Hasbro Toy Erases Black Widow From Her Own Scene

[Tekania]

True, but what does removing the character from the equipment that was pivotal to the scene, and putting another character in her place do in terms of a message sent? Note that I'm not asking whether or not Hasbro has to worry about said message--they do in my estimation, but that's another point entirely--but what message is there, if any?

Just thinking about it from the perspective of s kid who might want to play with the toy, I'm just thinking that I generally wouldn't want Black Widow to permanently be on Cap's bike, as outside of a very particular set of circumstances, it doesn't make much sense.

Though it would have been pretty awesome to have two figures that could go on the bike.

That set is scaled to the 2.5" figure sub-line.... any of the 2.5" Age of Ultron figures can ride it or fit in the jet.

[Fartsniffage]

Just thinking about it from the perspective of s kid who might want to play with the toy, I'm just thinking that I generally wouldn't want Black Widow to permanently be on Cap's bike, as outside of a very particular set of circumstances, it doesn't make much sense.

Though it would have been pretty awesome to have two figures that could go on the bike.

That set is scaled to the 2.5" figure sub-line.... any of the 2.5" Age of Ultron figures can ride it or fit in the jet.

Ah, so people could just pick up a Black Widow 2.5" Age of Ultron figure and do it that way. Any idea where one could be got?

[Robert Magoo]

I think I kind of get where you're coming from with this. I think it wouldn't make much sense for Black Widow to be riding Captain America's bike, but the marketing makes reference to the scene, and IT does wipe out her role. It probably would have been better to just not mention any particular scene on the box at all.

[Tekania]

That set is scaled to the 2.5" figure sub-line.... any of the 2.5" Age of Ultron figures can ride it or fit in the jet.

Ah, so people could just pick up a Black Widow 2.5" Age of Ultron figure and do it that way. Any idea where one could be got?

Not sure, I'll have to check around my sources.... I'm normally a transformers collector, don't collect Marvel stuff (and over in TF land we're getting a 6-member all fem-bot combiner team as the fan pick this round, which has us stoked..... hoping to see them show off the test-hots at SDCC this year.)

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

Disney is fighting back against the slow feminization of male America. Duh.

[Lyrian Oligarchic Royal Empire]

Disney is fighting back against the slow feminization of male America. Duh.

(Realizing this is a joking statement)

Yes, the company which refuses to allow cross-continuity prints to happen due to the fear of diluting particular brands of princesses is afraid of feminization.

[Fartsniffage]

Ah, so people could just pick up a Black Widow 2.5" Age of Ultron figure and do it that way. Any idea where one could be got?

Not sure, I'll have to check around my sources.... I'm normally a transformers collector, don't collect Marvel stuff (and over in TF land we're getting a 6-member all fem-bot combiner team as the fan pick this round, which has us stoked..... hoping to see them show off the test-hots at SDCC this year.)

I wasn't being 100% serious. Harbro haven't produced as 2.5" Black Widow figure for Age of Ultron.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

In a leaked email, Marvel CEO Ike Perlmutter dismisses out of hand the idea of a female-led superhero movie.

[Lyrian Oligarchic Royal Empire]

In a leaked email, Marvel CEO Ike Perlmutter dismisses out of hand the idea of a female-led superhero movie.

Are they doing Mar-Vell?

I thought Carol Danvers was the Captain Marvel movie choice.

[Tahar Joblis]

In a leaked email, Marvel CEO Ike Perlmutter dismisses out of hand the idea of a female-led superhero movie.

That doesn't seem like an accurate summary.

Michael,
As we discussed on the phone, below are just a few examples. There are more.
Thanks,
Ike
1. Electra (Marvel) – Very bad idea and the end result was very, very bad. http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=elektra.htm
2. Catwoman (WB/DC) – Catwoman was one of the most important female character within the Batmanfranchise. This film was a disaster. http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=catwoman.htm
3. Supergirl – (DC) Supergirl was one of the most important female super hero in Superman franchise. This Movie came out in 1984 and did $14 million total domestic with opening weekend of $5.5 million. Again, another disaster.
Best,
Ike

What he's saying in that e-mail is that female superhero movies have done terribly at the box office.

As exhibited by the fact that they actually put a Captain Marvel movie on the schedule, this isn't quite "dismissing" the idea of a female-lead superhero movie... it is perhaps questioning that it is a good business idea. "Dismiss" implies that was the end of the discussion; clearly not. Nor is this "out of hand." This is based on a long record of attempts and failures.

It's not even clear that he's expressing opposition to the idea. This is pointed out in the article you linked to, so we can't (unlike the Polygon articles you linked to earlier) blame the author of the article; overlooking this is your problem.

As Disney and Marvel have faced increasing criticism for their failure to highlight female heroes in previous movies, Indiewire found a message from Perlmutter to Sony executive Michael Lynton listing female superhero films that have failed. The context of the summer 2014 email is unclear: Perlmutter could be enumerating the films as proof that female superhero movies bomb at the box office, or he may be optimistically hoping to break the pattern. (Marvel declined to comment.)

[Occupied Deutschland]

In a leaked email, Marvel CEO Ike Perlmutter dismisses out of hand the idea of a female-led superhero movie.

He's...kind of got a point, and he's not 'dismissing' it as much as bringing up previous ones which have failed.
I mean, the last female-led superhero movie I remember was Electra (which he mentions). And it was a Baskin-Robbins forty-two flavors of shit. Catwoman doubly so. Both suffered from terrible writing, bad acting, etc.
Considering Captain Marvel is in the planning/pre-production/production(?) stages, it'd make sense for them to refer back to the shitty superheroine movies of the past if for no other reason than to attempt and avoid their mistakes.

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

He's...kind of got a point, and he's not 'dismissing' it as much as bringing up previous ones which have failed.
I mean, the last female-led superhero movie I remember was Electra (which he mentions). And it was a Baskin-Robbins forty-two flavors of shit. Catwoman doubly so. Both suffered from terrible writing, bad acting, etc.
Considering Captain Marvel is in the planning/pre-production/production(?) stages, it'd make sense for them to refer back to the shitty superheroine movies of the past if for no other reason than to attempt and avoid their mistakes.

They've got Joss Whedon on tap, though. If anyone could write and direct a successful female lead superhero movie, it's Joss.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

In a leaked email, Marvel CEO Ike Perlmutter dismisses out of hand the idea of a female-led superhero movie.

He's...kind of got a point, and he's not 'dismissing' it as much as bringing up previous ones which have failed.
I mean, the last female-led superhero movie I remember was Electra (which he mentions). And it was a Baskin-Robbins forty-two flavors of shit. Catwoman doubly so. Both suffered from terrible writing, bad acting, etc.
Considering Captain Marvel is in the planning/pre-production/production(?) stages, it'd make sense for them to refer back to the shitty superheroine movies of the past if for no other reason than to attempt and avoid their mistakes.

And yet the failures of Green Lantern, Daredevil, and Batman And Robin weren't seen as a sign that male-led superhero movies weren't profitable. In fact, the stars of the first two are getting chances to play different heroes, with the star of the second playing the main character of the third in a new film.

[Fartsniffage]

He's...kind of got a point, and he's not 'dismissing' it as much as bringing up previous ones which have failed.
I mean, the last female-led superhero movie I remember was Electra (which he mentions). And it was a Baskin-Robbins forty-two flavors of shit. Catwoman doubly so. Both suffered from terrible writing, bad acting, etc.
Considering Captain Marvel is in the planning/pre-production/production(?) stages, it'd make sense for them to refer back to the shitty superheroine movies of the past if for no other reason than to attempt and avoid their mistakes.

They've got Joss Whedon on tap, though. If anyone could write and direct a successful female lead superhero movie, it's Joss.

Well Joss has already expressed his frustration with sexism stopping the production of female superhero movies by Marvel. I'm pretty sure he wants to do one.

[Charellia]

It's been a while since I regularly watched commercials for Hasbro toys, but I don't recall them ever being too concerned about keeping their toys perfectly accurate to the movies even when they do try to reference specific scenes. Captain America is a much more recognizable, and therefore marketable, character than Black Widow. It's not really evidence of sexism that Hasbro/Disney would choose to focus on a colourfully costumed hero with nationalistic appeal over a character like Black Widow who, while cool, is doesn't really stand out in the Avengers lineup.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

He's...kind of got a point, and he's not 'dismissing' it as much as bringing up previous ones which have failed.
I mean, the last female-led superhero movie I remember was Electra (which he mentions). And it was a Baskin-Robbins forty-two flavors of shit. Catwoman doubly so. Both suffered from terrible writing, bad acting, etc.
Considering Captain Marvel is in the planning/pre-production/production(?) stages, it'd make sense for them to refer back to the shitty superheroine movies of the past if for no other reason than to attempt and avoid their mistakes.

They've got Joss Whedon on tap, though. If anyone could write and direct a successful female lead superhero movie, it's Joss.

He's backing off from Marvel, and moving on to other projects. Besides, after getting so badly burned on Wonder Woman (seriously, it took THIS LONG for the studios to come up with a movie starring the most famous comic book superheroine of ALL TIME?), I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't want to play the role of the "man who can write strong women" for a while.

[Lyrian Oligarchic Royal Empire]

They've got Joss Whedon on tap, though. If anyone could write and direct a successful female lead superhero movie, it's Joss.

Well Joss has already expressed his frustration with sexism stopping the production of female superhero movies by Marvel. I'm pretty sure he wants to do one.

I wouldn't hire Whedon to do it anyway. He's a slave to his baggage, and is not the easiest person to engage with in a give and take. At least, based on past interactions with Marvel.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Well Joss has already expressed his frustration with sexism stopping the production of female superhero movies by Marvel. I'm pretty sure he wants to do one.

I wouldn't hire Whedon to do it anyway. He's a slave to his baggage, and is not the easiest person to engage with in a give and take. At least, based on past interactions with Marvel.

Which was why they gave him their flagship movies?

[Lyrian Oligarchic Royal Empire]

They've got Joss Whedon on tap, though. If anyone could write and direct a successful female lead superhero movie, it's Joss.

He's backing off from Marvel, and moving on to other projects. Besides, after getting so badly burned on Wonder Woman (seriously, it took THIS LONG for the studios to come up with a movie starring the most famous comic book superheroine of ALL TIME?), I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't want to play the role of the "man who can write strong women" for a while.

Wonder Woman comes with a lot of problems of its own, the cross-pantheon, the Nu52 wanging the old continuities, and America's fascination with fucking romance B-plots in everything have salted that earth something fierce.

The other swelling force is that DC abhors the terms under which it owns the license.

[Lyrian Oligarchic Royal Empire]

I wouldn't hire Whedon to do it anyway. He's a slave to his baggage, and is not the easiest person to engage with in a give and take. At least, based on past interactions with Marvel.

Which was why they gave him their flagship movies?

Disney, not Marvel, did that. Marvel was leery after the Astonishing X-Men problems, Whedon hits homeruns or grounds out to the pitcher. He's very feast or famine.

[Occupied Deutschland]

He's...kind of got a point, and he's not 'dismissing' it as much as bringing up previous ones which have failed.
I mean, the last female-led superhero movie I remember was Electra (which he mentions). And it was a Baskin-Robbins forty-two flavors of shit. Catwoman doubly so. Both suffered from terrible writing, bad acting, etc.
Considering Captain Marvel is in the planning/pre-production/production(?) stages, it'd make sense for them to refer back to the shitty superheroine movies of the past if for no other reason than to attempt and avoid their mistakes.

And yet the failures of Green Lantern, Daredevil, and Batman And Robin weren't seen as a sign that male-led superhero movies weren't profitable. In fact, the stars of the first two are getting chances to play different heroes, with the star of the second playing the main character of the third in a new film.

Except those movies DID get referenced as failures and such. As evidenced by the sharp decline in superhero movies in '97-'07. Movie companies didn't take any 'risks' with them and largely stayed away (with some, shitty, exceptions)
They probably did get referenced a good deal when superhero movies were making a big comeback. Daredevil and Batman and Robin (which wasn't actually a flop economically, just a bad movie) heralded a near-end in superhero film production for YEARS and those that did come around would be generally regarded as sucky cash-grabs (Catwoman, and Electra being relevant examples since they came out in that graveyard 'decade' or so for superhero films of '97-07). In fact, it took Marvel's Iron Man (moreso 'Batman Begins' I suppose since it came out first) film to 'prove' superhero movies were viable again, and didn't necessarily have to suffer from the same 'shit-to-screen' formula of previous comic-book films.
Green Lantern stopped DC in their tracks with regards to their plans for their own line of multiple superhero films (hence why we see them now cramming everyone into Batman V Superman for cameo appearances). We don't have access to their communications, but I'd imagine that yes, they did refer to it when planning the marketing and production of future films (Dark Knight Rises was probably already close to done, but Man of Steel probably saw them refer to it).

Who starred in the film is rather irrelevant (though one might note that Marvel didn't go back to Affleck for any roles, and he played center-stage in the shitty 'Daredevil' film). This email isn't evidence of some vast, anti-woman conspiracy. Hell, if anything it's evidence of Marvel wanting to make sure their female-headlined superhero movie doesn't suffer from the same shittiness previous ones have, either due to their bad writing, acting or marketing.

[Tierra Prime]

Sorry, did you seriously just argue Hasbro has a problem with toy lines and female characters?
...
I... I don't know what to say.

Look, this is pretty bullshit i'll admit, but let's not go overboard.
I'd be willing to bet this is an example of the toy-gender line shit rearing its head again.

"Action figures? Well, it's a boys market."
Is that shitty? Absolutely.

So what needs to happen is a visible movement of girls and adult women going out and getting obsessed with action figures, to show there is a market and they actually give a shit.
At that point the company will start making a point of including them in their market analysis and may even start actively aiming at them in order to fill a niche in the market where they will be unopposed.

But fuck, like that would ever happen, right?

Or we could go the usual SJW route of just complaining and calling them shitlords.

It could even be in reaction to the SJW flip-shitting about Black Widow being a terrible example of women in media (Because the beast is insatiable. There is no pleasing them.) and Hasbro deciding to Unperson her in order to kowtow to the backlash.

For the very first time I have to agree with an MRA.
Asking for the removal of an evil woman character is asking for privilege, not for equality.
Also, asking for removal of an evil woman character is hurting women, so its effect it's inherently misogynist: indeed, now young girls have just only Barbie, and the ones who asked for privilege are taking the opposite, they're exactly reinforcing old gender stereotypes.

I can't even... The brainwashing is strong with this one...

[Yumyumsuppertime]

He's backing off from Marvel, and moving on to other projects. Besides, after getting so badly burned on Wonder Woman (seriously, it took THIS LONG for the studios to come up with a movie starring the most famous comic book superheroine of ALL TIME?), I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't want to play the role of the "man who can write strong women" for a while.

Wonder Woman comes with a lot of problems of its own, the cross-pantheon, the Nu52 wanging the old continuities, and America's fascination with fucking romance B-plots in everything have salted that earth something fierce.

The other swelling force is that DC abhors the terms under which it owns the license.

1. The writer can go into that as much or as little as he or she pleases.

2. Movies are their own continuity. With W.W., you can actually pick whichever origin works best for the story.

3. Steve Trevor. Like so (No, I'm not actually suggesting that interpretation of the character. I just love that cold open).

4. Yeah, that's an issue.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

And yet the failures of Green Lantern, Daredevil, and Batman And Robin weren't seen as a sign that male-led superhero movies weren't profitable. In fact, the stars of the first two are getting chances to play different heroes, with the star of the second playing the main character of the third in a new film.

Except those movies DID get referenced as failures and such. As evidenced by the sharp decline in superhero movies in '97-'07. Movie companies didn't take any 'risks' with them and largely stayed away (with some, shitty, exceptions)
They probably did get referenced a good deal when superhero movies were making a big comeback. Daredevil and Batman and Robin (which wasn't actually a flop economically, just a bad movie) heralded a near-end in superhero film production for YEARS and those that did come around would be generally regarded as sucky cash-grabs (Catwoman, and Electra being relevant examples since they came out in that graveyard 'decade' or so for superhero films of '97-07). In fact, it took Marvel's Iron Man film to 'prove' superhero movies were viable again, and didn't necessarily have to suffer from the same 'shit-to-screen' formula of previous comic-book films.
Green Lantern stopped DC in their tracks with regards to their plans for their own line of multiple superhero films (hence why we see them now cramming everyone into Batman V Superman for cameo appearances). We don't have access to their communications, but I'd imagine that yes, they did refer to it when planning the marketing and production of future films (Dark Knight Rises was probably already close to done, but Man of Steel probably saw them refer to it).

Who starred in the film is rather irrelevant (though one might note that Marvel didn't go back to Affleck for any roles, and he played center-stage in the shitty 'Daredevil' film). This email isn't evidence of some vast, anti-woman conspiracy. Hell, if anything it's evidence of Marvel wanting to make sure their female-headlined superhero movie doesn't suffer from the same shittiness previous ones have, either due to their bad writing, acting or marketing.

They pulled back from making superhero movies, but what I'm saying is that they didn't point out the gender of the characters as being an issue.

Okay, let me be perfectly clear: I am not saying that there is a vast anti-woman conspiracy. I have never stated such. I have never even implied as much. I have actually specifically stated that I do not think that there is such a thing. The problems have to do with unspoken assumptions and cultural biases that inform our opinions, perceptions, and decisions, not any ridiculous conscious plans.

[Tierra Prime]

You'd be surprised by the power a toy can have. Think of what you did as a child, and how it affected your life. I used to play with Lego castles, and now I play Minecraft and The Elder Scrolls...

I used to play with Unicron but I don't eat planets.