Europe's Problem With Islam

[The Empire of Pretantia]

No, another preconceived notion. Not everyone has an AK. And one AK isn't the same as the other. Anyway, the West supported the freedom fighters mostly in words, not in actual deeds. And the west left after the dictators had fallen. Really, those people don't want IS or Al Quada rule either. They are fighting, and they do give a shit. It's their country for crying out loud.

It dosn't matter because if the vast majority were not islamist then we wouldn't have this problem because the radicals would have been easily overrun, even with better weaponary, the popular support would still be on the "moderates" side

so in final, the "moderates" are full of shit.

You must support crime then.

[North Calaveras]

It dosn't matter because if the vast majority were not islamist then we wouldn't have this problem because the radicals would have been easily overrun, even with better weaponary, the popular support would still be on the "moderates" side

so in final, the "moderates" are full of shit.

You must support crime then.

that entirley depends on what's being defined as a "crime" now dosn't it?

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Which would be a wrong belief. Would you have said the same of George Washington, had he not received the necessary funding from the Netherlands and the troops from France? I doubt it. There is only so much you can do against better weapons and funding.

george washington was a rebel, not a religous extremist...

No, and the Free Syrian Army aren't religious extremists, either. That's my whole point. Had GW lost that war of yours, would you have said 'Well, he wasn't trying hard enough'? No, of course not. That's not how history works. That's not how war works. Do you understand what I was asking?

[North Calaveras]

george washington was a rebel, not a religous extremist...

No, and the Free Syrian Army aren't religious extremists, either. That's my whole point. Had GW lost that war of yours, would you have said 'Well, he wasn't trying hard enough'? No, of course not. That's not how history works. That's not how war works. Do you understand what I was asking?

yeah i understand how war works and how history works

But the people were referring to here do not have the same ideals

you said Egypt was a sucess with some struggles

i have a big problem with muslims/islam and the middle east for it's treatment of gay people, tell me how they are treated over there.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

You must support crime then.

that entirley depends on what's being defined as a "crime" now dosn't it?

Crime would be easily dealt with if we all pitched in and fought. Since we aren't, we're hypocrites who hate the police.

You see what I'm saying?

[Rio Cana]

I disagree, there is a very clear definition of the west. Wikipedia has an article if that helps make things more clear.

First paragraph: "...is a term referring to different nations depending on the context."

Yes, so very clear. I mean, it's downright scientific.

omg lets cut the shit

the west as an idea is generally about freedom, stable democratic/republic government and technological advancement through enlightened era-style ideals

that is more or less "the west" in a nutshell

Not a really clear definition, is it? Was Spain part of The West before 1977? Is Japan part of The West? South Korea? The West is an undefined set of countries of which we have a vague understanding but no clear outline. Like Islam, really.

Lets check if Spain was Western before 1977.

After reading the following it seems Spain was West before the West was West.

Read this - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visigothic_Code

For those that actually want to read this long book of ancient laws, this is the translation in English -
http://libro.uca.edu/vcode/visigoths.htm

[The Empire of Pretantia]

No, and the Free Syrian Army aren't religious extremists, either. That's my whole point. Had GW lost that war of yours, would you have said 'Well, he wasn't trying hard enough'? No, of course not. That's not how history works. That's not how war works. Do you understand what I was asking?

yeah i understand how war works and how history works

But the people were referring to here do not have the same ideals

you said Egypt was a sucess with some struggles

i have a big problem with muslims/islam and the middle east for it's treatment of gay people, tell me how they are treated over there.

We have no room to speak. Untilike recently we ourselves had persecuted homosexuals.

[North Calaveras]

that entirley depends on what's being defined as a "crime" now dosn't it?

Crime would be easily dealt with if we all pitched in and fought. Since we aren't, we're hypocrites who hate the police.

You see what I'm saying?

We are not legally able to do that because vigilantism is a crime

[North Calaveras]

yeah i understand how war works and how history works

But the people were referring to here do not have the same ideals

you said Egypt was a sucess with some struggles

i have a big problem with muslims/islam and the middle east for it's treatment of gay people, tell me how they are treated over there.

We have no room to speak. Untilike recently we ourselves had persecuted homosexuals.

we do have room to speak, because last I checked gays weren't being hanged in america.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

No, and the Free Syrian Army aren't religious extremists, either. That's my whole point. Had GW lost that war of yours, would you have said 'Well, he wasn't trying hard enough'? No, of course not. That's not how history works. That's not how war works. Do you understand what I was asking?

yeah i understand how war works and how history works

But the people were referring to here do not have the same ideals

you said Egypt was a sucess with some struggles

i have a big problem with muslims/islam and the middle east for it's treatment of gay people, tell me how they are treated over there.

That doesn't matter. An ideal doesn't make a lead ball go further, nor does it keep powder dry. George Washington is like the moderates in these conflicts. Undermanned, underfunded, facing a vastly superior foe. Without foreign aid, he would never have gotten that far. That's not because he didn't want to get blood on his hands, but because he didn't have the equipment. The same goes for the moderates in the Arab world.

Not much better than they treat gays in Christian Mexico, in orthodox Russia and in the US, I'm afraid. But those are issues that need to be dealt with in the future. They can't magically turn into a super-modern liberal state. Not like this, at least.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Crime would be easily dealt with if we all pitched in and fought. Since we aren't, we're hypocrites who hate the police.

You see what I'm saying?

We are not legally able to do that because vigilantism is a crime

But I didn't say we all had to be vigilantes. By not actively helping the police we are clearly actually latent criminals who secretly support criminals.

Just because the majority isn't helping, doesn't mean they support the regime. It's like in the June Revolution.

[North Calaveras]

yeah i understand how war works and how history works

But the people were referring to here do not have the same ideals

you said Egypt was a sucess with some struggles

i have a big problem with muslims/islam and the middle east for it's treatment of gay people, tell me how they are treated over there.

That doesn't matter. An ideal doesn't make a lead ball go further, nor does it keep powder dry. George Washington is like the moderates in these conflicts. Undermanned, underfunded, facing a vastly superior foe. Without foreign aid, he would never have gotten that far. That's not because he didn't want to get blood on his hands, but because he didn't have the equipment. The same goes for the moderates in the Arab world.

Not much better than they treat gays in Christian Mexico, in orthodox Russia and in the US, I'm afraid. But those are issues that need to be dealt with in the future. They can't magically turn into a super-modern liberal state. Not like this, at least.

The mere fact that they have so much opposition in the form of islamists in the egyptian voting porcess blows the whole "most of them are freedom loving" out of the water.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

First paragraph: "...is a term referring to different nations depending on the context."

Yes, so very clear. I mean, it's downright scientific.


Not a really clear definition, is it? Was Spain part of The West before 1977? Is Japan part of The West? South Korea? The West is an undefined set of countries of which we have a vague understanding but no clear outline. Like Islam, really.

Lets check if Spain was Western before 1977.

After reading the following it seems Spain was West before the West was West.

Read this - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visigothic_Code

For those that actually want to read this long book of ancient laws, this is the translation in English -
http://libro.uca.edu/vcode/visigoths.htm

Last I checked, Spain had a brutal dictator before 1977.

Anyway, I'll read the law code... Sounds like great fun to me. But that might just be me...

[The Empire of Pretantia]

We have no room to speak. Untilike recently we ourselves had persecuted homosexuals.

we do have room to speak, because last I checked gays weren't being hanged in america.

So? Persecution is persecution. They'lol grow out of it with time.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

That doesn't matter. An ideal doesn't make a lead ball go further, nor does it keep powder dry. George Washington is like the moderates in these conflicts. Undermanned, underfunded, facing a vastly superior foe. Without foreign aid, he would never have gotten that far. That's not because he didn't want to get blood on his hands, but because he didn't have the equipment. The same goes for the moderates in the Arab world.

Not much better than they treat gays in Christian Mexico, in orthodox Russia and in the US, I'm afraid. But those are issues that need to be dealt with in the future. They can't magically turn into a super-modern liberal state. Not like this, at least.

The mere fact that they have so much opposition in the form of islamists in the egyptian voting porcess blows the whole "most of them are freedom loving" out of the water.

And why does it, exactly?

[North Calaveras]

we do have room to speak, because last I checked gays weren't being hanged in america.

So? Persecution is persecution. They'lol grow out of it with time.

no, there is a huge difference between being called a fag and being murdered.

[North Calaveras]

The mere fact that they have so much opposition in the form of islamists in the egyptian voting porcess blows the whole "most of them are freedom loving" out of the water.

And why does it, exactly?

because their Islamists? idk, that's just a crazy idea I have that they are mostly islamists and really don't care about democracy unless it suits their own needs.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

So? Persecution is persecution. They'lol grow out of it with time.

no, there is a huge difference between being called a fag and being murdered.

yes, there is. And that problem too lies with economic disenfranchisement, not with Islam itself.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

So? Persecution is persecution. They'lol grow out of it with time.

no, there is a huge difference between being called a fag and being murdered.

It's all persecution regardless. Both hated gays; the only difference was the extent they showed it.

[Utrinque Paratus]

I have an issue with most religions as they advocate the hatred of homosexuals and pretty much anyone different from them. Of course, there are moderate religious people but a concerning amount of extremists in both Islam and Christianity. My personal opinion is that the world would be better off without them all.

[North Calaveras]

no, there is a huge difference between being called a fag and being murdered.

yes, there is. And that problem too lies with economic disenfranchisement, not with Islam itself.

omg it's always someone or something elses fault isn't it?

nope, it's never the ideology or religion or political belief that causes issues

just a bunch of victims.

[North Calaveras]

no, there is a huge difference between being called a fag and being murdered.

It's all persecution regardless. Both hated gays; the only difference was the extent they showed it.

im a gay soldier who is MARRIED to his husband in the United States

I'm living a GREAT LIFE

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

And why does it, exactly?

because their Islamists? idk, that's just a crazy idea I have that they are mostly islamists and really don't care about democracy unless it suits their own needs.

Moderates in Egypt weren't outvoted by islamists. They were outvoted by a minority voting for the Muslim Brotherhood, because the various Islamic groups united under a single banner, unlike the moderates, who were divided. Even then, the Muslim Brotherhood didn't just receive votes from Islamists. Mursi promised a secular state, with some Islamic values (love for the family, life and liberty, all that). So, no, Egypt isn't filled with Islamists.

[North Calaveras]

because their Islamists? idk, that's just a crazy idea I have that they are mostly islamists and really don't care about democracy unless it suits their own needs.

Moderates in Egypt weren't outvoted by islamists. They were outvoted by a minority voting for the Muslim Brotherhood, because the various Islamic groups united under a single banner, unlike the moderates, who were divided. Even then, the Muslim Brotherhood didn't just receive votes from Islamists. Mursi promised a secular state, with some Islamic values (love for the family, life and liberty, all that). So, no, Egypt isn't filled with Islamists.

liberty is NOT a islamic value when you have things like taxes on christians which is definatley a part of islam.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

yes, there is. And that problem too lies with economic disenfranchisement, not with Islam itself.

omg it's always someone or something elses fault isn't it?

nope, it's never the ideology or religion or political belief that causes issues

just a bunch of victims.

It surely is the fault of some people. But the reason lies in economic disenfranchisement, not just in Islam. And you need to get that point in your head. Fighting Islam won't do us much good. Improving the economy will.