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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:42 pm
by Constantinopolis
It seems like everyone wrote:Sarkeesian Sarkeesian Sarkeesian

Why are you talking about some YouTube celebrity who makes videos about computer games as if she is politically important somehow?

She's not.

Feminism is a political stance. Sarkeesian is, as far as I can tell, entirely apolitical. Does she support any political policies or laws or measures of some kind? Nope.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:44 pm
by The Confederacy of Nationalism
Stagnant Axon Terminal wrote:
The Confederacy of Nationalism wrote:>implying I'm straight
asexual
still male though

I'm not saying gender roles are beneficial, I'm saying society can't wipe them out while sexual reproduction exists.

Yes we can. Not being boxed into a role doesn't seal up my cunt.

No, biology is not something you can mask with social constructs, it hasn't worked for race and it won't work for sexes.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:44 pm
by Warpspace
Constantinopolis wrote:
It seems like everyone wrote:Sarkeesian Sarkeesian Sarkeesian

Why are you talking about some YouTube celebrity who makes videos about computer games as if she is politically important somehow?

She's not.

Feminism is a political stance. Sarkeesian is, as far as I can tell, entirely apolitical. Does she support any political policies or laws or measures of some kind? Nope.


Not to dip into the shitstorm of Gamergate, but all she seems to be anyway (along with all the key figures on both sides) is attempting to make a quick buck, get some fifteen minutes of fame, and stir shit up even more.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:45 pm
by The Lotophagi
The Confederacy of Nationalism wrote:
The Lotophagi wrote:
So your testicles drop off when you wear a skirt? That's really weird.

Nope, not really.


I'm pretty sure it is weird. Maybe you should see a doctor about it? Can't be healthy.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:45 pm
by Imyoji
Constantinopolis wrote:
It seems like everyone wrote:Sarkeesian Sarkeesian Sarkeesian

Why are you talking about some YouTube celebrity who makes videos about computer games as if she is politically important somehow?

She's not.

Feminism is a political stance. Sarkeesian is, as far as I can tell, entirely apolitical. Does she support any political policies or laws or measures of some kind? Nope.

She is only important because apparently the only thing relevant to feminism now is Gamergate. WHICH IT ISN'T.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:45 pm
by Carpathia and Moldova
Imyoji wrote:Except you commented on the movement as a whole as doing such an action, when it is clearly not the case.

In short, not insightful enough, your OP. And the statement you just lobbed to me just now made very little sense or relevance.


Like I said, its 7 AM and I haven't slept in 3 days. I'm also under a lot of stress due to some pretty serious financial issues, so my writing skills are kind of erratic right now, as English isn't my native language. I wasn't trying to discredit feminism, I was trying to point out what I believe to be the cause of the issues which you fight against and to see whether you think I am right or wrong. The purpose was to assess whether or not heredity is the cause of the problem and if so, how to get rid of it.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:45 pm
by -Shie-
Carpathia and Moldova wrote:
-Shie- wrote:Different standards in life for men and women doesn't even bother me unless we degrade ourselves like we do now. There's nothing wrong with fatherhood and motherhood or patriarchy.


There are a lot of things wrong, as long as people are not treated equally. Strict social conventions only lead to frictions, which cause frustration, depression, etc and eventually lead to a failed life.

Patriarchy isn't very strict and people are more equal under patriarchy, the only people who might have a hard time are a small amount of people who can't function normally in society. Under patriarchy it's really men who have the hardest task and even that isn't very difficult to do, provide.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:45 pm
by Stagnant Axon Terminal
The Confederacy of Nationalism wrote:
Stagnant Axon Terminal wrote:Yes we can. Not being boxed into a role doesn't seal up my cunt.

No, biology is not something you can mask with social constructs, it hasn't worked for race and it won't work for sexes.

I think you are a little confused between "You give birth, you don't" and sociopolitical gender roles. People with uteruses can still give birth without gender roles.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:46 pm
by Imyoji
Warpspace wrote:
Constantinopolis wrote:Why are you talking about some YouTube celebrity who makes videos about computer games as if she is politically important somehow?

She's not.

Feminism is a political stance. Sarkeesian is, as far as I can tell, entirely apolitical. Does she support any political policies or laws or measures of some kind? Nope.


Not to dip into the shitstorm of Gamergate, but all she seems to be anyway (along with all the key figures on both sides) is attempting to make a quick buck, get some fifteen minutes of fame, and stir shit up even more.

Which is literally what gamergate is doing now can we talk about how radfems are still relevant so long as there is skepticism in regards to practicality?

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:46 pm
by The Confederacy of Nationalism
The Lotophagi wrote:
The Confederacy of Nationalism wrote:Nope, not really.


I'm pretty sure it is weird. Maybe you should see a doctor about it? Can't be healthy.

No, to the first part, there's plenty of places where men where skirts and if I can recall, most of them still have testicles.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:47 pm
by Shaggtopia
Why is it that we blame women for the problems women face? Why is it that we blame women for the gender-roles imposed by society? If these problems are symptomatic then what is the cancer?
I can't quite put my finger on it, maybe I should ask the bullies that called me a 'pussy' for studying during lunch and playing nerdy card games, yelled 'faggot' at me while I was walking down the hall despite or maybe because of the fact that I wasn't interested in the same macho bull**** that they where, OH OH or that one time that I got beat to a mangled bloody pulp because I threw the learning curve and had a hand in flunking them so hard they couldn't play sports because of school policy, come to think of it how did they find out I passed? I guess the teacher was upset their star athletes couldn't play in the big game...
Do you feel the sarcasm here? and now before anybody says anything about what I've said here today, I'd like to make it ABUNDANTLY clear that I don't blame sports because no, it's not their fault, I don't even really blame the people that personally harmed me. I BLAME THE PEOPLE WHO STOOD BY AND MADE EXCUSES FOR THOSE PEOPLE, Because they knew it was wrong and did nothing to stop it let alone remedy the behavior.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:47 pm
by -Shie-
The Confederacy of Nationalism wrote:
Stagnant Axon Terminal wrote:Yes we can. Not being boxed into a role doesn't seal up my cunt.

No, biology is not something you can mask with social constructs, it hasn't worked for race and it won't work for sexes.
Race is a social construction but sex is not.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:47 pm
by Albul
Katganistan wrote:
The Confederacy of Nationalism wrote:Gender roles are necessary while sexual reproduction still exists, matey.



Really?
How does sexual reproduction tie into one's paycheck, do tell.
Or into one's ability to do construction work? Teach? Work in finance?

I eagerly await your explanation.

Simple... Allow me to introduce you to this concept...
Image


Yet another reason why we should implement feminist policies... to prevent this mentality.

I was truly hoping that this guy would bring up some legitimate issues with feminist policies, like:

* That women tend to win in custody cases
* That the rape of males is not taken as seriously as the rape of females
* The lack of accessibility of women in cases of courtship
* That men are obliged to get on the lifeboats after the women and children, even though men are the moneymakers
* The Death of Chivalry
* That men are more likely to be indicted for rape than females
Now I've gone and done it...
Image

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:48 pm
by Carpathia and Moldova
-Shie- wrote:
Carpathia and Moldova wrote:
There are a lot of things wrong, as long as people are not treated equally. Strict social conventions only lead to frictions, which cause frustration, depression, etc and eventually lead to a failed life.

Patriarchy isn't very strict and people are more equal under patriarchy, the only people who might have a hard time are a small amount of people who can't function normally in society. Under patriarchy it's really men who have the hardest task and even that isn't very difficult to do, provide.


People should be assigned tasks (or, rather, be allowed to pick their tasks), based on their individual skills, not on their gender. Gender roles are a mistake, because they are a generalization and when you generalize, you do not see people for their individual worth.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:48 pm
by The Confederacy of Nationalism
Stagnant Axon Terminal wrote:
The Confederacy of Nationalism wrote:No, biology is not something you can mask with social constructs, it hasn't worked for race and it won't work for sexes.

I think you are a little confused between "You give birth, you don't" and sociopolitical gender roles. People with uteruses can still give birth without gender roles.

Well, again, if gender roles are sociopolitical, tell me why they are observed in most (if not all) species of mammals

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:48 pm
by Warpspace
The Confederacy of Nationalism wrote:
Stagnant Axon Terminal wrote:Yes we can. Not being boxed into a role doesn't seal up my cunt.

No, biology is not something you can mask with social constructs, it hasn't worked for race and it won't work for sexes.


What are you even talking about? Animals have gender roles for the same reason that we needed them early on in our evolution. In social animals, somebody has to get the food, and somebody else has to whack anyone that looks at their nest funny. Given that humans are now the Apex Predator of the entire planet and we've curbstomped every single sorry threat to our existence (besides ourselves, although we may work on that), there isn't any need for such roles outside of our petty inter-species conflicts.

There's no longer a need for the males to be the breadwinner and the females to be the housewives, that dynamic of human life, or at least the requirement, is dead.

Humans won evolution. We're at the top of the entire ecosystem and the only stuff that can put us down are absurdly destructive natural disasters, like asteroid impacts. As no other species has reached this point, they still obviously require gender roles.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:48 pm
by Constantinopolis
The Confederacy of Nationalism wrote:
Constantinopolis wrote:Discrimination against women and traditional gender roles do not benefit men. Or, to be more exact, they do not benefit working men. They benefit wealthy capitalist men (and women).

Well, as a working man I'd fight to the death defending the capitalist system that my ancestors forged in the revolutionary war.

Capitalism was progressive and revolutionary in the 18th century. I would certainly fight on the side of the bourgeois revolutionaries back then, as would all Marxists.

In the struggle between feudalism and capitalism, capitalism is the progressive force, and should be supported. But that was then. This is now. In the struggle between capitalism and socialism, socialism is the progressive force, and should be supported.

The Confederacy of Nationalism wrote:I sure as hell wouldn't be paid jack shit if I was working for the state.

Right-wingers: Claiming that they "wouldn't be paid jack shit" if they were working for the state, while at the same time complaining that public sector workers in the US get paid too much and have too many benefits.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:49 pm
by -Shie-
Shaggtopia wrote:Why is it that we blame women for the problems women face? Why is it that we blame women for the gender-roles imposed by society? If these problems are symptomatic then what is the cancer?
I can't quite put my finger on it, maybe I should ask the bullies that called me a 'pussy' for studying during lunch and playing nerdy card games, yelled 'faggot' at me while I was walking down the hall despite or maybe because of the fact that I wasn't interested in the same macho bull**** that they where, OH OH or that one time that I got beat to a mangled bloody pulp because I threw the learning curve and had a hand in flunking them so hard they couldn't play sports because of school policy, come to think of it how did they find out I passed? I guess the teacher was upset their star athletes couldn't play in the big game...
Do you feel the sarcasm here? and now before anybody says anything about what I've said here today, I'd like to make it ABUNDANTLY clear that I don't blame sports because no, it's not their fault, I don't even really blame the people that personally harmed me. I BLAME THE PEOPLE WHO STOOD BY AND MADE EXCUSES FOR THOSE PEOPLE, Because they knew it was wrong and did nothing to stop it let alone remedy the behavior.

Women's problems like what?

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:50 pm
by The Confederacy of Nationalism
-Shie- wrote:
The Confederacy of Nationalism wrote:No, biology is not something you can mask with social constructs, it hasn't worked for race and it won't work for sexes.
Race is a social construction but sex is not.

why do I even bother
go get yourself a degree in biology and then tell me race is a social construct, alright?

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:50 pm
by Carpathia and Moldova
Shaggtopia wrote:Why is it that we blame women for the problems women face? Why is it that we blame women for the gender-roles imposed by society? If these problems are symptomatic then what is the cancer?
I can't quite put my finger on it, maybe I should ask the bullies that called me a 'pussy' for studying during lunch and playing nerdy card games, yelled 'faggot' at me while I was walking down the hall despite or maybe because of the fact that I wasn't interested in the same macho bull**** that they where, OH OH or that one time that I got beat to a mangled bloody pulp because I threw the learning curve and had a hand in flunking them so hard they couldn't play sports because of school policy, come to think of it how did they find out I passed? I guess the teacher was upset their star athletes couldn't play in the big game...
Do you feel the sarcasm here? and now before anybody says anything about what I've said here today, I'd like to make it ABUNDANTLY clear that I don't blame sports because no, it's not their fault, I don't even really blame the people that personally harmed me. I BLAME THE PEOPLE WHO STOOD BY AND MADE EXCUSES FOR THOSE PEOPLE, Because they knew it was wrong and did nothing to stop it let alone remedy the behavior.


I'm not blaming women, I'm blaming the people who invented social conventions on gender roles, which is the rich elite.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:51 pm
by The Confederacy of Nationalism
Constantinopolis wrote:
The Confederacy of Nationalism wrote:Well, as a working man I'd fight to the death defending the capitalist system that my ancestors forged in the revolutionary war.

Capitalism was progressive and revolutionary in the 18th century. I would certainly fight on the side of the bourgeois revolutionaries back then, as would all Marxists.

In the struggle between feudalism and capitalism, capitalism is the progressive force, and should be supported. But that was then. This is now. In the struggle between capitalism and socialism, socialism is the progressive force, and should be supported.

The Confederacy of Nationalism wrote:I sure as hell wouldn't be paid jack shit if I was working for the state.

Right-wingers: Claiming that they "wouldn't be paid jack shit" if they were working for the state, while at the same time complaining that public sector workers in the US get paid too much and have too many benefits.

Nah man, public workers get paid too little, for sure, especially after the pension cuts. I just find it funny that you believe that I'd get paid the same when over half my income comes from stock options, not my salary.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:52 pm
by Stagnant Axon Terminal
The Confederacy of Nationalism wrote:
Stagnant Axon Terminal wrote:I think you are a little confused between "You give birth, you don't" and sociopolitical gender roles. People with uteruses can still give birth without gender roles.

Well, again, if gender roles are sociopolitical, tell me why they are observed in most (if not all) species of mammals

sauce on that.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:52 pm
by The Confederacy of Nationalism
Carpathia and Moldova wrote:
Shaggtopia wrote:Why is it that we blame women for the problems women face? Why is it that we blame women for the gender-roles imposed by society? If these problems are symptomatic then what is the cancer?
I can't quite put my finger on it, maybe I should ask the bullies that called me a 'pussy' for studying during lunch and playing nerdy card games, yelled 'faggot' at me while I was walking down the hall despite or maybe because of the fact that I wasn't interested in the same macho bull**** that they where, OH OH or that one time that I got beat to a mangled bloody pulp because I threw the learning curve and had a hand in flunking them so hard they couldn't play sports because of school policy, come to think of it how did they find out I passed? I guess the teacher was upset their star athletes couldn't play in the big game...
Do you feel the sarcasm here? and now before anybody says anything about what I've said here today, I'd like to make it ABUNDANTLY clear that I don't blame sports because no, it's not their fault, I don't even really blame the people that personally harmed me. I BLAME THE PEOPLE WHO STOOD BY AND MADE EXCUSES FOR THOSE PEOPLE, Because they knew it was wrong and did nothing to stop it let alone remedy the behavior.


I'm not blaming women, I'm blaming the people who invented social conventions on gender roles, which is the rich elite.

Do you see gender roles in all other mammals? Yes. Are there rich elites in all other mammals? Probably not.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:54 pm
by NeuPolska
I like the general message of what you're saying, but at the same time you're talking feminism down a whole lot. Is there a problem with an elite controlling society? Yeah, but feminists aren't exactly helping these guys out. If anything they're either fighting them or indifferent.

So I mean, take a look at what you're saying.

But I will at least agree with like 20% of what you're saying, namely the fact that we need change.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:54 pm
by -Shie-
The Confederacy of Nationalism wrote:
-Shie- wrote:Race is a social construction but sex is not.

why do I even bother
go get yourself a degree in biology and then tell me race is a social construct, alright?

There is no such thing as race in any scientific sense. I'm getting tired of having to shout down Nazi knuckle heads.