Criticisms of Feminism

[Occupied Deutschland]

That's nice and all, except feminism is a social push and an academic study.... the social push is what the average person is going to view as "feminism". What you are doing is engaging in a n0 true scottsman fallacy. The simple fact is these radicals are in fact disseminating information advertized as feminism to the public and taking funding from it. They are in all social perception FEMINISTS and what they do gets classed under that moniker because that is how the real world outside of academic social science actually works.

I think there's just only a thing that really differentiate us radical feminists from liberal and mainstream feminists: some of us have more courage to stand up on our positions.
I'm proud of anti-manspreading campaigns, and these campaigns were supported by mainstream feminists, even more than us, I even linked Jezebel and Feministing articles about it.
I have not even an hint why now, after a successfull campaign (at least in USA, in my country, sadly, it was a fail), some people are retreating instead to be proud.

People tend not to be proud of stupidity, even if done in their name or the name of a cause they support.
Such as anti-'manspreading' campaigns.

[Lyrian Oligarchic Royal Empire]

I think there's just only a thing that really differentiate us radical feminists from liberal and mainstream feminists: some of us have more courage to stand up on our positions.
I'm proud of anti-manspreading campaigns, and these campaigns were supported by mainstream feminists, even more than us, I even linked Jezebel and Feministing articles about it.
I have not even an hint why now, after a successfull campaign (at least in USA, in my country, sadly, it was a fail), some people are retreating instead to be proud.

People tend not to be proud of stupidity, even if done in their name or the name of a cause they support.
Such as anti-'manspreading' campaigns.

Because, of course, no woman ever takes up more than one space on public transit.

We must call it "manspreading" and vilify it for the Proletariat.

[Kvatchdom]

That's nice and all, except feminism is a social push and an academic study.... the social push is what the average person is going to view as "feminism". What you are doing is engaging in a n0 true scottsman fallacy. The simple fact is these radicals are in fact disseminating information advertized as feminism to the public and taking funding from it. They are in all social perception FEMINISTS and what they do gets classed under that moniker because that is how the real world outside of academic social science actually works.

I think there's just only a thing that really differentiate us radical feminists from liberal and mainstream feminists: some of us have more courage to stand up on our positions.
I'm proud of anti-manspreading campaigns, and these campaigns were supported by mainstream feminists, even more than us, I even linked Jezebel and Feministing articles about it.
I have not even an hint why now, after a successfull campaign (at least in USA, in my country, sadly, it was a fail), some people are retreating instead to be proud.

I have often not found a seat in a train due to people, mostly women, placing their bags on seats. Men spreading their legs has never been, and will never be an issue.

[Chessmistress]

I have often not found a seat in a train due to people, mostly women, placing their bags on seats. Men spreading their legs has never been, and will never be an issue.

I never saw a woman with so much baggage.
I took photos of males spreading their legs during the campaign, and there where even some males lying occupying up to THREE seats on public transport.
It is worth noting that the vast majority of men are educated and do NOT these things, from my experience I can say that those who practice the manspreading definitely are not more than 10%, maybe just the 5%.
The saddest part is that I noticed that such thing was performed equally by both young men and the elderly ones, and it is precisely for this reason that I think an intervention was absolutely necessary: that habits seem to not change through generations.

[Kvatchdom]

I have often not found a seat in a train due to people, mostly women, placing their bags on seats. Men spreading their legs has never been, and will never be an issue.

I never saw a woman with so much baggage.
I took photos of males spreading their legs during the campaign, and there where even some males lying occupying up to THREE seats on public transport.
It is worth noting that the vast majority of men are educated and NOT do these things, from my experience I can say that those who practice the manspreading definitely are not more than 10%, maybe just the 5%.
The sad thing is that such thing is performed equallly by both young men and the elderly one, and it is precisely for this reason that I think an intervention was absolutely necessary: that habits seem to not change through generations.

One bag easily takes up a seat.
Those men must have had pretty goddamn long legs .

[Lyrian Oligarchic Royal Empire]

I have often not found a seat in a train due to people, mostly women, placing their bags on seats. Men spreading their legs has never been, and will never be an issue.

I never saw a woman with so much baggage.
I took photos of males spreading their legs during the campaign, and there where even some males lying occupying up to THREE seats on public transport.
It is worth noting that the vast majority of men are educated and do NOT these things, from my experience I can say that those who practice the manspreading definitely are not more than 10%, maybe just the 5%.
The saddest part is that I noticed that such thing was performed equally by both young men and the elderly ones, and it is precisely for this reason that I think an intervention was absolutely necessary: that habits seem to not change through generations.

You heard it here first folks, one person's experiences are universal truths!

[Chessmistress]

One bag easily takes up a seat.
Those men must have had pretty goddamn long legs .

I wrote "lying": the ones who taked up to three seats were lying.
Typical manspreading doesn't take two seats, it takes something like the space of 1.2-1.3 seats: it's rude, unpolite, I think it's a sign of a bad attitude that need to be addressed, but manspreding is nothing when compared to males lying and taking up to three seats.

[Kvatchdom]

One bag easily takes up a seat.
Those men must have had pretty goddamn long legs .

I wrote "lying": the ones who taked up to three seats were lying.
Typical manspreading doesn't take two seats, it takes something like the space of 1.2-1.3 seats: it's rude, unpolite, I think it's a sign of a bad attitude that need to be addressed, but manspreding is nothing when compared to males lying and taking up to three seats.

Women lie on the seats too. I've seen a few sitting on two seats, her back to the window. Man-spreading is not about attitude, it's people trying to be comfortable on a journey for Christ's sake.

[Arach-Naga Combine]

That's nice and all, except feminism is a social push and an academic study.... the social push is what the average person is going to view as "feminism". What you are doing is engaging in a n0 true scottsman fallacy. The simple fact is these radicals are in fact disseminating information advertized as feminism to the public and taking funding from it. They are in all social perception FEMINISTS and what they do gets classed under that moniker because that is how the real world outside of academic social science actually works.

I think there's just only a thing that really differentiate us radical feminists from liberal and mainstream feminists: some of us have more courage to stand up on our positions.
I'm proud of anti-manspreading campaigns, and these campaigns were supported by mainstream feminists, even more than us, I even linked Jezebel and Feministing articles about it.
I have not even an hint why now, after a successfull campaign (at least in USA, in my country, sadly, it was a fail), some people are retreating instead to be proud.

You've missed another important difference: there are feminists that actually want equality.

[Herskerstad]

One bag easily takes up a seat.
Those men must have had pretty goddamn long legs .

I wrote "lying": the ones who taked up to three seats were lying.
Typical manspreading doesn't take two seats, it takes something like the space of 1.2-1.3 seats: it's rude, unpolite, I think it's a sign of a bad attitude that need to be addressed, but manspreding is nothing when compared to males lying and taking up to three seats.

Looking away from sleeping on seats, which is I can assure you not an issue which is limited to one sex, what you define as 'manspreading' generally has something with a thing called 'anatomy' to do. I've also seen people of both sexes stretch their legs and I really could not care less. I just don't have the time to bother about such things, let alone create terms for it.

[Vanta Island]

I have often not found a seat in a train due to people, mostly women, placing their bags on seats. Men spreading their legs has never been, and will never be an issue.

I never saw a woman with so much baggage.
I took photos of males spreading their legs during the campaign, and there where even some males lying occupying up to THREE seats on public transport.
It is worth noting that the vast majority of men are educated and do NOT these things, from my experience I can say that those who practice the manspreading definitely are not more than 10%, maybe just the 5%.
The saddest part is that I noticed that such thing was performed equally by both young men and the elderly ones, and it is precisely for this reason that I think an intervention was absolutely necessary: that habits seem to not change through generations.

You do realize men have two glands, that are open to outside stimulation, and are very sensitive to heat and pressure? did it ever occur to you that maybe, just maybe that that is possibly a reason other than your so-called "patriarchy", that men do not cross their legs? or are you really that much of an idjit?

[Chessmistress]

Looking away from sleeping on seats, which is I can assure you not an issue which is limited to one sex, what you define as 'manspreading' generally has something with a thing called 'anatomy' to do. I've also seen people of both sexes stretch their legs and I really could not care less. I just don't have the time to bother about such things, let alone create terms for it.

No, I don't think it's about "anatomy", it's about male entitlement of few males.

FEMINISTING - that article was wrote by a MAN
http://feministing.com/2013/12/11/on-sp ... sculinity/

JEZEBEL - that explains even better the entitlement
http://jezebel.com/5967972/fuck-you-dud ... t-that-big

[New Edom]

The main issue I have with feminism as a humanist is that whether we are talking about manspreading, mansplaining or man whatever, it ends up being men doing something and women complaining about it. Often you will see male feminists backing up the women. However you pretty much never have feminists hearing male concerns and saying "Hmm, good point." The common presentation of men disagreeing with feminists is nearly always framed as ignorance or opposition to women's rights.

So again: this is part of why I am a humanist. I am more concerned with general human rights than I am with the notion that only men cause suffering or problems in the world.

[Kvatchdom]

Looking away from sleeping on seats, which is I can assure you not an issue which is limited to one sex, what you define as 'manspreading' generally has something with a thing called 'anatomy' to do. I've also seen people of both sexes stretch their legs and I really could not care less. I just don't have the time to bother about such things, let alone create terms for it.

No, I don't think it's about "anatomy", it's about male entitlement of few males.

FEMINISTING - that article was wrote by a MAN
http://feministing.com/2013/12/11/on-sp ... sculinity/

JEZEBEL - that explains even better the entitlement
http://jezebel.com/5967972/fuck-you-dud ... t-that-big

These are not trustworthy sources as they are from biased sites, sorry.

[Ashkera]

Chessmistress, I woulf greatly if you and your anti-"manspreading" friends would quit "femmesplaining" male motivations, anatomy, and life experiences to men.

The reason so many men find the idea that "manspreading" is some sort of dominance behavior absurd is because, being men, they know from their own experiences that is absurd.

Quite frankly, since your movement invented the whole "lived experience" thing, it's extremely hypocritical and disrespectful to so selectively apply it by refusing to acknowledge others' lived experiences.

[Farnhamia]

I never saw a woman with so much baggage.
I took photos of males spreading their legs during the campaign, and there where even some males lying occupying up to THREE seats on public transport.
It is worth noting that the vast majority of men are educated and do NOT these things, from my experience I can say that those who practice the manspreading definitely are not more than 10%, maybe just the 5%.
The saddest part is that I noticed that such thing was performed equally by both young men and the elderly ones, and it is precisely for this reason that I think an intervention was absolutely necessary: that habits seem to not change through generations.

You do realize men have two glands, that are open to outside stimulation, and are very sensitive to heat and pressure? did it ever occur to you that maybe, just maybe that that is possibly a reason other than your so-called "patriarchy", that men do not cross their legs? or are you really that much of an idjit?

This is flaming. Since you're new, I'm letting you off with a word to the wise: do not make this sort of posting a habit.

[Chessmistress]

These are not trustworthy sources as they are from biased sites, sorry.

These are not unworthy sites, these are the two major feminist sites of USA and maybe even of the world.
Anti-manspreading was a feminist struggle (although a minor struggle), what did you expect?

[Chessmistress]

Chessmistress, I woulf greatly if you and your anti-"manspreading" friends would quit "femmesplaining" male motivations, anatomy, and life experiences to men.

The reason so many men find the idea that "manspreading" is some sort of dominance behavior absurd is because, being men, they know from their own experiences that is absurd.

Quite frankly, since your movement invented the whole "lived experience" thing, it's extremely hypocritical and disrespectful to so selectively apply it by refusing to acknowledge others' lived experiences.

That's why we have male allies
Because being men, they know from their own experiences the truth: indeed the article of feministing I linked is wrote by a MAN.

[Fanosolia]

Well, true. I'm just saying those with critique about this sort of thing need to show there's a market for it. Its all a numbers game and those games maybe become trendy and grow medium if they were made and become popular. Other games won't go away (for the whims of the team are still in their court) but everything should have a chance in the market.

Yes, I'd say you're fairly right. Games that are less sexualized and portray women in more realistic ways can sell, you just need to put the effort in. To be perfectly honest, before the whole gamergate thing, I would have loved to play a game like that, but taking an issue about gaming journalist ethics and trying to make it out to be "sexism" kind of killed the appeal for me. Maybe one day someone can fix that though. But I don't disagree, I'd like to see something like that on the market.

Well that's all we hope for isn't it? effort. So long as it's good I'll play it. Hell I think there's a few peoples using hashtags like #boobsoverblood, since some have a problem with a double standard. Especally with hatred being a thing.

Honestly, I don't take gamergate seriously. I don't mean horrible things haven't happened surrounding it, and it doesn't have important issues linked to it. But my god! I've never seen such a mess of of a movement of my life on both sides, and I've only seen it on small doses on this site and moviebob.

It's to never associate with that "movement". Not as a gamer, not as a consumer, not a journalist, and not as a feminist. Not Pro nor anti, I don't even know what the hell means! It's the most toxic thing I've seen that relates to my favorite past time.

[Kvatchdom]

These are not trustworthy sources as they are from biased sites, sorry.

These are not unworthy sites, these are the two major feminist sites of USA and maybe even of the world.
Anti-manspreading was a feminist struggle (although a minor struggle), what did you expect?

They have been criticized for over-zealous Feminism several times. I would not trust a white supremacist site either, thus I will not trust a one-sided feminist site.

[Vanta Island]

This is flaming. Since you're new, I'm letting you off with a word to the wise: do not make this sort of posting a habit.

Perhaps I could have explained it in a less "aggressive" way, but my point still stands nonetheless.
Granted, I understand that she doesn't have male genitalia (assuming they're female, and based on her lack of knowledge of the male anatomy I would say this is a fair assumption) and is therefore unaware of how it feels to cross your legs and attempt (and likely fail) to avoid squishing your testicles, but still. google is your friend, chessmistress.

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

Perhaps I could have explained it in a less "aggressive" way, but my point still stands nonetheless.

In case you didn't catch it, it was the namecalling that put you over the line.

[Glorious KASSRD]

These are not trustworthy sources as they are from biased sites, sorry.

These are not unworthy sites, these are the two major feminist sites of USA and maybe even of the world.
Anti-manspreading was a feminist struggle (although a minor struggle), what did you expect?

They are biased sites, because they are created for the purpose of spreading feminism without considering any other positions.

[Vanta Island]

Perhaps I could have explained it in a less "aggressive" way, but my point still stands nonetheless.

In case you didn't catch it, it was the namecalling that put you over the line.

I figured as much.

[Ashkera]

That's why we have male allies
Because being men, they know from their own experiences the truth: indeed the article of feministing I linked is wrote by a MAN.

One, he doesn't speak for all men, as feminists are so eager to tell us when a woman disagrees with them. I'm not at all lying whatsoever when I say sitting with my legs apart is more comfortable, which is why I also do so at home when there's no one around to see for "dominance"...

Two, allow me to pull a page from the internet feminist playbook that's also deployed against disagreeing women - by posting on such a feminist site like that, it's clearly a sign that he's suffering from internalized misandry and merely repeating female opinions. After all, if he weren't, then he would've been kicked out of the site.