LGBT Rights & Issues Thread, V3

[Wisconsin9]

That's very open-minded of you, but sadly, your personal desires have nothing to do with the right to access to public accommodations.

But if it was a restaurant refuses to serve a A couple inside the restaurant, that is one thing. However, we are talking about private services, not a public accommodation.

Thank you for the calling me open minded.

Within U.S. law, public accommodations are generally defined as entities, both public and private, that are used by the public. Examples include retail stores, rental establishments and service establishments, as well as educational institutions, recreational facilities and service centers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_accommodations

I'd say that bakeries probably get considered public accommodations as service establishments.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

That's very open-minded of you, but sadly, your personal desires have nothing to do with the right to access to public accommodations.

But if it was a restaurant refuses to serve a A couple inside the restaurant, that is one thing. However, we are talking about private services, not a public accommodation.

Thank you for the calling me open minded.

What if they refused to serve a rehearsal dinner for a gay wedding?

I would have corrected you on the public accommodation thing, but that seems to have been taken care of.

[Cannabis Islands]

But if it was a restaurant refuses to serve a A couple inside the restaurant, that is one thing. However, we are talking about private services, not a public accommodation.

Thank you for the calling me open minded.

What if they refused to serve a rehearsal dinner for a gay wedding?

I would have corrected you on the public accommodation thing, but that seems to have been taken care of.

You're absolutely right that the couples suing the establishments have a legal merit to their claims of discrimination. However, I do not see the reason to force someone to cater their wedding. This appears to be a crusade for social justice and not equal rights. Besides, if I was forced to make a wedding cake against my will, it would be a shitty cake.

[Saint Kitten]

What if they refused to serve a rehearsal dinner for a gay wedding?

I would have corrected you on the public accommodation thing, but that seems to have been taken care of.

You're absolutely right that the couples suing the establishments have a legal merit to their claims of discrimination. However, I do not see the reason to force someone to cater their wedding. This appears to be a crusade for social justice and not equal rights. Besides, if I was forced to make a wedding cake against my will, it would be a shitty cake.

They aren't be forced. They are being paid to do exactly what they said they would do when they opened the business. Is the case about both social justice and equal rights? The argument is "all people should receive a service they are paying for" not just "let gays eat cake."

[Cannabis Islands]

You're absolutely right that the couples suing the establishments have a legal merit to their claims of discrimination. However, I do not see the reason to force someone to cater their wedding. This appears to be a crusade for social justice and not equal rights. Besides, if I was forced to make a wedding cake against my will, it would be a shitty cake.

They aren't be forced. They are being paid to do exactly what they said they would do when they opened the business. Is the case about both social justice and equal rights? The argument is "all people should receive a service they are paying for" not just "let gays eat cake."

There is one thing to take the money and not provide service and there is refusing service and thus payment. I believe that is the majority of cases.

[Nature-Spirits]

A gay baker condemns gays and lesbians forcing Christians to cater their wedding.

I have to say that I'm on the libertarian side on this issue. I do not wish to force a business to cater my wedding if they do not wish to do so. I would not want my wedding cake baked by someone who did not want to do it.

See, I just wouldn't want to support a queerphobic business regardless of the law.

[Saint Kitten]

They aren't be forced. They are being paid to do exactly what they said they would do when they opened the business. Is the case about both social justice and equal rights? The argument is "all people should receive a service they are paying for" not just "let gays eat cake."

There is one thing to take the money and not provide service and there is refusing service – payment. I believe that is the majority of cases.

I probably could've worded that as "they were going to be paid to do exactly what they said..." Apologies on that, but it still doesn't answer the question.

When you open a business, why should you care about who's getting the cake (using this example)? Cake is cake, you didn't open the business to only serve people you like, you opened it to make money. Hence the definition of capitalism. If we can refuse people because we don't like their sexual orientation, why should it stop there?

[Cannabis Islands]

A gay baker condemns gays and lesbians forcing Christians to cater their wedding.

I have to say that I'm on the libertarian side on this issue. I do not wish to force a business to cater my wedding if they do not wish to do so. I would not want my wedding cake baked by someone who did not want to do it.

See, I just wouldn't want to support a queerphobic business regardless of the law.

And that's my whole point. I want to receive services from people that want my service.

[Cannabis Islands]

There is one thing to take the money and not provide service and there is refusing service – payment. I believe that is the majority of cases.

I probably could've worded that as "they were going to be paid to do exactly what they said..." Apologies on that, but it still doesn't answer the question.

When you open a business, why should you care about who's getting the cake (using this example)? Cake is cake, you didn't open the business to only serve people you like, you opened it to make money. Hence the definition of capitalism. If we can refuse people because we don't like their sexual orientation, why should it stop there?

Because they should have the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason. If they put their own religious interests over their economic ones, then that is their choice.

[Saint Kitten]

I probably could've worded that as "they were going to be paid to do exactly what they said..." Apologies on that, but it still doesn't answer the question.

When you open a business, why should you care about who's getting the cake (using this example)? Cake is cake, you didn't open the business to only serve people you like, you opened it to make money. Hence the definition of capitalism. If we can refuse people because we don't like their sexual orientation, why should it stop there?

Because they should have the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason. If they put their own religious interests over their economic ones, then that is their choice.

They should refuse the right to serve someone based on skin colour, religion, sex, sexual orientation, etc.? That's not even an issue of a business putting religious morals over economic interests, it's a blatant violation of human rights. If you feel insecure about people that are different from you to the point where you cannot even serve them food, then don't run a business.

[Cannabis Islands]

Because they should have the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason. If they put their own religious interests over their economic ones, then that is their choice.

They should refuse the right to serve someone based on skin colour, religion, sex, sexual orientation, etc.? That's not even an issue of a business putting religious morals over economic interests, it's a blatant violation of human rights. If you feel insecure about people that are different from you to the point where you cannot even serve them food, then don't run a business.

To answer your question, A business should have the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason. We are not talking about access to right provided by the government or even employment. Nobody has the right to receive services from any private business owner.

[Wisconsin9]

They should refuse the right to serve someone based on skin colour, religion, sex, sexual orientation, etc.? That's not even an issue of a business putting religious morals over economic interests, it's a blatant violation of human rights. If you feel insecure about people that are different from you to the point where you cannot even serve them food, then don't run a business.

To answer your question, A business should have the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason. We are not talking about access to right provided by the government or even employment. Nobody has the right to receive services from any private business owner.

Except they do. The argument is whether or not they should.

[Grenartia]

They should refuse the right to serve someone based on skin colour, religion, sex, sexual orientation, etc.? That's not even an issue of a business putting religious morals over economic interests, it's a blatant violation of human rights. If you feel insecure about people that are different from you to the point where you cannot even serve them food, then don't run a business.

To answer your question, A business should have the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason. We are not talking about access to right provided by the government or even employment. Nobody has the right to receive services from any private business owner.

See, I like to make the comparison to a small desert town. Lets say you've always been a member of this town. But you're LGBT, and everyone in the town hates you. Your family even kicked you out. The nearest town is 50 miles away, the nearest source of fresh water in the wild is even farther.

The problem, is that if we allow businesses to turn away anybody for reasons such as race, gender, sex, sexual orientation, etc., is that in this situation, you die of exposure and dehydration in less than a week, since nobody will allow you into their establishment to purchase the goods you need to survive, and will have you kicked off their property if you go dumpster diving. Effectively, your blood is collectively on the town's hands. Neglectful homicide. So it makes sense to bar discrimination on those grounds. And the only way to make it fair is to keep everybody from being able to discriminate.

[Cannabis Islands]

To answer your question, A business should have the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason. We are not talking about access to right provided by the government or even employment. Nobody has the right to receive services from any private business owner.

Except they do. The argument is whether or not they should.

Sorry, I should have clarified that intended to say " fundamental human right". Businesses should not have to be forced to provide service to anyone.

[Cannabis Islands]

To answer your question, A business should have the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason. We are not talking about access to right provided by the government or even employment. Nobody has the right to receive services from any private business owner.

See, I like to make the comparison to a small desert town. Lets say you've always been a member of this town. But you're LGBT, and everyone in the town hates you. Your family even kicked you out. The nearest town is 50 miles away, the nearest source of fresh water in the wild is even farther.

The problem, is that if we allow businesses to turn away anybody for reasons such as race, gender, sex, sexual orientation, etc., is that in this situation, you die of exposure and dehydration in less than a week, since nobody will allow you into their establishment to purchase the goods you need to survive, and will have you kicked off their property if you go dumpster diving. Effectively, your blood is collectively on the town's hands. Neglectful homicide. So it makes sense to bar discrimination on those grounds. And the only way to make it fair is to keep everybody from being able to discriminate.

That is a wee bit far-fetched. And even if that was the case, other LGBT persons would come together and build their own business. And we're not even talking about vital things like food and water, we're talking about wedding cakes and flowers.

[Grenartia]

See, I like to make the comparison to a small desert town. Lets say you've always been a member of this town. But you're LGBT, and everyone in the town hates you. Your family even kicked you out. The nearest town is 50 miles away, the nearest source of fresh water in the wild is even farther.

The problem, is that if we allow businesses to turn away anybody for reasons such as race, gender, sex, sexual orientation, etc., is that in this situation, you die of exposure and dehydration in less than a week, since nobody will allow you into their establishment to purchase the goods you need to survive, and will have you kicked off their property if you go dumpster diving. Effectively, your blood is collectively on the town's hands. Neglectful homicide. So it makes sense to bar discrimination on those grounds. And the only way to make it fair is to keep everybody from being able to discriminate.

That is a wee bit far-fetched. 1. And even if that was the case, other LGBT persons would come together and build their own business. 2. And we're not even talking about vital things like food and water, we're talking about wedding cakes and flowers.

1. With what money? With what customers? With what property? With what goods? You're like, the only LGBT person in town. You have literally nobody sticking up for you.

2. Again, if you have to force one business to do it, you've gotta force them all to do it. Its the only way to make it fair.

[Cannabis Islands]

That is a wee bit far-fetched. 1. And even if that was the case, other LGBT persons would come together and build their own business. 2. And we're not even talking about vital things like food and water, we're talking about wedding cakes and flowers.

1. With what money? With what customers? With what property? With what goods? You're like, the only LGBT person in town. You have literally nobody sticking up for you.

2. Again, if you have to force one business to do it, you've gotta force them all to do it. Its the only way to make it fair.

I still see the small desert town scenario to be very far-fetched.

[Nature-Spirits]

1. With what money? With what customers? With what property? With what goods? You're like, the only LGBT person in town. You have literally nobody sticking up for you.

2. Again, if you have to force one business to do it, you've gotta force them all to do it. Its the only way to make it fair.

I still see the small desert town scenario to be very far-fetched.

You have clearly never lived in a desert, nor a small town.

I haven't lived in the latter, only the former, but I have visited small towns, and let me tell you, I can definitely see a queerphobic small desert town killing an LGBT person via neglect. When everyone in the town knows you, and they all hate you because you're LGBT, and it's literally impossible to live off the land and moving to another town is infeasible, you are going to die.

[Egoman]

Except they do. The argument is whether or not they should.

Sorry, I should have clarified that intended to say " fundamental human right". Businesses should not have to be forced to provide service to anyone.

No.

[The Flutterlands]

Except they do. The argument is whether or not they should.

Sorry, I should have clarified that intended to say " fundamental human right". Businesses should not have to be forced to provide service to anyone.

So whites have the right to be racist assholes and deny service to black people? Whatever happened to the Civil Rights Movement?

[Indhir]

Check out this little nugget of news about 'Christain' homophobia at it's finest

Check out this little nuggets of homosexual bigotry

[Indhir]

Sorry, I should have clarified that intended to say " fundamental human right". Businesses should not have to be forced to provide service to anyone.

So whites have the right to be racist assholes and deny service to black people? Whatever happened to the Civil Rights Movement?

Yeah. And blacks have the right to do the same.

[The Flutterlands]

Check out this little nugget of news about 'Christain' homophobia at it's finest

Check out this little nuggets of homosexual bigotry

false

[Kingdom of genoa]

I honestly have nothing against LGBT, I see it as if it's a loving relationship then hey why not? As long as I'm left out of it and not ranted at for not actively supporting LGBT, because I have better things to worry about in life, but I'll befriend LGBT without issue, their people, that's all that matters, it's the same reason why I can look at Marxism from a good point of view despite living my whole life being told communism is inherently bad

[Egoman]

Check out this little nugget of news about 'Christain' homophobia at it's finest

Check out this little nuggets of homosexual bigotry

I think you meant Christian bigotry, seeing as a Christian was being bigoted in that article.