LGBT Rights & Issues Thread, V3

[Renewed Imperial Germany]

No. Catholicism has ruined my life. Christianity, a religion that purports to be one of 'love,' has ruined my life. If you plan on defending their shit, leave, just fucking leave.

Not all Christians are as anti-LGBT as the congregation you were in.

I'm sorry you had to go through that, but not all of us Christians are people who want to condemn you. You have to at least acknowledge that.

I do. I've met decent and accepting Christians. Those two on this thread, however, aren't.

[Jumalariik]

You don't have to believe me. I'm sorry that you don't think I can have a sincere affection for somebody despite them being LGBT. Clearly you do not know me personally. If I didn't have respect and a desire for your happiness and wellbeing I wouldn't try to be kind and polite. I'm just stating an opinion that has nothing to do with if i love you as a person or not.

If you love me then why do you push bullshit that ruins my ability to be happy and healthy? Thats not love. Thats selfishness.

If I didn't try to point to a direction that I thought was better what kind of person would I be? If I try to lead you to what I think will result in eternal joy for somebody, is that not the greatest possible act of love that I can do?

[Renewed Imperial Germany]

I am not about to talk to a propagandist for a religion that hates a central part of me being.

Don't you have to pretend to be a Roman Catholic already anyway?

Well, yes, I do. Begrudgingly. Not that I actually pay attention during Mass, and, conveniently, haven't had to confess in years because its so easy to claim I 'did it at school.'

[United Marxist Nations]

Not all Christians are as anti-LGBT as the congregation you were in.

I'm sorry you had to go through that, but not all of us Christians are people who want to condemn you. You have to at least acknowledge that.

I do. I've met decent and accepting Christians. Those two on this thread, however, aren't.

You know nothing about us except of our postings on a forum, so don't suppose to call us indecent.

[The Princes of the Universe]

Can we take two minutes to calm the hell down please?

No. Catholicism has ruined my life. Christianity, a religion that purports to be one of 'love,' has ruined my life. If you plan on defending their shit, leave, just fucking leave.

A. That was addressed to everyone.
B. That was my piece. That was it. The full monty. The whole shebang. I'm out of synonyms, but hopefully you get my point.
C. I don't answer to you in any case.

[Descentia Angellia]

No. Catholicism has ruined my life. Christianity, a religion that purports to be one of 'love,' has ruined my life. If you plan on defending their shit, leave, just fucking leave.

Not all Christians are as anti-LGBT as the congregation you were in.

I'm sorry you had to go through that, but not all of us Christians are people who want to condemn you. You have to at least acknowledge that.

[quote="Renewed Imperial Germany";p="29539301"][quote="United Marxist Nations";p="29539298"][quote="Renewed Imperial Germany";p="29539281"]

Yeah, I have to agree with what they said. I have a catholic friend, and a bisexual friend, who both are best friends, even knowing the practices or sexuality of the other. The bisexual one sometimes goes to church with her as well, and she says that she's actually not shunned and rejected by a large majority of the group (and those that are get scolded). To that church, as long as it makes you happy, so be it.

[United Marxist Nations]

Don't you have to pretend to be a Roman Catholic already anyway?

Well, yes, I do. Begrudgingly. Not that I actually pay attention during Mass, and, conveniently, haven't had to confess in years because its so easy to claim I 'did it at school.'

Then why not just try something and see if you can get something out of it? What could it possibly hurt?

[Jumalariik]

Don't you have to pretend to be a Roman Catholic already anyway?

Well, yes, I do. Begrudgingly. Not that I actually pay attention during Mass, and, conveniently, haven't had to confess in years because its so easy to claim I 'did it at school.'

I would just like to remind you that we have talked in private and that I have not been hateful. You know this and I see no reason why I would pretend to have love for somebody.

[Renewed Imperial Germany]

Well, yes, I do. Begrudgingly. Not that I actually pay attention during Mass, and, conveniently, haven't had to confess in years because its so easy to claim I 'did it at school.'

Then why not just try something and see if you can get something out of it? What could it possibly hurt?

Because every experience I have had with the Catholic Church has been 100%, unequivocally negative. I don't need more things to be depressed about. Its fucking hard enough as it is.

[United Marxist Nations]

Then why not just try something and see if you can get something out of it? What could it possibly hurt?

Because every experience I have had with the Catholic Church has been 100%, unequivocally negative. I don't need more things to be depressed about. Its fucking hard enough as it is.

Your parish priest can do nothing to hurt you, and a high percentage of them are actually homosexual or bisexual themselves (indeed, many LGBT Roman Catholics seek the priesthood as a means of taking on a higher purpose while abstaining from sinful action), so you might be surprised. And, if it is in confession, they can't tell anyone about it, as it would be against policy for them to do so.

[Jumalariik]

Then why not just try something and see if you can get something out of it? What could it possibly hurt?

Because every experience I have had with the Catholic Church has been 100%, unequivocally negative. I don't need more things to be depressed about. Its fucking hard enough as it is.

Honestly because I've known so many IRL Catholics that I didn't like I had a real dislike for Catholicism that some people on NS can really attest to, but that can be overcome by seeing great Catholics. If a Christian does not love every human, they are not doing it properly. I cannot say I do, but it is something I must try to do. I'm worse at it than most people. "If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing."

[Freefall11111]

Because every experience I have had with the Catholic Church has been 100%, unequivocally negative. I don't need more things to be depressed about. Its fucking hard enough as it is.

Your parish priest can do nothing to hurt you, and a high percentage of them are actually homosexual or bisexual themselves (indeed, many LGBT Roman Catholics seek the priesthood as a means of taking on a higher purpose while abstaining from sinful action), so you might be surprised. And, if it is in confession, they can't tell anyone about it, as it would be against policy for them to do so.

How high a percentage? Has a study been done on this or is it just speculation?

[Renewed Imperial Germany]

Because every experience I have had with the Catholic Church has been 100%, unequivocally negative. I don't need more things to be depressed about. Its fucking hard enough as it is.

Your parish priest can do nothing to hurt you, and a high percentage of them are actually homosexual or bisexual themselves (indeed, many LGBT Roman Catholics seek the priesthood as a means of taking on a higher purpose while abstaining from sinful action), so you might be surprised. And, if it is in confession, they can't tell anyone about it, as it would be against policy for them to do so.

I don't need some priest to act all high and mighty and tell me that who I am is sinful and I need to suppress it and keep walking through life in a body that causes me psychological duress appearing, presenting, and behaving as something I'm not.

[Jumalariik]

Because every experience I have had with the Catholic Church has been 100%, unequivocally negative. I don't need more things to be depressed about. Its fucking hard enough as it is.

Your parish priest can do nothing to hurt you, and a high percentage of them are actually homosexual or bisexual themselves (indeed, many LGBT Roman Catholics seek the priesthood as a means of taking on a higher purpose while abstaining from sinful action), so you might be surprised. And, if it is in confession, they can't tell anyone about it, as it would be against policy for them to do so.

It would be an offense giving what is I think instant excommunication as far as I checked.

[Jumalariik]

Your parish priest can do nothing to hurt you, and a high percentage of them are actually homosexual or bisexual themselves (indeed, many LGBT Roman Catholics seek the priesthood as a means of taking on a higher purpose while abstaining from sinful action), so you might be surprised. And, if it is in confession, they can't tell anyone about it, as it would be against policy for them to do so.

I don't need some priest to act all high and mighty and tell me that who I am is sinful and I need to suppress it and keep walking through life in a body that causes me psychological duress appearing, presenting, and behaving as something I'm not.

Ok. It's just na option. Confession is a cathartic feeling. Can you say that you have never done something you regret since your last confession?

[United Marxist Nations]

Your parish priest can do nothing to hurt you, and a high percentage of them are actually homosexual or bisexual themselves (indeed, many LGBT Roman Catholics seek the priesthood as a means of taking on a higher purpose while abstaining from sinful action), so you might be surprised. And, if it is in confession, they can't tell anyone about it, as it would be against policy for them to do so.

I don't need some priest to act all high and mighty and tell me that who I am is sinful and I need to suppress it and keep walking through life in a body that causes me psychological duress appearing, presenting, and behaving as something I'm not.

You said yourself that you're having to suppress it anyway, and he could help you deal with your depression.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

No. Catholicism has ruined my life. Christianity, a religion that purports to be one of 'love,' has ruined my life. If you plan on defending their shit, leave, just fucking leave.

A. That was addressed to everyone.
B. That was my piece. That was it. The full monty. The whole shebang. I'm out of synonyms, but hopefully you get my point.
C. I don't answer to you in any case.

No need to get salty. This is a discussion between LGBT and Christians, and we're not breaking any rules, not even threadjacking, as it is relevant to LGBT issues.

[Renewed Imperial Germany]

I don't need some priest to act all high and mighty and tell me that who I am is sinful and I need to suppress it and keep walking through life in a body that causes me psychological duress appearing, presenting, and behaving as something I'm not.

Ok. It's just na option. Confession is a cathartic feeling. Can you say that you have never done something you regret since your last confession?

Confession was never cathartic for me. Half the things I'm supposed to 'confess' I don't even think are wrong. The only thing I regret is not being louder about who I am. At least then I'd be experiencing pain in the name of something, not just for being a fucking coward.

[United Marxist Nations]

Your parish priest can do nothing to hurt you, and a high percentage of them are actually homosexual or bisexual themselves (indeed, many LGBT Roman Catholics seek the priesthood as a means of taking on a higher purpose while abstaining from sinful action), so you might be surprised. And, if it is in confession, they can't tell anyone about it, as it would be against policy for them to do so.

How high a percentage? Has a study been done on this or is it just speculation?

A 2002 Los Angeles Times nationwide poll of 1,854 priests (responding) reported that 9 percent of priests identified themselves as homosexual, and 6 percent as "somewhere in between but more on the homosexual side." Asked if a "homosexual subculture" (defined as a "definite group of persons that has its own friendships, social gatherings and vocabulary") existed in their diocese or religious order, 17 percent of the priests said "definitely," and 27 percent said "probably." 53 percent of priests who were ordained in the last 20 years (1982-2002) affirmed such a subculture existed in the seminary when they attended.[13]

[Jumalariik]

A. That was addressed to everyone.
B. That was my piece. That was it. The full monty. The whole shebang. I'm out of synonyms, but hopefully you get my point.
C. I don't answer to you in any case.

No need to get salty. This is a discussion between LGBT and Christians, and we're not breaking any rules, not even threadjacking, as it is relevant to LGBT issues.

Yes. We are all trying to keep civil. This is a complicated issue. Nobody here hates the other side. (I hope)

[Freefall11111]

How high a percentage? Has a study been done on this or is it just speculation?

A 2002 Los Angeles Times nationwide poll of 1,854 priests (responding) reported that 9 percent of priests identified themselves as homosexual, and 6 percent as "somewhere in between but more on the homosexual side." Asked if a "homosexual subculture" (defined as a "definite group of persons that has its own friendships, social gatherings and vocabulary") existed in their diocese or religious order, 17 percent of the priests said "definitely," and 27 percent said "probably." 53 percent of priests who were ordained in the last 20 years (1982-2002) affirmed such a subculture existed in the seminary when they attended.[13]

Over 9%? That's impressively disproportionate.

[Jumalariik]

Ok. It's just na option. Confession is a cathartic feeling. Can you say that you have never done something you regret since your last confession?

Confession was never cathartic for me. Half the things I'm supposed to 'confess' I don't even think are wrong. The only thing I regret is not being louder about who I am. At least then I'd be experiencing pain in the name of something, not just for being a fucking coward.

Ok. That is understandable. I won't blame you in that case. You know yourself better than I ever can.

[Descentia Angellia]

Ok. It's just na option. Confession is a cathartic feeling. Can you say that you have never done something you regret since your last confession?

Confession was never cathartic for me. Half the things I'm supposed to 'confess' I don't even think are wrong. The only thing I regret is not being louder about who I am. At least then I'd be experiencing pain in the name of something, not just for being a fucking coward.

If so, then don't. Do what makes you feel comfortable. Having depression sucks, and if confession will make it worse, then don't. While I'd usually be the person arguing for attempts in understanding other religions, races, or even just ideals, I understand that it'll be more likely to hurt you even more. Your wellbeing is what matters most.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Your parish priest can do nothing to hurt you, and a high percentage of them are actually homosexual or bisexual themselves (indeed, many LGBT Roman Catholics seek the priesthood as a means of taking on a higher purpose while abstaining from sinful action), so you might be surprised. And, if it is in confession, they can't tell anyone about it, as it would be against policy for them to do so.

I don't need some priest to act all high and mighty and tell me that who I am is sinful and I need to suppress it and keep walking through life in a body that causes me psychological duress appearing, presenting, and behaving as something I'm not.

They can't tell you you need to suppress it in the way you are presenting it.

I've only heard protestants say that, and even then, a small minority of protestants.

[Jumalariik]

Confession was never cathartic for me. Half the things I'm supposed to 'confess' I don't even think are wrong. The only thing I regret is not being louder about who I am. At least then I'd be experiencing pain in the name of something, not just for being a fucking coward.

If so, then don't. Do what makes you feel comfortable. Having depression sucks, and if confession will make it worse, then don't. While I'd usually be the person arguing for attempts in understanding other religions, races, or even just ideals, I understand that it'll be more likely to hurt you even more. Your wellbeing is what matters most.

I do agree. That said, we are trying to understand your side, and your side should do the same.