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America Becoming Less Christian, Survey Shows

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America Becoming Less Christian: Good or Bad?

Good
82
20%
Bad
39
9%
Great
85
20%
Horrible
30
7%
We're All Doomed
24
6%
We're All Saved
47
11%
Don't Care
110
26%
 
Total votes : 417

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Scomagia
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Founded: Apr 14, 2009
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Postby Scomagia » Tue May 12, 2015 6:32 pm

The Merchant Republics wrote:An unsurprising result, it is hardly surprising that there is a declining interest in religion and declining relevance to it in our society, it has been a common theme of society for decades.

As a Christian, this is of course unhappy news; I hate to think of the many people living the faith either out of disinterest or as often is the case being driven away by bad theology, but there is an element that much of the "Christians" we are losing are those that never really counted themselves as such, people who only believed because it was what they were brought up in and so they felt it necessary to call themselves such.

As atheism becomes more publicly recognized and publicly accepted we will of course see more people that tread the line of Christianity out of social pressure leaving. This is not a bad thing. Culture Christians who practice Christian ethics without fostering a genuine relationship with God are not really meaningfully deserving of the title Christian, and if they would prefer the moniker humanist or atheist, I can hardly see a reason to not let them go.

I worry about what will happen in the generations after Christendom, for now we still loom in it's shadows and almost all of us were if not raised on them, remain highly exposed to them. In the growth of modern humanism I to quote the good book, I have a fear that these ethics are a house built on sand. That won't stand the test of meaningful challenge, and that what will come as the foundations crumble beneath it especially as it amounts to the atomization of the community will be a much crueller world.

Ethical systems don't need to be based on religion to be solid. Philosophy has provided us with more than a few such solid systems.
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Dyakovo
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Postby Dyakovo » Tue May 12, 2015 6:37 pm

Scomagia wrote:
The Merchant Republics wrote:An unsurprising result, it is hardly surprising that there is a declining interest in religion and declining relevance to it in our society, it has been a common theme of society for decades.

As a Christian, this is of course unhappy news; I hate to think of the many people living the faith either out of disinterest or as often is the case being driven away by bad theology, but there is an element that much of the "Christians" we are losing are those that never really counted themselves as such, people who only believed because it was what they were brought up in and so they felt it necessary to call themselves such.

As atheism becomes more publicly recognized and publicly accepted we will of course see more people that tread the line of Christianity out of social pressure leaving. This is not a bad thing. Culture Christians who practice Christian ethics without fostering a genuine relationship with God are not really meaningfully deserving of the title Christian, and if they would prefer the moniker humanist or atheist, I can hardly see a reason to not let them go.

I worry about what will happen in the generations after Christendom, for now we still loom in it's shadows and almost all of us were if not raised on them, remain highly exposed to them. In the growth of modern humanism I to quote the good book, I have a fear that these ethics are a house built on sand. That won't stand the test of meaningful challenge, and that what will come as the foundations crumble beneath it especially as it amounts to the atomization of the community will be a much crueller world.

Ethical systems don't need to be based on religion to be solid. Philosophy has provided us with more than a few such solid systems.

Oh come on... What could possibly be a more solid foundation for morals and/or ethics than "my imaginary sky-daddy said so"?
;)
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The Wolven League
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Postby The Wolven League » Tue May 12, 2015 6:38 pm

Genivaria wrote:
The Merchant Republics wrote:
I worry about what will happen in the generations after Christendom, for now we still loom in it's shadows and almost all of us were if not raised on them, remain highly exposed to them. In the growth of modern humanism I to quote the good book, I have a fear that these ethics are a house built on sand. That won't stand the test of meaningful challenge, and that what will come as the foundations crumble beneath it especially as it amounts to the atomization of the community will be a much crueller world.

That's okay, I think much the same of Biblical morality.

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The Merchant Republics
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Founded: Oct 25, 2010
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Postby The Merchant Republics » Tue May 12, 2015 6:40 pm

Nierra wrote:
The Merchant Republics wrote:An unsurprising result, it is hardly surprising that there is a declining interest in religion and declining relevance to it in our society, it has been a common theme of society for decades.

As a Christian, this is of course unhappy news; I hate to think of the many people living the faith either out of disinterest or as often is the case being driven away by bad theology, but there is an element that much of the "Christians" we are losing are those that never really counted themselves as such, people who only believed because it was what they were brought up in and so they felt it necessary to call themselves such.

As atheism becomes more publicly recognized and publicly accepted we will of course see more people that tread the line of Christianity out of social pressure leaving. This is not a bad thing. Culture Christians who practice Christian ethics without fostering a genuine relationship with God are not really meaningfully deserving of the title Christian, and if they would prefer the moniker humanist or atheist, I can hardly see a reason to not let them go.

I worry about what will happen in the generations after Christendom, for now we still loom in it's shadows and almost all of us were if not raised on them, remain highly exposed to them. In the growth of modern humanism I to quote the good book, I have a fear that these ethics are a house built on sand. That won't stand the test of meaningful challenge, and that what will come as the foundations crumble beneath it especially as it amounts to the atomization of the community will be a much crueller world.


So you think a country has to be religious to be stable?


That would not be a correct reading of what I said.

I suppose what I meant to say is that a nation must have a strong ethical foundation to remain virtuous; naturally admitting that virtuous is itself a ethical question; but a nation must be able to maintain it's own sense of virtue and strive towards it.

I do not believe an irreligious nation will descend into a hellish wasteland for mere lack of going to church on Sundays. The issue is that secular humanism I believe lacks the proper foundations, or perhaps better said lacks a convincing drive to virtue. What I mean to say is that Western Society is increasingly destroying our local sense of community, and while we are also gaining increasing global consciousness and tolerance, that our tolerance and global consciousness is not well-grounded. We are dawning on an age of relativism, but whereas now we say "I'm an atheist, your a Christian, he's a Muslim let's just be tolerant of each other's ideas." relativistic ethics is very silent on what to do when everyone or almost everyone is going to be born into a non-dogmatic ethical system.

To sort of streamline my point, we are reaching a point where people will not actually know the answer to "What would Jesus do?" and it's not that no one believes in Jesus that's the problem, it's that no one believes in anything that is.
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The Merchant Republics
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Postby The Merchant Republics » Tue May 12, 2015 6:48 pm

Dyakovo wrote:
Scomagia wrote:Ethical systems don't need to be based on religion to be solid. Philosophy has provided us with more than a few such solid systems.

Oh come on... What could possibly be a more solid foundation for morals and/or ethics than "my imaginary sky-daddy said so"?
;)


That is a horrible misrepresentation of Christian ethics, and misunderstands my point. Christian motivation may be suspect to you. You may not even like Christian ethical precepts, but to be Christian presupposes certain fundamental beliefs; that to be atheist (I believe most atheists will agree) does not.

We are about to see Western society evolve (or devolve as I would prefer :P ) from one with a strong central ethical paradigm to one that is going to become increasingly poly-centric. We are going to create what will be essentially a power vacuum in our culture. I would argue we are seeing that already, increased polarization of viewpoints and the breakdown of local communities, declining religiosity is hardly the only cause nor is it the only solution, but being that I am a Christian I do believe it is the best solution, and I do fear that alternatives will bring about much worse than we ever had in Christendom.
Last edited by The Merchant Republics on Tue May 12, 2015 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Christian Libertarian Autarchist: like an Anarchist but with more "Aut".
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Economic: Left/Right (7.55)
We are the premiere of civilization, the beacon of liberty, the font of prosperity and the ever illuminating light of culture in this hellish universe.
In short: Elitist Wicked Cultured Free Market Anarchists living in a Diesel-Deco World.

Now Fearing: Mandarin Lessons from Cantonese teachers.
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Nierra
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Posts: 800
Founded: May 07, 2015
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Postby Nierra » Tue May 12, 2015 6:50 pm

The Merchant Republics wrote:
Nierra wrote:
So you think a country has to be religious to be stable?


That would not be a correct reading of what I said.

I suppose what I meant to say is that a nation must have a strong ethical foundation to remain virtuous; naturally admitting that virtuous is itself a ethical question; but a nation must be able to maintain it's own sense of virtue and strive towards it.

I do not believe an irreligious nation will descend into a hellish wasteland for mere lack of going to church on Sundays. The issue is that secular humanism I believe lacks the proper foundations, or perhaps better said lacks a convincing drive to virtue. What I mean to say is that Western Society is increasingly destroying our local sense of community, and while we are also gaining increasing global consciousness and tolerance, that our tolerance and global consciousness is not well-grounded. We are dawning on an age of relativism, but whereas now we say "I'm an atheist, your a Christian, he's a Muslim let's just be tolerant of each other's ideas." relativistic ethics is very silent on what to do when everyone or almost everyone is going to be born into a non-dogmatic ethical system.

To sort of streamline my point, we are reaching a point where people will not actually know the answer to "What would Jesus do?" and it's not that no one believes in Jesus that's the problem, it's that no one believes in anything that is.


I understand where you're coming from then, it's a real concern no doubt and while I don't believe society is moving in that direction I do understand why you believe it would be.

However, lacking a formal religious base doesn't mean you lack a personal moral base. For instance, I'm strongly against abortion (not legally, but personally) due to the clashing fundamental values it exhibits, but I'm not religious. I have a strong value of human life, and human prosperity and progress and that's my rock for making most decisions. Everyone has their own rock, and it isn't nor should it be the same for everyone.

The thing is, we need to all collaborate and showcase our viewpoints and openly challenge each other rather than just lay back and be indifferent. The issue you're talking about is apathy, and I don't believe we are headed in that direction.
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Nierra
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Postby Nierra » Tue May 12, 2015 6:52 pm

The Merchant Republics wrote:
Dyakovo wrote:Oh come on... What could possibly be a more solid foundation for morals and/or ethics than "my imaginary sky-daddy said so"?
;)


That is a horrible misrepresentation of Christian ethics, and misunderstands my point. Christian motivation may be suspect to you. You may not even like Christian ethical precepts, but to be Christian presupposes certain fundamental beliefs; that to be atheist (I believe most atheists will agree) does not.

We are about to see Western society evolve (or devolve as I would prefer :P ) from one with a strong central ethical paradigm to one that is going to become increasingly poly-centric. We are going to create what will be essentially a power vacuum in our culture. I would argue we are seeing that already, increased polarization of viewpoints and the breakdown of local communities, declining religiosity is hardly the only cause nor is it the only solution, but being that I am a Christian I do believe it is the best solution, and I do fear that alternatives will bring about much worse than we ever had in Christendom.


Don't mind them, they're close minded egoists upholding the tradition of atheistic leftism. It's funny how many people with a similar platform in attacking religion and religious people is routed in "open mindedness".
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The Merchant Republics
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Postby The Merchant Republics » Tue May 12, 2015 6:58 pm

Nierra wrote:I understand where you're coming from then, it's a real concern no doubt and while I don't believe society is moving in that direction I do understand why you believe it would be.

However, lacking a formal religious base doesn't mean you lack a personal moral base. For instance, I'm strongly against abortion (not legally, but personally) due to the clashing fundamental values it exhibits, but I'm not religious. I have a strong value of human life, and human prosperity and progress and that's my rock for making most decisions. Everyone has their own rock, and it isn't nor should it be the same for everyone.

The thing is, we need to all collaborate and showcase our viewpoints and openly challenge each other rather than just lay back and be indifferent. The issue you're talking about is apathy, and I don't believe we are headed in that direction.


I'm glad I got my point across there.

No absolutely, I am very aware of that. Moral sense can come from many things, religion is a major source but it is not the only one. There are many alternatives to Christian ethics, but my worry is that much of Western society presupposes ethical congruity and for centuries; we uniquely perhaps in all of history had a single unifying cultural force in Christianity. As we move further and further away from Christianity towards relativism and atomization we will find ourselves increasingly polarized by viewpoints that before might have been shared but now developed separately from one another, and from there we will become more and more unstable.

I think you are wrong to think I worry about apathy, it's not that no one will care, it's that no one will be able to see eye-to-eye. I am hopeful for the collaboration you speak of, it's happened before and hopefully it can float us through these times, but NSG is perhaps a great example of this exact problem, earnest even dare I say intellectual discussion and dialogue does not necessarily result in unity.
Last edited by The Merchant Republics on Tue May 12, 2015 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Nierra
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Founded: May 07, 2015
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Postby Nierra » Tue May 12, 2015 7:08 pm

The Merchant Republics wrote:
Nierra wrote:I understand where you're coming from then, it's a real concern no doubt and while I don't believe society is moving in that direction I do understand why you believe it would be.

However, lacking a formal religious base doesn't mean you lack a personal moral base. For instance, I'm strongly against abortion (not legally, but personally) due to the clashing fundamental values it exhibits, but I'm not religious. I have a strong value of human life, and human prosperity and progress and that's my rock for making most decisions. Everyone has their own rock, and it isn't nor should it be the same for everyone.

The thing is, we need to all collaborate and showcase our viewpoints and openly challenge each other rather than just lay back and be indifferent. The issue you're talking about is apathy, and I don't believe we are headed in that direction.


I'm glad I got my point across there.

No absolutely, I am very aware of that. Moral sense can come from many things, religion is a major source but it is not the only one. There are many alternatives to Christian ethics, but my worry is that much of Western society presupposes ethical congruity and for centuries; we uniquely perhaps in all of history had a single unifying cultural force in Christianity. As we move further and further away from Christianity towards relativism and atomization we will find ourselves increasingly polarized by viewpoints that before might have been shared but now developed separately from one another, and from there we will become more and more unstable.

I think you are wrong to think I worry about apathy, it's not that no one will care, it's that no one will be able to see eye-to-eye. I am hopeful for the collaboration you speak of, it's happened before and hopefully it can float us through these times, but NSG is perhaps a great example of this exact problem, earnest even dare I say intellectual discussion and dialogue does not necessarily result in unity.


Yet I believe this generation and most newer generations have their principles rooted in egalitarianism and liberalism. That in itself is a moral "rock" if you will, but better than a rock it's a guideline, and these trends are what we base our insights on. However we really have to work on collaboration and such.
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The Merchant Republics
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Postby The Merchant Republics » Tue May 12, 2015 7:12 pm

Nierra wrote:Don't mind them, they're close minded egoists upholding the tradition of atheistic leftism. It's funny how many people with a similar platform in attacking religion and religious people is routed in "open mindedness".


Oh I know enough to ignore the barbs. Thanks for being a little more open-minded though, I appreciate your thoughts.

I will say,

I don't really care for when people call God "sky-daddy" or other intensely human comparisons, in my view it was a heresy to ever depict God as a bodily person (beautiful works of the renaissance forgiven), it limits Him; trivializes Him. He becomes like an idol, whether to worship or to mock, a static dead image is unworthy of a living God.

My God is not in the sky lounging on a cloud, he is not a senile bearded grandfather, doting on mankind and granting prayers on command. He is worthy of worship, beyond both time and space. He has never been a man in the clouds and He should not be treated as some fairy of goodwill and well wishes. That he is just shows how utterly shallow our understanding is nowadays of him.
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In short: Elitist Wicked Cultured Free Market Anarchists living in a Diesel-Deco World.

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Dyakovo
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Postby Dyakovo » Tue May 12, 2015 7:15 pm

Nierra wrote:
The Merchant Republics wrote:
That is a horrible misrepresentation of Christian ethics, and misunderstands my point. Christian motivation may be suspect to you. You may not even like Christian ethical precepts, but to be Christian presupposes certain fundamental beliefs; that to be atheist (I believe most atheists will agree) does not.

We are about to see Western society evolve (or devolve as I would prefer :P ) from one with a strong central ethical paradigm to one that is going to become increasingly poly-centric. We are going to create what will be essentially a power vacuum in our culture. I would argue we are seeing that already, increased polarization of viewpoints and the breakdown of local communities, declining religiosity is hardly the only cause nor is it the only solution, but being that I am a Christian I do believe it is the best solution, and I do fear that alternatives will bring about much worse than we ever had in Christendom.


Don't mind them, they're close minded egoists upholding the tradition of atheistic leftism. It's funny how many people with a similar platform in attacking religion and religious people is routed in "open mindedness".

"Them", "they"? Since when am I more than one person? Nor is atheism "leftist" (or rightist), what with it not being an economic ideology (or an ideology at all for that matter).
Additionally, I'm quite open-minded. Present me with verifiable evidence is all I ask, and since no religion can manage that I've no use for it.
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The Merchant Republics
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Postby The Merchant Republics » Tue May 12, 2015 7:20 pm

Nierra wrote:
Yet I believe this generation and most newer generations have their principles rooted in egalitarianism and liberalism. That in itself is a moral "rock" if you will, but better than a rock it's a guideline, and these trends are what we base our insights on. However we really have to work on collaboration and such.


Aye; that's true.

Perhaps in a way I hadn't thought of before, both liberalism and egalitarianism hold some potential as a replacement dominant ethical structure; though I have my doubts that they will prove adequate ones, alone anyways.

Liberalism and egalitarianism are both at the core very relativistic when it comes to necessary questions that should be answered for a society to hold. And relativism ultimately is an useless concept divorced from other ethical structures for it to mute and blend.
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Bogdanov Vishniac
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Postby Bogdanov Vishniac » Tue May 12, 2015 7:30 pm

Nierra wrote:Don't mind them, they're close minded egoists upholding the tradition of atheistic leftism. It's funny how many people with a similar platform in attacking religion and religious people is routed in "open mindedness".


You really should get your insults straight before you post. Either bash Dyakovo for being an amoral hedonistic nihilist or a fire-breathing zealous leftist - the two positions are pretty mutually exclusive.
Last edited by Bogdanov Vishniac on Tue May 12, 2015 7:32 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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The Merchant Republics
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Postby The Merchant Republics » Tue May 12, 2015 7:34 pm

Dyakovo wrote:"Them", "they"? Since when am I more than one person? Nor is atheism "leftist" (or rightist), what with it not being an economic ideology (or an ideology at all for that matter).
Additionally, I'm quite open-minded. Present me with verifiable evidence is all I ask, and since no religion can manage that I've no use for it.


Evidence verifiable within a rather close-minded concept of evidence, verification and presentation; not that you are wrong to hold to those precepts. There is a lot to be said for a purely empirical system of knowledge, it has it's own faults, at it's core, but so does mine.

To elaborate atheism usually derives from a naturalistic world view, as that is ultimately all that we can empirically prove; but by omitting the possibility of the supernatural, you can be blinded to what is I feel the superior explanatory power of it.

It is like investigating a death but omitting the possibility of murder; it doesn't matter if the man was hit several times on the head with a hammer, if you refuse to allow for an explanation except by natural causes you can be left with a much more improbable scenario, that is exact to the evidence; i.e. that windstorm came in and blew the man abruptly into the hammer several times or something to that effect.

Though I more meant to reply to agree with you. I do not consider atheism particularly locked with any one ideology, it is true that conservatives and right-wing groups tend to be more religious, but they also tend to be more traditional in general. Neither side of the spectrum has the right to claim either atheism or Christianity belongs to them.
Last edited by The Merchant Republics on Tue May 12, 2015 7:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Social: Authoritarian/Libertarian (-8.55)
Economic: Left/Right (7.55)
We are the premiere of civilization, the beacon of liberty, the font of prosperity and the ever illuminating light of culture in this hellish universe.
In short: Elitist Wicked Cultured Free Market Anarchists living in a Diesel-Deco World.

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Nierra
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Founded: May 07, 2015
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Postby Nierra » Tue May 12, 2015 7:36 pm

Dyakovo wrote:
Nierra wrote:
Don't mind them, they're close minded egoists upholding the tradition of atheistic leftism. It's funny how many people with a similar platform in attacking religion and religious people is routed in "open mindedness".

"Them", "they"? Since when am I more than one person? Nor is atheism "leftist" (or rightist), what with it not being an economic ideology (or an ideology at all for that matter).
Additionally, I'm quite open-minded. Present me with verifiable evidence is all I ask, and since no religion can manage that I've no use for it.


Verifiable evidence =/= open minded, in fact that's the opposite. It suggests your judgement is limited to being based off of objective scientific value which is to say not very open minded at all. Science is actually a very close minded field of study to begin with, it must be.

Moral values cannot be pinned down to any verifiable or objective evidence, and religion falls into an framework that believes itself capable of pinning down these moral values through the usage of scripture. It has nothing to do with simply worshiping a fairy tale for the sake of it and to trivialize it as such shows your close mindedness.
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Prussia-Steinbach
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Postby Prussia-Steinbach » Tue May 12, 2015 7:41 pm

Nierra wrote:Verifiable evidence =/= open minded, in fact that's the opposite.

Open minded =/= believing whatever someone tells you.
Nierra wrote:It suggests your judgement is limited to being based off of objective scientific value which is to say not very open minded at all.

Empiricism? Rationality?
Nierra wrote:Science is actually a very close minded field of study to begin with, it must be.

wat
Nierra wrote:Moral values cannot be pinned down to any verifiable or objective evidence...

Yes they can. Basic human empathy. Does it hurt someone else? Don't do it. You use logic. Would I want someone to do this to me?
Nierra wrote:...and religion falls into an framework that believes itself capable of pinning down these moral values through the usage of scripture.

I could write "scripture" that said drowning babies will send us to heaven after we die. Does that make it valid?
Nierra wrote:...It has nothing to do with simply worshiping a fairy tale for the sake of it...

That's exactly what it fucking is.
Nierra wrote:...and to trivialize it as such shows your close mindedness.

No; only an irrational, illogical, and close minded person would choose to believe in one out of thousands of gods in the world, all which have the same validity.
Last edited by Prussia-Steinbach on Tue May 12, 2015 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ajax Prime
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Postby Ajax Prime » Tue May 12, 2015 7:42 pm

I'll start with the fact I am a Christian.

With science having such hard evidence that non-believers throw in our faces and all we can come back with is "Well the bible says you're going to Hell for that" I could see why Christianity is losing members. Not to mention how militant some Christians get toward anything not Christian. My grandma for instance, who I love to death, yelled at me for believing the Earth is billions of years old, not 6,000 as the Bible hints. I mean, humanity is older than the Earth by her crazy ass facts. What keeps me holding on to my faith is the belief that when I die I will wind up somewhere nice. Do I believe the big bang? Yes, it's hard not to. Do I believe in Noah's ark? No. It sounds like a fairy tale to me. Will I raise my child to believe in God? I'm not sure. At this point, I believe in God but almost no other part of Christianity. I think any religion is just a set of morals to live by to make the world a better place, but most Christians I know only believe that if it doesn't involve any other ideology. "Do unto others as you would wish others do unto you... unless they are non-believers" <--- That is what most of the Christians I know go by, even if they wont admit it.

Long story short, I'm not surprised and I'm not upset. Christianity needs to cope with the times, much like the Republican party (of which I am a member). The times they are a changin'.
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Big Jim P
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Postby Big Jim P » Tue May 12, 2015 7:46 pm

Dyakovo wrote:
Nierra wrote:
Don't mind them, they're close minded egoists upholding the tradition of atheistic leftism. It's funny how many people with a similar platform in attacking religion and religious people is routed in "open mindedness".

"Them", "they"? Since when am I more than one person? Nor is atheism "leftist" (or rightist), what with it not being an economic ideology (or an ideology at all for that matter).
Additionally, I'm quite open-minded. Present me with verifiable evidence is all I ask, and since no religion can manage that I've no use for it.


I am an atheist so that means I am a leftist? :shock:

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Republic of the Cristo
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Founded: Apr 16, 2015
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Postby Republic of the Cristo » Tue May 12, 2015 7:48 pm

Ajax Prime wrote:I'll start with the fact I am a Christian.

With science having such hard evidence that non-believers throw in our faces and all we can come back with is "Well the bible says you're going to Hell for that" I could see why Christianity is losing members. Not to mention how militant some Christians get toward anything not Christian. My grandma for instance, who I love to death, yelled at me for believing the Earth is billions of years old, not 6,000 as the Bible hints. I mean, humanity is older than the Earth by her crazy ass facts. What keeps me holding on to my faith is the belief that when I die I will wind up somewhere nice. Do I believe the big bang? Yes, it's hard not to. Do I believe in Noah's ark? No. It sounds like a fairy tale to me. Will I raise my child to believe in God? I'm not sure. At this point, I believe in God but almost no other part of Christianity. I think any religion is just a set of morals to live by to make the world a better place, but most Christians I know only believe that if it doesn't involve any other ideology. "Do unto others as you would wish others do unto you... unless they are non-believers" <--- That is what most of the Christians I know go by, even if they wont admit it.

Long story short, I'm not surprised and I'm not upset. Christianity needs to cope with the times, much like the Republican party (of which I am a member). The times they are a changin'.


Actually, Science is not the reason why more and more people are loosing faith. have you ever had a talk with your run of the mill Agnostic or atheist or what ever? They all say the don't believe in God, but for really no reason other than it is hard to live up to that standard. Most aren't going to say " Oh well, I find that with the scientific evidence of evolution, and the fact that we have generally well backed theories regarding how the big bang occurred..." No, this is not a common response. Most will say " Why should I? What has he done for me?" Or something of the variant. Also, just because some on is a YEC, doesn't mean their a crazy fundie. Most Christians do believe this.

Just to throw this out there, I am a theocratic fundamentalist. LET THE HATE ROLL IN! :lol:
Last edited by Republic of the Cristo on Tue May 12, 2015 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Reverend Norv
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Postby Reverend Norv » Tue May 12, 2015 7:51 pm

Apparently, most of these losses are coming from mainline Protestant churches. Those churches also happen to be the ones that are pushing for marriage equality, fighting social injustice, and seeking to live out Christ's radical love in a broken world. They are, in short, Christian.

If Americans look at those churches, and decide that they would prefer either the company of fundamentalists or a life devoid of religious experience, then the problem isn't with Christianity - it's with America. And if it's the mainline churches that are collapsing while evangelicals and atheists thrive, then the reality is that we ceased to be a Christian country a long time ago.
For really, I think that the poorest he that is in England hath a life to live as the greatest he. And therefore truly, Sir, I think it's clear that every man that is to live under a Government ought first by his own consent to put himself under that Government. And I do think that the poorest man in England is not at all bound in a strict sense to that Government that he hath not had a voice to put himself under.
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Arach-Naga Combine
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Posts: 574
Founded: Apr 08, 2015
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Postby Arach-Naga Combine » Tue May 12, 2015 7:52 pm

Republic of the Cristo wrote:
Ajax Prime wrote:I'll start with the fact I am a Christian.

With science having such hard evidence that non-believers throw in our faces and all we can come back with is "Well the bible says you're going to Hell for that" I could see why Christianity is losing members. Not to mention how militant some Christians get toward anything not Christian. My grandma for instance, who I love to death, yelled at me for believing the Earth is billions of years old, not 6,000 as the Bible hints. I mean, humanity is older than the Earth by her crazy ass facts. What keeps me holding on to my faith is the belief that when I die I will wind up somewhere nice. Do I believe the big bang? Yes, it's hard not to. Do I believe in Noah's ark? No. It sounds like a fairy tale to me. Will I raise my child to believe in God? I'm not sure. At this point, I believe in God but almost no other part of Christianity. I think any religion is just a set of morals to live by to make the world a better place, but most Christians I know only believe that if it doesn't involve any other ideology. "Do unto others as you would wish others do unto you... unless they are non-believers" <--- That is what most of the Christians I know go by, even if they wont admit it.

Long story short, I'm not surprised and I'm not upset. Christianity needs to cope with the times, much like the Republican party (of which I am a member). The times they are a changin'.


Actually, Science is not the reason why more and more people are loosing faith. have you ever had a talk with your run of the mill Agnostic or atheist or what ever? They all say the don't believe in God, but for really no reason other than it is hard to live up to that standard. Most aren't going to say " Oh well, I find that with the scientific evidence of evolution, and the fact that we have generally well backed theories regarding how the big bang occurred..." No, this is not a common response. Most will say " Why should I? What has he done for me?" Or something of the variant. Also, just because some on is a YEC, doesn't mean their a crazy fundie. Most Christians do believe this.

Just to throw this out there, I am a theocratic fundamentalist. LET THE HATE ROLL IN! :lol:

There is nothing wrong with your fundamentalism, the issue is your theism(and more importantly, theocratic political views, assuming you've presented yourself accurately).
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Prussia-Steinbach
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Posts: 22386
Founded: Mar 12, 2012
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Postby Prussia-Steinbach » Tue May 12, 2015 7:52 pm

Republic of the Cristo wrote:Actually, Science is not the reason why more and more people are loosing faith. have you ever had a talk with your run of the mill Agnostic or atheist or what ever? They all say the don't believe in God, but for really no reason other than it is hard to live up to that standard.

LOL! Or maybe it's because there is zero evidence for anything supernatural, huh? Yeah, that might be it.
Republic of the Cristo wrote:Most aren't going to say " Oh well, I find that with the scientific evidence of evolution, and the fact that we have generally well backed theories regarding how the big bang occurred..." No, this is not a common response.

Yes it is. There's evidence for evolution and none for god. Therefore, no reason to believe in a god.
Republic of the Cristo wrote:Most will say " Why should I? What has he done for me?" Or something of the variant.

Sure, because no god has ever done shit for us because one doesn't exist.
Republic of the Cristo wrote:Just to throw this out there, I am a theocratic fundamentalist. LET THE HATE ROLL IN! :lol:

Yeah, people with bigoted, oppressive, and intolerant ideologies usually get that.
I don't care if people hate my guts; I assume most of them do.
The question is whether they are in a position to do anything about it. ― William S. Burroughs


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Republic of the Cristo
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Posts: 12261
Founded: Apr 16, 2015
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Postby Republic of the Cristo » Tue May 12, 2015 7:54 pm

Arach-Naga Combine wrote:
Republic of the Cristo wrote:
Actually, Science is not the reason why more and more people are loosing faith. have you ever had a talk with your run of the mill Agnostic or atheist or what ever? They all say the don't believe in God, but for really no reason other than it is hard to live up to that standard. Most aren't going to say " Oh well, I find that with the scientific evidence of evolution, and the fact that we have generally well backed theories regarding how the big bang occurred..." No, this is not a common response. Most will say " Why should I? What has he done for me?" Or something of the variant. Also, just because some on is a YEC, doesn't mean their a crazy fundie. Most Christians do believe this.

Just to throw this out there, I am a theocratic fundamentalist. LET THE HATE ROLL IN! :lol:

There is nothing wrong with your fundamentalism, the issue is your theism(and more importantly, theocratic political views, assuming you've presented yourself accurately).


My belief in a higher being is the problem?
Orthodox Christian, Nationalist, Reactionary, Stoic


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Prussia-Steinbach
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Posts: 22386
Founded: Mar 12, 2012
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Postby Prussia-Steinbach » Tue May 12, 2015 7:55 pm

Republic of the Cristo wrote:My belief in a higher being is the problem?

Your apparent need to force the will of a flying spaghetti monster on people who don't believe is.
I don't care if people hate my guts; I assume most of them do.
The question is whether they are in a position to do anything about it. ― William S. Burroughs


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Arach-Naga Combine
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Posts: 574
Founded: Apr 08, 2015
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Postby Arach-Naga Combine » Tue May 12, 2015 7:56 pm

Republic of the Cristo wrote:
Arach-Naga Combine wrote:There is nothing wrong with your fundamentalism, the issue is your theism(and more importantly, theocratic political views, assuming you've presented yourself accurately).


My belief in a higher being is the problem?

Yes. The irrational belief in the supernatural/diefic/otherworldly is inherently a problem.
Undisputed snuggling champions of all realities across all multiverses

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