this, more about the Gezi protest period and foreign policies (but internal daily politic should be more interesting).

Thus, having common information and having read your Wikipedia abstracts, I m going to cast vote in favour of
Chp

And sic semper tyrannis

edit: I ve read now some comment about Eu and Erdogan Akp. I live in and think to be quite in it, official statements is something often not matching with intention and far more, actions.
It s clear Erdogan' s Turkey has no more possibilities of coming into the Eu, it is from a couple of years.
both parts, Turkish president representing its nation, want this no more.

edit more:I would agree however with what Baltenstein said, in the sense European behaviour should stimulate a fair leadership and develop of influence bordering countries, this more or less beeing what had happened in past decade. In late times, situation quite degenerated and simply Eu enlighted faction of Its leadership renounced and let Turkish To their faith, beeing also that Turkey' s alignment with Erdogan "strong rule" is heavly opposed to European "values" and politics. (It should be in other ways, what has come in Europe-Russian relations). You should agree I suppose