LGBT Rights & Issues Thread, V3

[Max Empire]

Christian morality ruined my fucking life. Do you know what it feels like when sadness is your normal fucking emotion? No? Then get the fuck out of here telling me whats fucking better for me. Your morality is the foundation of all my troubles. Its why childhood is something I want to forget and move on from and not cherish like most people do. So take your morality and shove it in someone elses fucking face. I'm done with this religion of so-called "love" and its fucking bullshit.

I'd like to point out that you don't actually know much about my life.

Losing 3 very close relatives in 4 months isn't a ground for joy. Thing is, no matter who you are, what privileges you have, losing the people you love the most is painful. I don't want to turn this into depression olympics. Don't act as though you are the only one to feel sadness. You have it a lot worse than I do. Again though, don't just presume. The light of Jesus Christ has often been the only light that shines. Christianity may make your life bad, but it makes my life a lot better.

So why do you want to make everybody live by Christian morals? If you admit that it's making people's lives bad and still advocate for them to live by them, what kind of person does that make you?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Christian morality ruined my fucking life. Do you know what it feels like when sadness is your normal fucking emotion? No? Then get the fuck out of here telling me whats fucking better for me. Your morality is the foundation of all my troubles. Its why childhood is something I want to forget and move on from and not cherish like most people do. So take your morality and shove it in someone elses fucking face. I'm done with this religion of so-called "love" and its fucking bullshit.

I'd like to point out that you don't actually know much about my life.

Losing 3 very close relatives in 4 months isn't a ground for joy. Thing is, no matter who you are, what privileges you have, losing the people you love the most is painful. I don't want to turn this into depression olympics. Don't act as though you are the only one to feel sadness. You have it a lot worse than I do. Again though, don't just presume. The light of Jesus Christ has often been the only light that shines. Christianity may make your life bad, but it makes my life a lot better.

And if it makes your life a lot better, why would you want to make someone else's life bad in this world by saying "Oh I care about you" but then go "only if you don't come with your gay shit around here"?

If you want to bring family into this, I lost my entire family due to a sinful action. They were all Christians, but they still sinned, and they sinned worse than an LGBT person sins. So being LGBT, for me, is a spit in the bucket in my opinion, after all the shit I've gone through.

[Jumalariik]

If you think that I should pretend to be a straight cis man, then you want me to kill myself.

If you think that I should pretend to be a straight cis man, then you do not love me.

If you think that I should pretend to be a straight cis man, then you are full of nothing but hatred for me.

Then it is a good thing I don't want that.

I don't know many people who do.

[Nature-Spirits]

The mental health experts say that transition (for trans people) and not having to hide who you are (for LGBT+ people in general) is the healthiest thing you can do. Conversion therapy quite literally kills.

I don't know why you assume I am for conversion therapy or for LGBT people having to hide who they are.

Because you said that to avoid "eternal damnation", we can't be openly LGBT+. And when people holding those kinds of opinions talk about mental health support for LGBT+ people, they usually mean conversion therapy. Sorry if that's not what you meant, but that's been my experience.

[Jumalariik]

I'd like to point out that you don't actually know much about my life.

Losing 3 very close relatives in 4 months isn't a ground for joy. Thing is, no matter who you are, what privileges you have, losing the people you love the most is painful. I don't want to turn this into depression olympics. Don't act as though you are the only one to feel sadness. You have it a lot worse than I do. Again though, don't just presume. The light of Jesus Christ has often been the only light that shines. Christianity may make your life bad, but it makes my life a lot better.

So why do you want to make everybody live by Christian morals? If you admit that it's making people's lives bad and still advocate for them to live by them, what kind of person does that make you?

....

Happiness is not the same as wellbeing. So I don't see how this really makes sense.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

If you think that I should pretend to be a straight cis man, then you want me to kill myself.

If you think that I should pretend to be a straight cis man, then you do not love me.

If you think that I should pretend to be a straight cis man, then you are full of nothing but hatred for me.

You can then join a denomination that accepts you for who you are, and a church where you feel comfortable.

You don't have to pretend you're straight, or cis, for me to love you. I still love you regardless. And I want you to be happy. If you are happy being non-straight and non-cis, I have no issues against that. Like I said, I might be a worse sinner than you are, and I am not the one who should tell you "get that speck of dust out of your eye", when I have a fucking log inside mine.

[Jumalariik]

I don't know why you assume I am for conversion therapy or for LGBT people having to hide who they are.

Because you said that to avoid "eternal damnation", we can't be openly LGBT+. And when people holding those kinds of opinions talk about mental health support for LGBT+ people, they usually mean conversion therapy. Sorry if that's not what you meant, but that's been my experience.

No. Nobody says you need to hide being LGBT. No important authority in the modern era says that.

[Descentia Angellia]

No. Your not. I'm tired of this bullshit religous peddal. You don't love me. You want to ban everything that allows me to live a happy, healthy life because you have some slavish devotion to a man you can't even prove fucking exists. You don't love me. You want to fucking hurt me.

^ I couldn't say it any better.

I have to say that being Pro-something actually is better when it's pro-what that something wants. It's like telling me you're pro-vegetarian and saying that you want all vegetarians to eat bacon because it is the enjoyment they deserve. It's ridiculous to say that, isn't it? Sure, the comparison is a bit weak, but I'm just trying to raise a point.

And that means you're about as pro-LGBT+ as a lamp. Being pro-LGBT+ should be allowing and encouraging them to find their own happiness, and letting them just be themselves - instead of forcing them to be someone they're not. I understand - Christianity is important to you, and as someone who actually does sometimes attend church, I'm not against the religion. But I'm against what Christianity stands for in this day and age, when people are actually being oppressed as a result of who they like or who they feel they are.

(Plus, when it comes to the bible, there are lots of things we end up finding backward-thinking. Why not treat the anti-LGBT+ stuff in the bible as the same?)

[Soldati Senza Confini]

So why do you want to make everybody live by Christian morals? If you admit that it's making people's lives bad and still advocate for them to live by them, what kind of person does that make you?

....

Happiness is not the same as wellbeing. So I don't see how this really makes sense.

In what universe is this even remotely correct?

[Jumalariik]

I'd like to point out that you don't actually know much about my life.

Losing 3 very close relatives in 4 months isn't a ground for joy. Thing is, no matter who you are, what privileges you have, losing the people you love the most is painful. I don't want to turn this into depression olympics. Don't act as though you are the only one to feel sadness. You have it a lot worse than I do. Again though, don't just presume. The light of Jesus Christ has often been the only light that shines. Christianity may make your life bad, but it makes my life a lot better.

And if it makes your life a lot better, why would you want to make someone else's life bad in this world by saying "Oh I care about you" but then go "only if you don't come with your gay shit around here"?

If you want to bring family into this, I lost my entire family due to a sinful action. They were all Christians, but they still sinned, and they sinned worse than an LGBT person sins. So being LGBT, for me, is a spit in the bucket in my opinion, after all the shit I've gone through.

I'm sorry for what happened. I didn't intend to bring family into this, it's bad form, but this was turning personal and I did not start that.

[Jumalariik]

....

Happiness is not the same as wellbeing. So I don't see how this really makes sense.

In what universe is this even remotely correct?

In this one.

If you eat only lard or something because it gives happiness, that is not wellbeing.

[Socialist Nordia]

Ok, but why is homosexual sex inherently worse and must be repented for? It doesn't make sense to me.

That's the thing, they're not.

If your only sin is to engage in LGBT acts and you try to live a Christian life, that's an issue in Christianity, but not something people should get worked over in my opinion. Hell, I might be a worse sinner than you are, even if I am heterosexual.

I'm actually cis and heterosexual. I still care

[United Marxist Nations]

I don't know why you assume I am for conversion therapy or for LGBT people having to hide who they are.

Because you said that to avoid "eternal damnation", we can't be openly LGBT+. And when people holding those kinds of opinions talk about mental health support for LGBT+ people, they usually mean conversion therapy. Sorry if that's not what you meant, but that's been my experience.

I never said that at all. There are many Christians who openly have homosexual attractions (including myself, at times, though not to any extreme degree), and who have a misalignment of gender and sex, and it would be extremely harmful to a person to pretend to be someone they aren't. Instead, there should be ready support structures to aid people of faith who struggle with such things.

[Nature-Spirits]

So why do you want to make everybody live by Christian morals? If you admit that it's making people's lives bad and still advocate for them to live by them, what kind of person does that make you?

....

Happiness is not the same as wellbeing. So I don't see how this really makes sense.

I don't see what measure of wellbeing doesn't involve happiness, but I suppose that's a difference in philosophy.

If you think that I should pretend to be a straight cis man, then you want me to kill myself.

If you think that I should pretend to be a straight cis man, then you do not love me.

If you think that I should pretend to be a straight cis man, then you are full of nothing but hatred for me.

You can then join a denomination that accepts you for who you are, and a church where you feel comfortable.

You don't have to pretend you're straight, or cis, for me to love you. I still love you regardless. And I want you to be happy. If you are happy being non-straight and non-cis, I have no issues against that. Like I said, I might be a worse sinner than you are, and I am not the one who should tell you "get that speck of dust out of your eye", when I have a fucking log inside mine.

Eh, Christianity's not for me, but I still think you're a pretty cool guy and I totally respect your point of view.

[Jumalariik]

Yes. We are both pro LGBT+. We love LGBT people because we are urged to love all people. We want what we think is best for everybody, which is the Gospel and the One true faith. Being pro- something is not being pro- what something wants. It means you want the best interests as you see it for that thing.

No. Your not. I'm tired of this bullshit religous peddal. You don't love me. You want to ban everything that allows me to live a happy, healthy life because you have some slavish devotion to a man you can't even prove fucking exists. You don't love me. You want to fucking hurt me.

You don't have to believe me. I'm sorry that you don't think I can have a sincere affection for somebody despite them being LGBT. Clearly you do not know me personally. If I didn't have respect and a desire for your happiness and wellbeing I wouldn't try to be kind and polite. I'm just stating an opinion that has nothing to do with if i love you as a person or not.

[Renewed Imperial Germany]

Can we take two minutes to calm the hell down please?

No. Catholicism has ruined my life. Christianity, a religion that purports to be one of 'love,' has ruined my life. If you plan on defending their shit, leave, just fucking leave.

[Nature-Spirits]

Because you said that to avoid "eternal damnation", we can't be openly LGBT+. And when people holding those kinds of opinions talk about mental health support for LGBT+ people, they usually mean conversion therapy. Sorry if that's not what you meant, but that's been my experience.

I never said that at all. There are many Christians who openly have homosexual attractions (including myself, at times, though not to any extreme degree), and who have a misalignment of gender and sex, and it would be extremely harmful to a person to pretend to be someone they aren't. Instead, there should be ready support structures to aid people of faith who struggle with such things.

Now this, I can actually agree with. I know that a lot of religious LGBT+ people struggle to reconcile their LGBT+ identity and their faith, and I think that it's important for people to work through that.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

That's the thing, they're not.

If your only sin is to engage in LGBT acts and you try to live a Christian life, that's an issue in Christianity, but not something people should get worked over in my opinion. Hell, I might be a worse sinner than you are, even if I am heterosexual.

I'm actually cis and heterosexual. I still care

When I mean "not something people should get worked over" I mean Christians, personally.

Christians have this bad habit of losing their shit when someone is LGBT in their church. Why? Do they think gay people want to start an orgy in the middle of Church?

Personally, as a Christian, I find this habit of Christians ridiculous. Jesus told us to love one another as he loves us. God rains upon the good person and the evil person, so who am I to discriminate against them, and who am I to tell them anything about their sins. Again, they might have a speck of dust in their eye, while I might have a log in mine.

[United Marxist Nations]

Can we take two minutes to calm the hell down please?

No. Catholicism has ruined my life. Christianity, a religion that purports to be one of 'love,' has ruined my life. If you plan on defending their shit, leave, just fucking leave.

Have you ever considered talking to your priest about it at confession? He couldn't 'rat you out'. And he probably has experience helping people cope, or could even be LGBT himself.

[Renewed Imperial Germany]

No. Your not. I'm tired of this bullshit religous peddal. You don't love me. You want to ban everything that allows me to live a happy, healthy life because you have some slavish devotion to a man you can't even prove fucking exists. You don't love me. You want to fucking hurt me.

You don't have to believe me. I'm sorry that you don't think I can have a sincere affection for somebody despite them being LGBT. Clearly you do not know me personally. If I didn't have respect and a desire for your happiness and wellbeing I wouldn't try to be kind and polite. I'm just stating an opinion that has nothing to do with if i love you as a person or not.

If you love me then why do you push bullshit that ruins my ability to be happy and healthy? Thats not love. Thats selfishness.

[Descentia Angellia]

In what universe is this even remotely correct?

In this one.

If you eat only lard or something because it gives happiness, that is not wellbeing.

According to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary :
Happiness : the state of being happy
Wellbeing : the state of being happy, healthy, or successful

While wellbeing isn't EXACTLY the same as happiness, happiness and healthiness factor into wellbeing. It's unhealthy to suppress emotions over long periods of time, and it's definitely not happiness for the LGBTQA+ to have to pretend to be something they're not or face cruel treatments. So, if you only eat lard because it gives happiness, it isn't really wellbeing - but if you are allowed to be who you want to be without any prejudice because it makes you happy, that's wellbeing.

[Renewed Imperial Germany]

No. Catholicism has ruined my life. Christianity, a religion that purports to be one of 'love,' has ruined my life. If you plan on defending their shit, leave, just fucking leave.

Have you ever considered talking to your priest about it at confession? He couldn't 'rat you out'. And he probably has experience helping people cope, or could even be LGBT himself.

I am not about to talk to a propagandist for a religion that hates a central part of me being.

[Freefall11111]

In what universe is this even remotely correct?

In this one.

If you eat only lard or something because it gives happiness, that is not wellbeing.

Well-being can be defined as being in the state of happiness.

So yes, it can be.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Can we take two minutes to calm the hell down please?

No. Catholicism has ruined my life. Christianity, a religion that purports to be one of 'love,' has ruined my life. If you plan on defending their shit, leave, just fucking leave.

Not all Christians are as anti-LGBT as the congregation you were in.

I'm sorry you had to go through that, but not all of us Christians are people who want to condemn you. You have to at least acknowledge that.

[United Marxist Nations]

Have you ever considered talking to your priest about it at confession? He couldn't 'rat you out'. And he probably has experience helping people cope, or could even be LGBT himself.

I am not about to talk to a propagandist for a religion that hates a central part of me being.

Don't you have to pretend to be a Roman Catholic already anyway?