NATION

PASSWORD

Criticisms of Feminism

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

User avatar
The Confederacy of Nationalism
Minister
 
Posts: 2334
Founded: Sep 05, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Confederacy of Nationalism » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:00 am

Shevardino wrote:Has any poster here remarked that the pay gap is a lie yet? Same work is same pay. The "at the same job" part tacked onto the gender pay gap is a very common misquote (something you can literally say "Thanks Obama," too, since he also has said it). The average woman makes less than the average man. Not "a woman gets payed about 77% what a man gets payed at the same job." Woman on average work lower paying jobs (there are many other issues with the robustness of the statistic, for instance, it doesn't include hours worked, meaning even at the same job, a man can work overtime consistently and of course get payed more than a woman coworker, and men do work significantly more overtime on average than women). Ever single female STEM major I knew changed to humanities majors before the end of freshman year, and it's an extremely common trend across the entire nation. Most women can't make the cut, or don't utilize the massive amounts of woman-only resources and opportunities that fill my university mailbox to the brim every week. The only women I see around the lab I work at are all Asian immigrants except for one. ONE. Something needs to be done to encourage women to use the resources available to them without lowering standards of high education/skill fields to meet arbitrary employment quotas. Maybe a shift in cultural expectations. Men are expected to be the independent bread-winners of every family, and this could be the pressure that pushes many men through long arduous hours of hard studying to do things they hate for money they are expected to earn. Surely there must be some way to redistribute this such that both genders are expected to be successful, hardworking, and independent.

Or, maybe, we should start thinking about how better workers get paid more, regardless of their sex.
Keep right -->
Don't give in to degeneracy,

My honor, my dignity, my pride above my life. No regrets.
American Ultranationalist
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" - Voltaire / "If you want to shine like the sun, first you have to burn like it!" - Adolf Hitler
Resident Social Darwinist

User avatar
Stagnant Axon Terminal
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15649
Founded: Feb 24, 2014
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Stagnant Axon Terminal » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:02 am

The Confederacy of Nationalism wrote:
Albul wrote:Isn't this what we've been saying the entire time?

Now you're just posting for the hell of it. >:(

nope, I'm saying they necessarily exist together, dependence is different

No, they don't necessarily exist together. We can get rid of gender roles.
TET's resident state assessment exam
My interests include baking cookies, make-up,
shopping for dresses and high heels, glittery Christmas ornaments,
and dead things.
I scream a lot
Tumblr | Twitter
Nanatsu No Tsuki wrote:the fetus will never eat cake if you abort it

Cu Math wrote:Axon is like a bear with a PH.D. She debates at first, then eats your face.
The Empire of Pretantia wrote:THE MAN'S PENIS HAS LEFT THE VAGINA. IT'S THE UTERUS'S TURN TO SHINE.

User avatar
Tubbsalot
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9196
Founded: Oct 17, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Tubbsalot » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:02 am

Shevardino wrote:Ever single female STEM major I knew changed to humanities majors before the end of freshman year, and it's an extremely common trend across the entire nation. Most women can't make the cut

Please learn something about these issues before embarrassing yourself. And your anecdotes don't qualify as data, as my cohort in chemistry - primarily women - would be glad to remind you.
"Twats love flags." - Yootopia

User avatar
Degenerate Heart of HetRio
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10600
Founded: Feb 12, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Degenerate Heart of HetRio » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:02 am

The Confederacy of Nationalism wrote:
Stagnant Axon Terminal wrote:sauce on that.

http://www.unomaha.edu/news/2013/10/UNO ... -Roles.php
http://www.uni.edu/walsh/sexdiff.pdf
http://academic.reed.edu/biology/course ... n_2000.pdf
http://people.virginia.edu/~ser6f/udry.pdf

and some purely physical stuff:
http://www.intercult.su.se/publications ... _2007c.pdf

EDIT: forgot this bit too, might want to take a read
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK10975/

Obviously, the evidence suggest that gender roles are not always the same when comparing different species, but they undoubtedly exist.

basically just look up sexual dimorphism and behavioral dimorphism between sexes.

Corporeality is not gender, and human behavior isn't primarily fueled by instinct, in distinction from most other species of animals. How is that difficult to understand?

If you pumped testosterone in a specimen of ovarian corporeality, or if you pumped androgen blockers, progesteron and estrogen in a specimen of testicular corporeality, you'd likely see a change.

This change triggered by a mere difference in endocrine function would be less likely to observed in individuals that have a neurological structure influenced in a greater depth by intra-uterine hormone bath, also causing them to also have more in-group differences and out-group similarities than other species.

Nothing of this has to do with the human concept of gender that is UNIQUE, because as I said, it depends on CULTURE and SELF-AWARENESS. We behave through learning and social immersion. Do you even fucking understand how we function as a species?
Pro: Communism/anarchism, Indigenous rights, MOGAI stuff, bodily autonomy, disability rights, environmentalism
Meh: Animal rights, non-harmful religion/superstition, militant atheism, left-leaning reform of capitalism
Anti: Dyadic superstructure (sex-gender birth designation and hierarchy), positivism, conservatism, imperialism, Zionism, Orientalism, fascism, religious right, bending to reactionary concerns before freedom/common concern, fraudulent beliefs and ideologies

Formerly "Hetalian Indie Rio de Janeiro".

Compass: -10.00, -9.13
S-E Ideology: Demc. Socialist (92% ditto/Marxist, 75% Anarchist/Social democrat, 0% etc)
S-E school of thought: Communist (100% ditto, 96% Post-Keynesian)

Though this says I'm a social democrat, I'm largely a left communist.

User avatar
The Confederacy of Nationalism
Minister
 
Posts: 2334
Founded: Sep 05, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Confederacy of Nationalism » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:03 am

Tubbsalot wrote:
Stagnant Axon Terminal wrote:Okay, now you are a little bit off here. Gender roles in tribal humans was absolutely necessary for the preservation of the species.

[Long story short, women had to be preserved for baby-making, men didn't, so women were prioritised. - Ed.]

Well, no. The human population for most of history wasn't limited by our rate of reproduction, it was limited by the availability of food and water. Women generally had several years in between pregnancies. This isn't something that I've read up on, but I suspect the male physique was preserved into late human development mainly by competition for mates.

In any case, gender roles weren't necessary even back in ye olde caveman times. The only area where men were essentially required was in the hunting of large, powerful prey - societies could be (and were) sustained mainly on the back of foraging, trapping and fishing. Hunting was a luxury more than a necessity.

The Confederacy of Nationalism wrote:I'm not, I'm arguing that as long as sexual reproduction exists, gender roles will too. Sexual reproduction isn't dependent on gender roles, but the two follow hand-in-hand.

Again, you haven't grasped that gender roles are a SOCIAL phenomenon regarding the appropriate behaviour of men and women. There are societies where the gender roles have dictated that women be aggressive and physical, and the men passive and gentle. They are correlated with, spring in part from, but are not dictated by biology - and as we've established, they're crap, so I don't see why we're making excuses for them.

It's not entirely social and it's not entirely biological, but to claim you can get rid of the biological portion it is foolish.
Keep right -->
Don't give in to degeneracy,

My honor, my dignity, my pride above my life. No regrets.
American Ultranationalist
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" - Voltaire / "If you want to shine like the sun, first you have to burn like it!" - Adolf Hitler
Resident Social Darwinist

User avatar
Tubbsalot
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9196
Founded: Oct 17, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Tubbsalot » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:06 am

The Confederacy of Nationalism wrote:
Tubbsalot wrote:Again, you haven't grasped that gender roles are a SOCIAL phenomenon regarding the appropriate behaviour of men and women. There are societies where the gender roles have dictated that women be aggressive and physical, and the men passive and gentle. They are correlated with, spring in part from, but are not dictated by biology - and as we've established, they're crap, so I don't see why we're making excuses for them.

It's not entirely social and it's not entirely biological, but to claim you can get rid of the biological portion it is foolish.

Nobody was claiming we can eliminate biological differences. They were claiming we can get rid of gender roles, which we can, because gender roles are not dictated by our biology. All you need to do is view gender as irrelevant when it comes to how people should act, and you no longer adhere to gender roles.
"Twats love flags." - Yootopia

User avatar
Shevardino
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 14
Founded: Oct 14, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Shevardino » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:06 am

Tubbsalot wrote:
Shevardino wrote:Ever single female STEM major I knew changed to humanities majors before the end of freshman year, and it's an extremely common trend across the entire nation. Most women can't make the cut

Please learn something about these issues before embarrassing yourself. And your anecdotes don't qualify as data, as my cohort in chemistry - primarily women - would be glad to remind you.

Learn something about these issues before I embarrass myself? How have I embarrassed myself? All you did was provide an anecdote to say I'm wrong. Majority of people in STEM fields are men. It's true, and it's what I said. Sure I provided an anecdote, but it DOES correspond to the average trend across the nation.

User avatar
Degenerate Heart of HetRio
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10600
Founded: Feb 12, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Degenerate Heart of HetRio » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:06 am

Albul wrote:
The Confederacy of Nationalism wrote:Well, I'm fairly certain that someone claimed that it would be possible to remove gender roles entirely, while keeping sexual reproduction.

A man keeps his penis and a woman keeps his vagina.

A "feminine" man would have no impact on the reproductive processes of a "masculine" woman.

Not to mention intersex and trans people already exist.

In fact there are non-het couples that can reproduce.
Pro: Communism/anarchism, Indigenous rights, MOGAI stuff, bodily autonomy, disability rights, environmentalism
Meh: Animal rights, non-harmful religion/superstition, militant atheism, left-leaning reform of capitalism
Anti: Dyadic superstructure (sex-gender birth designation and hierarchy), positivism, conservatism, imperialism, Zionism, Orientalism, fascism, religious right, bending to reactionary concerns before freedom/common concern, fraudulent beliefs and ideologies

Formerly "Hetalian Indie Rio de Janeiro".

Compass: -10.00, -9.13
S-E Ideology: Demc. Socialist (92% ditto/Marxist, 75% Anarchist/Social democrat, 0% etc)
S-E school of thought: Communist (100% ditto, 96% Post-Keynesian)

Though this says I'm a social democrat, I'm largely a left communist.

User avatar
Geanna
Minister
 
Posts: 2177
Founded: Jul 09, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Geanna » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:07 am

Tubbsalot wrote:
Stagnant Axon Terminal wrote:Okay, now you are a little bit off here. Gender roles in tribal humans was absolutely necessary for the preservation of the species.

[Long story short, women had to be preserved for baby-making, men didn't, so women were prioritised. - Ed.]

Well, no. The human population for most of history wasn't limited by our rate of reproduction, it was limited by the availability of food and water. Women generally had several years in between pregnancies. This isn't something that I've read up on, but I suspect the male physique was preserved into late human development mainly by competition for mates.

In any case, gender roles weren't necessary even back in ye olde caveman times. The only area where men were essentially required was in the hunting of large, powerful prey - societies could be (and were) sustained mainly on the back of foraging, trapping and fishing. Hunting was a luxury more than a necessity.

The Confederacy of Nationalism wrote:I'm not, I'm arguing that as long as sexual reproduction exists, gender roles will too. Sexual reproduction isn't dependent on gender roles, but the two follow hand-in-hand.

Again, you haven't grasped that gender roles are a SOCIAL phenomenon regarding the appropriate behaviour of men and women. There are societies where the gender roles have dictated that women be aggressive and physical, and the men passive and gentle. They are correlated with, spring in part from, but are not dictated by biology - and as we've established, they're crap, so I don't see why we're making excuses for them.


We're, or more so, a certain individual - is formulating excuses because Point A skips B and decides Y is the next point. In all, I have a hard time trying to understand the correlation or otherwise connection thereof, in regards to what Nationalism is stating. Gender is indeed a societal construct, specifically applied to the idea of gender roles. Basing that there is some form of connection or correlation of gender roles and sexual reproduction just seems to be sophistry - or ignorance.

In which case, upon more analytical review over the majority of statements Nat has used - either A) Ignorance is to play here, B) There is legitimately a lack of understanding pertaining to the discussion, C) All of the above.

I can't help but sense a rather strong vibe or otherwise manipulative misdirect from the root of the discussion, to trying to imply that women are set into their perceived gender role biologically, going off by Nat's logic it seems. Ill logic as that may be.
LOVEWHOYOUARE~


"We dance on the lines of our destruction and continuation, to waltz and achieve the happiness of our existence, and to be the laughter in a world of silence."

User avatar
Stagnant Axon Terminal
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15649
Founded: Feb 24, 2014
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Stagnant Axon Terminal » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:07 am

Tubbsalot wrote:
Shevardino wrote:Ever single female STEM major I knew changed to humanities majors before the end of freshman year, and it's an extremely common trend across the entire nation. Most women can't make the cut

Please learn something about these issues before embarrassing yourself. And your anecdotes don't qualify as data, as my cohort in chemistry - primarily women - would be glad to remind you.

Female physics and math double major here to remind Shevardino that women throughout the course of their lives are discouraged from participating in hard sciences and excused from being held to high science-related knowledge levels because "aw it's okay, girls don't need to learn math and science."
Societal pressures are what keep women from doing well in science and math and from being interested in them. Men aren't fucking special or more intelligent.
TET's resident state assessment exam
My interests include baking cookies, make-up,
shopping for dresses and high heels, glittery Christmas ornaments,
and dead things.
I scream a lot
Tumblr | Twitter
Nanatsu No Tsuki wrote:the fetus will never eat cake if you abort it

Cu Math wrote:Axon is like a bear with a PH.D. She debates at first, then eats your face.
The Empire of Pretantia wrote:THE MAN'S PENIS HAS LEFT THE VAGINA. IT'S THE UTERUS'S TURN TO SHINE.

User avatar
Shevardino
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 14
Founded: Oct 14, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Shevardino » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:07 am

Shevardino wrote:
Tubbsalot wrote:Please learn something about these issues before embarrassing yourself. And your anecdotes don't qualify as data, as my cohort in chemistry - primarily women - would be glad to remind you.

Learn something about these issues before I embarrass myself? How have I embarrassed myself? All you did was provide an anecdote to say I'm wrong. Majority of people in STEM fields are men. It's true, and it's what I said. Sure I provided an anecdote, but it DOES correspond to the average trend across the nation.

Here, have some sauce to go with it. Women only make up 26% of STEM workers.
https://www.sba.gov/advocacy/understand ... reneurship

User avatar
The Confederacy of Nationalism
Minister
 
Posts: 2334
Founded: Sep 05, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Confederacy of Nationalism » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:08 am

Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:
The Confederacy of Nationalism wrote:http://www.unomaha.edu/news/2013/10/UNO ... -Roles.php
http://www.uni.edu/walsh/sexdiff.pdf
http://academic.reed.edu/biology/course ... n_2000.pdf
http://people.virginia.edu/~ser6f/udry.pdf

and some purely physical stuff:
http://www.intercult.su.se/publications ... _2007c.pdf

EDIT: forgot this bit too, might want to take a read
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK10975/

Obviously, the evidence suggest that gender roles are not always the same when comparing different species, but they undoubtedly exist.

basically just look up sexual dimorphism and behavioral dimorphism between sexes.

Corporeality is not gender, and human behavior isn't primarily fueled by instinct, in distinction from most other species of animals. How is that difficult to understand?

If you pumped testosterone in a specimen of ovarian corporeality, or if you pumped androgen blockers, progesteron and estrogen in a specimen of testicular corporeality, you'd likely see a change.

This change triggered by a mere difference in endocrine function would be less likely to observed in individuals that have a neurological structure influenced in a greater depth by intra-uterine hormone bath, also causing them to also have more in-group differences and out-group similarities than other species.

Nothing of this has to do with the human concept of gender that is UNIQUE, because as I said, it depends on CULTURE and SELF-AWARENESS. We behave through learning and social immersion. Do you even fucking understand how we function as a species?

human-exceptionalism isn't going to help you here. Mammals have gender roles, birds do too. They're more pronounced and necessary for survival, just as ours once were. Yes, there are socially constructed gender roles, but the desire to form such roles in the first place is a biological holdover from when we needed them. In any case, I've got to get some sleep, so, night mate.
Keep right -->
Don't give in to degeneracy,

My honor, my dignity, my pride above my life. No regrets.
American Ultranationalist
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" - Voltaire / "If you want to shine like the sun, first you have to burn like it!" - Adolf Hitler
Resident Social Darwinist

User avatar
Stagnant Axon Terminal
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15649
Founded: Feb 24, 2014
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Stagnant Axon Terminal » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:09 am

Shevardino wrote:
Tubbsalot wrote:Please learn something about these issues before embarrassing yourself. And your anecdotes don't qualify as data, as my cohort in chemistry - primarily women - would be glad to remind you.

Learn something about these issues before I embarrass myself? How have I embarrassed myself? All you did was provide an anecdote to say I'm wrong. Majority of people in STEM fields are men. It's true, and it's what I said. Sure I provided an anecdote, but it DOES correspond to the average trend across the nation.

Majority of STEM majors are men because of sexism. Not because men are better than women.
TET's resident state assessment exam
My interests include baking cookies, make-up,
shopping for dresses and high heels, glittery Christmas ornaments,
and dead things.
I scream a lot
Tumblr | Twitter
Nanatsu No Tsuki wrote:the fetus will never eat cake if you abort it

Cu Math wrote:Axon is like a bear with a PH.D. She debates at first, then eats your face.
The Empire of Pretantia wrote:THE MAN'S PENIS HAS LEFT THE VAGINA. IT'S THE UTERUS'S TURN TO SHINE.

User avatar
Shevardino
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 14
Founded: Oct 14, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Shevardino » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:09 am

Stagnant Axon Terminal wrote:
Tubbsalot wrote:Please learn something about these issues before embarrassing yourself. And your anecdotes don't qualify as data, as my cohort in chemistry - primarily women - would be glad to remind you.

Female physics and math double major here to remind Shevardino that women throughout the course of their lives are discouraged from participating in hard sciences and excused from being held to high science-related knowledge levels because "aw it's okay, girls don't need to learn math and science."
Societal pressures are what keep women from doing well in science and math and from being interested in them. Men aren't fucking special or more intelligent.

If you read the end of my original post, you'll clearly see that I addressed the issues of societal pressure, and said it needs to change such that women are encouraged to be successful and independent.

User avatar
Degenerate Heart of HetRio
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10600
Founded: Feb 12, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Degenerate Heart of HetRio » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:09 am

Albul wrote:Now, in what world does aggression play into sexual reproduction, rather than sexual selection?

In the same world where non-self-aware animals have gender.
Pro: Communism/anarchism, Indigenous rights, MOGAI stuff, bodily autonomy, disability rights, environmentalism
Meh: Animal rights, non-harmful religion/superstition, militant atheism, left-leaning reform of capitalism
Anti: Dyadic superstructure (sex-gender birth designation and hierarchy), positivism, conservatism, imperialism, Zionism, Orientalism, fascism, religious right, bending to reactionary concerns before freedom/common concern, fraudulent beliefs and ideologies

Formerly "Hetalian Indie Rio de Janeiro".

Compass: -10.00, -9.13
S-E Ideology: Demc. Socialist (92% ditto/Marxist, 75% Anarchist/Social democrat, 0% etc)
S-E school of thought: Communist (100% ditto, 96% Post-Keynesian)

Though this says I'm a social democrat, I'm largely a left communist.

User avatar
The Confederacy of Nationalism
Minister
 
Posts: 2334
Founded: Sep 05, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Confederacy of Nationalism » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:09 am

Shevardino wrote:
Shevardino wrote:Learn something about these issues before I embarrass myself? How have I embarrassed myself? All you did was provide an anecdote to say I'm wrong. Majority of people in STEM fields are men. It's true, and it's what I said. Sure I provided an anecdote, but it DOES correspond to the average trend across the nation.

Here, have some sauce to go with it. Women only make up 26% of STEM workers.
https://www.sba.gov/advocacy/understand ... reneurship

*sauce dropping intensifies more*
Keep right -->
Don't give in to degeneracy,

My honor, my dignity, my pride above my life. No regrets.
American Ultranationalist
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" - Voltaire / "If you want to shine like the sun, first you have to burn like it!" - Adolf Hitler
Resident Social Darwinist

User avatar
Shevardino
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 14
Founded: Oct 14, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Shevardino » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:10 am

Stagnant Axon Terminal wrote:
Shevardino wrote:Learn something about these issues before I embarrass myself? How have I embarrassed myself? All you did was provide an anecdote to say I'm wrong. Majority of people in STEM fields are men. It's true, and it's what I said. Sure I provided an anecdote, but it DOES correspond to the average trend across the nation.

Majority of STEM majors are men because of sexism. Not because men are better than women.

Please show me where I said men are better than women. IF I recall, in my original post, I said there is more societal pressure on men to go into these fields than on women, and said it needed to be changed.

User avatar
MERIZoC
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 23691
Founded: Dec 05, 2013
Left-wing Utopia

Postby MERIZoC » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:10 am

So, in conclusion, OP doesn't know what feminism is?
FUTBOL GANG
Somewhere to the left of Attila the Hun
Social Juchetice Warrior
More cool stuff

Pizzagate expert
Guinean Unionist

The NS Parliament—Christian People's Congress: Join us! For family and faith.

User avatar
Geanna
Minister
 
Posts: 2177
Founded: Jul 09, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Geanna » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:10 am

Merizoc wrote:So, in conclusion, OP doesn't know what feminism is?


Pretty much.
LOVEWHOYOUARE~


"We dance on the lines of our destruction and continuation, to waltz and achieve the happiness of our existence, and to be the laughter in a world of silence."

User avatar
Stagnant Axon Terminal
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15649
Founded: Feb 24, 2014
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Stagnant Axon Terminal » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:11 am

Merizoc wrote:So, in conclusion, OP doesn't know what feminism is?

Yep.
TET's resident state assessment exam
My interests include baking cookies, make-up,
shopping for dresses and high heels, glittery Christmas ornaments,
and dead things.
I scream a lot
Tumblr | Twitter
Nanatsu No Tsuki wrote:the fetus will never eat cake if you abort it

Cu Math wrote:Axon is like a bear with a PH.D. She debates at first, then eats your face.
The Empire of Pretantia wrote:THE MAN'S PENIS HAS LEFT THE VAGINA. IT'S THE UTERUS'S TURN TO SHINE.

User avatar
Degenerate Heart of HetRio
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10600
Founded: Feb 12, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Degenerate Heart of HetRio » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:11 am

The Confederacy of Nationalism wrote:human-exceptionalism isn't going to help you here. Mammals have gender roles, birds do too. They're more pronounced and necessary for survival, just as ours once were. Yes, there are socially constructed gender roles, but the desire to form such roles in the first place is a biological holdover from when we needed them. In any case, I've got to get some sleep, so, night mate.

Which part of animals don't have genders and humans don't act anywhere near purely based on instinct, or in degrees where it is socially significant, because evolution has done away with it, you didn't conveniently ignore?

Every human has a unique psyche and neurological wiring. You aren't helping your case.
Pro: Communism/anarchism, Indigenous rights, MOGAI stuff, bodily autonomy, disability rights, environmentalism
Meh: Animal rights, non-harmful religion/superstition, militant atheism, left-leaning reform of capitalism
Anti: Dyadic superstructure (sex-gender birth designation and hierarchy), positivism, conservatism, imperialism, Zionism, Orientalism, fascism, religious right, bending to reactionary concerns before freedom/common concern, fraudulent beliefs and ideologies

Formerly "Hetalian Indie Rio de Janeiro".

Compass: -10.00, -9.13
S-E Ideology: Demc. Socialist (92% ditto/Marxist, 75% Anarchist/Social democrat, 0% etc)
S-E school of thought: Communist (100% ditto, 96% Post-Keynesian)

Though this says I'm a social democrat, I'm largely a left communist.

User avatar
Stagnant Axon Terminal
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15649
Founded: Feb 24, 2014
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Stagnant Axon Terminal » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:12 am

Shevardino wrote:
Stagnant Axon Terminal wrote:Female physics and math double major here to remind Shevardino that women throughout the course of their lives are discouraged from participating in hard sciences and excused from being held to high science-related knowledge levels because "aw it's okay, girls don't need to learn math and science."
Societal pressures are what keep women from doing well in science and math and from being interested in them. Men aren't fucking special or more intelligent.

If you read the end of my original post, you'll clearly see that I addressed the issues of societal pressure, and said it needs to change such that women are encouraged to be successful and independent.

"Most women can't make the cut"
Huh.
Wow.
TET's resident state assessment exam
My interests include baking cookies, make-up,
shopping for dresses and high heels, glittery Christmas ornaments,
and dead things.
I scream a lot
Tumblr | Twitter
Nanatsu No Tsuki wrote:the fetus will never eat cake if you abort it

Cu Math wrote:Axon is like a bear with a PH.D. She debates at first, then eats your face.
The Empire of Pretantia wrote:THE MAN'S PENIS HAS LEFT THE VAGINA. IT'S THE UTERUS'S TURN TO SHINE.

User avatar
Tubbsalot
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9196
Founded: Oct 17, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Tubbsalot » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:14 am

Shevardino wrote:How have I embarrassed myself?

You informed us that women are, essentially, intellectually inferior because some of them drop out of STEM fields.

If you can't tell why you should be embarrassed, there's nothing I can do for you.

Shevardino wrote:All you did was provide an anecdote to say I'm wrong. Majority of people in STEM fields are men. It's true, and it's what I said. Sure I provided an anecdote, but it DOES correspond to the average trend across the nation.

There are many STEM fields in which men are outnumbered by women - sometimes overwhelmingly. And you have yet to prove that this is a "trend," since the only evidence you've presented is your anecdote, which is absolutely worthless as evidence. A fact I would have hoped you'd pick up on, when you figured out why you didn't accept my own anecdote as evidence.

Additionally, if you care about money, STEM fields should be the last place you look at. If you want women to be breadwinners, leaving STEM is the best choice they could make, particularly in America. (Or leaving SM, at any rate; god knows why the T is in there.)
Last edited by Tubbsalot on Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:19 am, edited 2 times in total.
"Twats love flags." - Yootopia

User avatar
Shevardino
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 14
Founded: Oct 14, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Shevardino » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:17 am

Stagnant Axon Terminal wrote:
Shevardino wrote:If you read the end of my original post, you'll clearly see that I addressed the issues of societal pressure, and said it needs to change such that women are encouraged to be successful and independent.

"Most women can't make the cut"
Huh.
Wow.

Yes, most women can't make the cut. Societal pressure pushes them into backing out, and tells them they should work with people rather than numbers. Expectations for them to make it in STEM fields are low, and they are encouraged to the classic "women should be secretaries, teachers and waitresses." No where did I claim that inability stemmed from biology, it stems from current norms in society. Which again, I have said multiple times, need to be changed.

User avatar
The Confederacy of Nationalism
Minister
 
Posts: 2334
Founded: Sep 05, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Confederacy of Nationalism » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:20 am

Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:
The Confederacy of Nationalism wrote:human-exceptionalism isn't going to help you here. Mammals have gender roles, birds do too. They're more pronounced and necessary for survival, just as ours once were. Yes, there are socially constructed gender roles, but the desire to form such roles in the first place is a biological holdover from when we needed them. In any case, I've got to get some sleep, so, night mate.

Which part of animals don't have genders and humans don't act anywhere near purely based on instinct, or in degrees where it is socially significant, because evolution has done away with it, you didn't conveniently ignore?

Every human has a unique psyche and neurological wiring. You aren't helping your case.

I know every individual is unique, but as I have said before, generalizations work on the scale of billions. Also yes, people do have socially significant instincts, our instinctual desire to be social is an instinct itself, who'd have thought. Alright, now I'm off to sleep.
Last edited by The Confederacy of Nationalism on Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
Keep right -->
Don't give in to degeneracy,

My honor, my dignity, my pride above my life. No regrets.
American Ultranationalist
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" - Voltaire / "If you want to shine like the sun, first you have to burn like it!" - Adolf Hitler
Resident Social Darwinist

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bienenhalde, Chan Island, Corrian, Dumb Ideologies, Ecradia, Estanglia, Fahran, Greater vakolicci haven, Heloin, Kubra, Lord Dominator, Major-Tom, New Legland, Salandriagado, Telconi, The Greater Ohio Valley, Tombradyonia, United Muscovite Nations

Advertisement

Remove ads