LGBT Rights & Issues Thread, V3

[Benuty]

Because they think it is right.

The only reason they'd think it's right to do that to themselves is if they were brainwashed to believe it, or forced to (see conversion therapy).

This reminds me of reading about the evergrowing community of gay catholics who have chosen to lead lives of celibacy.

It was certainly something.

[Benuty]

blah blah

Yeah could you not?

[The V O I D]

The only reason they'd think it's right to do that to themselves is if they were brainwashed to believe it, or forced to (see conversion therapy).

Got anything to back that up?

I could ask the same of you and your supposed 'devout LGBT Christians' who repress themselves on purpose.

[The Imperial Regions of Commerce]

just voicing my opinion of the situation at hand

[United Marxist Nations]

Got anything to back that up?

I could ask the same of you and your supposed 'devout LGBT Christians' who repress themselves on purpose.

Well, as I provided a source for earlier, some 9% of Roman Catholic priests are LGBT. Dio, who is here on NSG, is Bisexual and hopes to become a priest. Fr, Seraphim Rose ended a homosexual relationship when he converted to Orthodoxy, etc.

[Renewed Imperial Germany]

Supressing ones harmless preference in sexual partner, and depriving ones self of love is the ultimate form of self hatred.

On the contrary, I think it is admirable aesthetic practice to be held as a pillar of the community.

Feelings = Facts now?

Self harm is self harm. And self harm is irrefuteably harmful. It wouldn't be called 'harm' otherwise.

[Benuty]

just voicing my opinion of the situation at hand

By saying "blah" to make it seem pointless?

[United Marxist Nations]

On the contrary, I think it is admirable aesthetic practice to be held as a pillar of the community.

Feelings = Facts now?

Self harm is self harm. And self harm is irrefuteably harmful. It wouldn't be called 'harm' otherwise.

So, what, you want to force LGBT Christians to violate their faith?

[The Imperial Regions of Commerce]

what candidate does the LGBT support

[The Grene Knyght]

what candidate does the LGBT support

I think you'll have to be more specific

[Anywhere Else But Here]

Out of interest, do you think they're as happy as they would be in your church in a hundred years or so, when it's moved on (as it inevitably will)? Or as happy as they would be if they were straight? In a situation where you're not calling their nature sinful and denying them the happiness that you call a sacrament and reserve for your own kind, where they're allowed to love.

The Church hasn't changed its position on marriage, and it never will. I think they indeed are less happy, which is why the community has an obligation to provide emotional support. And everyone has a sinful nature, not just LGBT's. They could receive the sacrament, but it would be loveless because they don't feel attraction to people of the opposite sex.

Yes, I did consider adding in brackets something to the effect of "extra sinful". I'd hoped you'd understand my meaning and not be pedantic. As for the Church changing its position, every opponent of progress thinks they've given all the ground they'll need to. They never have. Time, and the habit older generations have of dying, tends to see to that.
Can you imagine telling people a hundred years ago about the strides the LGBT movement would make? That men and women would be marrying members of their own sex, even in some churches? Do you think they'd believe you?

[Benuty]

what candidate does the LGBT support

They are both honestly terrible human beings in that regard.

So long Bernie I will miss you. Jill Stein has no chance so forget it. Honestly the only true candidate should be death themselves since they treat all equally.

[The V O I D]

I could ask the same of you and your supposed 'devout LGBT Christians' who repress themselves on purpose.

Well, as I provided a source for earlier, some 9% of Roman Catholic priests are LGBT. Dio, who is here on NSG, is Bisexual and hopes to become a priest. Fr, Seraphim Rose ended a homosexual relationship when he converted to Orthodoxy, etc.

The priests aren't repressing, they are avoiding. If they are a priest, they can't be in a relationship or get married anyway, because they already involved themselves with God. Avoidance is healthier than repression, I suppose, but it doesn't change the facts, nor solve anything.

[United Marxist Nations]

The Church hasn't changed its position on marriage, and it never will. I think they indeed are less happy, which is why the community has an obligation to provide emotional support. And everyone has a sinful nature, not just LGBT's. They could receive the sacrament, but it would be loveless because they don't feel attraction to people of the opposite sex.

Yes, I did consider adding in brackets something to the effect of "extra sinful". I'd hoped you'd understand my meaning and not be pedantic. As for the Church changing its position, every opponent of progress thinks they've given all the ground they'll need to. They never have. Time, and the habit older generations have of dying, tends to see to that.
Can you imagine telling people a hundred years ago about the strides the LGBT movement would make? That men and women would be marrying members of their own sex, even in some churches? Do you think they'd believe you?

The Church has explicitly condemned it, and, as I said, never has changed its position. It's not going to start because non-Orthodox people are getting riled up.

[United Marxist Nations]

Well, as I provided a source for earlier, some 9% of Roman Catholic priests are LGBT. Dio, who is here on NSG, is Bisexual and hopes to become a priest. Fr, Seraphim Rose ended a homosexual relationship when he converted to Orthodoxy, etc.

The priests aren't repressing, they are avoiding. If they are a priest, they can't be in a relationship or get married anyway, because they already involved themselves with God. Avoidance is healthier than repression, I suppose, but it doesn't change the facts, nor solve anything.

And that's not a devotion to their faith?

[The V O I D]

The priests aren't repressing, they are avoiding. If they are a priest, they can't be in a relationship or get married anyway, because they already involved themselves with God. Avoidance is healthier than repression, I suppose, but it doesn't change the facts, nor solve anything.

And that's not a devotion to their faith?

No, it's avoiding turmoil and homophobic sentiment altogether by proving they are "devoted." Obviously, if they are a priest, who is going to question their faith? Unlike other LGBT christians, who could be at risk of turmoil or homophobic sentiment despite trying to repress themselves, which is harming them even if they aren't intending to self-harm.

[United Marxist Nations]

And that's not a devotion to their faith?

No, it's avoiding turmoil and homophobic sentiment altogether by proving they are "devoted." Obviously, if they are a priest, who is going to question their faith? Unlike other LGBT christians, who could be at risk of turmoil or homophobic sentiment despite trying to repress themselves, which is harming them even if they aren't intending to self-harm.

This sure is a lot of assumptions about a group of people who are many thousands strong.

Face it, you're just denying that LGBT people are capable of strong convictions.

[Anywhere Else But Here]

Yes, I did consider adding in brackets something to the effect of "extra sinful". I'd hoped you'd understand my meaning and not be pedantic. As for the Church changing its position, every opponent of progress thinks they've given all the ground they'll need to. They never have. Time, and the habit older generations have of dying, tends to see to that.
Can you imagine telling people a hundred years ago about the strides the LGBT movement would make? That men and women would be marrying members of their own sex, even in some churches? Do you think they'd believe you?

The Church has explicitly condemned it, and, as I said, never has changed its position. It's not going to start because non-Orthodox people are getting riled up.

Bet it does. Unfortunately, we'll probably both be dead by the time it happens, so you won't be able to pay me. Tell you what, if your lot are right about the whole afterlife thing, and I win the bet, you put in a word with the Almighty, see if you can get me out of whichever fiery pit I'm languishing in. Unless you're in there with me, in which case you have to distract the Prince of Lies while I try to escape.

[The V O I D]

No, it's avoiding turmoil and homophobic sentiment altogether by proving they are "devoted." Obviously, if they are a priest, who is going to question their faith? Unlike other LGBT christians, who could be at risk of turmoil or homophobic sentiment despite trying to repress themselves, which is harming them even if they aren't intending to self-harm.

This sure is a lot of assumptions about a group of people who are many thousands strong.

Face it, you're just denying that LGBT people are capable of strong convictions.

No, I'm not. I'm stating the facts; sorry to burst your bubble or shatter your world view, but contrary to your belief, LGBT people, like any other type of people, don't like to be oppressed. The difference is whether they are in a society wherein they can try to live their lives openly, or wherein they have to find a way to survive without being outcasted or possibly attacked.

[United Marxist Nations]

This sure is a lot of assumptions about a group of people who are many thousands strong.

Face it, you're just denying that LGBT people are capable of strong convictions.

No, I'm not. I'm stating the facts; sorry to burst your bubble or shatter your world view, but contrary to your belief, LGBT people, like any other type of people, don't like to be oppressed. The difference is whether they are in a society wherein they can try to live their lives openly, or wherein they have to find a way to survive without being outcasted or possibly attacked.

Explain Dio.

[United Marxist Nations]

The Church has explicitly condemned it, and, as I said, never has changed its position. It's not going to start because non-Orthodox people are getting riled up.

Bet it does. Unfortunately, we'll probably both be dead by the time it happens, so you won't be able to pay me. Tell you what, if your lot are right about the whole afterlife thing, and I win the bet, you put in a word with the Almighty, see if you can get me out of whichever fiery pit I'm languishing in. Unless you're in there with me, in which case you have to distract the Prince of Lies while I try to escape.

It never has before, I don't see why it would ever.

Well, even if both of us are in hell, we might be in luck, because the Orthodox view would hold that the living and those in heaven can pray for the revelation and salvation of those in hell.

[Renewed Imperial Germany]

No, I'm not. I'm stating the facts; sorry to burst your bubble or shatter your world view, but contrary to your belief, LGBT people, like any other type of people, don't like to be oppressed. The difference is whether they are in a society wherein they can try to live their lives openly, or wherein they have to find a way to survive without being outcasted or possibly attacked.

Explain Dio.

LGBT people are capable of suffering from self destructive tendencies.

[Renewed Imperial Germany]

It never has before, I don't see why it would ever.

Eh. I mean, Christianity can cease existing if it wants too. Which, of course, is effectively what your suggesting, considering it is increasingly making itself incompatible with reality.

[The V O I D]

No, I'm not. I'm stating the facts; sorry to burst your bubble or shatter your world view, but contrary to your belief, LGBT people, like any other type of people, don't like to be oppressed. The difference is whether they are in a society wherein they can try to live their lives openly, or wherein they have to find a way to survive without being outcasted or possibly attacked.

Explain Dio.

If Dio was raised by a conservative family in a conservative neighborhood that was highly religious, where it was seen as respectable to be devoted to religion, and LGBTs were hated or perhaps discriminated against, it was practically slammed into his brain that being LGBT would not end well, despite his lack of choice in the matter; so, he devotes himself into faith and such because he wants to either repress it and show that he isn't like the others, thus shouldn't be harmed; or to avoid the issue of turmoil and such being brought up with his family, or friends.

Learned behaviors are not the same as reality. Dio is doing what it takes to survive. Others sometimes simply try to escape, and find a more tolerant place if they can't handle the stresses of avoiding turmoil or repressing themselves. Regardless, it is logical. Humans are very logical beings, despite what some people believe about emotion being involved. I do not use much emotion in my decisions; I prefer logic, rational thought, and reasoning.

[United Marxist Nations]

It never has before, I don't see why it would ever.

Eh. I mean, Christianity can cease existing if it wants too. Which, of course, is effectively what your suggesting, considering it is increasingly making itself incompatible with reality.

Orthodoxy is actually growing.

Like I said, the only people clamoring for churches to perform gay marriage aren't Orthodox anyway. There is literally no reason for change.