Criticisms of Feminism

[Nincenter]

I believe abortion is murder just as I believe eating grass is murder. As long as it lives and your intention is to consume or to end the life of it's all murder.

Screw everyone and change things not from the view of a party or system of belief or whatever! Decide on your own.

Bruh we gotta eat to survive

[The Great Nation of Dan]

I believe abortion is murder just as I believe eating grass is murder. As long as it lives and your intention is to consume or to end the life of it's all murder.

Screw everyone and change things not from the view of a party or system of belief or whatever! Decide on your own.

Bruh we gotta eat to survive

Hence why I'm okay with murder to a certain extent. All for the group none for the individual.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Bruh we gotta eat to survive

Hence why I'm okay with murder to a certain extent. All for the group none for the individual.

It's not murder, it's just killing.

[Tierra Prime]

snip

Nothing is stopping women from choosing higher paying jobs, they aren't forced to go into certain fields by this imaginary "patriarchy" you keep trying to push.

You know full well what I meant by reproductive rights, stop playing dumb. It's nice to see that you can find my points amusing, but you haven't actually countered any of them.

It's not the government's problem if women's products cost more, the free market takes care of pricing because, as far as I'm aware, Europe does not operate under a planned economic system.

There's no such thing as "discrimination from oppressed groups" - quotas are the only viable way. Germany and Norway already have quotas.

Don't make me laugh, you just have to look at the courts to see that they are biased against men. Blacks are capable of being racist, just as women are capable of being sexist, or do you think differently? Are you saying that discrimination is actually okay in certain circumstances? All quotas do is enforce discrimination by making people select job candidates or give out college places based on sex rather than skill, which is completely wrong. If you can't recognise any of this, you truly are delusional.

[Oil exporting People]

Wage pay gap.

I haven't see the stats for Sweden myself, but chances are it is as fake the supposed wage gap that exists within the Anglophone world.

Pink tax (women pay more than men for an haircut or a dress, on average).

Females tend to grow longer hair, and wear entirely different styles (More intricate, for example) of clothing. Basic economic principles dictate it will therefore cost more.

Reproductive rights ("F!" is advocating for free artificial insemination) and a lack of healthcare for women.

Dear God, I certainly hope it is cheaper there than it is in the States or else you guys are going to have much higher taxes. With regards to a lack of healthcare, I'd like to see a citation for that.

A relative lack of women in government, more severe regarding boards and in STEM field.

Are women to be forced into fields they don't want now?

There's still a bad attitude from a lot of Swedish men (indeed "F!" proposed courses to teach men a better lifestyle).

So in other words, brainwashing on the tax payer expense? Seriously.

[Forsher]

Pink tax (women pay more than men for an haircut or a dress, on average).

The haircut thing is ridiculous. I get a very simple haircut that takes less than fifteen minutes to complete. My brother is more complex and pays more as a result.

Now, if someone with long hair wants a number three all over, I guess it should cost the same but, on the other hand, it's more difficult work again because you have to get rid of all the long hair first, so it should also cost more.

[The New World Oceania]

Wage pay gap.

I haven't see the stats for Sweden myself, but chances are it is as fake the supposed wage gap that exists within the Anglophone world.

http://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/di ... text01.pdf

A relative lack of women in government, more severe regarding boards and in STEM field.

Are women to be forced into fields they don't want now?

Motherhood. As a matter of speculation, I imagine a lot of women coerced into motherhood would be pleased to be on exutive boards or in office if they didn't have to face inevitable discrimination based on gender.

There's still a bad attitude from a lot of Swedish men (indeed "F!" proposed courses to teach men a better lifestyle).

So in other words, brainwashing on the tax payer expense? Seriously.

If significantly decreasing levels of rape and of discrimination through the reduction of sexism is "brainwashing," I'm fine with it.

[The Great Nation of Dan]

I was doing a report back in highschool on what the the US Equal Pay Act of 1968 was or something like that. The teacher wanted me to answer the existence of the gender wage gap. She had one real life example of from her old work place some 40 years ago (today's date so it was around 1970-80) from what I remember.

Once upon a time a women was working as a assistance to a manager person who was a male.

The male needed more help because the work load was overwhelming the 2 of them and everyone else.

The male hired 3 other people and 1 extra assistant.

The the extra assistant was a male.

One day the assistant woman spotted assistant male's paycheck.

It was 'quite a bit large' than the assistant woman's paycheck.

Assistant woman filed a complaint with the male manager.

The male manager described he gave assistant male a larger pay check because his wife didn't work and that he was the sole 'bread winner' in a family with kids. And that assistant woman's spouse was employed and had no children.

Assistant women didn't do anything and was given a raise later on for her hard work sometime later from what I understand

Just wonder whether this seemly really that sexist. It just seems fairly logical to me to some whose total family income doesn't match that of a family in which both intimate partners are employed.

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

Just wonder whether this seemly really that sexist. It just seems fairly logical to me to some whose total family income doesn't match that of a family in which both intimate partners are employed.

In a capitalist economy, shouldn't her pay be based on the quality and difficulty of her work, and not on assumptions about her cost of living?

[The Great Nation of Dan]

Just wonder whether this seemly really that sexist. It just seems fairly logical to me to some whose total family income doesn't match that of a family in which both intimate partners are employed.

In a capitalist economy, shouldn't her pay be based on the quality and difficulty of her work, and not on assumptions about her cost of living?

I come from the Philippine islands we do most things out of communism friendship. This is just me mixing personal feeling into work and economics. In truth no one should be getting more than their fair compensation. But I believe in hand ups rather than handouts or hand hangings.

[Oil exporting People]

http://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/di ... text01.pdf

We're talking a 6% difference, and that is only in certain fields. Taking a guess here, maternity leave probably plays the biggest role in that.

Motherhood. As a matter of speculation, I imagine a lot of women coerced into motherhood would be pleased to be on exutive boards or in office if they didn't have to face inevitable discrimination based on gender.

Because Swedish women are obviously being forced into Motherhood, in spite of the fact your fertility rate doesn't correspond with this statement at all.

If significantly decreasing levels of rape and of discrimination through the reduction of sexism is "brainwashing," I'm fine with it.

Because Swedish men are always out raping, correct?

[Tierra Prime]

snip

That article takes into account occupation, which is obviously good, I'll give you that one, but it also states that the pay gap is actually in the 90% range, which is a lot lower than what feminists like to say. Legally, there is no reason why a woman would be paid less, and if it could be done easily, companies would hire more women than men. If women aren't going to actually talk to their bosses about wage differences, many of which are actually very slight and could be explained by pay grades, occupations, employment status and so on, there's nothing more that can be done.

Please, do explain how women are forced into motherhood, because abortions and adoptions are legal in most western states. If woman choose to have children rather than work, that's their choice.

Most western countries have education campaigns to stop rape and domestic abuse, what is wrong are the feminist ideas that women can't rape or beat men, or that men are inherently all violent rapists.

[The New World Oceania]

snip

That article takes into account occupation, which is obviously good, I'll give you that one, but it also states that the pay gap is actually in the 90% range, which is a lot lower than what feminists like to say. Legally, there is no reason why a woman would be paid less, and if it could be done easily, companies would hire more women than men. If women aren't going to actually talk to their bosses about wage differences, many of which are actually very slight and could be explained by pay grades, occupations, employment status and so on, there's nothing more that can be done.

No, if employers could easily pay employees less, they would pay them less. They can't, however. Women are conditioned to believe their work is of less worth than men's, and will therefore decline to object to being less valued in their employment as they become accustomed to it from birth. You falsely assume that what can be done is limited to legal considerations, whereas legitimate change must be evoked in society, not in law.

Please, do explain how women are forced into motherhood, because abortions and adoptions are legal in most western states. If woman choose to have children rather than work, that's their choice.

Again, the false pretenses that the law is the be-all-end-all. Even then we see clearly that there are many opposed to abortion, further coupled with the social pressures of fulfilling a motherhood role far from makes it a woman's choice.

Most western countries have education campaigns to stop rape and domestic abuse,

Which men's rights pseudo-activists vehemently oppose.

what is wrong are the feminist ideas that women can't rape or beat men, or that men are inherently all violent rapists.

Yes that is all the feminism congratulations A+

http://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/di ... text01.pdf

We're talking a 6% difference, and that is only in certain fields. Taking a guess here, maternity leave probably plays the biggest role in that.

Sweden has paid maternity leave. A gap is a gap.

Motherhood. As a matter of speculation, I imagine a lot of women coerced into motherhood would be pleased to be on exutive boards or in office if they didn't have to face inevitable discrimination based on gender.

Because Swedish women are obviously being forced into Motherhood, in spite of the fact your fertility rate doesn't correspond with this statement at all.

Fertility rate doesn't factor into this at all. Social pressures coerce women into motherhood.

If significantly decreasing levels of rape and of discrimination through the reduction of sexism is "brainwashing," I'm fine with it.

Because Swedish men are always out raping, correct?

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5195/sweden-rape

[Tierra Prime]

Women are conditioned to believe their work is of less worth than men's, and will therefore decline to object to being less valued in their employment as they become accustomed to it from birth.

I assume you have a credible source for this?

Again, the false pretenses that the law is the be-all-end-all. Even then we see clearly that there are many opposed to abortion, further coupled with the social pressures of fulfilling a motherhood role far from makes it a woman's choice.

The vast majority of woman freely choose to have or not have children, so you are incorrect.

Which men's rights pseudo-activists vehemently oppose.

Source this.

Yes that is all the feminism congratulations A+

Your pretentiousness doesn't automatically prove you correct. Those ideas have came from radical feminism, not the blue sky.

Social pressures coerce women into motherhood.

False, because it is women who make the choice, not society, and as declining birth rates show, they are choosing not to have children.

[Oil exporting People]

Fertility rate doesn't factor into this at all. Social pressures coerce women into motherhood.

Actually it does, because if all Swedish women are being forced to become Mothers, your fertility rate should be much higher. It's also laughable to suggest there are thingd forcing Swedish women to start families, instead of you know, ingrained biological instincts.

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5195/sweden-rape

I'm rather surprised a Feminist used a Conservative source. Interesting thing to note is that most of those rapists aren't native Swedish men, but rather immigrants or their children.

[The New World Oceania]

Women are conditioned to believe their work is of less worth than men's, and will therefore decline to object to being less valued in their employment as they become accustomed to it from birth.

I assume you have a credible source for this?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/mon ... -devalued/

Again, the false pretenses that the law is the be-all-end-all. Even then we see clearly that there are many opposed to abortion, further coupled with the social pressures of fulfilling a motherhood role far from makes it a woman's choice.

The vast majority of woman freely choose to have or not have children, so you are incorrect.

http://articles.latimes.com/1992-02-26/ ... e-abortion

Which men's rights pseudo-activists vehemently oppose.

Source this.

http://www.salon.com/2013/07/12/mens_ri ... ike_again/

Yes that is all the feminism congratulations A+

Your pretentiousness doesn't automatically prove you correct. Those ideas have came from radical feminism, not the blue sky.

Do you know what radical feminism is? And do you have any evidence these are prevalent ideas?

Social pressures coerce women into motherhood.

False, because it is women who make the choice, not society, and as declining birth rates show, they are not making the choice.

You seem to have the privilege of not having to be extensively influenced by societal expectations or else fear for your life. Many of us are not so lucky.

[Tierra Prime]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/mon ... -devalued/

No where does this imply that there is a conspiracy to keep woman from succeeding, or that they are conditioned from birth to fail.

http://articles.latimes.com/1992-02-26/ ... e-abortion

Nothing in that articles says that western woman are forced into having children. Some Nigerian women, yes, but not western woman.

http://www.salon.com/2013/07/12/mens_ri ... ike_again/

You are correct about some MRAs, I'll give you this one, but that does not mean an education campaign wouldn't work, or that all MRAs are anti-women.

Do you know what radical feminism is? And do you have any evidence these are prevalent ideas?

I well know what it is. Here's an article that shows how prevalent the idea that men cannot be raped actually is.

http://www.salon.com/2012/05/03/who_say ... _be_raped/

And here's an article that discusses how female abuse towards men is actually seen as a good thing by some.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens ... abuse.html

You seem to have the privilege of not having to be extensively influenced by societal expectations or else fear for your life. Many of us are not so lucky.

This is irrelevant.

[Natapoc]

snip

Nothing is stopping women from choosing higher paying jobs, they aren't forced to go into certain fields by this imaginary "patriarchy" you keep trying to push.

You know full well what I meant by reproductive rights, stop playing dumb. It's nice to see that you can find my points amusing, but you haven't actually countered any of them.

It's not the government's problem if women's products cost more, the free market takes care of pricing because, as far as I'm aware, Europe does not operate under a planned economic system.

There's no such thing as "discrimination from oppressed groups" - quotas are the only viable way. Germany and Norway already have quotas.

Don't make me laugh, you just have to look at the courts to see that they are biased against men. Blacks are capable of being racist, just as women are capable of being sexist, or do you think differently? Are you saying that discrimination is actually okay in certain circumstances? All quotas do is enforce discrimination by making people select job candidates or give out college places based on sex rather than skill, which is completely wrong. If you can't recognise any of this, you truly are delusional.

The courts are primarily run by men. Most judges are men, most prosecutors are men, most police officers are men...

And you believe that the courts are bias against men?

[The New World Oceania]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/mon ... -devalued/

No where does this imply that there is a conspiracy to keep woman from succeeding, or that they are conditioned from birth to fail.

"The finding that international relations articles written by women receive fewer citations than those written by men is surprising and disturbing to many in political science."
"The researchers found that job candidates with traditionally female names were rated less qualified and offered a lower average salary, despite the fact that all other information was identical."
"The same abstracts with traditionally female author names were rated less well, especially in subject areas considered traditionally male, including politics. In both studies, male and female evaluators were equally likely to devalue the work of women."
"Societal messages inundate us with information that create subconscious biases favoring the intellectual contributions of men. This was brought home to me recently by my four year old son."
"Women, too, have been raised in a culture that systematically devalues contributions by women and thus suffer from the same subconscious biases."

http://articles.latimes.com/1992-02-26/ ... e-abortion

Nothing in that articles says that western woman are forced into having children. Some Nigerian women, yes, but not western woman.

The same principles which drive sexism in Nigeria are present and drive sexism in the West.

http://www.salon.com/2013/07/12/mens_ri ... ike_again/

You are correct about some MRAs, I'll give you this one, but that does not mean an education campaign wouldn't work, or that all MRAs are anti-women.

Feminism was theorized to empower women. Men's rights "activism" was formed in lust for a binary opposition, arguing that there must be a parity to balance female empowerment. As an inextricable result of its origins we demonstrably see a significant number of men's rights "activists" merely using a movement some adhere to in good faith as a means to counter feminism without legitimate basis.

Do you know what radical feminism is? And do you have any evidence these are prevalent ideas?

I well know what it is.

Define.

Here's an article that shows how prevalent the idea that men cannot be raped actually is.

http://www.salon.com/2012/05/03/who_say ... _be_raped/

"A tabloid story about a German 'nymphomaniac'" does not constitute incredible prevalence of the idea.

And here's an article that discusses how female abuse towards men is actually seen as a good thing by some.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens ... abuse.html

Once again you will note that your claim is "what is wrong are the feminist ideas that women can't rape or beat men, or that men are inherently all violent rapists." This article declines to indicate that any of these hypotheses are commonly shared among feminists. Furthermore,vot directly address the issue raised by the article, radical feminism through the postmodern deconstruction of sexual binaries would revoke the governance of the privileged term, thereby resolving the issue socially through the modification of semiotics.

You seem to have the privilege of not having to be extensively influenced by societal expectations or else fear for your life. Many of us are not so lucky.

This is irrelevant.

Surely you are not denying that people are not influenced by their surroundings, and surely you are not denying that women have a social obligation to be more so influenced, else threatened with violence.

[Tierra Prime]

Nothing is stopping women from choosing higher paying jobs, they aren't forced to go into certain fields by this imaginary "patriarchy" you keep trying to push.

You know full well what I meant by reproductive rights, stop playing dumb. It's nice to see that you can find my points amusing, but you haven't actually countered any of them.

It's not the government's problem if women's products cost more, the free market takes care of pricing because, as far as I'm aware, Europe does not operate under a planned economic system.


Don't make me laugh, you just have to look at the courts to see that they are biased against men. Blacks are capable of being racist, just as women are capable of being sexist, or do you think differently? Are you saying that discrimination is actually okay in certain circumstances? All quotas do is enforce discrimination by making people select job candidates or give out college places based on sex rather than skill, which is completely wrong. If you can't recognise any of this, you truly are delusional.

The courts are primarily run by men. Most judges are men, most prosecutors are men, most police officers are men...

And you believe that the courts are bias against men?

Yes, it's clearly obvious. Do you have any evidence to prove they aren't (Such as statistics that show that men are now treated fairly in custody cases, divorces, ect.) or did you just want to waste my time?

[Natapoc]

The courts are primarily run by men. Most judges are men, most prosecutors are men, most police officers are men...

And you believe that the courts are bias against men?

Yes, it's clearly obvious. Do you have any evidence to prove they aren't (Such as statistics that show that men are now treated fairly in custody cases, divorces, ect.) or did you just want to waste my time?

Why would men be so bias against men? (really I want to know your theory about how men oppress all men)

Anyway men are not treated unfairly in divorce or custody cases. In most custody cases the men don't get the children simply because they don't want them. In cases where the men do want them they actually tend to have a lot of really unfair advantages.

If anything the courts are bias against women.

[The New World Oceania]

ingrained biological instincts.

You have no source, no rationale, and an offensively sexist statement. I could say men have an ingrained biological instinct to rape, but it's not a claim going anywhere because it's unsupported — like your own claim. See here before you scour someone's blog looking to back up your claim.

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5195/sweden-rape

I'm rather surprised a Feminist used a Conservative source. Interesting thing to note is that most of those rapists aren't native Swedish men, but rather immigrants or their children.
Whatever the cause, the point is that sexual assault is a significant issue in Sweden. I'm certainly not seeking to say that Swedes are more prone to rape, or anything of the sort.

[Galloism]

Yes, it's clearly obvious. Do you have any evidence to prove they aren't (Such as statistics that show that men are now treated fairly in custody cases, divorces, ect.) or did you just want to waste my time?

Why would men be so bias against men? (really I want to know your theory about how men oppress all men)

Anyway men are not treated unfairly in divorce or custody cases. In most custody cases the men don't get the children simply because they don't want them.

This is simply speaking flat out untrue. Such studies that have been done show divorced fathers want joint or sole custody between 70 and 80% of the time, but are usually dissuaded by professional legal advice that they can't possibly win it.

[Natapoc]

Why would men be so bias against men? (really I want to know your theory about how men oppress all men)

Anyway men are not treated unfairly in divorce or custody cases. In most custody cases the men don't get the children simply because they don't want them.

This is simply speaking flat out untrue. Such studies that have been done show divorced fathers want joint or sole custody between 70 and 80% of the time, but are usually dissuaded by professional legal advice that they can't possibly win it.

By want I meant, actually bring it up and request it. I'm not talking about the legal advice they get. But I'll look at your source later. I know I've seen sources before that indicated what I said.

[Galloism]

This is simply speaking flat out untrue. Such studies that have been done show divorced fathers want joint or sole custody between 70 and 80% of the time, but are usually dissuaded by professional legal advice that they can't possibly win it.

By want I meant, actually bring it up and request it. I'm not talking about the legal advice they get. But I'll look at your source later. I know I've seen sources before that indicated what I said.

Custodial battles are subject to extreme selection effects - largely thanks to their cost. Anything more than an exceptionally strong case from the male and a professional suggests not to contest - because they are doomed to lose against even a mediocre or poor case from a woman.

"Wants" and "goes to court for" are very very very different things.