America Becoming Less Christian, Survey Shows

[Republic of the Cristo]

Actually, Science is not the reason why more and more people are loosing faith. have you ever had a talk with your run of the mill Agnostic or atheist or what ever? They all say the don't believe in God, but for really no reason other than it is hard to live up to that standard.

LOL! Or maybe it's because there is zero evidence for anything supernatural, huh? Yeah, that might be it.

No, I am dead serious. Talk with your average atheist. Their lack of belief will usually be because of not wanting to live like us. Nothing to do with any contrary evidence.

Most aren't going to say " Oh well, I find that with the scientific evidence of evolution, and the fact that we have generally well backed theories regarding how the big bang occurred..." No, this is not a common response.

Yes it is. There's evidence for evolution and none for god. Therefore, no reason to believe in a god.

I was mimicking a well thought out comment and reasoning, not saying otherwise.

Most will say " Why should I? What has he done for me?" Or something of the variant.

Sure, because no god has ever done shit for us because one doesn't exist.

Millions of people would disagree, with their own personal experiences saying contrary

Just to throw this out there, I am a theocratic fundamentalist. LET THE HATE ROLL IN!

Yeah, people with bigoted, oppressive, and intolerant ideologies usually get that.

Really? I am a bigot, am oppressive, and am intolerant towards ideologies because I believe that people should vote with their convictions in mind, and should act knowing that what they do in this life will be judged in the next? Funny, if one were to actually think about it, that might make things a lot better.

[Talvezout]

Apparently, most of these losses are coming from mainline Protestant churches. Those churches also happen to be the ones that are pushing for marriage equality, fighting social injustice, and seeking to live out Christ's radical love in a broken world. They are, in short, Christian.

If Americans look at those churches, and decide that they would prefer either the company of fundamentalists or a life devoid of religious experience, then the problem isn't with Christianity - it's with America. And if it's the mainline churches that are collapsing while evangelicals and atheists thrive, then the reality is that we ceased to be a Christian country a long time ago.

If there was a part that I would be worried about most, it would be this. The more people the mainstream/liberal denominations lose the more it would contribute to American Christianity's decline.

[Nierra]

Verifiable evidence =/= open minded, in fact that's the opposite.

Open minded =/= believing whatever someone tells you.

It suggests your judgement is limited to being based off of objective scientific value which is to say not very open minded at all.

Empiricism? Rationality?

Science is actually a very close minded field of study to begin with, it must be.

wat

Moral values cannot be pinned down to any verifiable or objective evidence...

Yes they can. Basic human empathy. Does it hurt someone else? Don't do it. You use logic. Would I want someone to do this to me?

...and religion falls into an framework that believes itself capable of pinning down these moral values through the usage of scripture.

I could write "scripture" that said drowning babies will send us to heaven after we die. Does that make it valid?

...It has nothing to do with simply worshiping a fairy tale for the sake of it...

That's exactly what it fucking is.

...and to trivialize it as such shows your close mindedness.

No; only an irrational, illogical, and close minded person would choose to believe in one out of thousands of gods in the world, all which have the same validity.

No, and one doesn't have to be religious to acknowledge some value that can be derived from religion. Open minded people can acknowledge religion and it's merits/drawbacks, close minded people simply bash it without considering any social value at all.

Not all decisions can be pinned to human interaction with other people and there are multitudes of scenarios where no matter what there will be winners/losers where you would then have to fall back on your moral realities which are different for everyone else, this is why political philosophies exist in the first place to deny this is insane.

Agin, not believing/agreeing with a religion =/= close minded, especially if the belief is convoluted and bad in a way most people would agree with. However this isn't the case with many religions and theres a difference between not agreeing and bashing.

Science is by definition close minded, it's explaining the natural world in objective and unchangeable ways. That's is incredibly close minded, again being close minded isn't always a bad thing but science isn't a philosophy or a form of belief. It's just empirical objectivism.

Lots of people would disagree with that, and argue that the validity of a God relies on the content that it influences/dictates that hits closer to home with the populace. So, no they do not all have the same validity and to think that without a doubt is fairly close minded.

[Ajax Prime]

Actually, Science is not the reason why more and more people are loosing faith. have you ever had a talk with your run of the mill Agnostic or atheist or what ever? They all say the don't believe in God, but for really no reason other than it is hard to live up to that standard.

LOL! Or maybe it's because there is zero evidence for anything supernatural, huh? Yeah, that might be it.

Most aren't going to say " Oh well, I find that with the scientific evidence of evolution, and the fact that we have generally well backed theories regarding how the big bang occurred..." No, this is not a common response.

Yes it is. There's evidence for evolution and none for god. Therefore, no reason to believe in a god.

Most will say " Why should I? What has he done for me?" Or something of the variant.

Sure, because no god has ever done shit for us because one doesn't exist.

Just to throw this out there, I am a theocratic fundamentalist. LET THE HATE ROLL IN!

Yeah, people with bigoted, oppressive, and intolerant ideologies usually get that.

Every response here is why I don't like Christians, Athiests, or any other group of people you can think of. Instead of being so straightforward and coming off as an ass (I really don't mean any offense), why not try to reason or just don't say anything? This is the problem I have with my grandmother as well. We are of the same faith but I refuse to discuss it with her because she is so condescending to me for not believing every little scrap of the Bible. I typically try to avoid talk of religion in public because of the blunt people who waste no time trying to thrust their opinion on others simply for saying "I believe in God" or what have you. Reason and understanding will convert people, not just flat out judging them and what they believe.

[Republic of the Cristo]

My belief in a higher being is the problem?

Yes. The irrational belief in the supernatural/diefic/otherworldly is inherently a problem.

How? If one thinks about it, a higher being is inevitable. Our very existence is proof of that, due to the law of cause and effect.
Also, if everyone acted in knowing that they would be judged for what they do in the next life, do you think this world would be all that bad?

[Prussia-Steinbach]

No, I am dead serious. Talk with your average atheist. Their lack of belief will usually be because of not wanting to live like us. Nothing to do with any contrary evidence.

I'm an atheist and that's not at all why I don't believe in a god. It's because there's no evidence for one. There is no reason whatsoever to believe in a god other than "I feel like it's true."

Millions of people would disagree, with their own personal experiences saying contrary

A bunch of uneducated people with unsubstantiated claims. Give me a source for a miracle.

Really? I am a bigot, am oppressive, and am intolerant towards ideologies because I believe that people should vote with their convictions in mind, and should act knowing that what they do in this life will be judged in the next? Funny, if one were to actually think about it, that might make things a lot better.

You're bigoted, oppressive, and intolerant by definition as a self-proclaimed theocrat.

There is no life after this one.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

Yes. The irrational belief in the supernatural/diefic/otherworldly is inherently a problem.

How? If one thinks about it, a higher being is inevitable. Our very existence is proof of that, due to the law of cause and effect.
Also, if everyone acted in knowing that they would be judged for what they do in the next life, do you think this world would be all that bad?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang

And who is going to enforce that? Your Holy Christian Crusader Police Force, rolling around chopping the heads off adulterers and teh ebul gays?

[Nierra]

"Them", "they"? Since when am I more than one person? Nor is atheism "leftist" (or rightist), what with it not being an economic ideology (or an ideology at all for that matter).
Additionally, I'm quite open-minded. Present me with verifiable evidence is all I ask, and since no religion can manage that I've no use for it.

I am an atheist so that means I am a leftist?

Yes, because leftism relates to either the reforming of social hierarchy or the abolition of it. Atheism calls for abolition of a religious hierarchy be removing religion so it is fundamentally left wing. You can be right wing and have left wing viewpoints, and your willingness to outright declare yourself intellectually superior by way of emoticon is fairly ridiculous.

[Norstal]

So you think a country has to be religious to be stable?

That would not be a correct reading of what I said.

I suppose what I meant to say is that a nation must have a strong ethical foundation to remain virtuous; naturally admitting that virtuous is itself a ethical question; but a nation must be able to maintain it's own sense of virtue and strive towards it.

I do not believe an irreligious nation will descend into a hellish wasteland for mere lack of going to church on Sundays. The issue is that secular humanism I believe lacks the proper foundations, or perhaps better said lacks a convincing drive to virtue. What I mean to say is that Western Society is increasingly destroying our local sense of community, and while we are also gaining increasing global consciousness and tolerance, that our tolerance and global consciousness is not well-grounded. We are dawning on an age of relativism, but whereas now we say "I'm an atheist, your a Christian, he's a Muslim let's just be tolerant of each other's ideas." relativistic ethics is very silent on what to do when everyone or almost everyone is going to be born into a non-dogmatic ethical system.

To sort of streamline my point, we are reaching a point where people will not actually know the answer to "What would Jesus do?" and it's not that no one believes in Jesus that's the problem, it's that no one believes in anything that is.

That sense of community does seem to be deteriorating. The lack of trust in other people seems to be growing as the idea of "fuck you, got mine" grows.

But I can guarantee you that this doesn't come from secularism or atheism. It comes from libertarianism. The believe that individual liberty trumps everything else, including the community's welfare. Even if everyone is Christian, you're not going to get that sense of community if individual freedom is considered the greatest above all else.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

Every response here is why I don't like Christians, Athiests, or any other group of people you can think of. Instead of being so straightforward and coming off as an ass (I really don't mean any offense), why not try to reason or just don't say anything? This is the problem I have with my grandmother as well. We are of the same faith but I refuse to discuss it with her because she is so condescending to me for not believing every little scrap of the Bible. I typically try to avoid talk of religion in public because of the blunt people who waste no time trying to thrust their opinion on others simply for saying "I believe in God" or what have you. Reason and understanding will convert people, not just flat out judging them and what they believe.

I refuse to let someone be comfortable in beliefs that have caused so much fucking harm to the world.

[The Merchant Republics]

I'll start with the fact I am a Christian.

With science having such hard evidence that non-believers throw in our faces and all we can come back with is "Well the bible says you're going to Hell for that" I could see why Christianity is losing members. Not to mention how militant some Christians get toward anything not Christian. My grandma for instance, who I love to death, yelled at me for believing the Earth is billions of years old, not 6,000 as the Bible hints. I mean, humanity is older than the Earth by her crazy ass facts. What keeps me holding on to my faith is the belief that when I die I will wind up somewhere nice. Do I believe the big bang? Yes, it's hard not to. Do I believe in Noah's ark? No. It sounds like a fairy tale to me. Will I raise my child to believe in God? I'm not sure. At this point, I believe in God but almost no other part of Christianity. I think any religion is just a set of morals to live by to make the world a better place, but most Christians I know only believe that if it doesn't involve any other ideology. "Do unto others as you would wish others do unto you... unless they are non-believers" <--- That is what most of the Christians I know go by, even if they wont admit it.

Long story short, I'm not surprised and I'm not upset. Christianity needs to cope with the times, much like the Republican party (of which I am a member). The times they are a changin'.

Actually, Science is not the reason why more and more people are loosing faith. have you ever had a talk with your run of the mill Agnostic or atheist or what ever? They all say the don't believe in God, but for really no reason other than it is hard to live up to that standard. Most aren't going to say " Oh well, I find that with the scientific evidence of evolution, and the fact that we have generally well backed theories regarding how the big bang occurred..." No, this is not a common response. Most will say " Why should I? What has he done for me?" Or something of the variant. Also, just because some on is a YEC, doesn't mean their a crazy fundie. Most Christians do believe this.

Just to throw this out there, I am a theocratic fundamentalist. LET THE HATE ROLL IN!

To be perfectly honest, you're right in a very real way.

And it gets to the meat of my worry about the Post-Christian world. I'm not worried about the people like us, and by us I mean the people that will come to a discussion like this on NSG. We're the sort of people who seek ethical justification and to prove our points against one another, on here whether we collaborate or not, we come armed with meaningful concepts in our head. Yet to the layman who finds a discussion like this either too boring or daunting to parse through, there is a lot to be concerned what they will do in a poly-centric moral society.

Going back to my response to your post, I must say I have found that is especially true, very few of my atheist or agnostic friends arrived at their positions by careful deliberation of evidence, it mostly came about as apathy or distaste. It's anecdotal, but I wonder what a meaningful study on the rise of the irreligious would show.

God takes increasingly, a back stage in the minds of anyone not actively devoted to thinking about Him, either on the theist or atheist camp. I would argue that is a symptom of the declining importance we give to tradition, family and community.It's a statement of the obvious to say that you won't find many irreligious people go through the bother of attending church except when they are made to by others, and increasingly they aren't being made to; there is much less pressure now as ever. Apathy traditionally landed a person on the side of believing in God, it has no switched over dramatically, apathy lends itself to disbelief.

It is much easier to say "I'll wait and see what's on the other side" or to say "I haven't given it much thought, so I guess I'm agnostic", even easy to lend to wishy-washy concept of "I sort of believe in a universal spirit" without actually given a thought or purpose to that statement, than it is to say definitively "God exists" or "God does not exist." Even much of the time the claim of "I'll believe it when I have evidence" stands on the same ground as those who say "Believing in God makes me happy", it boils down to apathy time and time again.

[Ajax Prime]

Every response here is why I don't like Christians, Athiests, or any other group of people you can think of. Instead of being so straightforward and coming off as an ass (I really don't mean any offense), why not try to reason or just don't say anything? This is the problem I have with my grandmother as well. We are of the same faith but I refuse to discuss it with her because she is so condescending to me for not believing every little scrap of the Bible. I typically try to avoid talk of religion in public because of the blunt people who waste no time trying to thrust their opinion on others simply for saying "I believe in God" or what have you. Reason and understanding will convert people, not just flat out judging them and what they believe.

I refuse to let someone be comfortable in beliefs that have caused so much fucking harm to the world.

Then target people that self identify as Nazis. Or give reasons that one should not be religious, I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just telling you I think you're going about it the wrong way. I don't mean to offend you or hurt what you believe (or don't believe, I guess), I'm just saying you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

[Imperial Esplanade]

LOL! Or maybe it's because there is zero evidence for anything supernatural, huh? Yeah, that might be it.

Yes it is. There's evidence for evolution and none for god. Therefore, no reason to believe in a god.

Sure, because no god has ever done shit for us because one doesn't exist.

Yeah, people with bigoted, oppressive, and intolerant ideologies usually get that.

Every response here is why I don't like Christians, Athiests, or any other group of people you can think of. Instead of being so straightforward and coming off as an ass (I really don't mean any offense), why not try to reason or just don't say anything? This is the problem I have with my grandmother as well. We are of the same faith but I refuse to discuss it with her because she is so condescending to me for not believing every little scrap of the Bible. I typically try to avoid talk of religion in public because of the blunt people who waste no time trying to thrust their opinion on others simply for saying "I believe in God" or what have you. Reason and understanding will convert people, not just flat out judging them and what they believe.

Trust me, I'm a Catholic and I've experienced my fair share of Bible-thumping from those around me toward non-believers and vice-versa. I completely agree with you, and one thing I've noticed is that most Christians nowadays are FAR more reasonable and calmer these days than what the media portrays them as. CNN would have you believe most Christians would burn LGBT's at the stake if they could get away with slander, except that is far from the truth.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

I refuse to let someone be comfortable in beliefs that have caused so much fucking harm to the world.

1. Then target people that self identify as Nazis. 2. Or give reasons that one should not be religious, 3. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just telling you I think you're going about it the wrong way. I don't mean to offend you or hurt what you believe (or don't believe, I guess), I'm just saying 4. you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

1. I do?

2. I have?

3. I think lacking a single shred of evidence for something is a decent reason to not believe it exists...

4. Like I said, no interest in letting people be comfortable in bigoted and oppressive beliefs.

[Nierra]

That would not be a correct reading of what I said.

I suppose what I meant to say is that a nation must have a strong ethical foundation to remain virtuous; naturally admitting that virtuous is itself a ethical question; but a nation must be able to maintain it's own sense of virtue and strive towards it.

I do not believe an irreligious nation will descend into a hellish wasteland for mere lack of going to church on Sundays. The issue is that secular humanism I believe lacks the proper foundations, or perhaps better said lacks a convincing drive to virtue. What I mean to say is that Western Society is increasingly destroying our local sense of community, and while we are also gaining increasing global consciousness and tolerance, that our tolerance and global consciousness is not well-grounded. We are dawning on an age of relativism, but whereas now we say "I'm an atheist, your a Christian, he's a Muslim let's just be tolerant of each other's ideas." relativistic ethics is very silent on what to do when everyone or almost everyone is going to be born into a non-dogmatic ethical system.

To sort of streamline my point, we are reaching a point where people will not actually know the answer to "What would Jesus do?" and it's not that no one believes in Jesus that's the problem, it's that no one believes in anything that is.

That sense of community does seem to be deteriorating. The lack of trust in other people seems to be growing as the idea of "fuck you, got mine" grows.

But I can guarantee you that this doesn't come from secularism or atheism. It comes from libertarianism. The believe that individual liberty trumps everything else, including the community's welfare. Even if everyone is Christian, you're not going to get that sense of community if individual freedom is considered the greatest above all else.

That is the most biased and ridiculous sentiment ever, which I would in turn argue is the fault of society. Where people instead of logically and passionately collaborating and debating come instead with a "My way or the highway" attitude and get absolutely nothing constructive at all. Maybe if you were to take in the political philosophy of ethical egoism and stop deeming these people as amoral abominations you would actually be able to contribute something.

[Imperial Esplanade]

Every response here is why I don't like Christians, Athiests, or any other group of people you can think of. Instead of being so straightforward and coming off as an ass (I really don't mean any offense), why not try to reason or just don't say anything? This is the problem I have with my grandmother as well. We are of the same faith but I refuse to discuss it with her because she is so condescending to me for not believing every little scrap of the Bible. I typically try to avoid talk of religion in public because of the blunt people who waste no time trying to thrust their opinion on others simply for saying "I believe in God" or what have you. Reason and understanding will convert people, not just flat out judging them and what they believe.

I refuse to let someone be comfortable in beliefs that have caused so much fucking harm to the world.

Human beings are greedy, selfish, and violent. *Cue Anarchy*

Religion has done far more positive than negative in the world. Religion is just another reason some humans use to kill one another, but it isn't even remotely a major reason.

[Ajax Prime]

Every response here is why I don't like Christians, Athiests, or any other group of people you can think of. Instead of being so straightforward and coming off as an ass (I really don't mean any offense), why not try to reason or just don't say anything? This is the problem I have with my grandmother as well. We are of the same faith but I refuse to discuss it with her because she is so condescending to me for not believing every little scrap of the Bible. I typically try to avoid talk of religion in public because of the blunt people who waste no time trying to thrust their opinion on others simply for saying "I believe in God" or what have you. Reason and understanding will convert people, not just flat out judging them and what they believe.

Trust me, I'm a Catholic and I've experienced my fair share of Bible-thumping from those around me toward non-believers and vice-versa. I completely agree with you, and one thing I've noticed is that most Christians nowadays are FAR more reasonable and calmer these days than what the media portrays them as. CNN would have you believe most Christians would burn LGBT's at the stake if they could get away with slander, except that is far from the truth.

Here in South-Central MO every other Christian you meet is that bible-thumping stereotype. I'm afraid to let my family know that I support LGBT rights (which is a fairly new policy for me) simply because of the hatred I'm going to receive from my own fucking blood. I just stay quiet and let them do as they want. But I do think as a whole Christianity can be helpful through mission trips, food drives, etc. where they aren't there to promote God rather than do his bidding and help fellow man.

[Republic of the Cristo]

No, I am dead serious. Talk with your average atheist. Their lack of belief will usually be because of not wanting to live like us. Nothing to do with any contrary evidence.

I'm an atheist and that's not at all why I don't believe in a god. It's because there's no evidence for one. There is no reason whatsoever to believe in a god other than "I feel like it's true."

Millions of people would disagree, with their own personal experiences saying contrary

A bunch of uneducated people with unsubstantiated claims. Give me a source for a miracle.

Really? I am a bigot, am oppressive, and am intolerant towards ideologies because I believe that people should vote with their convictions in mind, and should act knowing that what they do in this life will be judged in the next? Funny, if one were to actually think about it, that might make things a lot better.

You're bigoted, oppressive, and intolerant by definition as a self-proclaimed theocrat.

There is no life after this one.

1. Okay, that's you. You are one of the few to have an actual logical reason for non-belief. The majority though, don't have this similar reason in mind
2. The only way for me to do so, would be for you to be there; and be very lucky. You are saying that millions of people whom say they have seen miracles are either all liars or uneducated? Funny, that sounds rather bigoted, close minded, and ignorant. Funny, where I have I heard those words before? You cannot deny the literal MILLIONS of claims about miracles occurring. Some, defiantly, others not really.
3. The definition of a theocrat is: A person believing that religion should hold a high regard in the government structure. Also, how are any of my beliefs any of the things you said?

[Big Jim P]

I am an atheist so that means I am a leftist?

Yes, because leftism relates to either the reforming of social hierarchy or the abolition of it. Atheism calls for abolition of a religious hierarchy be removing religion so it is fundamentally left wing. You can be right wing and have left wing viewpoints, and your willingness to outright declare yourself intellectually superior by way of emoticon is fairly ridiculous.

You don't know me too well, that is obvious. Atheism does NOT call for abolition of religion. In fact, I am both and Atheist and religious as well. If anything I am a right leaning centrist, politically, and I fully support the social hierarchy.

Hmmm...did I miss anything? Oh, yeah, intellectually superiority: Lacking the delusional belief in something for which there is NO evidence means I am superior.

[The Great Warrior Rivers]

Trust me, I'm a Catholic and I've experienced my fair share of Bible-thumping from those around me toward non-believers and vice-versa. I completely agree with you, and one thing I've noticed is that most Christians nowadays are FAR more reasonable and calmer these days than what the media portrays them as. CNN would have you believe most Christians would burn LGBT's at the stake if they could get away with slander, except that is far from the truth.

Here in South-Central MO every other Christian you meet is that bible-thumping stereotype. I'm afraid to let my family know that I support LGBT rights (which is a fairly new policy for me) simply because of the hatred I'm going to receive from my own fucking blood. I just stay quiet and let them do as they want. But I do think as a whole Christianity can be helpful through mission trips, food drives, etc. where they aren't there to promote God rather than do his bidding and help fellow man.

All things people can do on their own without a religious text. The decline of religion in America is a good thing- it means people are finally stepping back and evaluating the facts, challenging tradition.

[Big Jim P]

I'm an atheist and that's not at all why I don't believe in a god. It's because there's no evidence for one. There is no reason whatsoever to believe in a god other than "I feel like it's true."

A bunch of uneducated people with unsubstantiated claims. Give me a source for a miracle.

You're bigoted, oppressive, and intolerant by definition as a self-proclaimed theocrat.

There is no life after this one.

1. Okay, that's you. You are one of the few to have an actual logical reason for non-belief. The majority though, don't have this similar reason in mind
2. The only way for me to do so, would be for you to be there; and be very lucky. You are saying that millions of people whom say they have seen miracles are either all liars or uneducated? Funny, that sounds rather bigoted, close minded, and ignorant. Funny, where I have I heard those words before? You cannot deny the literal MILLIONS of claims about miracles occurring. Some, defiantly, others not really.
3. The definition of a theocrat is: A person believing that religion should hold a high regard in the government structure. Also, how are any of my beliefs any of the things you said?

2: Where is the verifiable evidence of these miracles?

[Prussia-Steinbach]

I refuse to let someone be comfortable in beliefs that have caused so much fucking harm to the world.

Human beings are greedy, selfish, and violent. *Cue Anarchy*

Religion has done far more positive than negative in the world. Religion is just another reason some humans use to kill one another, but it isn't even remotely a major reason.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Ages_ ... ography%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Crusade

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Crusade

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Crusade

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Crusade

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Crusade

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixth_Crusade

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh_Crusade

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighth_Crusade

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninth_Crusade

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenth_Crusade

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_wars_of_religion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/1 ... extremism/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition

That's not even half of the evil and violence religion has brought to the world. Fuck. Off. With. The. Bull. Shit.

[Republic of the Cristo]

Actually, Science is not the reason why more and more people are loosing faith. have you ever had a talk with your run of the mill Agnostic or atheist or what ever? They all say the don't believe in God, but for really no reason other than it is hard to live up to that standard. Most aren't going to say " Oh well, I find that with the scientific evidence of evolution, and the fact that we have generally well backed theories regarding how the big bang occurred..." No, this is not a common response. Most will say " Why should I? What has he done for me?" Or something of the variant. Also, just because some on is a YEC, doesn't mean their a crazy fundie. Most Christians do believe this.

Just to throw this out there, I am a theocratic fundamentalist. LET THE HATE ROLL IN!

To be perfectly honest, you're right in a very real way.

And it gets to the meat of my worry about the Post-Christian world. I'm not worried about the people like us, and by us I mean the people that will come to a discussion like this on NSG. We're the sort of people who seek ethical justification and to prove our points against one another, on here whether we collaborate or not, we come armed with meaningful concepts in our head. Yet to the layman who finds a discussion like this either too boring or daunting to parse through, there is a lot to be concerned what they will do in a poly-centric moral society.

Going back to my response to your post, I must say I have found that is especially true, very few of my atheist or agnostic friends arrived at their positions by careful deliberation of evidence, it mostly came about as apathy or distaste. It's anecdotal, but I wonder what a meaningful study on the rise of the irreligious would show.

God takes increasingly, a back stage in the minds of anyone not actively devoted to thinking about Him, either on the theist or atheist camp. I would argue that is a symptom of the declining importance we give to tradition, family and community.It's a statement of the obvious to say that you won't find many irreligious people go through the bother of attending church except when they are made to by others, and increasingly they aren't being made to; there is much less pressure now as ever. Apathy traditionally landed a person on the side of believing in God, it has no switched over dramatically, apathy lends itself to disbelief.

It is much easier to say "I'll wait and see what's on the other side" or to say "I haven't given it much thought, so I guess I'm agnostic", even easy to lend to wishy-washy concept of "I sort of believe in a universal spirit" without actually given a thought or purpose to that statement, than it is to say definitively "God exists" or "God does not exist." Even much of the time the claim of "I'll believe it when I have evidence" stands on the same ground as those who say "Believing in God makes me happy", it boils down to apathy time and time again.

My friend that was beautiful, and you struck the heart of the matter. We have now recognized the enemy as apathy. We must now formulate a way to battle this lack of interest.

[Neutraligon]

Yes, because leftism relates to either the reforming of social hierarchy or the abolition of it. Atheism calls for abolition of a religious hierarchy be removing religion so it is fundamentally left wing. You can be right wing and have left wing viewpoints, and your willingness to outright declare yourself intellectually superior by way of emoticon is fairly ridiculous.

You don't know me too well, that is obvious. Atheism does NOT call for abolition of religion. In fact, I am both and Atheist and religious as well. If anything I am a right leaning centrist, politically, and I fully support the social hierarchy.

Hmmm...did I miss anything? Oh, yeah, intellectually superiority: Lacking the delusional belief in something for which there is NO evidence means I am superior.

WHo knew that atheism and religion are in many ways unconnected topics.

[Big Jim P]

You don't know me too well, that is obvious. Atheism does NOT call for abolition of religion. In fact, I am both and Atheist and religious as well. If anything I am a right leaning centrist, politically, and I fully support the social hierarchy.

Hmmm...did I miss anything? Oh, yeah, intellectually superiority: Lacking the delusional belief in something for which there is NO evidence means I am superior.

WHo knew that atheism and religion are in many ways unconnected topics.

Well, I did for one.