Hasbro Toy Erases Black Widow From Her Own Scene

[Nazi Flower Power]

I don't think this is a huge issue, but if you think the toy is sending the wrong message, then you don't have to buy it.

I think that it's established that I won't be. I also wrote a letter to the company. In addition, I'm publicizing the issues that I have with this online, and discussing their relevance and import in a forum that was set up to address issues of cultural and political significance both large and small.

If you have any further suggestions, I'm all ears.

No, I think you've done your part to address this.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

I think that it's established that I won't be. I also wrote a letter to the company. In addition, I'm publicizing the issues that I have with this online, and discussing their relevance and import in a forum that was set up to address issues of cultural and political significance both large and small.

If you have any further suggestions, I'm all ears.

No, I think you've done your part to address this.

Thanks, but I think that continuing to address this is an ongoing issue.

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

True, but what does removing the character from the equipment that was pivotal to the scene, and putting another character in her place do in terms of a message sent? Note that I'm not asking whether or not Hasbro has to worry about said message--they do in my estimation, but that's another point entirely--but what message is there, if any?

Just thinking about it from the perspective of s kid who might want to play with the toy, I'm just thinking that I generally wouldn't want Black Widow to permanently be on Cap's bike, as outside of a very particular set of circumstances, it doesn't make much sense.

Though it would have been pretty awesome to have two figures that could go on the bike.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

True, but what does removing the character from the equipment that was pivotal to the scene, and putting another character in her place do in terms of a message sent? Note that I'm not asking whether or not Hasbro has to worry about said message--they do in my estimation, but that's another point entirely--but what message is there, if any?

Just thinking about it from the perspective of s kid who might want to play with the toy, I'm just thinking that I generally wouldn't want Black Widow to permanently be on Cap's bike, as outside of a very particular set of circumstances, it doesn't make much sense.

Though it would have been pretty awesome to have two figures that could go on the bike.

Hey, I'd be good with a bike that could fit any of the characters, or different Cap and Widow bikes.

[Agritum]

True, but what does removing the character from the equipment that was pivotal to the scene, and putting another character in her place do in terms of a message sent? Note that I'm not asking whether or not Hasbro has to worry about said message--they do in my estimation, but that's another point entirely--but what message is there, if any?

Just thinking about it from the perspective of s kid who might want to play with the toy, I'm just thinking that I generally wouldn't want Black Widow to permanently be on Cap's bike, as outside of a very particular set of circumstances, it doesn't make much sense.

Though it would have been pretty awesome to have two figures that could go on the bike.

Hasbro is stupid at making toys, basically.

A separate BW figure with her own bike would have granted even more earnings, given how popular the character is.

[Nazi Flower Power]

No, I think you've done your part to address this.

Thanks, but I think that continuing to address this is an ongoing issue.

That explains why you keep posting.

That might sound snarkier than the way I mean it; I'm just not sure what else to say... I mean, you have every right to tell the company and NSG how you feel. I just don't quite follow the logic behind it.

It's not that gender stereotypes in toy design aren't worth talking about. I just don't see this as a particularly egregious example.

Just thinking about it from the perspective of s kid who might want to play with the toy, I'm just thinking that I generally wouldn't want Black Widow to permanently be on Cap's bike, as outside of a very particular set of circumstances, it doesn't make much sense.

Though it would have been pretty awesome to have two figures that could go on the bike.

Hey, I'd be good with a bike that could fit any of the characters, or different Cap and Widow bikes.

Having a bike that you could use with any of the characters would make the most sense if they wanted to make it so you could act out that scene with Black Widow.

[Tahar Joblis]

But you aren't you presupposing that marvel/disney whoever is supposed to market to girls? I am seriously asking here, because it seems to me there priority is to the bottom line and shareholders. I mean they have a legal obligation to maximize profits. Now, ok maybe you can say that they are in error and would make more money aiming products at boys and girls equally, but I haven't seen that point really be firmly assert and supported with evidence as yet.

How does marketing to only 50% of children maximize their profits?

First, not all girls are going to look at "boy" marketing and say "eww," so you're really still marketing to something like 60% of children when you target just boys or just girls.

Second, children respond strongly to targeted marketing. This is actually more pronounced with girls than boys, and it's also quite pronounced with adult women. If you market something as "girly," you can charge a premium price for it, even when you're really talking about essentially the exact same product. Your peers are fond of calling this a "women's tax," because many of them simply don't buy equivalent (and cheaper) products marketed to men (for whatever reason preferring to continue to buy more expensive razors, shampoo, conditioner, deoderant, etc when the majority of the difference is feminine packaging), but the basic take-away is that targeted marketing works. People respond to more narrowly targeted advertising more strongly.

There are very few products that try to market to everyone.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Thanks, but I think that continuing to address this is an ongoing issue.

That explains why you keep posting.

That might sound snarkier than the way I mean it; I'm just not sure what else to say... I mean, you have every right to tell the company and NSG how you feel. I just don't quite follow the logic behind it.

It's not that gender stereotypes in toy design aren't worth talking about. I just don't see this as a particularly egregious example.

I'd see it as minor if it weren't part of what could easily be considered a larger pattern.

Having a bike that you could use with any of the characters would make the most sense if they wanted to make it so you could act out that scene with Black Widow.

That's actually the last of the combinations that would make any narrative sense to me, but I would actually deal with it just so that all children could play that character doing all of the things that she is so fantastic at doing. Even if it means saying "We can't have her doing that unless we show that all of the men can do the same thing", then fine, whatever. Other people will likely have different opinions, but I'm tired.

[Nazi Flower Power]

That explains why you keep posting.

That might sound snarkier than the way I mean it; I'm just not sure what else to say... I mean, you have every right to tell the company and NSG how you feel. I just don't quite follow the logic behind it.

It's not that gender stereotypes in toy design aren't worth talking about. I just don't see this as a particularly egregious example.

I'd see it as minor if it weren't part of what could easily be considered a larger pattern.

OK, that seems like more of a problem.

Having a bike that you could use with any of the characters would make the most sense if they wanted to make it so you could act out that scene with Black Widow.

That's actually the last of the combinations that would make any narrative sense to me, but I would actually deal with it just so that all children could play that character doing all of the things that she is so fantastic at doing. Even if it means saying "We can't have her doing that unless we show that all of the men can do the same thing", then fine, whatever. Other people will likely have different opinions, but I'm tired.

It's not her bike, so it doesn't make sense to make it specifically hers in the toys. But making a more versatile toy set is a good thing both from the gender-issues point of view and in that it promotes creativity if kids have the freedom to make their own stories using any character in any role.

[Tahar Joblis]

That explains why you keep posting.

That might sound snarkier than the way I mean it; I'm just not sure what else to say... I mean, you have every right to tell the company and NSG how you feel. I just don't quite follow the logic behind it.

It's not that gender stereotypes in toy design aren't worth talking about. I just don't see this as a particularly egregious example.

I'd see it as minor if it weren't part of what could easily be considered a larger pattern.

Why, exactly, should I take this article's second-hand anecdotes as a reliable representation of what's going on... or as a reflection of what Disney / Marvel are doing, rather than what one particular Target in one particular person's local area does in terms of shelving practice? It's an article whose main source is some other random blog and people griping on Twitter.

In the next few minutes, I'm going to do more research than Kuchera did in writing that article. I'm going to actually look at Amazon.com's listings using the search tool. I see 253 entries on Amazon.com for "Black Widow" under Action Figures. Narrowing it down, we have 120 for the search string avengers "black widow". Bringing it down to movie related merch with Avengers "black widow" Ultron gives 38.

Avengers Ultron is 243 hits total. Of the figures that show up on posters etc, using that refinement technique:

• Iron Man: 120
• Captain America: 106
• Hulk: 102
• Thor: 74
• Vision: 50
• Hawkeye: 40
• Black Widow: 38
• Scarlet Witch: 30
• Nick Fury: 29
• Quicksilver: 22

Ultron himself shows up on posters as well. Unfortunately, this technique doesn't pick him up, but as you might guess from the totals above, he doesn't actually feature particularly prominently. Contrary to the article's claim:

According to this blog post there is only one character less represented at retail and she's, of course, the Scarlet Witch.

... looks like Nick Fury and Quicksilver got less. Along with possibly Ultron himself. And Hawkeye was identical to Black Widow, to the precision of this measurement technique. And Vision, in spite of having an incredibly distinctive appearance, didn't rank much higher.

This poster has characters portrayed in very different sizes. Funnily enough, the "big" characters are all the big merch characters, and the "little" characters are small merch characters. The movie is, to a large degree, about Hawkeye and Black Widow; but it was sold using Iron Man, Hulk, Captain America, and Thor.

The difference really comes down to this: The big guys are well-known characters with well-known movies of their own, comic book lines, brand identities, toy lines, merchandise lines, etc which are being used to promote the Avengers. "Hey Hulk fans, he's in this movie." "Hey Iron Man fans, he's in this movie." The littler guys? Vision on down to Quicksilver? They're characters most of the audience is being introduced to for the first time by these movies. Black Widow is being promoted by the Avengers movies much more than vice versa.

Tempest in a teapot. When it comes to the Ultron branding cycle, Black Widow toys are out there and being made... and if they sell, they'll make more. If they don't, they won't. It's not some deep devious pattern of ignoring female characters; it's crass commercialism. Disney loves selling female characters. "The Mouse" has a merchandising empire surrounding female characters. Marvel really wants to get women more into comic books.

[Grave_n_idle]

I did think that it looked like she nicked the caps bike for that little scene. Besides, it a toy set, what child takes ethics lessons from lumps of plastic?

All children do. Children are sponges, with poor filtering. They absorb everything and have little capacity to sort what is worthwhile from what is not.

And it's not just children - adults have the same issues although - hopefully - to a lesser extent.

[Turmenista]

My fucking god. not again...

It's just a toy... People are more likely to know who the fuck captain America is rather then someone like Black Widow...

This completely has nothing to do with things such as gender equality or Disney. It's marketing. People know more about captain America than Black Widow's character.

[Dakini]

My fucking god. not again...

It's just a toy... People are more likely to know who the fuck captain America is rather then someone like Black Widow...

This completely has nothing to do with things such as gender equality or Disney. It's marketing. People know more about captain America than Black Widow's character.

I'm pretty sure that everyone who has seen the movies (you know, the movies that this merchandise is for) knows who the Black Widow is...

[Grave_n_idle]

My fucking god. not again...

It's just a toy... People are more likely to know who the fuck captain America is rather then someone like Black Widow...

This completely has nothing to do with things such as gender equality or Disney. It's marketing. People know more about captain America than Black Widow's character.

People are more likely to know who Superman is than they are to know who Captain America is. Therefore, by your logic, Captain America toys should actually be Superman toys.

Your're right that it has very little to do with gender equality - but that wasn't the objection. The objection was that a toy corresponding to a particular scene in a movie lacks an association (in the toys) to the character relevant to the scene. Now, maybe that's because Black Widow is not as well known as Captain America - but even that would be an example of a toy producer missing an opportunity to actually have a relevant female figure in the toy range.

But I don't buy that explanation, anyway. Black Widow is arguably more well known than Ant Man, for example (if only because of her presence in the previous Avenger movie and Iron Man franchise) - but I've already seen Ant Man toys, and his movie isn't even out, yet.7

And the fact that the advertising directly links the toy to the scene with Black Widow in it - but then presents it as a Captain America toy - means Hasbro made a deliberate decision to excise a female hero and make a toy that doesn't link directly to the movie in that way.

[DBJ]

Oh, no. Patriarchy strikes again! Damn you white, straight, cisgender man. Check your privilege!

[Infected Mushroom]

It's not an issue.

Captain America on a motorbike (the blue contrast against the bike with his catchy shield) just makes for a better toy. Its better eye candy.

[Nag Ehgoeg]

Two questions:

1. Is it ok for boys to play with Barbies?
2. Are you aware of the Marvel Secret Wars line of 1984?

*****

The genitals you possess have no bearing on the toys you should play with. It's ok for girls to play with Captain America dolls.

Marvel has a terrible track record for matching merchandise with storyline. This is not a gender issue, it's a marketing one.

[Edit]

Tempest in a teapot. When it comes to the Ultron branding cycle, Black Widow toys are out there and being made... and if they sell, they'll make more. If they don't, they won't. It's not some deep devious pattern of ignoring female characters; it's crass commercialism. Disney loves selling female characters. "The Mouse" has a merchandising empire surrounding female characters. Marvel really wants to get women more into comic books.

This. This guy gets it.

[Grave_n_idle]

It's not an issue.

Captain America on a motorbike (the blue contrast against the bike with his catchy shield) just makes for a better toy. Its better eye candy.

And again, that's a nonsense explanation. Both Spiderman and Iron Man have more recognisable (and popular) costumes - but aren't paired with the product. You can make the same colour-match argument for a number of other heroes - from Daredevil to Thor - but it's only Captain America they made the link to.

[Grave_n_idle]

Two questions:

1. Is it ok for boys to play with Barbies?
2. Are you aware of the Marvel Secret Wars line of 1984?

*****

The genitals you possess have no bearing on the toys you should play with. It's ok for girls to play with Captain America dolls.

Marvel has a terrible track record for matching merchandise with storyline. This is not a gender issue, it's a marketing one.

Its possible to be both.

[Wulfenia]

Most insignificant thing to make a topic about ever.

[Cyrisnia]

Most insignificant thing to make a topic about ever.

welcome to NSG


im satan, ill give you a tour

[Grave_n_idle]

Most insignificant thing to make a topic about ever.

There was a thread about Iced Tea.

[Dakini]

Most insignificant thing to make a topic about ever.

Fucking seriously? There was a goddamned thread about Chuck E. Cheese this week.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Most insignificant thing to make a topic about ever.

Fucking seriously? There was a goddamned thread about Chuck E. Cheese this week.

Don't forget all the thinly-veiled "what would you do if you were x character from Game of Thrones in y situation that happened on an episode I just watched?" threads.

[Dakini]

Fucking seriously? There was a goddamned thread about Chuck E. Cheese this week.

Don't forget all the thinly-veiled "what would you do if you were x character from Game of Thrones in y situation that happened on an episode I just watched?" threads.

omg, don't even get me started on that series of threads. I suspect that 99% of the threads by that same author (of which there are far too many) are less significant than this thread.