Criticisms of Feminism

[Sefard]

Equality between the sexes is 'wrong'? That's a silly and stupid assertion.

Our argument is not about equality between the sexes. Most, if not all, people believe that men and women are equal. The concern is largely over roles.

[Othelos]

Equality between the sexes is 'wrong'? That's a silly and stupid assertion.

Our argument is not about equality between the sexes. Most, if not all, people believe that men and women are equal. The concern is largely over roles.

anyone should be able to take any role they wish. Equality means being able to do the things that other people can.

[Sefard]

Our argument is not about equality between the sexes. Most, if not all, people believe that men and women are equal. The concern is largely over roles.

anyone should be able to take any role they wish. Equality means being able to do the things that other people can.

"A picture is a thousand words". Alright. I concede. I am not for equality if that is what it means. I am still a just individual.

[Kelinfort]

anyone should be able to take any role they wish. Equality means being able to do the things that other people can.

"A picture is a thousand words". Alright. I concede. I am not for equality if that is what it means. I am still a just individual.

Actually, depends on what you mean by equality. The left is equality in terms of box height. The right is equality in terms of actual height.

[Olerand]

anyone should be able to take any role they wish. Equality means being able to do the things that other people can.

"A picture is a thousand words". Alright. I concede. I am not for equality if that is what it means. I am still a just individual.

How is this picture supposed to support your position? Women certainly aren't the tall man in this picture.

[The Sotoan Union]

The patriarchal system has lasted for the vast majority of human history. It has presided over our success, failures, and our moving forward. It remained for a reason, because it works.

Egalitarian hunter-gather societies?

[Kelinfort]

The patriarchal system has lasted for the vast majority of human history. It has presided over our success, failures, and our moving forward. It remained for a reason, because it works.

So did feudalism. Yet we advanced beyond that point. It is time to advance beyond patriarchy and end this antiquated social order.

[Sefard]

"A picture is a thousand words". Alright. I concede. I am not for equality if that is what it means. I am still a just individual.

Actually, depends on what you mean by equality. The left is equality in terms of box height. The right is equality in terms of actual height.

This is what I mean. I believe men and women are equal. There is nothing that makes me look at a woman, and think, "What an inferior being". But, there are different roles that men and women fill, they complement each other, and maximize the gain that the family, the most basic social unit, can enjoy.

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

This is what I mean. I believe men and women are equal. There is nothing that makes me look at a woman, and think, "What an inferior being". But, there are different roles that men and women fill, they complement each other, and maximize the gain that the family, the most basic social unit, can enjoy.

The following uses of the noun "man" specifically mean the experience of dyadic cis men in society. Intersex and trans people, in the current power relationship of a society defined by a gender superstructure, are oppressed in huge part because they have their gender de-legitimized and are demonized for issues related to the notion that being "normal" sex and gender wise is an inherent characteristic of the standard human narrative. And if our society asserts so much power based on gender, son, it's not to make women more powerful.

When a man says he feels threatened by misandrist feminism, he doesn't start to suffer femicide. When a man says he feels threatened by misandrist feminism, he doesn't bring the male gender a wide narrative of the victims of domestic violence. When a man says he feels threatened by misandrist feminism, he isn't subjected to be victim-blamed after he suffered a rape (by those who believe he can suffer rape), specially those in which the aggressor was the other possibly oppressing gender. When a man says he feels threatened by misandrist feminism, he doesn't start to fear violence perpetrated by women as he walks home. When a man says he feels threatened by misandrist feminism, he doesn't start to see bodies like his used as a marketing strategy, hypersexualized in magazines, ads, video games, art. When a man says he feels threatened by misandrist feminism, he isn't slut-shamed as part of a gendered double standard because of stuff only he and his partner have the right to decide a positive or not. When a man says he feels threatened by misandrist feminism, he won't hear gendered slurs because he has some skin showing. When a man says he feels threatened by misandrist feminism, he won't have a smaller wage for the same amount of service being paid. When a man says he feels threatened by misandrist feminism, he won't be criminalized for his decision of not being a parent (clandestine abortion kills 100.000+ people with ovarian bodies every year, but how many more men essentially abort by neglecting their children and nothing would happen to them as a consequence in these very countries?). When a man says he feels threatened by misandrist feminism, he isn't branded a dangerous extremist, an anti-social agent, a toxic manipulative existence with discriminatory intentions or whatever available ableist insult is a given in our society because he shared his lived experience as part of an oppressed social group or demands to have it changed. When a man says he feels threatened by misandrist feminism, he doesn't become a target of objectification. When a man says he feels threatened by misandrist feminism, he isn't prone to being sold in modern-day slavery. When a man says he feels threatened by misandrist feminism, he isn't exploited in prostitution to survive, a form of prostitution where it has become a staple for his body to be a consumption object. When a man says he feels threatened by misandrist feminism, he doesn't start to suffer all the kinds of silencing, censorship, depreciation, insults, discrimination, abuse, exploitation, violence and hatred women have to fight to change.

[Olerand]

Actually, depends on what you mean by equality. The left is equality in terms of box height. The right is equality in terms of actual height.

This is what I mean. I believe men and women are equal. There is nothing that makes me look at a woman, and think, "What an inferior being". But, there are different roles that men and women fill, they complement each other, and maximize the gain that the family, the most basic social unit, can enjoy.

Ugh, "complimentary", the newest code word for the retrograde right in Europe to oppose sexual and gender equality.

No, men and women aren't "complimentary". Other than the obvious biological factors, men and women don't "compliment" each other's existences.

[Kelinfort]

Actually, depends on what you mean by equality. The left is equality in terms of box height. The right is equality in terms of actual height.

This is what I mean. I believe men and women are equal. There is nothing that makes me look at a woman, and think, "What an inferior being". But, there are different roles that men and women fill, they complement each other, and maximize the gain that the family, the most basic social unit, can enjoy.

But this makes no sense. If two creatures are inherently equal, what's to prevent one from carrying out the tasks of the other? There is no inherent quality of humanity that calls for specific gender roles. This system is antiquated, and does not reflect our current situation. Women work the same as any male. Men can cook the same as any female, as well as support a family. Women can fight in combat just as men. Why do roles need to exist?

[Sefard]

This is what I mean. I believe men and women are equal. There is nothing that makes me look at a woman, and think, "What an inferior being". But, there are different roles that men and women fill, they complement each other, and maximize the gain that the family, the most basic social unit, can enjoy.

The following uses of the noun "man" specifically mean the experience of dyadic cis men in society. Intersex and trans people, in the current power relationship of a society defined by a gender superstructure, are oppressed in huge part because they have their gender de-legitimized and are demonized for issues related to the notion that being "normal" sex and gender wise is an inherent characteristic of the standard human narrative. And if our society asserts so much power based on gender, son, it's not to make women more powerful.

When a man says he feels threatened by misandrist feminism, he doesn't start to suffer femicide. When a man says he feels threatened by misandrist feminism, he doesn't bring the male gender a wide narrative of the victims of domestic violence. When a man says he feels threatened by misandrist feminism, he isn't subjected to be victim-blamed after he suffered a rape (by those who believe he can suffer rape), specially those in which the aggressor was the other possibly oppressing gender. When a man says he feels threatened by misandrist feminism, he doesn't start to fear violence perpetrated by women as he walks home. When a man says he feels threatened by misandrist feminism, he doesn't start to see bodies like his used as a marketing strategy, hypersexualized in magazines, ads, video games, art. When a man says he feels threatened by misandrist feminism, he isn't slut-shamed as part of a gendered double standard because of stuff only he and his partner have the right to decide a positive or not. When a man says he feels threatened by misandrist feminism, he won't hear gendered slurs because he has some skin showing. When a man says he feels threatened by misandrist feminism, he won't have a smaller wage for the same amount of service being paid. When a man says he feels threatened by misandrist feminism, he won't be criminalized for his decision of not being a parent (clandestine abortion kills 100.000+ people with ovarian bodies every year, but how many more men essentially abort by neglecting their children and nothing would happen to them as a consequence in these very countries?). When a man says he feels threatened by misandrist feminism, he isn't branded a dangerous extremist, an anti-social agent, a toxic manipulative existence with discriminatory intentions or whatever available ableist insult is a given in our society because he shared his lived experience as part of an oppressed social group or demands to have it changed. When a man says he feels threatened by misandrist feminism, he doesn't become a target of objectification. When a man says he feels threatened by misandrist feminism, he isn't prone to being sold in modern-day slavery. When a man says he feels threatened by misandrist feminism, he isn't exploited in prostitution to survive, a form of prostitution where it has become a staple for his body to be a consumption object. When a man says he feels threatened by misandrist feminism, he doesn't start to suffer all the kinds of silencing, censorship, depreciation, insults, discrimination, abuse, exploitation, violence and hatred women have to fight to change.

Quit your nonsense.

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

Ugh, "complimentary", the newest code word for the retrograde right in Europe to oppose sexual and gender equality.

No, men and women aren't "complimentary". Other than the obvious biological factors, men and women don't "compliment" each other's existences.

Even these don't cover all men and women, and some sets are just out of the equation - we are a society that must tolerate personal expression in such intimate regards, rather than make them public matter.

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

Quit your nonsense.

Nice non-argument.

[Sefard]

This is what I mean. I believe men and women are equal. There is nothing that makes me look at a woman, and think, "What an inferior being". But, there are different roles that men and women fill, they complement each other, and maximize the gain that the family, the most basic social unit, can enjoy.

But this makes no sense. If two creatures are inherently equal, what's to prevent one from carrying out the tasks of the other? There is no inherent quality of humanity that calls for specific gender roles. This system is antiquated, and does not reflect our current situation. Women work the same as any male. Men can cook the same as any female, as well as support a family. Women can fight in combat just as men. Why do roles need to exist?

Roles exist to give everyone purpose and to provide order in society.

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

Roles exist to give everyone purpose and to provide order in society.

More like to make people's lives miserable, divide them and make them obedient, allowing one's control.

[Kelinfort]

But this makes no sense. If two creatures are inherently equal, what's to prevent one from carrying out the tasks of the other? There is no inherent quality of humanity that calls for specific gender roles. This system is antiquated, and does not reflect our current situation. Women work the same as any male. Men can cook the same as any female, as well as support a family. Women can fight in combat just as men. Why do roles need to exist?

Roles exist to give everyone purpose and to provide order in society.

To which I say, bullshit. That is a principle of authoritarianism that has no basis in any liberal democratic system. Western society is ordered around ideals, not roles. Meritocracy trumps any sort of hierarchy.

[Saiwania]

I hold no love for feminism but neither do I have any for MRAs. I don't believe men in general are oppressed in society. Feminism is something I wouldn't recommend for men but would for women with self interests.

[Sefard]

Roles exist to give everyone purpose and to provide order in society.

To which I say, bullshit. That is a principle of authoritarianism that has no basis in any liberal democratic system. Western society is ordered around ideals, not roles. Meritocracy trumps any sort of hierarchy.

Meritocracy is a flawed system because it appeals to everyone differently. What you find meritable, I may not.

Ideally, everyone has a place and a role, that complements each other. Whether or not we engage in ideals, we must all accept that which is realistic and practical. I would like you to examine African American families, which are disproportionately headed by women. They are at an enormous disadvantageous compared to other families because of their situation. Should their men be made responsible to uphold their duties their families, certainly, their families would not suffer so. I await your excuse.

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

Ideally, everyone has a place and a role, that complements each other. Whether or not we engage in ideals, we must all accept that which is realistic and practical. I would like you to examine African American families, which are disproportionately headed by women. They are at an enormous disadvantageous compared to other families because of their situation. Should their men be made responsible to uphold their duties their families, certainly, their families would not suffer so. I await your excuse.

African-Americans in general are in a disadvantage because society fucks them over. Same is true for stuff women do. You provided fire for your opposing side.

[Sefard]

Ideally, everyone has a place and a role, that complements each other. Whether or not we engage in ideals, we must all accept that which is realistic and practical. I would like you to examine African American families, which are disproportionately headed by women. They are at an enormous disadvantageous compared to other families because of their situation. Should their men be made responsible to uphold their duties their families, certainly, their families would not suffer so. I await your excuse.

African-Americans in general are in a disadvantage because society fucks them over. Same is true for stuff women do. You provided fire for your opposing side.

In what ways does society fuck women over? (I'd entertain the African American discussion, but I want to stay on topic).

[Thermodolia]

I saw this thread just had to say something.

Because feminism is wrong, m'kay.

*looks around nervously hoping someone got the reference*

Before y'all say anything, I'm taking my self back to Forum 7

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

In what ways does society fuck women over? (I'd entertain the African American discussion, but I want to stay on topic).

The ways you dismissed as "nonsense" without providing further explanation.

More: http://amptoons.com/blog/the-male-privilege-checklist/

[Kelinfort]

To which I say, bullshit. That is a principle of authoritarianism that has no basis in any liberal democratic system. Western society is ordered around ideals, not roles. Meritocracy trumps any sort of hierarchy.

Meritocracy is a flawed system because it appeals to everyone differently. What you find meritable, I may not.

Ideally, everyone has a place and a role, that complements each other. Whether or not we engage in ideals, we must all accept that which is realistic and practical. I would like you to examine African American families, which are disproportionately headed by women. They are at an enormous disadvantageous compared to other families because of their situation. Should their men be made responsible to uphold their duties their families, certainly, their families would not suffer so. I await your excuse.

Ah, so your "roles" make much more sense because they...wait, no they don't. Again, roles are subjective to interpretation, more so than meritocracy in some respects.

And yet more bullshit. This is sexism at its finest. You see, you've resorted to pointing out matriarchal stereotypes in the African American community. And for what reason? The impoverished, as you well know, are not as well educated. Many men abandon your "successful" patriarchy. And why? Is it because of women working? Is it because women are in active combat roles? No. It is because of poverty. It is because they have grown up poor, indigent, and lack education. Your beliefs are inherently wrong as they force the whole of society into servitude, especially women. Not only that, but are we to believe single women families are the result of bad women or women in the workforce? No.

There are no roles in society, and I see not any reason as to why you claims are anything more than raving for the days when women were oppressed completely and utterly, only used for breeding, pleasure, and domestic work.

[Olerand]

African-Americans in general are in a disadvantage because society fucks them over. Same is true for stuff women do. You provided fire for your opposing side.

In what ways does society fuck women over? (I'd entertain the African American discussion, but I want to stay on topic).

Many ways. Most notably, a woman in America makes 23 cents less than a male counterpart doing the same work in the same employment. In France, she would make 15 cents less. This disparity also increases the more this woman advances in her profession, unexpectedly.