Criticisms of Feminism

[Sefard]

Meritocracy is a flawed system because it appeals to everyone differently. What you find meritable, I may not.

Ideally, everyone has a place and a role, that complements each other. Whether or not we engage in ideals, we must all accept that which is realistic and practical. I would like you to examine African American families, which are disproportionately headed by women. They are at an enormous disadvantageous compared to other families because of their situation. Should their men be made responsible to uphold their duties their families, certainly, their families would not suffer so. I await your excuse.

Ah, so your "roles" make much more sense because they...wait, no they don't. Again, roles are subjective to interpretation, more so than meritocracy in some respects.

And yet more bullshit. This is sexism at its finest. You see, you've resorted to pointing out matriarchal stereotypes in the African American community. And for what reason? The impoverished, as you well know, are not as well educated. Many men abandon your "successful" patriarchy. And why? Is it because of women working? Is it because women are in active combat roles? No. It is because of poverty. It is because they have grown up poor, indigent, and lack education. Your beliefs are inherently wrong as they force the whole of society into servitude, especially women. Not only that, but are we to believe single women families are the result of bad women or women in the workforce? No.

There are no roles in society, and I see not any reason as to why you claims are anything more than raving for the days when women were oppressed completely and utterly, only used for breeding, pleasure, and domestic work.

Incorrect. I point out the African American community because they have no resolve to bring themselves up. If, their men would stick to their roles, work, and provide, then their women can spend more time becoming educated, bring their families out of poverty, and providing opportunities for their children.

[Nervium]

OP, the people you're rambling on about are Feminist Extremists, AKA "Femnazis". Actual Feminists are Susan B. Anthony, not Anita Sarkeesian.

Anita Sarkeesian is in no way extreme.

The people harassing her however...

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

Incorrect. I point out the African American community because they have no resolve to bring themselves up. If, their men would stick to their roles, work, and provide, then their women can spend more time becoming educated, bring their families out of poverty, and providing opportunities for their children.

How about American society, economic system and government stop screwing poor people and POC over.

[Sefard]

Incorrect. I point out the African American community because they have no resolve to bring themselves up. If, their men would stick to their roles, work, and provide, then their women can spend more time becoming educated, bring their families out of poverty, and providing opportunities for their children.

How about American society, economic system and government stop screwing poor people and POC over.

American society doesn't. I am darker than the average American, and certainly come from a culture that is not greatly understood or immediately welcomed in American society, but, we're making it through, and done well. It's called initiative, self help, and an appreciation for life.

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

American society doesn't. I am darker than the average American, and certainly come from a culture that is not greatly understood or immediately welcomed in American society, but, we're making it through, and done well. It's called initiative, self help, and an appreciation for life.

Lacking in empathy, respect, intersectionality and historic analysis and exaggerating in ethnocentrism, are we?

[Lies and Ignorance]

How about American society, economic system and government stop screwing poor people and POC over.

American society doesn't. I am darker than the average American, and certainly come from a culture that is not greatly understood or immediately welcomed in American society, but, we're making it through, and done well. It's called initiative, self help, and an appreciation for life.

Ah, the bootstraps myth. How dreadful to meet again.

[Sefard]

American society doesn't. I am darker than the average American, and certainly come from a culture that is not greatly understood or immediately welcomed in American society, but, we're making it through, and done well. It's called initiative, self help, and an appreciation for life.

Lacking in empathy, respect, intersectionality and historic analysis and exaggerating in ethnocentrism, are we?

How is this in any ethnocentric? I am a Sephardi Mizrahi Jew, I share my culture with Arabs and Persians, I speak Hebrew, Arabic, some Farsi, Spanish, and English. Not only this, half my family is non Jewish Sicilians.

[Sefard]

American society doesn't. I am darker than the average American, and certainly come from a culture that is not greatly understood or immediately welcomed in American society, but, we're making it through, and done well. It's called initiative, self help, and an appreciation for life.

Ah, the bootstraps myth. How dreadful to meet again.

No. I don't believe in bootstraps. I believe that welfare in general is good, especially if it is universal, like universal healthcare, free college educations, public schools, free public transportation. I am a full supporter of unions (a member myself), collective bargaining, and charity (notably an obligation, not a choice, you give what you can). But this doesn't mean I should sit on my ass, nor allow anyone else too. I should try to do something, just as everyone else.

[Lies and Ignorance]

Ah, the bootstraps myth. How dreadful to meet again.

No. I don't believe in bootstraps. I believe that welfare in general is good, especially if it is universal, like universal healthcare, free college educations, public schools, free public transportation. I am a full supporter of unions (a member myself), collective bargaining, and charity (notably an obligation, not a choice, you give what you can). But this doesn't mean I should sit on my ass, nor allow anyone else too. I should try to do something, just as everyone else.

Yeah, that's all very nice. Your conception of the US as a level playing field is still wrong, however.

[Sefard]

No. I don't believe in bootstraps. I believe that welfare in general is good, especially if it is universal, like universal healthcare, free college educations, public schools, free public transportation. I am a full supporter of unions (a member myself), collective bargaining, and charity (notably an obligation, not a choice, you give what you can). But this doesn't mean I should sit on my ass, nor allow anyone else too. I should try to do something, just as everyone else.

Yeah, that's all very nice. Your conception of the US as a level playing field is still wrong, however.

I don't believe it is a level playing field. If I did, I wouldn't support universal healthcare, free college education, public schools, public transportation, a living wage, progressive income taxation, unionization, collective bargaining, or obligatory charity.

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

Lacking in empathy, respect, intersectionality and historic analysis and exaggerating in ethnocentrism, are we?

How is this in any ethnocentric? I am a Sephardi Mizrahi Jew, I share my culture with Arabs and Persians, I speak Hebrew, Arabic, some Farsi, Spanish, and English. Not only this, half my family is non Jewish Sicilians.

Asian people, societies and civilizations, like non-black Indigenous peoples, can engage in anti-Blackness too. Just like all non-Asians can engage in Orientalism, all peoples who have a coherent nation-state might engage in [anti-Indigenous] genocide ideology, and gentiles in general can engage in anti-Semitism. Notice these are like the -phobias to the ethnocentrism -ism.

Ethnocentrism applies really to all.

[Sefard]

How is this in any ethnocentric? I am a Sephardi Mizrahi Jew, I share my culture with Arabs and Persians, I speak Hebrew, Arabic, some Farsi, Spanish, and English. Not only this, half my family is non Jewish Sicilians.

Asian people, societies and civilizations, like non-black Indigenous peoples, can engage in anti-Blackness too. Just like all non-Asians can engage in Orientalism, all peoples who have a coherent nation-state might engage in [anti-Indigenous] genocide ideology, and gentiles in general can engage in anti-Semitism. Notice these are like the -phobias to the ethnocentrism -ism.

Ethnocentrism applies really to all.

There is no ethnocrentrism here. We cannot escape the ideas people have about us, but we can certainly enjoy everyone's presence. I work in a deli and meet many different individuals. Our inventory man is black, I enjoy conversation with him. A white man specifically asks for me when he comes. I am able to put the Mexicans at ease by speaking Spanish to them. I even once inform a Black Muslim that none of our meats were kosher or halal. I work with a Mexican, an American from the South, an American from the South, and to Americans from New York, as well as a Persian Bahai. The guy from New York, while my grandparents were Sicilian Partisans and Jewish refugees, his grandparents were Nazis. We get along great. We all have great relations. There is no ethnocentrism. There is me trying to go further.

[Men Empire]

Just look at Anita Sarkessian and FEMEN.

Reason for Anita Sarkessian= As a person which throughly enjoys video games, i found her pathetic & mindless blabbering about how video games are ''sexist'' (its absurd) . Video games are an area where neither me or gamers who think like me will tolerate. Do we intervene in her speeches or posts (which are devoid of any intelligence)? No. So she doesnt have the right to attack our games because they dont cater to feminist non-sense (dont tell me that the feminism of today is defending women rights, because it doesnt.Feminism today only exists to make peoples lives (especially those of males) miserable).

Reason for FEMEN= Flashing your boobs in the public or attacking people's religious beliefs will not attract attention to womens rights.The former will attract attention , i agree (though it is not the attention they supposedly want ).But the latter will only attract more enemies to their ''cause''. Watch their ''protests'' (more like-bewbies fest ).Their act serves only to ''degrade'' women. İ am not saying this, but it is rather my female friends, relatives and even my sister who said this to me (that what FEMEN does are shaming them).

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

FEMEN also shames feminists. It's fatphobic, transphobic, and appeals to the objectification of women's bodies to make a point that isn't at all critical of it. Not to mention their relationships with various fat cats and suspect politicians.

Their leader in Brazil is a fucking neo-Nazi, for heaven's sake. Bad example.

[Olerand]

Just look at Anita Sarkessian and FEMEN.

Reason for Anita Sarkessian= As a person which throughly enjoys video games, i found her pathetic & mindless blabbering about how video games are ''sexist'' (its absurd) . Video games are an area where neither me or gamers who think like me will tolerate. Do we intervene in her speeches or posts (which are devoid of any intelligence)? No. So she doesnt have the right to attack our games because they dont cater to feminist non-sense (dont tell me that the feminism of today is defending women rights, because it doesnt.Feminism today only exists to make peoples lives (especially those of males) miserable).

Reason for FEMEN= Flashing your boobs in the public or attacking people's religious beliefs will not attract attention to womens rights.The former will attract attention , i agree (though it is not the attention they supposedly want ).But the latter will only attract more enemies to their ''cause''. Watch their ''protests'' (more like-bewbies fest ).Their act serves only to ''degrade'' women. İ am not saying this, but it is rather my female friends, relatives and even my sister who said this to me (that what FEMEN does are shaming them).

After research, Anita Sarkeesian appears to be a person who criticizes video games. And receives a lot of hate for doing so.

One question. Why? Who gives a fuck?

People who give a fuck need to get over themselves.

FEMEN: Bunch of radicals who only stand for "feminism" in as much as it allows them to insult and yell at everyone, including other women.

I am pleased that they were given refuge in France though. It's a credit to our honor and prestige; and I love when they mimic abortions in churches; it riles the Catholics right the fuck up.

[Ereria]

Feminism is stupid anyway. In Europe and North America women are equal to men, there is no need to protest for even more. It's just women that are angry because no men loves their ugly ass.

[Olerand]

Feminism is stupid anyway. In Europe and North America women are equal to men, there is no need to protest for even more. It's just women that are angry because no men loves their ugly ass.

Both fascinating, informative, and 100% true. 10/10.

[The Blaatschapen]

Feminism is stupid anyway. In Europe and North America women are equal to men, there is no need to protest for even more. It's just women that are angry because no men loves their ugly ass.

Stop trolling. Read the rules.

*** 3 day ban for trolling ***

The Blaatschapen - Nationstates Moderator

[Syndicapolis]

Hold your horses. I know there are a lot of feminists here, but please, read what I have to say before going off and condemning me. I am not a misogynist and I do not advocate the discrimination of women (or any kind of discrimination at all). I completely agree with you that women are being discriminated against and I fully support the idea of equal rights and status for all genders, races, ethnicities and sexual orientations. My issue is that you're doing it wrong.

Let's think of society as a living organism and look at this issue as a social disease. When you get a disease, what do you do? Do you treat the symptoms, or the cause? Because, if you don't eliminate the cause, those symptoms are just going to come back and social inequality (as well as racial inequality and every other kind of inequality) is a symptom, which you pit so many resources against, without ever considering the bigger picture and what is causing the disease.

The fact is (and I recommend you take this very seriously), gender discrimination goes both ways. Yes, women are generally paid less. Yes, women are generally seen as being weaker. Yes, women are being treated with less respect. What you do not realize is that the discrimination of women is equally damaging to the male gender. How so? Because of the rigid social conventions on "gender roles" which we are all forced to abide by. While women are expected to "stay in the kitchen", men are required to be insensitive and unfaithful. In modern society, a man who displays affection, respect and loyalty to a woman, is considered a "pussy" and rejected as weak (and usually end up on the losing end). These gender conventions demand that men assert their dominance in a relationship and act the way we often do. In other words, we're just as conditioned and restricted by these conventions, as you are.

Social conventions such as gender roles, racial and ethnic status, etc, are all just another excuse for the people with a very high social status, to restrict access to their position and eliminate potential competition, thus increasing their offspring's chances of inheriting that position of power. The cause of all these issues is heredity. To prove my point, we're seeing a whole bunch of problems, like racism, slowly being eliminated, while other forms of discrimination, such as classism (discrimination against the poor), are taking their place.

I imagine that, at some point in the distant past, there was a struggle for social status and resources, in primitive human culture. At some point, that struggle was won by a group of males, for a some unknown reasons (it is possible that the opposite might have happened and females could have won, which would have resulted in a completely reversed scenario with women on top). Ever since then, that winning group has done everything in its power to not only consolidate its grip on the position which they have acquired, but to expand their power even further. Nowadays, we call these people "the 1%" and they're the ones who control the media, finances, etc, thus they're in a position to dictate which conventions should the society follow. In fact, all of these social conventions are the result of people playing by the rules of the privileged few, due to a misguided belief that thus, they are able to climb the social ladder just one step further. What you do not realize, is that the game is rigged. The people who make the rules will only seek to further their own interest and eliminate any and all potential competition, by making it impossible for people to compete in the first place. Thus, you have issues such as discrimination, which cause social frictions, malcontent, disappointment and stagnation and are invariably leading the human race towards its own destruction.

Try going through a mental exercise with me. Imagine a world without inheritance. A world without an elite which has that position of power, merely because they inherited their advantage. If power and wealth were not hereditary, we could have a world where one had to earn his or her place, through their own merit. In my opinion, the only way to solve society's issue is through making people in power have more responsibilities, while eliminating heredity in its entirety (100% inheritance tax and the abolition of aristocracy). All those taxes could then go towards making the world a place where every person has the chance to succeed in life on his/her own. Think of it this way. What would you rather leave your children? Material assets like money and social position, thus very little motivation for self-improvement? Or a world which offers your children the possibility to start in the same position as everyone else (by eliminating the concept of pole position), thus stimulating them to grow and evolve? Leveling the playing field would only increase competition, thus promoting an accelerated improvement of society and the human race as a whole.

What I propose, is that you stop looking at this issue from such a narrow angle. Its not just about women's rights, its about humanity as a whole. Why not try to point out the negative effects that discrimination against women, has on men? Instead of addressing just one of the symptoms, why not seek to promote a world in which everyone starts off with the same chances and has an equal amount of support, to succeed in life?

I'm really looking forward to reading your responses to this.

And this is why liberal feminism is a well-intentioned movement that has been diluted and is fighting against the wrong things. Not why feminism is wrong. I'm not trying to flog my ideology or anything, but I do genuinely think that Marxist feminism might be more up your street than the liberal sort.

Also, to everyone, pleeeeeease stop using "extreme" or "radical" as a derogatory term. It's frustrating enough that you call FEMEN etc radical when they have nothing to do with radical feminism, but wanting to overhaul the system doesn't necessitate being stupid or irrational or crazy, and I think it's sad that holding a radical view is now thought of as a bad thing. It's like a milder version of the view of unorthodoxy in Nineteen Eighty-Four.

[Kelinfort]

Ah, so your "roles" make much more sense because they...wait, no they don't. Again, roles are subjective to interpretation, more so than meritocracy in some respects.

And yet more bullshit. This is sexism at its finest. You see, you've resorted to pointing out matriarchal stereotypes in the African American community. And for what reason? The impoverished, as you well know, are not as well educated. Many men abandon your "successful" patriarchy. And why? Is it because of women working? Is it because women are in active combat roles? No. It is because of poverty. It is because they have grown up poor, indigent, and lack education. Your beliefs are inherently wrong as they force the whole of society into servitude, especially women. Not only that, but are we to believe single women families are the result of bad women or women in the workforce? No.

There are no roles in society, and I see not any reason as to why you claims are anything more than raving for the days when women were oppressed completely and utterly, only used for breeding, pleasure, and domestic work.

Incorrect. I point out the African American community because they have no resolve to bring themselves up. If, their men would stick to their roles, work, and provide, then their women can spend more time becoming educated, bring their families out of poverty, and providing opportunities for their children.

Ah right, if they only "accepted" their roles, there wouldn't be a problem. Why don't we see this trend in the white community, then? Please tell me how it is just these impoverished African Americans. Rates of divorce have declined over the past ten years in states where more women work and earn degrees. It is clearly based on poverty.

[-The Unified Earth Governments-]

OP, the people you're rambling on about are Feminist Extremists, AKA "Femnazis". Actual Feminists are Susan B. Anthony, not Anita Sarkeesian.

Anita Sarkeesian is in no way extreme.

The people harassing her however...

She isn't extreme, just stupid...or a lier, one of those.

She is like that other person, the old guy...I just woke up so I can't remember his name, that guy was defeated early on in the game of life in comparison, we didn't have as good gear too...

Oh yeah, were was I?

Oh yeah, Anita is a dishonest, and I do believe she wants goodness, and an improvement for woman in gaming...well...at least I think...as long as they don't say gamer, but I also think she is taking orders from some dude or whatever about what to say, I kinda hope thats the case, you don't want people being natural bad, maybe gullible, maybe she is getting money out of it.

And no, I don't think her kickstarter was to just get money, I am sure she did a fair share of playing and buying games, as well as taking lets play footage as well.

Jack Thompson! Thats who I was thinking!

She is the modern (Well, more so) female Jack Thompson, but instead of violence, its misogyny.

I mean hell, I would support her if she had good arguments, she has the right fucking idea, she is right on spot, there are objective issues with video game woman (Some are shared with men in a different way...) but...she doesn't follow up with the good idea, I mean the out of context issues in examples, her title card is just stupid...(Anya, Cortana? Out of all of them those two shouldn't even come close to being there, the rest from what I recall, yeah you can make a case for I think...)

Mario - Not Sexist

Dead or Alie: Jiggle Physics Edition - In more ways than you may think.

So in total, I support the idea, and I support criticism of any genre, I just wish she did it well, if anything I can say that supports her beyond "Good Idea' can be mustered, its that she has good presentation, good vocals, and she does her work, even if I doubt its legitimacy or how she came to it.

[-The Unified Earth Governments-]

Just look at Anita Sarkessian and FEMEN.

Reason for Anita Sarkessian= As a person which throughly enjoys video games, i found her pathetic & mindless blabbering about how video games are ''sexist'' (its absurd) . Video games are an area where neither me or gamers who think like me will tolerate. Do we intervene in her speeches or posts (which are devoid of any intelligence)? No. So she doesnt have the right to attack our games because they dont cater to feminist non-sense (dont tell me that the feminism of today is defending women rights, because it doesnt.Feminism today only exists to make peoples lives (especially those of males) miserable).

Reason for FEMEN= Flashing your boobs in the public or attacking people's religious beliefs will not attract attention to womens rights.The former will attract attention , i agree (though it is not the attention they supposedly want ).But the latter will only attract more enemies to their ''cause''. Watch their ''protests'' (more like-bewbies fest ).Their act serves only to ''degrade'' women. İ am not saying this, but it is rather my female friends, relatives and even my sister who said this to me (that what FEMEN does are shaming them).

Oh, your very wrong, she has every right to criticize gaming.

And feminist of today could arguably be for positive things outside of first world problems, or at least not all like tumblites as some people think they are.

[The Union of the West]

This was an interesting read, but I think it stems from a fundamental misunderstanding of what the goals of feminism are.

The end goal of feminism is to elevate the role of women in society (who do have a worse position) by dismantling patriarchal aspects in our society... something that benefits everyone.

Just curious, what do you mean by "patriarchal aspects" in our society?

[Othelos]

Actually, depends on what you mean by equality. The left is equality in terms of box height. The right is equality in terms of actual height.

This is what I mean. I believe men and women are equal. There is nothing that makes me look at a woman, and think, "What an inferior being". But, there are different roles that men and women fill, they complement each other, and maximize the gain that the family, the most basic social unit, can enjoy.

and? If women are to have real equality with men and vice versa, then roles should be taken by whoever wants them.

ex. a woman might not want to clean, but her husband is willing. so why should the woman HAVE to clean?

[Othelos]

anyone should be able to take any role they wish. Equality means being able to do the things that other people can.

"A picture is a thousand words". Alright. I concede. I am not for equality if that is what it means. I am still a just individual.

that image makes no sense, as it isn't equality if only one of the people can see the game.