Hasbro Toy Erases Black Widow From Her Own Scene

[Worldly Philosophers]

I think this has more to do with the fact that Hawkeye and Black Widow....kinda suck. I mean they don't have any superpowers and their uniforms are boring, generic military style suits. Hawkeye uses a bow and arrow in a world of machine guns and missiles. Black Widow is just an "action girl" we've all seen a million times in so many spy and action movies. Her most interesting weapon is a pistol.

Captain America has on the other hand a cool, brightly-colored uniform. He has a cool weapon (indestructible shield) and he has genuine superpowers.

[Llamalandia]

As I pointed out earlier that display which so upset authorsname by his own admission also excludes Hawkeye. The display included four characters who have all had their own movies and cemented place in pop culture and excluded two who didnt. Even though gender obviously couldn't explain both removals they decided sexism got rid of black widow and ignored hawkeye.

Yes, Hawkeye wasn't in that scene, so he's a bad example to use.

See to me again, not to be dismissive, but this really seems like an intrauniverse issue. I mean for fans, I can see ok, I;m mildly annoyed they screwed that or haha they got that scene totally wrong. It is like how star wars fans are upset that the dvd release has the prequel actor doing the voice of Boba Fett and they removed the original actor from the credits. HonestlyI barely even noticed and I am pretty into Star wars. I am pretty sure this wasn't a deliberate slight to the original actor though. Lucas in his "infinite wisdom" decided to "enhance" a re-release with greater in-universe continuity ok annoying kinda, but not deliberate nor is it really going to irreparably damaged the original actors legacy. It is an intrauniverse issue for star wars fans sure, but not really illustrative of much more than that. Likewise, Leia's gold bikini (which was actually originally carrie fisher's idea apparently) wasn't antifeminist, it was just to make sure that guys were buying tickets and keeping the money flowing. (not that RoJ isn't awesome but clearly they didn't want to take chances). Hey sex sells. Again many feminists try to make it an issue, but really even as ridiculous as it looks today it really never was nor should it be a feminist issue.
Besides and more back on point, shouldn't it be how she is portrayed in the movie that is more important anyway? I mean I am surprise she wasn't more sexualized to be honest.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

I'd like to see those studies.

Yeah me too if I look them up Ill pass along some links.

Scratch that here is Huffpo. Not my favorite source but I should be able to avoid any "rightwing bias" charges on this one.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/2 ... 27727.html

Are the studies perfect no of course not. Nor is it a simulation of a toy store with more cognitively developed human children, but basically it reinforces essential difference arguments based on hormones.

But like I said, I am not taking this to be entirely dispositive. Just a pointer of sorts.

That is interesting. However, as you stated, the implications as they relate to this particular topic are uncertain at best.

[Kaboomlandia]

I think this has more to do with the fact that Hawkeye and Black Widow....kinda suck. I mean they don't have any superpowers and their uniforms are boring, generic military style suits. Hawkeye uses a bow and arrow in a world of machine guns and missiles. Black Widow is just an "action girl" we've all seen a million times in so many spy and action movies. Her most interesting weapon is a pistol.

Hawkeye has some pretty good shooting, and Black Widow's just badass.

Captain America has on the other hand a cool, brightly-colored uniform. He has a cool weapon (indestructible shield) and he has genuine superpowers.

So does the Hulk. He's also got superpowers.

[Llamalandia]

I honestly know next to nothing about the show to be honest. Probably. I mean I understand it has been on or off and on? since like the eighties right? So I am sure at some point in the show there probably was. Though I could be wrong I confess.

Most bronies only care about the recent series, Friendship is Magic.

FIM has some rather popular male characters, including Spike, Applejack's brother Big McIntosh, and Twilight's brother Shining Armor, among others.

The story is centered around the females, but the male characters feature prominently in several episodes.

Ah thank you, so I guess the question is are they all properly represented in plastictoy form? I don't know I am just asking and thanks for the info.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

You think that she's not marketable despite playing a major role in both Avengers movies? That's...interesting. I'll absolutely admit that Captain America is better known, but Black Widow appeals to a whole different audience.

Maybe I could put it a better way: in that situation, she would not be the best marketing choice. She's not exactly the "star" of the movie; it's like how, when you think of Batman, you don't think of Commissioner Gordon. Awesome he may be, he's not well-known enough in the public eye to make the best number of monies from the least number of toys.

I'm sure we'll see some Black Widow action figures in the future, but not in one of the movie's most iconic scenes.

Vroom.

Even if she was the star of that scene? I suspect that Black Widow may be very marketable to a whole new audience.

[Salus Maior]

The thing is that the whole motorcycle deal is really Capt.America's thing.

Anyway, regardless, it's a toy. Who cares?

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Maybe I could put it a better way: in that situation, she would not be the best marketing choice. She's not exactly the "star" of the movie; it's like how, when you think of Batman, you don't think of Commissioner Gordon. Awesome he may be, he's not well-known enough in the public eye to make the best number of monies from the least number of toys.

I'm sure we'll see some Black Widow action figures in the future, but not in one of the movie's most iconic scenes.

Vroom.

Also it's not her bike.

Imagine there's a single scene in the movie where Comissioner Gordon drives the batmobile but the batmobile toy comes with the batman action figure. Does anybody care?

Right, you just enjoy the merry-go-round. I got over those when I was eight. Time to find a different ride.

[The Black Forrest]

Because of a toy?

Amongst other things, yes.

Christ, even the director of the movie in question has gone on record to say that the problems with female superheroes getting onto the big screen is rooted in sexism within the industry. And then you get things like this on top.

Well? I don't know about now but you go back in time and the readership was 99.9 percent male. Girls just weren't interested in comic books.

So that legacy can be argued.

Has times changed? Probably. Somebody needs to present a good story line for the women.

Problem is businessmen are calling the shots and then tend to go for the easy sale.

[Zeinbrad]

Sorry, did you seriously just argue Hasbro has a problem with toy lines and female characters?
...
I... I don't know what to say.

Look, this is pretty bullshit i'll admit, but let's not go overboard.
I'd be willing to bet this is an example of the toy-gender line shit rearing its head again.

"Action figures? Well, it's a boys market."
Is that shitty? Absolutely.

So what needs to happen is a visible movement of girls and adult women going out and getting obsessed with action figures, to show there is a market and they actually give a shit.
At that point the company will start making a point of including them in their market analysis and may even start actively aiming at them in order to fill a niche in the market where they will be unopposed.

But fuck, like that would ever happen, right?

Or we could go the usual SJW route of just complaining and calling them shitlords.

It could even be in reaction to the SJW flip-shitting about Black Widow being a terrible example of women in media (Because the beast is insatiable. There is no pleasing them.) and Hasbro deciding to Unperson her in order to kowtow to the backlash.

For the very first time I have to agree with an MRA.
Asking for the removal of an evil woman character is asking for privilege, not for equality.
Also, asking for removal of an evil woman character is hurting women, so its effect it's inherently misogynist: indeed, now young girls have just only Barbie, and the ones who asked for privilege are taking the opposite, they're exactly reinforcing old gender stereotypes.

Black Widow is a good guy, evident by the fact that she is in every avenger movie alongside the avengers.

[Llamalandia]

I think this has more to do with the fact that Hawkeye and Black Widow....kinda suck. I mean they don't have any superpowers and their uniforms are boring, generic military style suits. Hawkeye uses a bow and arrow in a world of machine guns and missiles. Black Widow is just an "action girl" we've all seen a million times in so many spy and action movies. Her most interesting weapon is a pistol.

Hawkeye has some pretty good shooting, and Black Widow's just badass.

Captain America has on the other hand a cool, brightly-colored uniform. He has a cool weapon (indestructible shield) and he has genuine superpowers.

So does the Hulk. He's also got superpowers.

I don't know hawkeye seems to be the most parodied character though that may have been from before the movies came out. I think Black widow is probably more popular than him but certainly not nearly as popular as captain american. She does seem to have a bit of that generic action girl vibe, but honestly I am just not familiar enough with her character. Has she had a movie of here own. I know what Capt. America has a couple I think? The hulk as one recently plus the old tv show. Iron man had like 3 movies and thor had what a couple? I know hawkeye doesn't have any specifically centered on him and I am not aware of any black widow movies.

[Sverszmark]

I imagine children don't care much for toys being accurate to the scenes with which they correspond in the movies they are based off of. If this were marketed to adults it'd be a different story, but this is a kid's toy. Kids are more likely to ask their parents for a Captain America toy than a Black Widow toy, parents are more likely to buy their kids a Captain America toy than a Black Widow toy, it only makes sense to put more popular characters into toy sets that include other items like quinjets and motorcycles and put the less popular characters as individual toys or into cheaper toy packages. Corporations are profit-driven, so I don't know what else you'd expect.

[Llamalandia]

For the very first time I have to agree with an MRA.
Asking for the removal of an evil woman character is asking for privilege, not for equality.
Also, asking for removal of an evil woman character is hurting women, so its effect it's inherently misogynist: indeed, now young girls have just only Barbie, and the ones who asked for privilege are taking the opposite, they're exactly reinforcing old gender stereotypes.

Black Widow is a good guy, evident by the fact that she is in every avenger movie alongside the avengers.

Ok, first off you called her a "good guy" second, yeah, but how many parent how many grandparents know that? I mean keep in mind the toy buyers are not always the same as the movie goers. It is especially complicated as children generally aren't buying the toys directly, teens maybe but not like 8 year olds usually. they are usually bought by parents or given as presents.

[Zeinbrad]

Why does Captain America on a bike sell but not Black Widow on a bike? Or rather, why do the people who make these toys believe that to be the case?

Because Captain America is a bigger name.

I think Hasbro has made action figures for obscure characters, in fact, I think they made one of bob from that one batman movie.

[The Black Forrest]

This isn't a plot by misogynist toy marketers......They produce what sells, its as simple as that.

Why does Captain America on a bike sell but not Black Widow on a bike? Or rather, why do the people who make these toys believe that to be the case?

Sales numbers? Projections?

[Zeinbrad]

Black Widow is a good guy, evident by the fact that she is in every avenger movie alongside the avengers.

Ok, first off you called her a "good guy" second, yeah, but how many parent how many grandparents know that? I mean keep in mind the toy buyers are not always the same as the movie goers. It is especially complicated as children generally aren't buying the toys directly, teens maybe but not like 8 year olds usually. they are usually bought by parents or given as presents.

Yes, I did, sue me.

This is meant for the Black Widow from the movie, not from the comics or other media. I'm pretty sure they have made action figures for alternate universe characters with no problem. Why is Black Widow different?

[Kaboomlandia]

Hawkeye has some pretty good shooting, and Black Widow's just badass.


So does the Hulk. He's also got superpowers.

I don't know hawkeye seems to be the most parodied character though that may have been from before the movies came out. I think Black widow is probably more popular than him but certainly not nearly as popular as captain american. She does seem to have a bit of that generic action girl vibe, but honestly I am just not familiar enough with her character. Has she had a movie of here own. I know what Capt. America has a couple I think? The hulk as one recently plus the old tv show. Iron man had like 3 movies and thor had what a couple? I know hawkeye doesn't have any specifically centered on him and I am not aware of any black widow movies.

Captain America: 2, another coming 2016
Thor: 2, another coming 2017
Iron Man: 3
Hulk: 1

Black Widow: Iron Man 2, Avengers (both), Captain America: Civil War

[Fartsniffage]

Amongst other things, yes.

Christ, even the director of the movie in question has gone on record to say that the problems with female superheroes getting onto the big screen is rooted in sexism within the industry. And then you get things like this on top.

Well? I don't know about now but you go back in time and the readership was 99.9 percent male. Girls just weren't interested in comic books.

So that legacy can be argued.

Has times changed? Probably. Somebody needs to present a good story line for the women.

Problem is businessmen are calling the shots and then tend to go for the easy sale.

The viewship of the newer Marvel movies at the theatre is over 40% female. Doesn't seem like a massive stretch to think they might we will to part with some readies to buy some of the merchandise as well.

The viewership of Mockingbird was more than 50% female. Women are into these kinds of films.

[Salus Maior]

I don't know hawkeye seems to be the most parodied character though that may have been from before the movies came out. I think Black widow is probably more popular than him but certainly not nearly as popular as captain american. She does seem to have a bit of that generic action girl vibe, but honestly I am just not familiar enough with her character. Has she had a movie of here own. I know what Capt. America has a couple I think? The hulk as one recently plus the old tv show. Iron man had like 3 movies and thor had what a couple? I know hawkeye doesn't have any specifically centered on him and I am not aware of any black widow movies.

Captain America: 2, another coming 2016
Thor: 2, another coming 2017
Iron Man: 3
Hulk: 1

Black Widow: Iron Man 2, Avengers (both), Captain America: Civil War

Hawkeye doesn't have his own movie either.

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

Ah thank you, so I guess the question is are they all properly represented in plastictoy form? I don't know I am just asking and thanks for the info.

Not as much as we'd like, at least officially. Then again, they also rendered Princess Celestia, basically the immortal god-empress of ponykind, who in the show looks like this:

As this:

So they've sinned against both sides, really.

[The Black Forrest]

I don't know hawkeye seems to be the most parodied character though that may have been from before the movies came out. I think Black widow is probably more popular than him but certainly not nearly as popular as captain american. She does seem to have a bit of that generic action girl vibe, but honestly I am just not familiar enough with her character. Has she had a movie of here own. I know what Capt. America has a couple I think? The hulk as one recently plus the old tv show. Iron man had like 3 movies and thor had what a couple? I know hawkeye doesn't have any specifically centered on him and I am not aware of any black widow movies.

Captain America: 2, another coming 2016
Thor: 2, another coming 2017
Iron Man: 3
Hulk: 1

Black Widow: Iron Man 2, Avengers (both), Captain America: Civil War

A Black Widow movie has been optioned. Scarlett says she would do it. Time will tell.

[Kaboomlandia]

Captain America: 2, another coming 2016
Thor: 2, another coming 2017
Iron Man: 3
Hulk: 1

Black Widow: Iron Man 2, Avengers (both), Captain America: Civil War

Hawkeye doesn't have his own movie either.

Thing is, BW only has gotten side roles in movies. I'm not sure how far they got in discussions for a standalone film for her.

[Zeinbrad]

Captain America: 2, another coming 2016
Thor: 2, another coming 2017
Iron Man: 3
Hulk: 1

Black Widow: Iron Man 2, Avengers (both), Captain America: Civil War

Hawkeye doesn't have his own movie either.

Because no one cares about Hawkeye.

[Salus Maior]

Hawkeye doesn't have his own movie either.

Thing is, BW only has gotten side roles in movies. I'm not sure how far they got in discussions for a standalone film for her.

So? Neither does Hawkeye, or any of the non-superpowered guys who work with the Avengers.

[The Black Forrest]

Hawkeye doesn't have his own movie either.

Because no one cares about Hawkeye.

That's the thing of it. Some characters are great secondary characters.

The Widow was always a great secondary character back in the day.....