Europe's Problem With Islam

[The Empire of Pretantia]

It's all persecution regardless. Both hated gays; the only difference was the extent they showed it.

im a gay soldier who is MARRIED to his husband in the United States

I'm living a GREAT LIFE

And you couldn't have had that some few decades back, which is what I was talking about. In general, there is a trend towards more freedom. The Middle East will follow. Not soon, but it will.

[North Calaveras]

omg it's always someone or something elses fault isn't it?

nope, it's never the ideology or religion or political belief that causes issues

just a bunch of victims.

It surely is the fault of some people. But the reason lies in economic disenfranchisement, not just in Islam. And you need to get that point in your head. Fighting Islam won't do us much good. Improving the economy will.

i agree that fighting an idea is bad, because ideas are not physical, but you can certainly destroy/currupt or slow down the instruments that cause them.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Moderates in Egypt weren't outvoted by islamists. They were outvoted by a minority voting for the Muslim Brotherhood, because the various Islamic groups united under a single banner, unlike the moderates, who were divided. Even then, the Muslim Brotherhood didn't just receive votes from Islamists. Mursi promised a secular state, with some Islamic values (love for the family, life and liberty, all that). So, no, Egypt isn't filled with Islamists.

liberty is NOT a islamic value when you have things like taxes on christians which is definatley a part of islam.

Is it not? Could I take you back to the time of the first Caliphate? Or, I'll let John Green do it for me. The Islamic State.

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Is killing Jews a part of Christianity?

[North Calaveras]

im a gay soldier who is MARRIED to his husband in the United States

I'm living a GREAT LIFE

And you couldn't have had that some few decades back, which is what I was talking about. In general, there is a trend towards more freedom. The Middle East will follow. Not soon, but it will.

even a few decades back it still wasn't as bad as it is in the middle east, hell there was a chance you might get jumped or killed but it wasn't supported by the people to do these things and if you were caught you would be tried and jailed for murder.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

It surely is the fault of some people. But the reason lies in economic disenfranchisement, not just in Islam. And you need to get that point in your head. Fighting Islam won't do us much good. Improving the economy will.

i agree that fighting an idea is bad, because ideas are not physical, but you can certainly destroy/currupt or slow down the instruments that cause them.

Like, I don't know, economic disparity? That's a pretty good instrument right there.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

And you couldn't have had that some few decades back, which is what I was talking about. In general, there is a trend towards more freedom. The Middle East will follow. Not soon, but it will.

even a few decades back it still wasn't as bad as it is in the middle east, hell there was a chance you might get jumped or killed but it wasn't supported by the people to do these things and if you were caught you would be tried and jailed for murder.

And that's going to change eventually too.

[North Calaveras]

liberty is NOT a islamic value when you have things like taxes on christians which is definatley a part of islam.

Is it not? Could I take you back to the time of the first Caliphate? Or, I'll let John Green do it for me. The Islamic State.

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Is killing Jews a part of Christianity?

life liberty and the pursuit of happiness are all things not usually valued high in most islamic or middle eastern societys.

caliphates were also theocratic monarchys most of the time and treated many people like garbage.

[North Calaveras]

even a few decades back it still wasn't as bad as it is in the middle east, hell there was a chance you might get jumped or killed but it wasn't supported by the people to do these things and if you were caught you would be tried and jailed for murder.

And that's going to change eventually too.

not with islam

i find it hilarous how so many liberal/free thinking people can support Islam but take every opportunity to talk about how "bad" Christianity and the crusades were when Islamist have far more members and are a far more conservative force in the world today than any other religion.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Is it not? Could I take you back to the time of the first Caliphate? Or, I'll let John Green do it for me. The Islamic State.

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Is killing Jews a part of Christianity?

life liberty and the pursuit of happiness are all things not usually valued high in most islamic or middle eastern societys.

caliphates were also theocratic monarchys most of the time and treated many people like garbage.

As you can see in the video, no, they weren't. Freedom of religion and all. Benign Neglect. All the good stuff.

And what is that first statement based on? Because when I meet Muslims, they generally agree that life, liberty and happiness are pretty darn good things.

[North Calaveras]

life liberty and the pursuit of happiness are all things not usually valued high in most islamic or middle eastern societys.

caliphates were also theocratic monarchys most of the time and treated many people like garbage.

As you can see in the video, no, they weren't. Freedom of religion and all. Benign Neglect. All the good stuff.

And what is that first statement based on? Because when I meet Muslims, they generally agree that life, liberty and happiness are pretty darn good things.

they are a minority

how many muslims voted in favor of gay marriage latley?

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

As you can see in the video, no, they weren't. Freedom of religion and all. Benign Neglect. All the good stuff.

And what is that first statement based on? Because when I meet Muslims, they generally agree that life, liberty and happiness are pretty darn good things.

they are a minority

how many muslims voted in favor of gay marriage latley?

How many Americans voted in favour of gay marriage lately?

[Rio Cana]

I recommend the following video which has to do with the OP's question. The speaker is an African who is now a politician in the Netherlands. She actually lived the religion and tells us what she believes he problems are.

Video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14m5Fu1p_sI

[Blakk Metal]

no it wasn't

just cause there fighting dictators doesn't mean they really believe in freedom

in fact their idea of freedom seems to be "Freedom to express islamic tendecys"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Spring

Which then led to IS lol.

Democracy
Free elections
Human rights
Employment
Regime change
Islamization

those are the goals

islamization is in there buddy...

Certainly. But also democracy, free elections, human rights, employment and regime changes. It's not just islamization. Some groups, like the Muslim Brotherhood, were in favour. Others, like the Egyptian army, were against, as are the Syrian Free Armies. I will not deny that the Arab spring was partially religiously inspired. But certainly not for the majority. You seem to be getting my positions wrong.

The guys who 'accidentally' supply IS everyday?

the movement failed miserably though...it was the perfect time for the so called "vast majority of moderate muslims" to rise up but instead it sputtered and burnt out as fast as it came.

Muslim extremists, funded from abroad, had better weapons.

And why did they get more funding?

My pen is powerful, but an AK to my head is more powerful still. Which hasn't taken away that it has been tried. That's why there still is a Free Syrian Army in Syria.

Which helps IS everyday.

[Gavriilia]

The Problem isn't with Islam the problem is the poverty and economic and lack of opportunity in Western countries for minorities. For Europe the Muslim immigrants are an "other", human nature dictates that anything that has traits that are unfamiliar is threatening. In every large scale immigration there has been movements against them. Natives believe that their way of life is under threat. Give it some time you'll start to see normalization of relations between Europeans and migrating muslims. This will definitely take some time considering the way Europe still views the Romani people.

[North Calaveras]

they are a minority

how many muslims voted in favor of gay marriage latley?

How many Americans voted in favour of gay marriage lately?

enough to let me be married to my husband, which is all that counts.

btw check this nice map out of the world

red are UN nations that oppose LGBT rights

almost all are located within heavily islamic influenced regions of the world, but then again you might just say " Well it's cause their poor, or it's because their leaders or it's because of a minority of extremists"

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... UN.svg.png

until Islam respects lgbt rights, womens rights and generally the right of everyone to be free, they have no sympahty from me, it's 2015 and their is no amount of excuses which can cover this behavior. Yeah their so economically unstable yet everyone of them has a damn cellphone, they know what the outside world has to offer but they REFUSE to move with the times.

[Gavriilia]

How many Americans voted in favour of gay marriage lately?

enough to let me be married to my husband, which is all that counts.

btw check this nice map out of the world

red are UN nations that oppose LGBT rights

almost all are located within heavily islamic influenced regions of the world, but then again you might just say " Well it's cause their poor, or it's because their leaders or it's because of a minority of extremists"

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... UN.svg.png

until Islam respects lgbt rights, womens rights and generally the right of everyone to be free, they have no sympahty from me, it's 2015 and their is no amount of excuses which can cover this behavior. Yeah their so economically unstable yet everyone of them has a damn cellphone, they know what the outside world has to offer but they REFUSE to move with the times.

How truly ironic you claim to be the morally superior one for supporting LGTB rights yet you " Have no sympathy for Islam" did you ever think that maybe those individuals "have no sympathy" for your kind. truly a hypocritical statement.

[Steamtopia]

enough to let me be married to my husband, which is all that counts.

btw check this nice map out of the world

red are UN nations that oppose LGBT rights

almost all are located within heavily islamic influenced regions of the world, but then again you might just say " Well it's cause their poor, or it's because their leaders or it's because of a minority of extremists"

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... UN.svg.png

until Islam respects lgbt rights, womens rights and generally the right of everyone to be free, they have no sympahty from me, it's 2015 and their is no amount of excuses which can cover this behavior. Yeah their so economically unstable yet everyone of them has a damn cellphone, they know what the outside world has to offer but they REFUSE to move with the times.

How truly ironic you claim to be the morally superior one for supporting LGTB rights yet you " Have no sympathy for Islam" did you ever think that maybe those individuals "have no sympathy" for your kind. truly a hypocritical statement.

I don't see how. Sexuality isn't a choice. Religion is.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

How many Americans voted in favour of gay marriage lately?

enough to let me be married to my husband, which is all that counts.

btw check this nice map out of the world

red are UN nations that oppose LGBT rights

almost all are located within heavily islamic influenced regions of the world, but then again you might just say " Well it's cause their poor, or it's because their leaders or it's because of a minority of extremists"

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... UN.svg.png

until Islam respects lgbt rights, womens rights and generally the right of everyone to be free, they have no sympahty from me, it's 2015 and their is no amount of excuses which can cover this behavior. Yeah their so economically unstable yet everyone of them has a damn cellphone, they know what the outside world has to offer but they REFUSE to move with the times.

In 2000, the Netherlands legalised gay marriage. Unthinkable in many US states at the time, especially in your position. Don't ask, don't tell. Yet, would it have been fair for me to dispise every Christian, or every American because it was not legalised? No, I assumed you would get along in time. Would it be fair for me to dislike you because America opposed gay marriage? Of course not. I despise people for their opinion, not entire groups of people. Islam didn't make those people homophobes, just like being American didn't make you homophobe. Would've been a strange wedding night, I can imagine.

[Gavriilia]

How truly ironic you claim to be the morally superior one for supporting LGTB rights yet you " Have no sympathy for Islam" did you ever think that maybe those individuals "have no sympathy" for your kind. truly a hypocritical statement.

I don't see how. Sexuality isn't a choice. Religion is.

Religion isnt a "choice" its an identity, its a way of life/thinking. So by your logic its perfectly fine to opress someone for their identity but not their sexual preferences?

[North Calaveras]

enough to let me be married to my husband, which is all that counts.

btw check this nice map out of the world

red are UN nations that oppose LGBT rights

almost all are located within heavily islamic influenced regions of the world, but then again you might just say " Well it's cause their poor, or it's because their leaders or it's because of a minority of extremists"

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... UN.svg.png

until Islam respects lgbt rights, womens rights and generally the right of everyone to be free, they have no sympahty from me, it's 2015 and their is no amount of excuses which can cover this behavior. Yeah their so economically unstable yet everyone of them has a damn cellphone, they know what the outside world has to offer but they REFUSE to move with the times.

In 2000, the Netherlands legalised gay marriage. Unthinkable in many US states at the time, especially in your position. Don't ask, don't tell. Yet, would it have been fair for me to dispise every Christian, or every American because it was not legalised? No, I assumed you would get along in time. Would it be fair for me to dislike you because America opposed gay marriage? Of course not. I despise people for their opinion, not entire groups of people. Islam didn't make those people homophobes, just like being American didn't make you homophobe. Would've been a strange wedding night, I can imagine.

Were gay people have their heads cut off in the united states or hanged in 2000?

[Steamtopia]

I don't see how. Sexuality isn't a choice. Religion is.

Religion isnt a "choice" its an identity, its a way of life/thinking. So by your logic its perfectly fine to opress someone for their identity but not their sexual preferences?

Oppression is not the same as having no sympathy.

[North Calaveras]

Religion isnt a "choice" its an identity, its a way of life/thinking. So by your logic its perfectly fine to opress someone for their identity but not their sexual preferences?

Oppression is not the same as having no sympathy.

agreed, I don't wish to oppress Muslims by any means, I just dont' feel sorry for the situation their in.

[Gavriilia]

enough to let me be married to my husband, which is all that counts.

btw check this nice map out of the world

red are UN nations that oppose LGBT rights

almost all are located within heavily islamic influenced regions of the world, but then again you might just say " Well it's cause their poor, or it's because their leaders or it's because of a minority of extremists"

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... UN.svg.png

until Islam respects lgbt rights, womens rights and generally the right of everyone to be free, they have no sympahty from me, it's 2015 and their is no amount of excuses which can cover this behavior. Yeah their so economically unstable yet everyone of them has a damn cellphone, they know what the outside world has to offer but they REFUSE to move with the times.

In 2000, the Netherlands legalised gay marriage. Unthinkable in many US states at the time, especially in your position. Don't ask, don't tell. Yet, would it have been fair for me to dispise every Christian, or every American because it was not legalised? No, I assumed you would get along in time. Would it be fair for me to dislike you because America opposed gay marriage? Of course not. I despise people for their opinion, not entire groups of people. Islam didn't make those people homophobes, just like being American didn't make you homophobe. Would've been a strange wedding night, I can imagine.

^^^^^^^^^

[Mosaix]

How truly ironic you claim to be the morally superior one for supporting LGTB rights yet you " Have no sympathy for Islam" did you ever think that maybe those individuals "have no sympathy" for your kind. truly a hypocritical statement.

I don't see how. Sexuality isn't a choice. Religion is.

You're right. Sexuality isn't a choice, yet many people disagree on that too.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

In 2000, the Netherlands legalised gay marriage. Unthinkable in many US states at the time, especially in your position. Don't ask, don't tell. Yet, would it have been fair for me to dispise every Christian, or every American because it was not legalised? No, I assumed you would get along in time. Would it be fair for me to dislike you because America opposed gay marriage? Of course not. I despise people for their opinion, not entire groups of people. Islam didn't make those people homophobes, just like being American didn't make you homophobe. Would've been a strange wedding night, I can imagine.

Were gay people have their heads cut off in the united states or hanged in 2000?

Was the majority of Muslims doing that in 2000? Could you give me some reports?

Oppression is not the same as having no sympathy.

agreed, I don't wish to oppress Muslims by any means, I just dont' feel sorry for the situation their in.

Indeed, this evil Muslim fighter does not deserve your sympathy.

http://english.al-akhbar.com/sites/defa ... 082012.jpg