LGBT Rights & Issues Thread, V3

[Egoman]

So whites have the right to be racist assholes and deny service to black people? Whatever happened to the Civil Rights Movement?

Yeah. And blacks have the right to do the same.

No.

[Cannabis Islands]

I still see the small desert town scenario to be very far-fetched.

You have clearly never lived in a desert, nor a small town.

I haven't lived in the latter, only the former, but I have visited small towns, and let me tell you, I can definitely see a queerphobic small desert town killing an LGBT person via neglect. When everyone in the town knows you, and they all hate you because you're LGBT, and it's literally impossible to live off the land and moving to another town is infeasible, you are going to die.

But governments would provide basic food, water and shelter to all citizens. I'm a socialist in this matter.

[Egoman]

You have clearly never lived in a desert, nor a small town.

I haven't lived in the latter, only the former, but I have visited small towns, and let me tell you, I can definitely see a queerphobic small desert town killing an LGBT person via neglect. When everyone in the town knows you, and they all hate you because you're LGBT, and it's literally impossible to live off the land and moving to another town is infeasible, you are going to die.

But governments would provide basic food, water and shelter to all citizens. I'm a socialist in this matter.

You're stuck in ideologies, man. Why would government need to do that when there are plenty of people able to pay and needlessly disallowed from trading their money in for food and water in this scenario?

[Cannabis Islands]

But governments would provide basic food, water and shelter to all citizens. I'm a socialist in this matter.

You're stuck in ideologies, man. Why would government need to do that when there are plenty of people able to pay and needlessly disallowed from trading their money in for food and water in this scenario?

Because I'm a socialist. Society should provide basic things for a person to live.

[Egoman]

You're stuck in ideologies, man. Why would government need to do that when there are plenty of people able to pay and needlessly disallowed from trading their money in for food and water in this scenario?

Because I'm a socialist. Society should provide basic things for a person to live.

Sure, but why then let vendors oppress?

[The Flutterlands]

Check out this little nuggets of homosexual bigotry

I think you meant Christian bigotry, seeing as a Christian was being bigoted in that article.

The news article is false ether way.

[Cannabis Islands]

Because I'm a socialist. Society should provide basic things for a person to live.

Sure, but why then let vendors oppress?

Because I believe in private property rights. When I was 18, I was refused service at a tobacco shop from the guy that I bought cigarettes before. He just denied me service because he could. That was his answer. He was being a dick. Business owners have a right to be dicks and and refuse service.

[Keylandia]

A gay baker condemns gays and lesbians forcing Christians to cater their wedding.

I have to say that I'm on the libertarian side on this issue. I do not wish to force a business to cater my wedding if they do not wish to do so. I would not want my wedding cake baked by someone who did not want to do it.

Woahhhh! What?

No, absolutely not. The only people who should be able to deny service would be preachers/pastors/whatever you wanna call them. That's because they would literally have to stand up and bless a wedding that they fundamentally disagree with.

Everyone else, no. Make the fucking cake. This definitely applies to Christians not serving gays, but then it could also be applied to Christians not serving Muslims or Whites not serving Blacks. Or any reversal of those situations. Religious beliefs absolutely do not trump human rights.

I for one would not eat the cake after I knew they didn't want to make it because ew, they probably did a lot of stuff to it that I don't want to know about. But I would sure as hell make them do it. They don't have the right to pick and choose their customers. They own a business that is regulated by the government, therefore they shouldn't be able to discriminate against any group. Period.

[Egoman]

Sure, but why then let vendors oppress?

Because I believe in private property rights. When I was 18, I was refused service at a tobacco shop from the guy that I bought cigarettes before. He just denied me service because he could. That was his answer. He was being a dick. Business owners have a right to be dicks and and refuse service.

Freedom to oppress is not fucking freedom, 'libertarian'.

[Egoman]

A gay baker condemns gays and lesbians forcing Christians to cater their wedding.

I have to say that I'm on the libertarian side on this issue. I do not wish to force a business to cater my wedding if they do not wish to do so. I would not want my wedding cake baked by someone who did not want to do it.

Woahhhh! What?

No, absolutely not. The only people who should be able to deny service would be preachers/pastors/whatever you wanna call them. That's because they would literally have to stand up and bless a wedding that they fundamentally disagree with.

Everyone else, no. Make the fucking cake. This definitely applies to Christians not serving gays, but then it could also be applied to Christians not serving Muslims or Whites not serving Blacks. Or any reversal of those situations. Religious beliefs absolutely do not trump human rights.

I for one would not eat the cake after I knew they didn't want to make it because ew, they probably did a lot of stuff to it that I don't want to know about. But I would sure as hell make them do it. They don't have the right to pick and choose their customers. They own a business that is regulated by the government, therefore they shouldn't be able to discriminate against any group. Period.

I would love a Mohammed cartoon cake from a Muslim bakery. That would stir some panties.

[Cannabis Islands]

A gay baker condemns gays and lesbians forcing Christians to cater their wedding.

I have to say that I'm on the libertarian side on this issue. I do not wish to force a business to cater my wedding if they do not wish to do so. I would not want my wedding cake baked by someone who did not want to do it.

Woahhhh! What?

No, absolutely not. The only people who should be able to deny service would be preachers/pastors/whatever you wanna call them. That's because they would literally have to stand up and bless a wedding that they fundamentally disagree with.

Everyone else, no. Make the fucking cake. This definitely applies to Christians not serving gays, but then it could also be applied to Christians not serving Muslims or Whites not serving Blacks. Or any reversal of those situations. Religious beliefs absolutely do not trump human rights.

I for one would not eat the cake after I knew they didn't want to make it because ew, they probably did a lot of stuff to it that I don't want to know about. But I would sure as hell make them do it. They don't have the right to pick and choose their customers. They own a business that is regulated by the government, therefore they shouldn't be able to discriminate against any group. Period.

Again, I would disagree and called being served at a private business a "human right". And I would believe any business does have the right to pick and choose customers. If they had to serve every person that came in, what about unruly people? What about restaurants with the dress codes?

[Cannabis Islands]

Because I believe in private property rights. When I was 18, I was refused service at a tobacco shop from the guy that I bought cigarettes before. He just denied me service because he could. That was his answer. He was being a dick. Business owners have a right to be dicks and and refuse service.

Freedom to oppress is not fucking freedom, 'libertarian'.

I don't see being denied service from a private establishment is a form of oppression.

[Egoman]

Freedom to oppress is not fucking freedom, 'libertarian'.

I don't be denied service from a private establishment is a form of oppression.

For no reason, sure it is.

[The Flutterlands]

My problem is that I can perfectly see these people who deny service to gay people going completely apeshit if the tabels were turned on them. They're okay with discriminating others but once they get discriminated they become like howling wolves.

[Cannabis Islands]

I don't be denied service from a private establishment is a form of oppression.

For no reason, sure it is.

Governments denying rights to citizens is a form of oppression. Police brutality is a form oppression. Forced segregation is a form of oppression. Being denied service at a private establishment is not a form of oppression.

[Cannabis Islands]

My problem is that I can perfectly see these people who deny service to gay people going completely apeshit if the tabels were turned on them. They're okay with discriminating others but once they get discriminated they become like howling wolves.

I would agree with that. The Christian right seems to enjoys this double standard. They are protected by federal civil right law while LGBT people are not.

[Keylandia]

Woahhhh! What?

No, absolutely not. The only people who should be able to deny service would be preachers/pastors/whatever you wanna call them. That's because they would literally have to stand up and bless a wedding that they fundamentally disagree with.

Everyone else, no. Make the fucking cake. This definitely applies to Christians not serving gays, but then it could also be applied to Christians not serving Muslims or Whites not serving Blacks. Or any reversal of those situations. Religious beliefs absolutely do not trump human rights.

I for one would not eat the cake after I knew they didn't want to make it because ew, they probably did a lot of stuff to it that I don't want to know about. But I would sure as hell make them do it. They don't have the right to pick and choose their customers. They own a business that is regulated by the government, therefore they shouldn't be able to discriminate against any group. Period.

Again, I would disagree and called being served at a private business a "human right". And I would believe any business does have the right to pick and choose customers. If they had to serve every person that came in, what about unruly people? What about restaurants with the dress codes?

I'm not saying being served is a human right, I'm saying not being discriminated against is a human right. No one deserves to be looked at differently because the other person disagrees with their lifestyle or religious beliefs or anything else.

Being unruly, totally different. They are disturbing the peace and therefore actually breaking a law and the police should be involved to kindly escort them out. Being gay or black or muslim is not breaking a fucking law. As far as dress codes go, so??? People can go out and by clothes to eat in a snobby restaurant. And if you can't afford the clothes you probably can't afford the food either so that's not the same argument. They arent saying "only Christians can come here AND they have to follow dress code." They say everyone can come here just follow the dress code.

[Keylandia]

For no reason, sure it is.

Governments denying rights to citizens is a form of oppression. Police brutality is a form oppression. Forced segregation is a form of oppression. Being denied service at a private establishment is not a form of oppression.

YES IT IS! We all have a right to spend our money on the goods and services that we want, where we want them! No one gets to tell me I can't have a cake from a fucking bakery because the owners are bigots. It's not right and it's discrimination. If these people arent comfortable serving those who are different from them then they shouldn't be in business.

[The Flutterlands]

My problem is that I can perfectly see these people who deny service to gay people going completely apeshit if the tabels were turned on them. They're okay with discriminating others but once they get discriminated they become like howling wolves.

I would agree with that. The Christian right seems to enjoys this double standard. They are protected by federal civil right law while LGBT people are not.

Besides, Jesus said 'Do to others as you would have them do to you.' Luke 6:31

[Keylandia]

Woahhhh! What?

No, absolutely not. The only people who should be able to deny service would be preachers/pastors/whatever you wanna call them. That's because they would literally have to stand up and bless a wedding that they fundamentally disagree with.

Everyone else, no. Make the fucking cake. This definitely applies to Christians not serving gays, but then it could also be applied to Christians not serving Muslims or Whites not serving Blacks. Or any reversal of those situations. Religious beliefs absolutely do not trump human rights.

I for one would not eat the cake after I knew they didn't want to make it because ew, they probably did a lot of stuff to it that I don't want to know about. But I would sure as hell make them do it. They don't have the right to pick and choose their customers. They own a business that is regulated by the government, therefore they shouldn't be able to discriminate against any group. Period.

I would love a Mohammed cartoon cake from a Muslim bakery. That would stir some panties.

It certainly would be an interesting dilemma, but you know what? They should have to make that cake whether they agreed with it or not. And if they didn't make it then they deserve to be put out of business.

[The Serbian Empire]

Check out this little nugget of news about 'Christain' homophobia at it's finest

Wow, Feuerstein? I didn't think he'd go that far. I just thought he was a Christian dummy on YouTube. Apparently he's also bananas.

And he's transphobic to boot.

[Cannabis Islands]

Again, I would disagree and called being served at a private business a "human right". And I would believe any business does have the right to pick and choose customers. If they had to serve every person that came in, what about unruly people? What about restaurants with the dress codes?

I'm not saying being served is a human right, I'm saying not being discriminated against is a human right. No one deserves to be looked at differently because the other person disagrees with their lifestyle or religious beliefs or anything else.

Being unruly, totally different. They are disturbing the peace and therefore actually breaking a law and the police should be involved to kindly escort them out. Being gay or black or muslim is not breaking a fucking law. As far as dress codes go, so??? People can go out and by clothes to eat in a snobby restaurant. And if you can't afford the clothes you probably can't afford the food either so that's not the same argument. They arent saying "only Christians can come here AND they have to follow dress code." They say everyone can come here just follow the dress code.

And I would agree with you, however I also do believe in private property rights. If a business posted a sign up saying "No gays", I would not go there, even though I can pass.

And there has been a case of putting up a sign of "no gays". The business owner faces repercussions without the State getting involved: http://www.advocate.com/business/2015/0 ... lowed-sign

[Keylandia]

I'm not saying being served is a human right, I'm saying not being discriminated against is a human right. No one deserves to be looked at differently because the other person disagrees with their lifestyle or religious beliefs or anything else.

Being unruly, totally different. They are disturbing the peace and therefore actually breaking a law and the police should be involved to kindly escort them out. Being gay or black or muslim is not breaking a fucking law. As far as dress codes go, so??? People can go out and by clothes to eat in a snobby restaurant. And if you can't afford the clothes you probably can't afford the food either so that's not the same argument. They arent saying "only Christians can come here AND they have to follow dress code." They say everyone can come here just follow the dress code.

And I would agree with you, however I also do believe in private property rights. If a business posted a sign up saying "No gays", I would not go there, even though I can pass.

And there has been a case of putting up a sign of "no gays". The business owner faces repercussions without the State getting involved: http://www.advocate.com/business/2015/0 ... lowed-sign

Well thank goodness even living in the South I've never experienced anything like that, but if I saw a sign saying no gays not only would I go in, I would then proceed to yell about how I like dicks and how hot Jake Gyllenhaal is.

They may "own" their property and their store, but they are a commercial establishment and should serve anyone who walks through that door unless those customers are breaking a law. This isn't their home or a place of worship. You opened the business to make money, take everyone's fucking money and get over yourself.

[Cannabis Islands]

And I would agree with you, however I also do believe in private property rights. If a business posted a sign up saying "No gays", I would not go there, even though I can pass.

And there has been a case of putting up a sign of "no gays". The business owner faces repercussions without the State getting involved: http://www.advocate.com/business/2015/0 ... lowed-sign

Well thank goodness even living in the South I've never experienced anything like that, but if I saw a sign saying no gays not only would I go in, I would then proceed to yell about how I like dicks and how hot Jake Gyllenhaal is.

They may "own" their property and their store, but they are a commercial establishment and should serve anyone who walks through that door unless those customers are breaking a law. This isn't their home or a place of worship. You opened the business to make money, take everyone's fucking money and get over yourself.

So when businesses have signs that say "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason." Are guilty of discrimination?

[Kvatchdom]

The bill denying same-sex marriage in Finland has passed to the parliament, it'll be voted on later.