Criticisms of Feminism

[Soldati Senza Confini]

The only problem I see here is where they note that "child care" is only "natural and expected". No it isn't. Most tech female workers get into tech jobs and have to leave because of this silly notion that they should not provide women maternity leave or something similar to that.

It makes female tech professionals not only more adverse to a tech firm but also more prone to not get into the tech industry at all. So dismissing the whole child care issue is just careless.

Did you know that men don't get paternity leave at all ? In fact: in most countries he doesn't even get a paid day off to support his wife when she is giving birth. The woman on the other hand gets a lavish maternity leave. While this may or may not be deserved: she is, then, out of the workforce and thus more expensive (as it is paid leave, an expense for the company which goes uncompensated by her work for the company).

And does that mean that just because men do not get paternity leave women don't deserve it?

"Ah well my life is fucked so I will fuck up yours", is that it? Because that's what it sounds like. While I agree there should be a paternity leave too maternity leave many times just means "sunk money" for businesses, and that's hardly the case. Many businesses, especially in the tech industry can also be made from home, so it doesn't make sense to be saying "well it is an expense for the company" -- it hardly isn't.

[Free Tristania]

3. Would you rather be saved by a female fire-fighter or by a male one ? Who would be the better nurse ? The man or the woman ? Exactly.

Are you serious?
1. I'd rather be saved by whomever was able and willing to save me regardless of his or her gender. I have met quite a few male and female firefighters and all of them would be more than qualified.

As for nurses: I'd rather be treated by the most skilled nurse. I think it would be stupid to pick a less skilled nurse simply because of his or her gender.

It's hard to imagine that maintaining sexism is so important to people that they would rather risk their lives than be treated by someone who does not fit an arbitrary gender role.

1. Men are physically stronger and thus more built for that particular task. This is nature and nature doesn't do "fair and equal".

2. Most of which happen to be women - also because women are, by their character, more empathic and better at healing people then we men are. This is a given.

[Korouse]

You should've changed the title to "Why Feminazism is wrong" so we could've all agreed that misandry was wrong and at least have a pleasant conversation...

[Free Tristania]

Did you know that men don't get paternity leave at all ? In fact: in most countries he doesn't even get a paid day off to support his wife when she is giving birth. The woman on the other hand gets a lavish maternity leave. While this may or may not be deserved: she is, then, out of the workforce and thus more expensive (as it is paid leave, an expense for the company which goes uncompensated by her work for the company).

And does that mean that just because men do not get paternity leave women don't deserve it?

"Ah well my life is fucked so I will fuck up yours", is that it? Because that's what it sounds like. While I agree there should be a paternity leave too maternity leave many times just means "sunk money" for businesses, and that's hardly the case. Many businesses, especially in the tech industry can also be made from home, so it doesn't make sense to be saying "well it is an expense for the company" -- it hardly isn't.

May - or could. But isn't. So: it's lost labour for the company. In fact - from a business perspective it would be that hiring a woman in the maritable age is a risk. A risk - that is perhaps calculated into her wage. If she gets a child she is away and thus labour is lost.

[Korouse]

Are you serious?
1. I'd rather be saved by whomever was able and willing to save me regardless of his or her gender. I have met quite a few male and female firefighters and all of them would be more than qualified.

As for nurses: I'd rather be treated by the most skilled nurse. I think it would be stupid to pick a less skilled nurse simply because of his or her gender.

It's hard to imagine that maintaining sexism is so important to people that they would rather risk their lives than be treated by someone who does not fit an arbitrary gender role.

1. Men are physically stronger and thus more built for that particular task. This is nature and nature doesn't do "fair and equal".

2. Most of which happen to be women - also because women are, by their character, more empathic and better at healing people then we men are. This is a given.

But men and women (in some cases) have the same requirements for training. Thus, they must be equally fit for the task.

Also, everybody's personality is different. It isn't confined by ones gender.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Are you serious?
1. I'd rather be saved by whomever was able and willing to save me regardless of his or her gender. I have met quite a few male and female firefighters and all of them would be more than qualified.

As for nurses: I'd rather be treated by the most skilled nurse. I think it would be stupid to pick a less skilled nurse simply because of his or her gender.

It's hard to imagine that maintaining sexism is so important to people that they would rather risk their lives than be treated by someone who does not fit an arbitrary gender role.

1. Men are physically stronger and thus more built for that particular task. This is nature and nature doesn't do "fair and equal".

2. Most of which happen to be women - also because women are, by their character, more empathic and better at healing people then we men are. This is a given.

Errr... no, men can be weaker than women for a particular task, oftentimes more so than women. A woman can do the same job as a man, if not better. If I had to hire two people to dig trenches and the woman is better and faster at digging trenches than a man she's the one I'm hiring, not the man who is a lazy sack of shit. "But women don't need that job!" you might say, and that the man needs it; tough shit, she is better.

Women can also be less empathetic than a man in nursing and even if they are not they can sometimes be even more capable at doing their job.

[Free Tristania]

1. Have they been out of the work force when they got married (because they conceived a child) ? Meaning: they have less experience.

2. Read the article and don't be lazy.

3. Would you rather be saved by a female fire-fighter or by a male one ? Who would be the better nurse ? The man or the woman ? Exactly.

4. The mythical pay gap.

1. You seem to think every woman who has married and is expecting children just goes "welp, time to get out of the workforce, fuck this". Hint: that's not what happens often.

2. You just posted it and I read it and gave my response above. Stop calling me lazy when I just replied to your report. I guess you expect me to read 1000 words per minute?

3. I don't care which sex they are. I know women who are firefighters and men who are nurses. The fact you are making stupid stereotypes to back up an asinine argument is telling.

4. The pay gap exists because of a multitude of reasons. Some reasonable and some not so reasonable.

1. Wrong. In a lot of countries (including my own) such leave is COMPULSORY.

3. You must be a miracle men: because there are very female fire-fighters but some male nurses. Women, in general, are not built for the job of fire-fighters. That is nature.

[Free Tristania]

1. Men are physically stronger and thus more built for that particular task. This is nature and nature doesn't do "fair and equal".

2. Most of which happen to be women - also because women are, by their character, more empathic and better at healing people then we men are. This is a given.

But men and women (in some cases) have the same requirements for training. Thus, they must be equally fit for the task.

Also, everybody's personality is different. It isn't confined by ones gender.

Then explain to me why so few women become fire-fighters or work in steel factories ? And don't come with social construct nonsense.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

And does that mean that just because men do not get paternity leave women don't deserve it?

"Ah well my life is fucked so I will fuck up yours", is that it? Because that's what it sounds like. While I agree there should be a paternity leave too maternity leave many times just means "sunk money" for businesses, and that's hardly the case. Many businesses, especially in the tech industry can also be made from home, so it doesn't make sense to be saying "well it is an expense for the company" -- it hardly isn't.

May - or could. But isn't. So: it's lost labour for the company. In fact - from a business perspective it would be that hiring a woman in the maritable age is a risk. A risk - that is perhaps calculated into her wage. If she gets a child she is away and thus labour is lost.

It's a risk, but that doesn't mean the woman should be penalized for being married.

Do we penalize students simply because they are students coming to get a job?

[Free Tristania]

1. Men are physically stronger and thus more built for that particular task. This is nature and nature doesn't do "fair and equal".

2. Most of which happen to be women - also because women are, by their character, more empathic and better at healing people then we men are. This is a given.

Errr... no, men can be weaker than women for a particular task, oftentimes more so than women. A woman can do the same job as a man, if not better. If I had to hire two people to dig trenches and the woman is better and faster at digging trenches than a man she's the one I'm hiring, not the man who is a lazy sack of shit. "But women don't need that job!" you might say, and that the man needs it; tough shit, she is better.

Women can also be less empathetic than a man in nursing and even if they are not they can sometimes be even more capable at doing their job.

Then you need to explain to me why so few women are found in these jobs. No feminist nonsense - just what it is.

[Natapoc]

Are you serious?
1. I'd rather be saved by whomever was able and willing to save me regardless of his or her gender. I have met quite a few male and female firefighters and all of them would be more than qualified.

As for nurses: I'd rather be treated by the most skilled nurse. I think it would be stupid to pick a less skilled nurse simply because of his or her gender.

It's hard to imagine that maintaining sexism is so important to people that they would rather risk their lives than be treated by someone who does not fit an arbitrary gender role.

1. Men are physically stronger and thus more built for that particular task. This is nature and nature doesn't do "fair and equal".

2. Most of which happen to be women - also because women are, by their character, more empathic and better at healing people then we men are. This is a given.

No it's not "nature". It's true that statistically men are more likely to be physically stronger than women but there are many women who are more than strong enough to do the job. Choosing a less qualified individual man just because the more qualified individual woman is female is against your self interest.

Likewise, some women are mean, cruel, and totally lack empathy (Just like some men)

And some men are very empathetic and nurturing.

I am having a hard time believing you really think this way.

[Free Tristania]

May - or could. But isn't. So: it's lost labour for the company. In fact - from a business perspective it would be that hiring a woman in the maritable age is a risk. A risk - that is perhaps calculated into her wage. If she gets a child she is away and thus labour is lost.

It's a risk, but that doesn't mean the woman should be penalized for being married.

Do we penalize students simply because they are students coming to get a job?

1. It's not a penalty as she has been granted money by the company to last through a period of delivery. Money paid for by that same company. Nothing comes for free.

2. In fact: they are penalised. They have to pay off huge debts and a lot of them have to make due with low-paying jobs for which they are overqualified.

[Free Tristania]

1. Men are physically stronger and thus more built for that particular task. This is nature and nature doesn't do "fair and equal".

2. Most of which happen to be women - also because women are, by their character, more empathic and better at healing people then we men are. This is a given.

No it's not "nature". It's true that statistically men are more likely to be physically stronger than women

Then what is it ? Why would most men be stronger than women ?

[Korouse]

1. Men are physically stronger and thus more built for that particular task. This is nature and nature doesn't do "fair and equal".

2. Most of which happen to be women - also because women are, by their character, more empathic and better at healing people then we men are. This is a given.

No it's not "nature". It's true that statistically men are more likely to be physically stronger than women but there are many women who are more than strong enough to do the job. Choosing a less qualified individual man just because the more qualified individual woman is female is against your self interest.

Likewise, some women are mean, cruel, and totally lack empathy (Just like some men)

And some men are very empathetic and nurturing.

I am having a hard time believing you really think this way.

Well no. He actually has a point where men are "stronger" than women. It's true that men grow stronger muscles/larger bones.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

1. You seem to think every woman who has married and is expecting children just goes "welp, time to get out of the workforce, fuck this". Hint: that's not what happens often.

2. You just posted it and I read it and gave my response above. Stop calling me lazy when I just replied to your report. I guess you expect me to read 1000 words per minute?

3. I don't care which sex they are. I know women who are firefighters and men who are nurses. The fact you are making stupid stereotypes to back up an asinine argument is telling.

4. The pay gap exists because of a multitude of reasons. Some reasonable and some not so reasonable.

1. Wrong. In a lot of countries (including my own) such leave is COMPULSORY.

3. You must be a miracle men: because there are very female fire-fighters but some male nurses. Women, in general, are not built for the job of fire-fighters. That is nature.

It is compulsory, not voluntary. You might as well argue why men are drafted into the selective service but women aren't. If something is compulsory it is stupid to argue "BUT ZEH WYMMINS" Because we don't know what women think, if they want to keep working or being a mother.

No, I am just not someone who stereotypes genders. I've worked alongside women, and sometimes they are just better than men at physical labor. Sorry that your narrative doesn't hold water in reality.

[Korouse]

But men and women (in some cases) have the same requirements for training. Thus, they must be equally fit for the task.

Also, everybody's personality is different. It isn't confined by ones gender.

Then explain to me why so few women become fire-fighters or work in steel factories ? And don't come with social construct nonsense.

That doesn't matter in the case of who you'd rather be saved or cared by.

[Natapoc]

No it's not "nature". It's true that statistically men are more likely to be physically stronger than women but there are many women who are more than strong enough to do the job. Choosing a less qualified individual man just because the more qualified individual woman is female is against your self interest.

Likewise, some women are mean, cruel, and totally lack empathy (Just like some men)

And some men are very empathetic and nurturing.

I am having a hard time believing you really think this way.

Well no. He actually has a point where men are "stronger" than women. It's true that men grow stronger muscles/larger bones.

Is every individual woman weaker than every individual man?

[Free Tristania]

1. Wrong. In a lot of countries (including my own) such leave is COMPULSORY.

3. You must be a miracle men: because there are very female fire-fighters but some male nurses. Women, in general, are not built for the job of fire-fighters. That is nature.

It is compulsory, not voluntary. You might as well argue why men are drafted into the selective service but women aren't. If something is compulsory it is stupid to argue "BUT ZEH WYMMINS" Because we don't know what women think, if they want to keep working or being a mother.

No, I am just not someone who stereotypes genders. I've worked alongside women, and sometimes they are just better than men at physical labor. Sorry that your narrative doesn't hold water in reality.

You're probably the only one that has seen that then because:

Risk is another factor. Nearly all the most dangerous occupations, such as loggers or iron workers, are majority male and 92% of work-related deaths in 2012 were to men. Dangerous jobs tend to pay higher salaries to attract workers. Also: Males are more likely to pursue occupations where compensation is risky from year to year, such as law and finance. Research shows that average pay in such jobs is higher to compensate for that risk.

The VAST majority of women pursue different careers:

Education also matters. Even within groups with the same educational attainment, women often choose fields of study, such as sociology, liberal arts or psychology, that pay less in the labor market. Men are more likely to major in finance, accounting or engineering. And as the American Association of University Women reports, men are four times more likely to bargain over salaries once they enter the job market.

Which corresponds with my own observations: just about every woman I have met so far is: either in a service job, nursing, IT, psychology or accounting etc.

[Free Tristania]

Then explain to me why so few women become fire-fighters or work in steel factories ? And don't come with social construct nonsense.

That doesn't matter in the case of who you'd rather be saved or cared by.

Your odds would be better if the one saving you would be stronger.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Errr... no, men can be weaker than women for a particular task, oftentimes more so than women. A woman can do the same job as a man, if not better. If I had to hire two people to dig trenches and the woman is better and faster at digging trenches than a man she's the one I'm hiring, not the man who is a lazy sack of shit. "But women don't need that job!" you might say, and that the man needs it; tough shit, she is better.

Women can also be less empathetic than a man in nursing and even if they are not they can sometimes be even more capable at doing their job.

Then you need to explain to me why so few women are found in these jobs. No feminist nonsense - just what it is.

Simple: women always think it is a man's job. We coddle women into thinking they don't need to get their hands dirty, that they are better than the dig trencher, and men to think nursing is not for them, that our place is in the financial world or doing hard labor.

Women who are raised to not be afraid of a shovel or manual labor are typically more capable of getting jobs that require hard labor. How many women do you know their parents take them and go "you're going to rake leaves for an allowance" or "you're going with me to a client's house for some lawn sprinkler job I have"?

[Free Tristania]

Then you need to explain to me why so few women are found in these jobs. No feminist nonsense - just what it is.

Simple: women always think it is a man's job. We coddle women into thinking they don't need to get their hands dirty, that they are better than the dig trencher, and men to think nursing is not for them, that our place is in the financial world or doing hard labor.

Women who are raised to not be afraid of a shovel or manual labor are typically more capable of getting jobs that require hard labor. How many women do you know their parents take them and go "you're going to rake leaves for an allowance" or "you're going with me to a client's house for some lawn sprinkler job I have"?

Then you still haven't explained simple biology: why men develop more muscle than women ?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

No it's not "nature". It's true that statistically men are more likely to be physically stronger than women but there are many women who are more than strong enough to do the job. Choosing a less qualified individual man just because the more qualified individual woman is female is against your self interest.

Likewise, some women are mean, cruel, and totally lack empathy (Just like some men)

And some men are very empathetic and nurturing.

I am having a hard time believing you really think this way.

Well no. He actually has a point where men are "stronger" than women. It's true that men grow stronger muscles/larger bones.

Well, in general men can develop stronger muscles and larger bones.

The key word is "can"; just because I can look like Chuck Norris doesn't mean I look like Chuck Norris.

[The Joseon Dynasty]

I'm in this weird place where I'm supportive of a lot of feminism's core ideas, but I really don't enjoy the feminist community. The way feminist topics are debated and discussed is often hugely unappealing to me; and not just the tone of the debates, but also what's considered legitimate supportive evidence and what isn't. Anecdotes are sometimes "lived experiences" and totally okay, and sometimes they're not. Sometimes really weak statistical analyses are okay (like with the Ban Bossy campaign) and sometimes they're not (like with analyses of the gender wage gap). In general, it feels like you're all in or you're all out; either you agree with all of the claims that feminism puts forward or you don't agree with feminism. I doubt that's the intention of feminists, but it's certainly how it comes across.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Simple: women always think it is a man's job. We coddle women into thinking they don't need to get their hands dirty, that they are better than the dig trencher, and men to think nursing is not for them, that our place is in the financial world or doing hard labor.

Women who are raised to not be afraid of a shovel or manual labor are typically more capable of getting jobs that require hard labor. How many women do you know their parents take them and go "you're going to rake leaves for an allowance" or "you're going with me to a client's house for some lawn sprinkler job I have"?

Then you still haven't explained simple biology: why men develop more muscle than women ?

Men can develop more muscle than women, doesn't mean they do.

A woman can be much stronger than a man, if she is much healthier and much more active than the man in question.

[Korouse]

Well no. He actually has a point where men are "stronger" than women. It's true that men grow stronger muscles/larger bones.

Is every individual woman weaker than every individual man?

Nope.

But that's the "biological trait" of the male sex.