LGBT Rights & Issues Thread, V3

[Jumalariik]

I would say not in that case. I would call it just a cavity.

Then you're wrong.

Source?

[Nature-Spirits]

1) They're hardly "unfair assumptions".
2) [citation needed]
3) Not really.
4) *still avoiding the question*

1) No, I think it's unfair to assume historical clergy has always been heterosexual. Especially when large numbers of modern clergy are homosexual. I think it is fair to assume a similar demographic breakdown existed in the past.
2) https://oca.org/parish-ministry/theolog ... a-mother-a
3) Yes, it is. I have no ill-will to LGBT people, and am good friends with a transgender person.
4) Which question? I may have missed it.

1) I think it's fair to say that a minority of the historical clergy are not responsible for such a strong sentiment in a huge amount of Christendom, and therefore not who was being referred to. No?
2) No, I mean historical documentation. Not something someone made up as a justification after the fact.
3) If you didn't hold ill will, you wouldn't oppose measures designed to save our lives.
4) ..........

Maybe you need to reread the posts on this page.

[United Marxist Nations]

1) No, I think it's unfair to assume historical clergy has always been heterosexual. Especially when large numbers of modern clergy are homosexual. I think it is fair to assume a similar demographic breakdown existed in the past.
2) https://oca.org/parish-ministry/theolog ... a-mother-a
3) Yes, it is. I have no ill-will to LGBT people, and am good friends with a transgender person.
4) Which question? I may have missed it.

1) I think it's fair to say that a minority of the historical clergy are not responsible for such a strong sentiment in a huge amount of Christendom, and therefore not who was being referred to. No?
2) No, I mean historical documentation. Not something someone made up as a justification after the fact.
3) If you didn't hold ill will, you wouldn't oppose measures designed to save our lives.
4) ..........

Maybe you need to reread the posts on this page.

1) The sentiment unfortunately shared by many believers isn't what is being discussed. The position of the Church is.
2) https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=ESV
3) Sex is a measure designed to save lives? I think you need to get back to what we were discussing, which is homosexual activity.
4) I legitimately have no idea what question you mean.

[Anywhere Else But Here]

1) I think it's fair to say that a minority of the historical clergy are not responsible for such a strong sentiment in a huge amount of Christendom, and therefore not who was being referred to. No?
2) No, I mean historical documentation. Not something someone made up as a justification after the fact.
3) If you didn't hold ill will, you wouldn't oppose measures designed to save our lives.
4) ..........

Maybe you need to reread the posts on this page.

1) The sentiment unfortunately shared by many believers isn't what is being discussed. The position of the Church is.
2) https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=ESV
3) Sex is a measure designed to save lives? I think you need to get back to what we were discussing, which is homosexual activity.
4) I legitimately have no idea what question you mean.

Why did God create gay people?

The term "homosexual activity" is an interesting one. I see that sort of thing an awful lot (and in general a reluctance to use the word "gay"). It's so very clinical; you'd find less stilted language in the BMJ. It's almost like, if you acknowledged it as love, or even just casual sex, between two real, breathing, living humans, members of your own species who are no different from you, you might have a harder time condemning it.

[United Marxist Nations]

1) The sentiment unfortunately shared by many believers isn't what is being discussed. The position of the Church is.
2) https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=ESV
3) Sex is a measure designed to save lives? I think you need to get back to what we were discussing, which is homosexual activity.
4) I legitimately have no idea what question you mean.

Why did God create gay people?

The term "homosexual activity" is an interesting one. I see that sort of thing an awful lot (and in general a reluctance to use the word "gay"). It's so very clinical; you'd find less stilted language in the BMJ. It's almost like, if you acknowledged it as love, or even just casual sex, between two real, breathing, living humans, members of your own species who are no different from you, you might have a harder time condemning it.

I don't know. Not privy to that. I'd like to be, but I'm not.

BMJ?

I consider casual sex, or even just premarital sex just as bad as any gay pairing.

[Anywhere Else But Here]

Why did God create gay people?

The term "homosexual activity" is an interesting one. I see that sort of thing an awful lot (and in general a reluctance to use the word "gay"). It's so very clinical; you'd find less stilted language in the BMJ. It's almost like, if you acknowledged it as love, or even just casual sex, between two real, breathing, living humans, members of your own species who are no different from you, you might have a harder time condemning it.

I don't know. Not privy to that. I'd like to be, but I'm not.

BMJ?

I consider casual sex, or even just premarital sex just as bad as any gay pairing.

British Medical Journal.

"as bad as any gay pairing"
No, really, keep insisting you don't bear gay people ill will. Gays are always bad, straights are only sometimes bad. Gays are bad by our very nature, straights are bad by choice.

So you don't know why he made us, but you know his exact thoughts on gender and can interpret them in a convoluted way to infer that he wants you to judge and generally mistreat us. Kind of a blank cheque of bigotry.

I mean, if I were religious, I'd probably think something along the lines of:
"God created these people, hard-wired into them a particular trait that they can't change, so I reckon he wouldn't want me to say nasty things about them because of that trait, or proclaim that that trait, which is in no way their choice, and which must surely come from their creator, makes them lesser than me."

But maybe that's just me.

[United Marxist Nations]

I don't know. Not privy to that. I'd like to be, but I'm not.

BMJ?

I consider casual sex, or even just premarital sex just as bad as any gay pairing.

British Medical Journal.

"as bad as any gay pairing"
No, really, keep insisting you don't bear gay people ill will. Gays are always bad, straights are only sometimes bad. Gays are bad by our very nature, straights are bad by choice.

So you don't know why he made us, but you know his exact thoughts on gender and can interpret them in a convoluted way to infer that he wants you to judge and generally mistreat us. Kind of a blank cheque of bigotry.

I mean, if I were religious, I'd probably think something along the lines of:
"God created these people, hard-wired into them a particular trait that they can't change, so I reckon he wouldn't want me to say nasty things about them because of that trait, or proclaim that that trait, which is in no way their choice, and which must surely come from their creator, makes them lesser than me."

But maybe that's just me.

Can you explain how you're getting the underlined?

And, no, I don't know His thoughts on gender, I'm towing the Church line.

[Anywhere Else But Here]

British Medical Journal.

"as bad as any gay pairing"
No, really, keep insisting you don't bear gay people ill will. Gays are always bad, straights are only sometimes bad. Gays are bad by our very nature, straights are bad by choice.

So you don't know why he made us, but you know his exact thoughts on gender and can interpret them in a convoluted way to infer that he wants you to judge and generally mistreat us. Kind of a blank cheque of bigotry.

I mean, if I were religious, I'd probably think something along the lines of:
"God created these people, hard-wired into them a particular trait that they can't change, so I reckon he wouldn't want me to say nasty things about them because of that trait, or proclaim that that trait, which is in no way their choice, and which must surely come from their creator, makes them lesser than me."

But maybe that's just me.

Can you explain how you're getting the underlined?

And, no, I don't know His thoughts on gender, I'm towing the Church line.

Well, you've made it quite clear that gay marriage, in your view, does not exist. Thus a gay couple, in any form, is to you "bad", whereas a straight couples are only "bad" if they don't get married.
One is "you are bad because you did not wait", the other "you are bad because you did not force upon yourself the kind of life-long self-repression and loneliness that leads to mental illness and suicide. Which is also bad, by the way."

Funny, the confidence with which you asserted that gender nonsense made me think you had more than "I heard it from some old men, who also don't know."

So I take it you don't like my idea of how a religious person might respond to the existence of gay people?

[United Marxist Nations]

Can you explain how you're getting the underlined?

And, no, I don't know His thoughts on gender, I'm towing the Church line.

Well, you've made it quite clear that gay marriage, in your view, does not exist. Thus a gay couple, in any form, is to you "bad", whereas a straight couples are only "bad" if they don't get married.
One is "you are bad because you did not wait", the other "you are bad because you did not force upon yourself the kind of life-long self-repression and loneliness that leads to mental illness and suicide. Which is also bad, by the way."

Funny, the confidence with which you asserted that gender nonsense made me think you had more than "I heard it from some old men, who also don't know."

So I take it you don't like my idea of how a religious person might respond to the existence of gay people?

If they were to not have sex, or even to repent if they slip up, then it wouldn't bother me in the slightest.

I hold the position that Holy Tradition is infallible, so I would say the Church does know.

Most people have lustful and other sinful desires that cannot be changed. We reject those as well.

[The V O I D]

Well, you've made it quite clear that gay marriage, in your view, does not exist. Thus a gay couple, in any form, is to you "bad", whereas a straight couples are only "bad" if they don't get married.
One is "you are bad because you did not wait", the other "you are bad because you did not force upon yourself the kind of life-long self-repression and loneliness that leads to mental illness and suicide. Which is also bad, by the way."

Funny, the confidence with which you asserted that gender nonsense made me think you had more than "I heard it from some old men, who also don't know."

So I take it you don't like my idea of how a religious person might respond to the existence of gay people?

If they were to not have sex, or even to repent if they slip up, then it wouldn't bother me in the slightest.

I hold the position that Holy Tradition is infallible, so I would say the Church does know.

Most people have lustful and other sinful desires that cannot be changed. We reject those as well.

Why do gay people need to repent for having sex or getting married? Love is love. Repression never works, for anyone in the LGBT community. Anytime forced repression happens, it almost always leads to mental illness, suicide, or in some cases, if the person gets attacked, murder because of them taking their frustrations out, all of them, on the attacker.

Repentance/repression has never done any good to the LGBT community. Those who 'converted' or had 'conversion therapy'? They were either paid to, or just said they were straight and forced themselves to repress and such just to stop the torture involved in conversion therapy. Like any other person, they'll crack and say whatever you want to hear to get the torture and such to stop, even if it is the farthest thing from the truth.

You say you harbor no ill will towards the community, yet you advocate things that are harmful, and indeed lead to death, within said community. Not sure if hypocritical or just dishonest.

[United Marxist Nations]

If they were to not have sex, or even to repent if they slip up, then it wouldn't bother me in the slightest.

I hold the position that Holy Tradition is infallible, so I would say the Church does know.

Most people have lustful and other sinful desires that cannot be changed. We reject those as well.

Why do gay people need to repent for having sex or getting married? Love is love. Repression never works, for anyone in the LGBT community. Anytime forced repression happens, it almost always leads to mental illness, suicide, or in some cases, if the person gets attacked, murder because of them taking their frustrations out, all of them, on the attacker.

Repentance/repression has never done any good to the LGBT community. Those who 'converted' or had 'conversion therapy'? They were either paid to, or just said they were straight and forced themselves to repress and such just to stop the torture involved in conversion therapy. Like any other person, they'll crack and say whatever you want to hear to get the torture and such to stop, even if it is the farthest thing from the truth.

You say you harbor no ill will towards the community, yet you advocate things that are harmful, and indeed lead to death, within said community. Not sure if hypocritical or just dishonest.

There are, as I said, many mentally healthy LGBT Orthodox and Roman Catholic Christians who conduct themselves admirably, and I know of one that I and many others consider a saint.

I never endorsed conversion therapy, and think such an abominable practice should be banned.

[The V O I D]

Why do gay people need to repent for having sex or getting married? Love is love. Repression never works, for anyone in the LGBT community. Anytime forced repression happens, it almost always leads to mental illness, suicide, or in some cases, if the person gets attacked, murder because of them taking their frustrations out, all of them, on the attacker.

Repentance/repression has never done any good to the LGBT community. Those who 'converted' or had 'conversion therapy'? They were either paid to, or just said they were straight and forced themselves to repress and such just to stop the torture involved in conversion therapy. Like any other person, they'll crack and say whatever you want to hear to get the torture and such to stop, even if it is the farthest thing from the truth.

You say you harbor no ill will towards the community, yet you advocate things that are harmful, and indeed lead to death, within said community. Not sure if hypocritical or just dishonest.

There are, as I said, many mentally healthy LGBT Orthodox and Roman Catholic Christians who conduct themselves admirably, and I know of one that I and many others consider a saint.

I never endorsed conversion therapy, and think such an abominable practice should be banned.

Repression doesn't work. It may look like it's working to you, but in all likelihood they are morbidly depressed, even if they don't show it or won't admit it. They'll likely do everything they can to prove otherwise if you ask. Looking like it's working and actually working are completely different things altogether.

[United Marxist Nations]

There are, as I said, many mentally healthy LGBT Orthodox and Roman Catholic Christians who conduct themselves admirably, and I know of one that I and many others consider a saint.

I never endorsed conversion therapy, and think such an abominable practice should be banned.

Repression doesn't work. It may look like it's working to you, but in all likelihood they are morbidly depressed, even if they don't show it or won't admit it. They'll likely do everything they can to prove otherwise if you ask. Looking like it's working and actually working are completely different things altogether.

Situations like that are why the community has a duty to look after its members. Many clergy and monastics are also depressed, but they make do because of their devotion. LGBT Christians have a similar devotion.

[Renewed Imperial Germany]

Repression doesn't work. It may look like it's working to you, but in all likelihood they are morbidly depressed, even if they don't show it or won't admit it. They'll likely do everything they can to prove otherwise if you ask. Looking like it's working and actually working are completely different things altogether.

Situations like that are why the community has a duty to look after its members. Many clergy and monastics are also depressed, but they make do because of their devotion. LGBT Christians have a similar devotion.

I have no devotion to your fairy God that hates me.

[The V O I D]

Repression doesn't work. It may look like it's working to you, but in all likelihood they are morbidly depressed, even if they don't show it or won't admit it. They'll likely do everything they can to prove otherwise if you ask. Looking like it's working and actually working are completely different things altogether.

Situations like that are why the community has a duty to look after its members. Many clergy and monastics are also depressed, but they make do because of their devotion. LGBT Christians have a similar devotion.

Actually, the more likely scenario is they are falsifying that devotion so as to not be outcasted by a highly conservative and religious community, on top of dealing with borderline crippling depression. Y'know, considering if they were open about their depression and were openly trying to get into relationships to cure it, they'd be outcasted and sometimes even hated by everyone else in the community who wasn't LGBT.

[United Marxist Nations]

Situations like that are why the community has a duty to look after its members. Many clergy and monastics are also depressed, but they make do because of their devotion. LGBT Christians have a similar devotion.

Actually, the more likely scenario is they are falsifying that devotion so as to not be outcasted by a highly conservative and religious community, on top of dealing with borderline crippling depression. Y'know, considering if they were open about their depression and were openly trying to get into relationships to cure it, they'd be outcasted and sometimes even hated by everyone else in the community who wasn't LGBT.

So, what, you don't think LGBT people are capable of religious devotion?

RIG, you're not an LGBT Christian, so you don't count.

[Renewed Imperial Germany]

Situations like that are why the community has a duty to look after its members. Many clergy and monastics are also depressed, but they make do because of their devotion. LGBT Christians have a similar devotion.

Actually, the more likely scenario is they are falsifying that devotion so as to not be outcasted by a highly conservative and religious community, on top of dealing with borderline crippling depression. Y'know, considering if they were open about their depression and were openly trying to get into relationships to cure it, they'd be outcasted and sometimes even hated by everyone else in the community who wasn't LGBT.

"The Religion of Love"

[Third Temple Church]

So, I was reading about the phenomena of trans-abled. It has gotten me thinking, where is the line drawn between mental illness and trans-ness? At what point does a desire to have different innate characteristics become mental illness or become sane? I think that we can all agree that wanting to be disabled is mental illness. What is the line then? I would honestly say that thinking of oneself as having innate characteristics that one doesn't have is in of itself problematic, but that's just one opinion.

This is just my opinion. I feel that most people who chose to be disabled are in a sense mentally I'll. If you were to ask a disabled person, they would tell you that it isn't something to be sought. In fact, the disability community dislikes such people since they have sought there disability. No sane or rational person seeks to be disabled.
You have to be on the lookout for people and there "interests".

[Benuty]

Onto something less inflammatory...
How do you personally handle falling in love with someone who can never reciprocate?
EDIT: Specifically because of incompatible orientations.

The ruinous powers of Slaneesh can help you in this regard.

[Benuty]

Actually, the more likely scenario is they are falsifying that devotion so as to not be outcasted by a highly conservative and religious community, on top of dealing with borderline crippling depression. Y'know, considering if they were open about their depression and were openly trying to get into relationships to cure it, they'd be outcasted and sometimes even hated by everyone else in the community who wasn't LGBT.

"The Religion of Love"

Ah yes there is another example of one of your famous generalizations.

[Sungai Pusat]

Onto something less inflammatory...
How do you personally handle falling in love with someone who can never reciprocate?
EDIT: Specifically because of incompatible orientations.

I.... don't?

I mean, I just let go of it most of the time. Not even sure of my sexual orientation, but if it's LGB+, then I'm sure as FUCK not going to find anyone in public; partly perhaps because of the climate that I live in (Let's go with chilly; the opposite of the physical weather here), but also because I am a horrible awkward shit in public or at least I very much feel this way.

So... short answer is that I just... well, not bite the bullet as much as never think of the bullet being there.

[Benuty]

Situations like that are why the community has a duty to look after its members. Many clergy and monastics are also depressed, but they make do because of their devotion. LGBT Christians have a similar devotion.

I have no devotion to your fairy God that hates me.

Hope you realize a fairy, and a god are two different things.

Now a fairy god is actually something pretty bad to say derisively. Because it summons an eldritch abomination which slaps you so hard your body literally turns into white, and gold ash.

I assure you it is quite agonizing so therefore I will intervene, and let them slumber once more.

[The V O I D]

Actually, the more likely scenario is they are falsifying that devotion so as to not be outcasted by a highly conservative and religious community, on top of dealing with borderline crippling depression. Y'know, considering if they were open about their depression and were openly trying to get into relationships to cure it, they'd be outcasted and sometimes even hated by everyone else in the community who wasn't LGBT.

So, what, you don't think LGBT people are capable of religious devotion?

RIG, you're not an LGBT Christian, so you don't count.

Sure, they are - as long as they are in a tolerant community and their local church is tolerant. Otherwise, it's likely faux devotion just to make it so that they don't get outcasted. Unless your Church allows gay marriages and your local community is all-liberal and you're the only conservative, I highly doubt they are forcing themselves to be repressed, depressed, and 'devoted' with the devotion being real.

They are perfectly capable; it just depends on the situation whether it is real, or fake.

[Renewed Imperial Germany]

I have no devotion to your fairy God that hates me.

Hope you realize a fairy, and a god are two different things.

Now a fairy god is actually something pretty bad to say derisively. Because it summons an eldritch abomination which slaps you so hard your body literally turns into white, and gold ash.

I assure you it is quite agonizing so therefore I will intervene, and let them slumber once more.

Fairies and Gods have a lot in common. Namely, theyre both fake.

[United Marxist Nations]

So, what, you don't think LGBT people are capable of religious devotion?

RIG, you're not an LGBT Christian, so you don't count.

Sure, they are - as long as they are in a tolerant community and their local church is tolerant. Otherwise, it's likely faux devotion just to make it so that they don't get outcasted. Unless your Church allows gay marriages and your local community is all-liberal and you're the only conservative, I highly doubt they are forcing themselves to be repressed, depressed, and 'devoted' with the devotion being real.

They are perfectly capable; it just depends on the situation whether it is real, or fake.

So, you're basically saying that LGBT people can't devote themselves to what they think is right at their temporary expense. It sounds to me like you just have a really low opinion of them. Plus, the one I consider a saint (Fr. Seraphim Rose) was a convert. Plus, we have them on NSG, Dio is a good example.