Criticisms of Feminism

[Udinia]

I forward you an inquiry. What is it exactly you think feminism is?

A movement dedicated to giving women rights they already have.

Eh...I'd say that is more the psycho liberal gynocentrists, not actual feminism.

Feminism is a bit of a misnomer, IMO, because it isn't so much about women as it is about combating unhealthy sex and gender stereotypes targeting both women and men.

[Hetmarch]

Eh...I'd say that is more the psycho liberal gynocentrists, not actual feminism.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

Feminism is a bit of a misnomer, IMO, because it isn't so much about women as it is about combating unhealthy sex and gender stereotypes targeting both women and men.

Stereotypes usually exist for a reason. Give me some examples of these unhealthy sterotypes.

[Udinia]

Eh...I'd say that is more the psycho liberal gynocentrists, not actual feminism.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

Feminism is a bit of a misnomer, IMO, because it isn't so much about women as it is about combating unhealthy sex and gender stereotypes targeting both women and men.

Stereotypes usually exist for a reason. Give me some examples of these unhealthy sterotypes.

So...predictable.

The "No True Scotsman" thing doesn't work in this situation as my assertion is demonstratably true, not unbased rhetoric. Extremist "feminism" or gynocentrism, is ostracized by modern political culture where as feminism in general is not. Simply because part of a population adheres to something doesn't mean it is a trait of the entire group.

I agree, for the most part, the stereotypes have a reason to exist, its true. However, the reasons for their existence often originate from unfounded and bigoted viewpoints and are most certainly not absolute.

As for unhealthy sterotypes , such as that some occupations in society should be inherently fulfilled by one sex (example: only women should be nurses or only men should be scientists.)

[Ostroeuropa]

A movement dedicated to giving women rights they already have.

Eh...I'd say that is more the psycho liberal gynocentrists, not actual feminism.

Feminism is a bit of a misnomer, IMO, because it isn't so much about women as it is about combating unhealthy sex and gender stereotypes targeting both women and men.

And that would be fine if that were even vaguely what it actually gets up to doing. It doesn't. Communists going bright eyed about the USSR and insisting it's about workers equality. They learned better. When will the egalitarians who are convinced they are feminists?

[Hetmarch]

Extremist "feminism" or gynocentrism, is ostracized by modern political culture where as feminism in general is not.

You seem to think that "liberal gynocentrists" are a small minority within feminism. In reality they have taken over the movement and turned it into a hate group.

However, the reasons for their existence often originate from unfounded and bigoted viewpoints and are most certainly not absolute.

As for unhealthy sterotypes , such as that some occupations in society should be inherently fulfilled by one sex (example: only women should be nurses or only men should be scientists.)

Gender roles and sterotypes are based in biology, not "bigoted viewpoints". But anyway, what exactly is stopping a woman from being a scientist? They are free to go to college and get any job a man can. I don't know anyone who is against it. In this ultra PC culture we live in you would probably be fired for saying women shouldn't be scientists.

[Ostroeuropa]

http://i.imgur.com/IMK7ttP.png

Is pretty much all you need to say to tumblerettes.

I don't get it. If we're so bad then why does that user have to put in so much work to make us look bad? :/

And there is the rub. The MRA isn't actually that bad.

This is fucking hilarious, absolutely nuts those lot.
It defies basic logical principles.
1) Those goddamn MRAs have to be brought down! They're racist and misogynistic!
2) Better find some evidence to prove this claim.
3) Find no evidence.
4) Welp, better create some evidence.
5) Those goddamn MRAs have to be brought down! They're racist and misogynistic!
There comes a point where activism stops and a political agenda begins, and that line has been crossed miles back.

Maybe it is, but nicemod is ALSO from SRS trying to paint MRAs as false flag false flaggers, so it's actually a false flag false flag false flag.
But seriously, one look at the prevailing sentiment in SRS or againstmensrights, and it's obvious this sort of thing must happen a lot. Occasionally it's bad enough even the reddit admins acknowledge it, as happened when 2x went default and claimed to get a bunch of threats.

Threats that mods said were false and sent by users to themselves

http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comm ... _movement/

I'd love for a feminist to explain why this behaviour is so common.

[The Confederacy of Nationalism]

Feminism is wrong because is wrong!
Done.

somebody get the lights on the way out

[Ostroeuropa]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman


Stereotypes usually exist for a reason. Give me some examples of these unhealthy sterotypes.

So...predictable.

The "No True Scotsman" thing doesn't work in this situation as my assertion is demonstratably true, not unbased rhetoric. Extremist "feminism" or gynocentrism, is ostracized by modern political culture where as feminism in general is not. Simply because part of a population adheres to something doesn't mean it is a trait of the entire group.

I agree, for the most part, the stereotypes have a reason to exist, its true. However, the reasons for their existence often originate from unfounded and bigoted viewpoints and are most certainly not absolute.

As for unhealthy sterotypes , such as that some occupations in society should be inherently fulfilled by one sex (example: only women should be nurses or only men should be scientists.)

You say it's demonstrably true?
Ok. Demonstrate it. Go ahead. Prove the majority of feminists are what you say they are.
Do you have an example of non gynocentric feminism in the mainstream media or in recent legislation? Because that would suggest that it's YOUR feminism which is ostracized if you don't.

[The New Sea Territory]

Eh...I'd say that is more the psycho liberal gynocentrists, not actual feminism.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

Feminism is a bit of a misnomer, IMO, because it isn't so much about women as it is about combating unhealthy sex and gender stereotypes targeting both women and men.

Stereotypes usually exist for a reason. Give me some examples of these unhealthy sterotypes.

...ok, the no true scotsmen doesn't apply when the people who say they are X do the exact opposite of the definition of X. Due to the feminist movement's decentralized nature, people call themselves feminists despite not understanding the term.

Secondly, stereotypes don't exist for a reason. Case closed.

[The Confederacy of Nationalism]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman


Stereotypes usually exist for a reason. Give me some examples of these unhealthy sterotypes.

...ok, the no true scotsmen doesn't apply when the people who say they are X do the exact opposite of the definition of X. Due to the feminist movement's decentralized nature, people call themselves feminists despite not understanding the term.

Secondly, stereotypes don't exist for a reason. Case closed.

They do exist for a reason, no matter how poor that reason may be.

[Udinia]

So...predictable.

The "No True Scotsman" thing doesn't work in this situation as my assertion is demonstratably true, not unbased rhetoric. Extremist "feminism" or gynocentrism, is ostracized by modern political culture where as feminism in general is not. Simply because part of a population adheres to something doesn't mean it is a trait of the entire group.

I agree, for the most part, the stereotypes have a reason to exist, its true. However, the reasons for their existence often originate from unfounded and bigoted viewpoints and are most certainly not absolute.

As for unhealthy sterotypes , such as that some occupations in society should be inherently fulfilled by one sex (example: only women should be nurses or only men should be scientists.)

You say it's demonstrably true?
Ok. Demonstrate it. Go ahead. Prove the majority of feminists are what you say they are.
Do you have an example of non gynocentric feminism in the mainstream media or in recent legislation? Because that would suggest that it's YOUR feminism which is ostracized if you don't.

Hmm, I'll admit defeat on this front. I spent an hour searching for an article showing percentages of gynocentrists to actual feminists, but found nothing with which I felt would demonstratably prove m statement. However, I don't see gynocentrism being accepted into the mainstream as you seem to believe it is, as far as I can tell it is still a rather fringe line of thought. As anti-liberal as I am, I'm not even convinced that feminazis are the mainstream face of feminism.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

You say it's demonstrably true?
Ok. Demonstrate it. Go ahead. Prove the majority of feminists are what you say they are.
Do you have an example of non gynocentric feminism in the mainstream media or in recent legislation? Because that would suggest that it's YOUR feminism which is ostracized if you don't.

Hmm, I'll admit defeat on this front. I spent an hour searching for an article showing percentages of gynocentrists to actual feminists, but found nothing with which I felt would demonstratably prove m statement. However, I don't see gynocentrism being accepted into the mainstream as you seem to believe it is, as far as I can tell it is still a rather fringe line of thought. As anti-liberal as I am, I'm not even convinced that feminazis are the mainstream face of feminism.

That's mostly because while the fringe feminism is loudest, there's more to it than just the loudest. Generally you tend to discount the middle if you are just looking at the fringes, and it is in the middle where the most people are concentrated in any political movement.

Sorta like Republicans and their shift to the "irrational" right: it's not due to them being irrational in the middle majority, but they are listening to the fringe minority.

[The Althing Confederacy]

Its wrong (or at best mistaken) since it has devolved to female supremacy (a role reversal) instead of equality!

[Susurruses]

Its wrong (or at best mistaken) since it has devolved to female supremacy (a role reversal) instead of equality!

Nope.

[The Althing Confederacy]

Its wrong (or at best mistaken) since it has devolved to female supremacy (a role reversal) instead of equality!

Nope.

OH REALLY!?
Leaving aside whats happing in Sweden; How about this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvEJfN-jiS4&feature=player_detailpage
Im not saying that ALL strong women support such a cause, yet as extreme as it is, this is what feminism (As opposed to the defunct ERA) is openly moving too!

[Kelinfort]

Nope.

OH REALLY!?
Leaving aside whats happing in Sweden; How about this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvEJfN-jiS4&feature=player_detailpage
Im not saying that ALL strong women support such a cause, yet as extreme as it is, this is what feminism (As opposed to the defunct ERA) is openly moving too!

I am not a Feminist; we are not Feminists.

From the video description.

[The Althing Confederacy]

OH REALLY!?
Leaving aside whats happing in Sweden; How about this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvEJfN-jiS4&feature=player_detailpage
Im not saying that ALL strong women support such a cause, yet as extreme as it is, this is what feminism (As opposed to the defunct ERA) is openly moving too!

I am not a Feminist; we are not Feminists.

From the video description.

Yet She calls herself Femitheist, and later in the vid claims to reboot feminism, and has a strong following in the Feminist movement.

[Kelinfort]

From the video description.

Yet She calls herself Femitheist, and later in the vid claims to represent feminists.

Does she? Definitely not. that's like claiming Strom Thurmond represents all white people.

[The Althing Confederacy]

Yet She calls herself Femitheist, and later in the vid claims to represent feminists.

Does she? Definitely not. that's like claiming Strom Thurmond represents all white people.

While its true that she, and her followers are "extremists"; How about the poularity of misandry among feminists in general, and misandrist feminist swag that is accepted due to feminism.
Such as the the fashionable "Misandry" berrettes, and T-shirts that proclaim "Boys suck through rocks at them!"?
If men pulled the equivalent they would be crucified (and rightfully so)!
Furthermore Feminists decry the objectification of women, yet enjoy the right to treat men as ATM's (I wont date a man unless he makes X amount of money, and will spend it on her, supporting her, while being a paragon of male beauty), despite the fact if women are equal then they should share that financial burden (leaving aside the expectations of physical beauty). Further more the next time you see women shopping look at their shopping bags (and a lot of media advertising geared towards them) it usually depicts half naked men posing in a sexual and/or submissive manner (again unacceptable to them if reversed, yet ignoring that neither should be acceptable if equality is the true objective).

While I could go on, I'll end with this vid by Karen Straughan: Not that I expect anything more than an unsaid TL;DR.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w__PJ8ymliw&feature=player_detailpage
PS. I must note you haven't weighed in on the insanity going on in Sweden.

[The Althing Confederacy]

Wow! Suddenly all I hear are the crickets!

[Kakluvia]

I'm a woman in real life. I just came to this site and I agree that Feminism has become a twisted sense of prejudice of genders and doesn't fix the real issue: conditioning. Men are not only forced but conditioned into the rolls of protectors and "the one that brings home the bacon." I'm still trying to figure out the why of how society blatantly forces the examples of men as the "strong but silent type," most of the women that are shown on television go for that type. But in real life most of us want a guy who's willing to show that soft side to his woman without getting flack for it. Women are also conditioned to, "go in the kitchen and make me (the man) a sammich." We are conditioned since birth to be soft because we give birth to children. Yes, I would like to get paid the same as a guy does. Do I think that constantly putting a guy down for the way he was raised to be is going to change things and make it better for me and other women? Uh, no.

[Kelinfort]

Does she? Definitely not. that's like claiming Strom Thurmond represents all white people.

While its true that she, and her followers are "extremists"; How about the poularity of misandry among feminists in general, and misandrist feminist swag that is accepted due to feminism.
Such as the the fashionable "Misandry" berrettes, and T-shirts that proclaim "Boys suck through rocks at them!"?
If men pulled the equivalent they would be crucified (and rightfully so)!
Furthermore Feminists decry the objectification of women, yet enjoy the right to treat men as ATM's (I wont date a man unless he makes X amount of money, and will spend it on her, supporting her, while being a paragon of male beauty), despite the fact if women are equal then they should share that financial burden (leaving aside the expectations of physical beauty). Further more the next time you see women shopping look at their shopping bags (and a lot of media advertising geared towards them) it usually depicts half naked men posing in a sexual and/or submissive manner (again unacceptable to them if reversed, yet ignoring that neither should be acceptable if equality is the true objective).

While I could go on, I'll end with this vid by Karen Straughan: Not that I expect anything more than an unsaid TL;DR.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w__PJ8ymliw&feature=player_detailpage
PS. I must note you haven't weighed in on the insanity going on in Sweden.

What berets are you referring to?

Besides, feminists already acknowledge sexism hurts men and actively attack it.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I'm a woman in real life. I just came to this site and I agree that Feminism has become a twisted sense of prejudice of genders and doesn't fix the real issue: conditioning. Men are not only forced but conditioned into the rolls of protectors and "the one that brings home the bacon." I'm still trying to figure out the why of how society blatantly forces the examples of men as the "strong but silent type," most of the women that are shown on television go for that type. But in real life most of us want a guy who's willing to show that soft side to his woman without getting flack for it. Women are also conditioned to, "go in the kitchen and make me (the man) a sammich." We are conditioned since birth to be soft because we give birth to children. Yes, I would like to get paid the same as a guy does. Do I think that constantly putting a guy down for the way he was raised to be is going to change things and make it better for me and other women? Uh, no.

The media attacks both men and women.

Men are supposed to be either the stoic, intellectual type or the aggressive, playboy type. We are not displayed as soft and it is an expectation the media teaches us how to be men.

Women on the other hand are shown to be soft and caring, more "feminine".

And well, I certainly would appreciate it if a woman would tell me what i am doing wrong and why.

[The Althing Confederacy]

What berets are you referring to?
Such as these:


Besides, feminists already acknowledge sexism hurts men and actively attack it.[/quote]

While strong women who fight to achieve and preserve equality between genders do exist (and often misrepresent themselves as feminists); the feminist movement in general disagrees.
Here is a man ("y" chromosome; we lose) who expresses this far more eloquently than I can (though personally I feel little if any need for MRA'S).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tS-yXY__pAo&feature=player_detailpage

[The Althing Confederacy]

HMMM!
More Crickets...