what "race" do I check?

[Honnen]

Why does the OP's school even require somebody to list their ethnicity prior to registration? What's the point?

That sounds needlessly racialist.

Keeping that kind of data can be useful for identifying racist discrimination, as I pointed out above.

He's right, there are also other questions that are apparently for identifying discrimination, or other patterns. I know in a whole lot of data my answer won't make 0.1% of a difference, but I feel like its my responsibility to answer it accurately.

[Rio Cana]

OP if you are Mexican American just vote Hispanic. After all that is what they are asking.

Lets say you check on that form your color. You would then be saying that you are of European descent. You would be empowering politically that group. The same group which, historically, has marginalized Hispanics and even African Americans. Checking hispanic you would be empowering the Hispanic group politically. When it comes to US African Americans there population numbers have been stable at around 12% which means politically they will always be in a disadvantage. However, the Hispanic population has been growing which allows for political power to be gain. , However, if they start dividing themselves by color it will only benefit the so called majority of European descent who have tended to look down on most Latin Americans no matter the color.

Off-Topic - OP since you said you were Mexican American, what do you think about this singers voice. Its a fellow Mexican American of yours from Riverside California. Great voice. Too bad she lost. More then likely she will continue with her career. Hard to believe with a voice like that that she is 12.

Video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dRnTWRaZ-o

[Dukats]

Ask Stormfront.

[Rio Cana]

Ask Stormfront.

No ask Natalia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2zOb0HGdxg

[Aidannadia]

In my understanding, hispanic is not a race? Race is a collection of physiological characteristics, no? Hispanic is an ethnicity, more like a culture than a race.

Race would be something like East Asian, Black, White, Native American, or Pacific Islander.

So the real question is, do you think you are affected on a daily basis by the culture of your hispanic ancestors?

[The Archregimancy]

Minor point of order...

Do Brazilians count as 'Hispanic' for the purposes of these categorisations in the United States?

[Parhe]

Minor point of order...

Do Brazilians count as 'Hispanic' for the purposes of these categorisations in the United States?

Officially, uh, sort of (though it should be said different organizations, private or public, and government departments have different definitions of Hispanic that may includes or exclude Brazilians, Spaniards, Haitians, and so on). For ease I am going to just use Wiki as a source, for sources, for now. White House Gove says "The term "Hispanic" refers to persons who trace their origin or descent to Mexico, Puerto Rico, Cuba, Central and South America, and other Spanish cultures" which would include Brazilians, Haitians, Surinamese, and Guyanese. Unless you interpret "other Spanish cultures" to somehow mean that vague statement also applies to all regions named before it in the sentence. However, the Wiki article claims, though I am not sure if it is still true as the "source" likes me to an error page, that the Department of Transportation uses the definition"persons of Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, Dominican, Central or South American, or other Spanish or Portuguese culture or origin, regardless of race," which I assume would mean including Brazil and possibly people from other former colonies of those nations such as Angola, Timor Leste, Goa, Macau, and Cape Verde, among others. The article claims that other organizations have taken up the same definition.

It is a rather messy subject apparently for the government to make a decision on.

[Ifreann]

Minor point of order...

Do Brazilians count as 'Hispanic' for the purposes of these categorisations in the United States?

I have consulted Wikipedia and determined that they are Lusitanians.

[Farnhamia]

Minor point of order...

Do Brazilians count as 'Hispanic' for the purposes of these categorisations in the United States?

I have consulted Wikipedia and determined that they are Lusitanians.

They can't be, the Lusitania sank in 1915. Anyway, as with most things governmental, the definition is confusing:

Definition of Hispanic or Latino Origin Used in the 2010 Census
“Hispanic or Latino” refers to a person of Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, South or Central American, or other Spanish culture or origin regardless of race.

So ... Brazilians are from South America, I guess they fit as Latinos.

[Utrinque Paratus]

How about they remove the whole race questions altogether? It doesn't fucking matter.

[Ifreann]

I have consulted Wikipedia and determined that they are Lusitanians.

They can't be, the Lusitania sank in 1915.

Sure, that's what the Brazilians want you to think.

---

How about they remove the whole race questions altogether? It doesn't fucking matter.

"Sir, we have a problem. It seems our organisation is getting a reputation for only hiring white people"
"Now I know that's not right, I see people who aren't white here every day. Do HR have numbers on the races of our employees?"
"That's actually the problem I wanted to talk about, sir. I was just on the phone with HR. According to their numbers only 4% of our employees are white."
"What?"
"We also have significant numbers of Martians, three Neanderthals, and several sporting events."
"Sporting events?"
"NASCAR, 100 metre hurdles, Grand National."
"Okay, new hiring policy. No fucking smart asses."

[Personal Freedom]

So I was filling out a registration form for school, and I had to check a box for my race. The choices were along the lines of "white, black, Asian, native american, south pac. Islander, native Alaskan, etc." Then a y/n box asking if I was Hispanic or latino. I'm a second generation Mexican American, anf my skin is not especially light, nor very dark. What should I check? I thought yes on Hispanic/latino and white for the other one (scince I am American and lighter than he rest of my family)? Do I even check one for the first question?

My friends are descended from Hispanics on one side but look almost Nordic. They check White but of Hispanic descent.

[Novus America]

Minor point of order...

Do Brazilians count as 'Hispanic' for the purposes of these categorisations in the United States?

Nobody seems to know for sure. Sometimes Hispanic and Latino are used interchangeably but other times they are different, Hispanic only for Spanish speaking places, Latino for all with Latin based languages. So Brazilians and Haitian might be just Latino but not Hispanic. But the form may ask "are you Hispanic/Latino. But then you also have Ibero American, which includes Brazil but not Haiti, as you must trace to the Iberian peninsula. And since these terms are often thrown around with no actual understanding of what they mean, the have become a jumbled mess. As such, and as "Hispanic whites" and "non-Hispanic whites" freely intermarry there is no clear definition and every passing year it becomes less and less clear. I think I have some family in my past from Spain. I am I Hispanic? How much connection to a Spanish culture do you need? Is one grand father from Spain enough? Maybe one great great grandfather?

Also remember most Americans cannot clearly trace all of their lineage or where all their family originated from.

So Hispanic has at this point become an increasingly vague, broad and uncertain that it is losing any real meaning.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic ... ng_dispute

This might clear things up, or confuse you more, and according to it a majority of those identified as such dislike the terms as they would use there country of origin instead. For example Cuban American instead of "Hispanic" if they choose to claim an ethnicity beyond just "American". Those of Cuban and Mexican descent for example often do not consider themselves to be of the same ethnicity. And ethnicity in the American context is not mutually exclusive and may overlap, somebody could easily identify themselves as a Polish-Greek-German-Scottish-British-Cuban-Hispanic-American. In fact the use of any identifier is controversial, as many Americans say all Americans are just American and these identifiers serve no good purpose and only cause unnecessary confusion and division.

I think it is inevitable that the term fall into disuse. There used to be a big Southern European, especially Italian, vs Anglo/Northern European ethnicity vs Eastern European dispute in the U.S. But we finally figured out it was really stupid as there was no way to clearly define, divide and differentiate as Italians and other Southern Europeans and Eastern Europeans assimilated and intermarried into the larger American culture. Now only a handful of Stormfronters seem to care about this. And pizza is now considered and American food.

So sorry if there is no good answer. Trying to make sense of ethnicity in the American context is by default an exercise in futility, as none of the underlying definitions or assumptions are actually clear or logical.

[The Carolines]

Hispanic/Latino, select yes.

Leave the other question blank. You are not white.

[The Carolines]

OP if you are Mexican American just vote Hispanic. After all that is what they are asking.

Lets say you check on that form your color. You would then be saying that you are of European descent. You would be empowering politically that group. The same group which, historically, has marginalized Hispanics and even African Americans. Checking hispanic you would be empowering the Hispanic group politically. When it comes to US African Americans there population numbers have been stable at around 12% which means politically they will always be in a disadvantage. However, the Hispanic population has been growing which allows for political power to be gain. , However, if they start dividing themselves by color it will only benefit the so called majority of European descent who have tended to look down on most Latin Americans no matter the color.

Off-Topic - OP since you said you were Mexican American, what do you think about this singers voice. Its a fellow Mexican American of yours from Riverside California. Great voice. Too bad she lost. More then likely she will continue with her career. Hard to believe with a voice like that that she is 12.

Video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dRnTWRaZ-o

Do you have a bone to pick with white Americans or something?

[Novus America]

Hispanic/Latino, select yes.

Leave the other question blank. You are not white.

He is almost certainly part white. Again he could go with white and Native American.

How can you say he is "not white", do you know him? Who are you to judge? You sound like a Stormfront type when you say Nexican Americans cannot be white.

Do you realize a majority of Hispanics (again such a unclear identity) identify only as white? And the vast majority of the remainder as part white?

[The Carolines]

Hispanic/Latino, select yes.

Leave the other question blank. You are not white.

He is almost certainly part white. Again he could go with white and Native American.

So biracial? Yea, that's not white. That is biracial.

How can you say he is "not white", do you know him? Who are you to judge? You sound like a Stormfront type when you say Nexican Americans cannot be white.

Less than 10% of Mexico is white.

60% of Mexico is biracial (white and Amerind). 30% of Mexico is pure Amerind.

http://mexidata.info/id1442.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Mexico#Ethnic_groups

Combine this with the fact that most Mexican immigrants to the US are from the lower rungs of society (and thus more likely to be biracial or Amerind, rather than white, due to social stratification), the probability of this individual being white is extremely low. I'll take my chances and say that they aren't white.

And I don't appreciate your ad hominem. I'm not saying that Mexican Americans cannot be white. I'm saying that the vast majority of them are not white.

[The Carolines]

Do you realize a majority of Hispanics (again such a unclear identity) identify only as white? And the vast majority of the remainder as part white?

Most white Hispanics are not Mexicans.

For Hispanic groups that are actually rather white, see Cuban-Americans*, Argentines, Chileans, Costa Ricans (well somewhat), and Uruguayans.


*Yes, many black Cubans exist, but they're mostly in Cuba. Cubans in the United States are largely white.

[Novus America]

He is almost certainly part white. Again he could go with white and Native American.

So biracial? Yea, that's not white. That is biracial.

How can you say he is "not white", do you know him? Who are you to judge? You sound like a Stormfront type when you say Nexican Americans cannot be white.

Less than 10% of Mexico is white.

60% of Mexico is biracial (white and Amerind). 30% of Mexico is pure Amerind.

http://mexidata.info/id1442.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Mexico#Ethnic_groups

Combine this with the fact that most Mexican immigrants to the US are from the lower rungs of society (and thus more likely to be biracial or Amerind, rather than white, due to social stratification), the probability of this individual being white is extremely low. I'll take my chances and say that they aren't white.

And I don't appreciate your ad hominem. I'm not saying that Mexican Americans cannot be white. I'm saying that the vast majority of them are not white.

You do not sound any better when you say biracial people cannot be white.

If he is biracial he still is white, just white and something else. The one drop theory is ridiculous and out of date. You are still white, even if you are white mixed with something else.

Is Obama not black because he is biracial? He clearly both black and white.

The OP is almost is very likely biracial, and thus should select both his races. White and Native American most lilkly. Bi means two. So he is still part white. Biracial by its very definition means you are two races.

Serously, this is not difficult. If you are biracial you check two race boxes.

[The Carolines]

So biracial? Yea, that's not white. That is biracial.



Less than 10% of Mexico is white.

60% of Mexico is biracial (white and Amerind). 30% of Mexico is pure Amerind.

http://mexidata.info/id1442.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Mexico#Ethnic_groups

Combine this with the fact that most Mexican immigrants to the US are from the lower rungs of society (and thus more likely to be biracial or Amerind, rather than white, due to social stratification), the probability of this individual being white is extremely low. I'll take my chances and say that they aren't white.

And I don't appreciate your ad hominem. I'm not saying that Mexican Americans cannot be white. I'm saying that the vast majority of them are not white.

You do not sound any better when you say biracial people cannot be white.

Well, they aren't. White is defined as people nearly or wholly of European descent, excluding Semites and Romanis. Having 50% or more non-white ancestry would cause someone to not be white.

If you have a mixture that is 50% red and 50% yellow, you cannot say that it is both red and yellow. Instead, it is orange, something else entirely.

If he is biracial he still is white, just white and something else. The one drop theory is ridiculous and out of date. You are still white, even if you are white mixed with something else.

You can have a small amount of non-white admixture and still be white, because face it, nobody is pure. But when half of you is not white, then no, you aren't white.

Race isn't an either/or case. It is a continuum.

Is Obama not black because he is biracial? He clearly both black and white.

Obama is biracial. Strictly speaking, he is not black nor white, but biracial. That's all there is to say. Which community he identifies more with is a separate discussion.

The OP is almost is very likely biracial, and thus should select both his races. White and Native American most lilkly. Bi means two. So he is still part white. Biracial by its very definition means you are two races.

If he selects both white and Native American, then that would be correct, because he is a combination. However, to suggest that he is both completely both at the same time is completely idiotic.

Also part white =/= actually being white.

A distant ancestor of mine is black, but everyone else is white. Therefore, if I were to break it down, I would be about 0.5% black. Are you going to argue that I am a black person?

Serously, this is not difficult.

Speak for yourself.

[Novus America]

Do you realize a majority of Hispanics (again such a unclear identity) identify only as white? And the vast majority of the remainder as part white?

Most white Hispanics are not Mexicans.

For Hispanic groups that are actually rather white, see Cuban-Americans*, Argentines, Chileans, Costa Ricans (well somewhat), and Uruguayans.


*Yes, many black Cubans exist, but they're mostly in Cuba. Cubans in the United States are largely white.

Yes but most Mexicans are still part white. The one drop theory is very racist, very out of date and only applied to blacks, not native Americans anyways. People who are white with Native American are still white

[Anollasia]

Human. *nods*

[The Carolines]

Most white Hispanics are not Mexicans.

For Hispanic groups that are actually rather white, see Cuban-Americans*, Argentines, Chileans, Costa Ricans (well somewhat), and Uruguayans.


*Yes, many black Cubans exist, but they're mostly in Cuba. Cubans in the United States are largely white.

Yes but most Mexicans are still part white.

Less than 10% Mexicans actually are white, and don't forget, this is just self-identification. Less than 10% of Mexicans even consider themselves white.

Are you going to tell the 90% of Mexicans who are not white that they actually are even though they don't even consider themselves white?

The one drop theory is very racist, very out of date and only applied to blacks

You keep bringing this up as if it is relevant. If anything, this is a reverse of the one drop theory.

not native Americans anyways.

Stop being US-centric. Race exists outside of historical perceptions in the United States.

People who are white with Native American are still white

Depends. Is Elizabeth Warren (she has distant tribal ancestor) white? Yes.

Now is a Mexican who has 50% Amerind ancestry white? No.

[Novus America]

You do not sound any better when you say biracial people cannot be white.

Well, they aren't. White is defined as people nearly or wholly of European descent, excluding Semites and Romanis. Having 50% or more non-white ancestry would cause someone to not be white.

If you have a mixture that is 50% red and 50% yellow, you cannot say that it is both red and yellow. Instead, it is orange, something else entirely.

If he is biracial he still is white, just white and something else. The one drop theory is ridiculous and out of date. You are still white, even if you are white mixed with something else.

You can have a small amount of non-white admixture and still be white, because face it, nobody is pure. But when half of you is not white, then no, you aren't white.

Race isn't an either/or case. It is a continuum.

Is Obama not black because he is biracial? He clearly both black and white.

Obama is biracial. Strictly speaking, he is not black nor white, but biracial. That's all there is to say. Which community he identifies more with is a separate discussion.

The OP is almost is very likely biracial, and thus should select both his races. White and Native American most lilkly. Bi means two. So he is still part white. Biracial by its very definition means you are two races.

If he selects both white and Native American, then that would be correct, because he is a combination. However, to suggest that he is both completely both at the same time is completely idiotic.

Also part white =/= actually being white.

A distant ancestor of mine is black, but everyone else is white. Therefore, if I were to break it down, I would be about 0.5% black. Are you going to argue that I am a black person?

Serously, this is not difficult.

Speak for yourself.

You do not have to be all white to be white. But your definition of biracial not being able to be more than one race is different than any I have every heard of. And how do you know his mix anyways? What if he is part 75% white?

See race is not mutually exclusive and your mixing colors apology is off the mark is race is a purely social construct. As such it is possible to be more than one at the same time.

But at least we can agree he should check both white and Native American.

And less than 10% identify as all white, most of the rest identify as part white. But we are just arguing semantics now.

[The Carolines]

Well, they aren't. White is defined as people nearly or wholly of European descent, excluding Semites and Romanis. Having 50% or more non-white ancestry would cause someone to not be white.

If you have a mixture that is 50% red and 50% yellow, you cannot say that it is both red and yellow. Instead, it is orange, something else entirely.



You can have a small amount of non-white admixture and still be white, because face it, nobody is pure. But when half of you is not white, then no, you aren't white.

Race isn't an either/or case. It is a continuum.



Obama is biracial. Strictly speaking, he is not black nor white, but biracial. That's all there is to say. Which community he identifies more with is a separate discussion.



If he selects both white and Native American, then that would be correct, because he is a combination. However, to suggest that he is both completely both at the same time is completely idiotic.

Also part white =/= actually being white.

A distant ancestor of mine is black, but everyone else is white. Therefore, if I were to break it down, I would be about 0.5% black. Are you going to argue that I am a black person?



Speak for yourself.

You do not have to be all white to be white.

This is correct. You can be 10% non-white and still be white. But there is a threshold (I'd wager it's around 70%). Being 50% non-white is well passed that threshold.

But your definition of biracial not being able to be more than one race is different than any I have every heard of.

Intriguing.

And how do you know his mix anyways?

I don't, but based off the demographics of Mexican-Americans, I can make a rather accurate guess.

What if he is part 75% white?

Es blanco. But I doubt that this individual is, because the odds are against it.

See race is not mutually exclusive and your mixing colors apology is off the mark is race is a purely social construct. As such it is possible to be more than one at the same time.

No, it is not. Racial differences are about 50% environmental and 50% biological. There are hereditarian cases to be made for differences in agility and intelligence, but that is for another thread.