Criticisms of Feminism

[The Althing Confederacy]

More than an hour and a half without a response let alone a rebuttal!
Yet AGAIN all I hear are the crickets!
HELL! Even on Xmas, and New years day I had more responses; even my supposedly oppressed wife is laughing at you (though she is also laughing at me for spending time on NS)!

[Ostroeuropa]

While its true that she, and her followers are "extremists"; How about the poularity of misandry among feminists in general, and misandrist feminist swag that is accepted due to feminism.
Such as the the fashionable "Misandry" berrettes, and T-shirts that proclaim "Boys suck through rocks at them!"?
If men pulled the equivalent they would be crucified (and rightfully so)!
Furthermore Feminists decry the objectification of women, yet enjoy the right to treat men as ATM's (I wont date a man unless he makes X amount of money, and will spend it on her, supporting her, while being a paragon of male beauty), despite the fact if women are equal then they should share that financial burden (leaving aside the expectations of physical beauty). Further more the next time you see women shopping look at their shopping bags (and a lot of media advertising geared towards them) it usually depicts half naked men posing in a sexual and/or submissive manner (again unacceptable to them if reversed, yet ignoring that neither should be acceptable if equality is the true objective).

While I could go on, I'll end with this vid by Karen Straughan: Not that I expect anything more than an unsaid TL;DR.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w__PJ8ymliw&feature=player_detailpage
PS. I must note you haven't weighed in on the insanity going on in Sweden.

What berets are you referring to?

Besides, feminists already acknowledge sexism hurts men and actively attack it.

Some feminists.
Others merely acknowledge it.
Others don't even go that far.
And a lot of them refuse to accept it's sexism against men.
You may as well have said, Besides, Republicans already acknowledge LGBT rights.

[Stagnant Axon Terminal]

More than an hour and a half without a response let alone a rebuttal!
Yet AGAIN all I hear are the crickets!
HELL! Even on Xmas, and New years day I had more responses; even my supposedly oppressed wife is laughing at you (though she is also laughing at me for spending time on NS)!

Yeah it's early, early morning in the country where the majority of NS resides.

[Stagnant Axon Terminal]

What berets are you referring to?
Such as these:
(Image)


While strong women who fight to achieve and preserve equality between genders do exist (and often misrepresent themselves as feminists); the feminist movement in general disagrees.
Here is a man ("y" chromosome; we lose) who expresses this far more eloquently than I can (though personally I feel little if any need for MRA'S).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tS-yXY__pAo&feature=player_detailpage

First off, those berets are a j-o-k-e. It's a pretty long running gag between feminists who can take things lightly.

Also no, I am not misrepresented. I am a feminist. I know that sexism hurts men and I, and 98% of feminists I've ever met (aka fucking thousands) are for complete and utter equality in law and society. ~Still a fucking feminist~

[The Althing Confederacy]

What berets are you referring to?
Such as these:
(Image)


While strong women who fight to achieve and preserve equality between genders do exist (and often misrepresent themselves as feminists); the feminist movement in general disagrees.
Here is a man ("y" chromosome; we lose) who expresses this far more eloquently than I can (though personally I feel little if any need for MRA'S).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tS-yXY__pAo&feature=player_detailpage

First off, those berets are a j-o-k-e. It's a pretty long running gag between feminists who can take things lightly.

Also no, I am not misrepresented. I am a feminist. I know that sexism hurts men and I, and 98% of feminists I've ever met (aka fucking thousands) are for complete and utter equality in law and society. ~Still a fucking feminist~

Oh! Its just a "J-O-K-E"... Yet if a man makes a similar joke based on misogynism he would be taken to task if not crucified! And since it has history as a long running gag that somehow makes it better!?!?!?
You may not be misrepresenting yourself as a feminist; though your statement proves you care little if anything for actual equality.
Furthermore whatever percentage of feminists you have met (and you feel that swearing somehow reinforces your opinion)
and claim to be for "complete & utter equality" their (and your own) statements prove otherwise!

[Kelinfort]

What berets are you referring to?

Besides, feminists already acknowledge sexism hurts men and actively attack it.

Some feminists.
Others merely acknowledge it.
Others don't even go that far.
And a lot of them refuse to accept it's sexism against men.
You may as well have said, Besides, Republicans already acknowledge LGBT rights.

Holy false equivalency, batman. Does the feminist platform explicitly say men do not face sexism? No. Stop this nonsense.

[Kelinfort]

First off, those berets are a j-o-k-e. It's a pretty long running gag between feminists who can take things lightly.

Also no, I am not misrepresented. I am a feminist. I know that sexism hurts men and I, and 98% of feminists I've ever met (aka fucking thousands) are for complete and utter equality in law and society. ~Still a fucking feminist~

Oh! Its just a "J-O-K-E"... Yet if a man makes a similar joke based on misogynism he would be taken to task if not crucified! And since it has history as a long running gag that somehow makes it better!?!?!?
You may not be misrepresenting yourself as a feminist; though your statement proves you care little if anything for actual equality.
Furthermore whatever percentage of feminists you have met (and you feel that swearing somehow reinforces your opinion)
and claim to be for "complete & utter equality" their (and your own) statements prove otherwise!

Dude, idk where you've been. But guys make these kind of jokes all the time. Especially on the Internet.

What statements?! SAT has consistently supported measures against sexism, for males or females. You apparently haven't been here long enough to see her posts.

Whatever percentage of feminists you claim to be misandrists MUST be true...because you've met so many. And you apparently speak for them.

[Susurruses]

PEOPLE WITH A SENSE OF HUMOUR ONLY:

_{Just wait till he finds out about the 'male tears' mugs...}

[Ragnarum]

PEOPLE WITH A SENSE OF HUMOUR ONLY:

_{Just wait till he finds out about the 'male tears' mugs...}

You mean the ones made and produced by MRA groups as a pisstake?

[Tahar Joblis]

PEOPLE WITH A SENSE OF HUMOUR ONLY:

_{Just wait till he finds out about the 'male tears' mugs...}

You mean the ones made and produced by MRA groups as a pisstake?

You mean the ones actual feminists buy and use?

The "joke" is the idea that misandry is impossible. The reality is that sexist discrimination against men exists; and that there are, in fact, people who vitriolically hate men. Denying the existence of misandry on the basis of ideology is pretty sick.

[Arkhadija]

We see both extremes, and i did see this post go on a bit of a tangent. The analogy was great, but it ignored the fact that gender roles are caused by something, it's baically like getting a blister from burning yourself and then tryig to burn the blister off. All feminism is trying to do is make gender treatment equal. Yes, being soft and sensitive as a guy is considered a pussy, but considered by whom? Ignorant, straight, white, uneducated males who have built up hate. The thing is, I'm not hating on whites, heterosexuals, or males because I am one, I just think the hate is misplaced due to the uneducation. If you were soft and sensitive, those guys would call you a fag, but to a group of girls, you've gained their support.

In synopsis, those same douchebags who don't understand that by inherent birth right of skin color and sex, they don't understand the hate they've caused through history and they don't understand the pain they've caused, but somehow they"ve managed to be the pinnacle of society. Now simply enough, the people who think pain is for pussies almost always glorify the military, they think sensitivity is for pussies but they are heartless and inflict pain for their amusement. It's all a common pattern. Of course, we can't tell them what to think, and in my view morals are all relativistic, but simply enough, they are hurtful and close minded.

Now, feminism. Feminism is the belief that women are treated like shit in this society both in law and in common courtesy, etc. do not confuse this with misandry. We have all seen those tumblr posts of some crazy chick saying they want to castrate their son because the presence of their dick is oppressive, but that's all misguided hate of masculinity, which is misandry. If you google the definition of feminism, it's equality, not superiority. Now feminism is the reason we have women voting right now, getting jobs right now. This isn't leviticus where women and slaves were property where they were both seen as baby and food makers and belong to whatever man could get them. That isn't the world we live in thanks to the egalitarian belief known as feminism.

Lastly, Feminism in action. No moral quality should ever be seen as right or wrong, since there are so many different beliefs in this world, and I was born in a second world country, so I know the culture of two different worlds. West says east is wrong, and east says west is wrong, but can you be wrong for being raised on something or being born in a certain place? You can't, because you simply can't help it. It was not you who chose to be born somewhere, it was your parents in due time. So it would also be stupid to blame your parents for raising you on somethong they knew in their heart to be "right", but in a different family they also think it's right to believe what they believe. Feminism is a necessity because those in third world countries are forced to believe that a certain gender is in rule, I cannot say that they're wrong, but I can say that the women there are being forced into a system where hatred of women and degradation is a consequence of their beliefs.

Feminism is a necessity for the belief in equality.

[Natapoc]

You mean the ones made and produced by MRA groups as a pisstake?

You mean the ones actual feminists buy and use?

The "joke" is the idea that misandry is impossible. The reality is that sexist discrimination against men exists; and that there are, in fact, people who vitriolically hate men. Denying the existence of misandry on the basis of ideology is pretty sick.

LOL some of those products are pretty funny. I looked and the parent company of lookhuman.com (referenced in your link) was cofounded by a woman so I'll probably buy a few.

Here is the thing with misandry.
Yes, some individuals do hate men.
Entire cultures nations, and mainstream ideologies are founded on the basis of hating women.

[Susurruses]

You mean the ones actual feminists buy and use?

The "joke" is the idea that misandry is impossible. The reality is that sexist discrimination against men exists; and that there are, in fact, people who vitriolically hate men. Denying the existence of misandry on the basis of ideology is pretty sick.

LOL some of those products are pretty funny. I looked and the parent company of lookhuman.com (referenced in your link) was cofounded by a woman so I'll probably buy a few.

Here is the thing with misandry.
Yes, some individuals do hate men.
Entire cultures nations, and mainstream ideologies are founded on the basis of hating women.

I wouldn't recommend purchasing from them; they're art thieves and general arseholes.

You hit the nail on the head with the difference between misogyny and misandry though.
_{(Also, I mean, the joke is largely aimed at the people that keep going "FEMINISM IS MISANDRY". Feminists get fucking tired of the bullshit and decide "Eh, whatever, may as well poke at the fools with a stick". Same idiots that scream about misandry take this as validation. Feminists are even more amused/annoyed. Repeat ad nauseum.)}

[Larthinia]

I wonder in how much time this thread's gonna get locked....

[The Confederacy of Nationalism]

I wonder in how much time this thread's gonna get locked....

it won't be

[Ragnarum]

You mean the ones actual feminists buy and use?

The "joke" is the idea that misandry is impossible. The reality is that sexist discrimination against men exists; and that there are, in fact, people who vitriolically hate men. Denying the existence of misandry on the basis of ideology is pretty sick.

LOL some of those products are pretty funny. I looked and the parent company of lookhuman.com (referenced in your link) was cofounded by a woman so I'll probably buy a few.

Here is the thing with misandry.
Yes, some individuals do hate men.
Entire cultures nations, and mainstream ideologies are founded on the basis of hating women.

No, they fucking don't. You know that isn't true, don't lie.

Yes, some individuals do hate men.

In the same way that some individuals hate women. Not entire fucking cultures, that is a flat out lie.

[Edgy Opinions]

In the same way that some individuals hate women. Not entire fucking cultures, that is a flat out lie.

Sexism can be institutional and structural/systemic.

Albeit that is not cultural, that's societal. In the same manner that capitalism as a class structure is arguably not cultural, but societal.

[Ragnarum]

In the same way that some individuals hate women. Not entire fucking cultures, that is a flat out lie.

Sexism can be institutional and structural/systemic.

Albeit that is not cultural, that's societal. In the same manner that capitalism as a class structure is arguably not cultural, but societal.

Sexism is sexism, it does not necessarily mean hate despite popular belief, but it is still obviously bad despite this. I agree that it can be structural, but only in societies and with attitudes that died out long ago and it was never really that blatant, particularly in western nations. I can't really say the same for other nations.

[Galloism]

You mean the ones actual feminists buy and use?

The "joke" is the idea that misandry is impossible. The reality is that sexist discrimination against men exists; and that there are, in fact, people who vitriolically hate men. Denying the existence of misandry on the basis of ideology is pretty sick.

LOL some of those products are pretty funny. I looked and the parent company of lookhuman.com (referenced in your link) was cofounded by a woman so I'll probably buy a few.

Here is the thing with misandry.
Yes, some individuals do hate men.
Entire cultures nations, and mainstream ideologies are founded on the basis of hating women.

Eh, this is undoubtedly true, but there are mainstream organizations which are invariably guilty of being sexist and hateful against men - even the men within that organization themselves treat men in a sexist manner comparatively to women.

For instance: the United States justice system

(Incidentally, this is not unusual: there were a number of prominent women who opposed women's suffrage and other gains of feminism over time.)

[Susurruses]

In the same way that some individuals hate women. Not entire fucking cultures, that is a flat out lie.

Sexism can be institutional and structural/systemic.

Albeit that is not cultural, that's societal. In the same manner that capitalism as a class structure is arguably not cultural, but societal.

Well, I mean, technically it does wind up engrained in the culture.
That's why such things are termed 'sociocultural'.

[Des-Bal]

Eh, this is undoubtedly true, but there are mainstream organizations which are invariably guilty of being sexist and hateful against men - even the men within that organization themselves treat men in a sexist manner comparatively to women.

For instance: the United States justice system

(Incidentally, this is not unusual: there were a number of prominent women who opposed women's suffrage and other gains of feminism over time.)

I think that's one of the problems with feminism and particularly the patriarchal narrative. It frames sexism as a men v women power struggle rather than a societal issue and leads to people confounded as to how a woman can possibly be accused of misogyny or a man accused of misandry. It's like being perplexed that one American could not possibly have negative feelings towards others and thus concluding the OKC bombing never happened.

[Galloism]

Eh, this is undoubtedly true, but there are mainstream organizations which are invariably guilty of being sexist and hateful against men - even the men within that organization themselves treat men in a sexist manner comparatively to women.

For instance: the United States justice system

(Incidentally, this is not unusual: there were a number of prominent women who opposed women's suffrage and other gains of feminism over time.)

I think that's one of the problems with feminism and particularly the patriarchal narrative. It frames sexism as a men v women power struggle rather than a societal issue and leads to people confounded as to how a woman can possibly be accused of misogyny or a man accused of misandry. It's like being perplexed that one American could not possibly have negative feelings towards others and thus concluding the OKC bombing never happened.

This post when off the logic rails somewhere and I missed it.

Come again?

[Des-Bal]

This post when off the logic rails somewhere and I missed it.

Come again?

Not sure what's confusing about it. Framing sexism as a men v. women problem draws lines that don't necessarily make sense. The result is a dangerous and inaccurate perception that there are "sides" and that those sides don't cross gender lines.

[Natapoc]

LOL some of those products are pretty funny. I looked and the parent company of lookhuman.com (referenced in your link) was cofounded by a woman so I'll probably buy a few.

Here is the thing with misandry.
Yes, some individuals do hate men.
Entire cultures nations, and mainstream ideologies are founded on the basis of hating women.

No, they fucking don't. You know that isn't true, don't lie.

Yes, some individuals do hate men.

In the same way that some individuals hate women. Not entire fucking cultures, that is a flat out lie.

Actually, it is true. And things are just starting to change for the better. Every nation on earth is patriarchal, some to a greater extent than others.

In the united states, it's only been a couple decades since it was fully legal for a guy to rape his wife. It was not until 1993 that it finally became illegal for a man to rape his wife in all 50 states. If systematic support of rape against women by men is not hate... What is?

And only a couple generations ago it was not even legal for a woman to vote or own land.

In countries like Saudi Arabia it is illegal for a woman to drive, and a woman can't even go out in public without her body being fully covered. While rapists are sometimes punished if there are enough witnesses, there is no penal code or written law specifically criminalizing rape. Meanwhile, the victim is generally given a harsher punishment than the rapist, which can include flogging, imprisonment, or even stoning.

All over the world women have had to fight for the right to have equality with men and although a lot of progress has been made in some countries, that fight is far from over. Female politicians and CEO's are still a rarity even in the countries where most progress has been made.

Most religions, even in the Western world, have fully supported this mistreatment and continue to do, often disallowing women from becoming pastors or priests, fighting against women's access to birth control, creating a permissive environment for domestic abuse to thrive by demanding that women submit to men and must not divorce.

The daily experience of being a woman in countries like America may not be quite as restrictive as it is in places that practice Sharia law, but women are still held to stricter standards than men with regards to covering their bodies, are still sexually objectified in the media at a higher rate than men, and are still generally hesitant to report rapes because of a broken criminal justice system in which most rapists go free or are given very light sentences even after being brought to trial.

It is legal in parts of America for employers to fire women for being too attractive, but also legal to fire women in certain professions for gaining a little weight, which essentially means that it is legal to fire a woman arbitrarily for how she looks whether she conforms to patriarchal beauty standards or not.

These are only a few examples of institutionalized misogyny. I could go on for days.

[Ragnarum]

Actually, it is true. And things are just starting to change for the better. Every nation on earth is patriarchal, some to a greater extent than others.

Absolute bullshit. Individuals are.

In the united states, it's only been a couple decades since it was fully legal for a guy to rape his wife. It was not until 1993 that it finally became illegal for a man to rape his wife in all 50 states. If systematic support of rape against women by men is not hate... What is?

""The criminalization of marital rape in the United States started in the mid-1970s and by 1993 marital rape became a crime in all 50 states""

I do not live in the US, but there are plenty of states that do not allow gay marriage still, you cannot simply pretend a culture exists to explain that like you have with this.
I'm not sure if you have noticed, but it isn't 1993 at this moment in time, that's actually 21 years ago. 21 years is a long time for social attitudes these days. I do not believe that that law or the lack of that law particularly illustrates "hate for women" either, I think that is something completely different.
Would you say people in the mid 1800's hated women with a passion because they barely had any rights? Because I do not believe that to be true at all.

And only a couple generations ago it was not even legal for a woman to vote or own land.

It still isn't in some places, but we will discuss them later. The change for the US came in 1920. That's a fucking long time ago.

In countries like Saudi Arabia it is illegal for a woman to drive, and a woman can't even go out in public without her body being fully covered. While rapists are sometimes punished if there are enough witnesses, there is no penal code or written law specifically criminalizing rape. Meanwhile, the victim is generally given a harsher punishment than the rapist, which can include flogging, imprisonment, or even stoning.

Yes, we all know about those places and how it is fucking deplorable, what you seem to be arguing for is that its still the same now in socially developed countries, which quite frankly I find utterly ludicrous.

All over the world women have had to fight for the right to have equality with men and although a lot of progress has been made in some countries, that fight is far from over. Female politicians and CEO's are still a rarity even in the countries where most progress has been made.

That means nothing. If women wanted to become politicians, they would be perfectly able to, and plenty of women have. What you are ruling out is a persons own personal choices, which as we should all fucking know by now, shouldn't pissing matter to anyone but oneself. I do believe they should be encouraged to take up more authority roles, but if they simply do not want to, you cannot force them.
Also "some countries" made be cringe.

Most religions, even in the Western world, have fully supported this mistreatment and continue to do, often disallowing women from becoming pastors or priests, fighting against women's access to birth control, creating a permissive environment for domestic abuse to thrive by demanding that women submit to men and must not divorce.

Well that is religion for you. Thankfully, there aren't many official theocracies anymore, so legally this means nothing seeing as religion is totally optional.

The daily experience of being a woman in countries like America may not be quite as restrictive as it is in places that practice Sharia law, but women are still held to stricter standards than men with regards to covering their bodies, are still sexually objectified in the media at a higher rate than men, and are still generally hesitant to report rapes because of a broken criminal justice system in which most rapists go free or are given very light sentences even after being brought to trial.

Bullshit.

The daily experience of being a woman in countries like America may not be quite as restrictive as it is in places that practice Sharia law, but women are still held to stricter standards than men with regards to covering their bodies

And why is this relevant? I think its more to do with bodily aesthetics and bits to cover than soggy-knees.

It is legal in parts of America for employers to fire women for being too attractive, but also legal to fire women in certain professions for gaining a little weight, which essentially means that it is legal to fire a woman arbitrarily for how she looks whether she conforms to patriarchal beauty standards or not.

Source?

These are only a few examples of institutionalized misogyny. I could go on for days.

I can too.