NSG, extraordinarily liberal?

[Harelia]

So I can remove my tin-foil hat now...?

[Prussia-Steinbach]

Things are getting better in much of the world, but women are still behind men overall in nearly every country. It's an enormous problem and still in many ways a very present reality.

In the Western world, in what ways are women behind? They have the right to vote, they hold citizenship equal to men, they have the same protections under the law, they can own property, and (1 they earn the same income as men in the same job.) In the US, they can even serve in military combat roles, including Special Forces. If anything, men are at a disadvantage, being subject to the military draft (in the US), (2 lacking maternity leave), and (3 having an unfair bias in rape cases.)

1. Nope, and I sourced that.

2. ...you realize men can't have babies, right? God, am I talking to a ten year old in rural Georgia?

3. Oh now this is just pure unadulterated bull shit. You should be ashamed. Only 2% of rapists ever spend a day in prison.

[Excidium Planetis]

Source?

And, in what nation? Obviously it has not been achieved in countries like Saudi Arabia, but I believe it has in America.

This was easy.

America. And everywhere else, though to different degrees.

http://m.washingtonexaminer.com/a-yearl ... le/2563010
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014240 ... 2909957472
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christina ... 73804.html
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20 ... r-pay-gap/

Look, I can use sources too.

[Steamtopia]

NSG is neo-colonial not liberal my friend and extremly pro western

Neo-colonial? How?

[Prussia-Steinbach]

So I can remove my tin-foil hat now...?

no

[Harelia]

How the hell is OP already Ex-Nation? Along with a few others here?

Who's flinging invisi-B&hammers?

I am not comfy right now. This is making me question NSG's liberalness.

The OP was a puppeteering troll who tried to double play in the abortion thread.

SO the thread just devolved into Feminism...?

Don't we have like eight other threads of that stuff? I'm kinda surprised this hasn't been locked yet, honestly. At least it's healthy debate sorta....

If anything, I'm rather proud of almost everyone. Almost everyone seems a lot more right-wing than I thought?

Or is it left...? The conservative one. That's right, isn't it...?

[Steamtopia]

Things are getting better in much of the world, but women are still behind men overall in nearly every country. It's an enormous problem and still in many ways a very present reality.

In the Western world, in what ways are women behind? They have the right to vote, they hold citizenship equal to men, they have the same protections under the law, they can own property, and they earn the same income as men in the same job. In the US, they can even serve in military combat roles, including Special Forces. If anything, men are at a disadvantage, being subject to the military draft (in the US), lacking maternity leave, and having an unfair bias in rape cases.

You can flip this any way you want if you try hard enough. Women are disproportionally raped, is that evidence they're oppressed?

[Prussia-Steinbach]

This was easy.

America. And everywhere else, though to different degrees.

http://m.washingtonexaminer.com/a-yearl ... le/2563010
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014240 ... 2909957472
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christina ... 73804.html
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20 ... r-pay-gap/

Look, I can use sources too.

Half of those are blogs/commentaries.

https://web.stanford.edu/group/scspi/_m ... search.pdf
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2014/0 ... -gap-myth/

[Cannot think of a name]

I can't help but feel that somewhere along the line the conservative movement in the US got the idea that if they just periodically asked this loaded question it would cause people to shift right in defense.

[Mysterious Stranger]

Things are getting better in much of the world, but women are still behind men overall in nearly every country. It's an enormous problem and still in many ways a very present reality.

In the Western world, in what ways are women behind? They have the right to vote, they hold citizenship equal to men, they have the same protections under the law, they can own property, and they earn the same income as men in the same job. In the US, they can even serve in military combat roles, including Special Forces. If anything, men are at a disadvantage, being subject to the military draft (in the US), lacking maternity leave, and having an unfair bias in rape cases.

Women are underrepresented in that military, at only 15%, underrepresented in high paying jobs, the stem field, and CEO positions, while being over represented in low paying jobs. Approximately 20% of women in the United States have been raped, compared to approximately 5% of men. In particular, girls aged between 16 and 19 are four times more likely than the general population to be raped. There's a lot more, extremely well cited statistics on violence against women here and here.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

I can't help but feel that somewhere along the line the conservative movement in the US got the idea that if they just periodically asked this loaded question it would cause people to shift right in defense.

Well it seems to have worked.

Nice to see you again, btw

[Excidium Planetis]

In the Western world, in what ways are women behind? They have the right to vote, they hold citizenship equal to men, they have the same protections under the law, they can own property, and (1 they earn the same income as men in the same job.) In the US, they can even serve in military combat roles, including Special Forces. If anything, men are at a disadvantage, being subject to the military draft (in the US), (2 lacking maternity leave), and (3 having an unfair bias in rape cases.)

1. Nope, and I sourced that.

2. ...you realize men can't have babies, right? God, am I talking to a ten year old in rural Georgia?

3. Oh now this is just pure unadulterated bull shit. You should be ashamed. Only 2% of rapists ever spend a day in prison.

1. I quoted 4 sources that disagreed with your 1 source. That means I win right?

2. Oh, so I guess I don't have a dad? I was just spontaneously born in my mother, like Jesus? That's cool.

3. That's a myth.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fac ... tatistics/
http://www.sarsonline.org/resources-sta ... ws-statics

And I was talking about the fact that men who are raped by women are even less likely to secure a conviction of their assailant.

[Excidium Planetis]

In the Western world, in what ways are women behind? They have the right to vote, they hold citizenship equal to men, they have the same protections under the law, they can own property, and they earn the same income as men in the same job. In the US, they can even serve in military combat roles, including Special Forces. If anything, men are at a disadvantage, being subject to the military draft (in the US), lacking maternity leave, and having an unfair bias in rape cases.

You can flip this any way you want if you try hard enough. Women are disproportionally raped, is that evidence they're oppressed?

No, women who raped men are even less likely to be convicted than men who rape women, which itself is already low.

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

1. Still seems pretty current to me.

It's really a matter of perspective, I guess.

2. ...really? Because I don't see that as even being common. Existent, sure, but not the usual.

I see it all the time, personally. Families where the father has strong control seem anachronistic to me, and would to most of the people I know.

3. Yeah, but men obviously and blatantly dominate politics in every country in the world.
4. Pope's a man and always has been, so's the Archbishop of Canterbury, Dalai Lama, etc.

I was pretty clear that I wasn't talking about the rest of the world, and I'm definitely not one to accuse religions of catching up with the times.

5. How? Because I don't see it, unless you mean shit like holding doors open for them.

The social dynamics in many situations basically include men having a duty to bend over backwards to meet the needs and desires of women.

6. Not as much as men. I'm seeing most CEOs being men. I'm seeing more men owning the property their family lives on.

When you're married, the property is owned jointly. I work in insurance, and I get to see what happens when people divorce. Very often, the ex-wife keeps the house.

[Steamtopia]

You can flip this any way you want if you try hard enough. Women are disproportionally raped, is that evidence they're oppressed?

No, women who raped men are even less likely to be convicted than men who rape women, which itself is already low.

And? Women are raped far more in the first place.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

1. Nope, and I sourced that.

2. ...you realize men can't have babies, right? God, am I talking to a ten year old in rural Georgia?

3. Oh now this is just pure unadulterated bull shit. You should be ashamed. Only 2% of rapists ever spend a day in prison.

1. I quoted 4 sources that disagreed with your 1 source. That means I win right?

2. Oh, so I guess I don't have a dad? I was just spontaneously born in my mother, like Jesus? That's cool.

3. That's a myth.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fac ... tatistics/
http://www.sarsonline.org/resources-sta ... ws-statics

4. And I was talking about the fact that men who are raped by women are even less likely to secure a conviction of their assailant.

1. Just ignore the fact that two of yours were blogs/commentaries and the two more I provided. Yeah. Let's do that.

2. If you honestly believe men go through as much as women do during pregnancy and childbirth... no, you just can't believe that.

3. I'm not even going to continue this line of discussion, because we can all pull sources out of the internet all night long.

4. And how many men are raped every year compared to women?

[Excidium Planetis]

In the Western world, in what ways are women behind? They have the right to vote, they hold citizenship equal to men, they have the same protections under the law, they can own property, and they earn the same income as men in the same job. In the US, they can even serve in military combat roles, including Special Forces. If anything, men are at a disadvantage, being subject to the military draft (in the US), lacking maternity leave, and having an unfair bias in rape cases.

Women are underrepresented in that military, at only 15%, underrepresented in high paying jobs, the stem field, and CEO positions, while being over represented in low paying jobs. Approximately 20% of women in the United States have been raped, compared to approximately 5% of men. In particular, girls aged between 16 and 19 are four times more likely than the general population to be raped. There's a lot more, extremely well cited statistics on violence against women here and here.

That isn't evidence of inequality. Women don't join the military either by choice or because they fail to meet the physical qualifications. If no women decided to join the military, they'd make up 0%, does that mean there's inequality?
Women get raped more... that isn't because of inequality either. Maybe it has something to do with it being physically easier to rape a woman? Or maybe it's just criminal preference? 80% of rape victims are white, so I guess white people are oppressed in America?

[Excidium Planetis]

No, women who raped men are even less likely to be convicted than men who rape women, which itself is already low.

And? Women are raped far more in the first place.

White people are more likely to be raped... white are oppressed, apparently.
And you justify rapists getting away with rape just because the victims are in the minority? That's seriously messed up. "It doesn't matter that those male victims didn't get justice, more women are raped anyways."

[Steamtopia]

And? Women are raped far more in the first place.

White people are more likely to be raped... white are oppressed, apparently.
And you justify rapists getting away with rape just because the victims are in the minority? That's seriously messed up. "It doesn't matter that those male victims didn't get justice, more women are raped anyways."

Good lord, you've constructed a good three strawmen in one post. Could you try any harder? Go back and read my posts in response to yours, because none of what you said is a belief I hold. If it's still unclear what point I'm trying to get across, feel free to shout and I'll try and make it even simpler.

[Mysterious Stranger]

Women are underrepresented in that military, at only 15%, underrepresented in high paying jobs, the stem field, and CEO positions, while being over represented in low paying jobs. Approximately 20% of women in the United States have been raped, compared to approximately 5% of men. In particular, girls aged between 16 and 19 are four times more likely than the general population to be raped. There's a lot more, extremely well cited statistics on violence against women here and here.

That isn't evidence of inequality. Women don't join the military either by choice or because they fail to meet the physical qualifications. If no women decided to join the military, they'd make up 0%, does that mean there's inequality?
Women get raped more... that isn't because of inequality either. Maybe it has something to do with it being physically easier to rape a woman? Or maybe it's just criminal preference? 80% of rape victims are white, so I guess white people are oppressed in America?

But women make up 50% of the population of the United States. Whites aren't overrepresented among rape victims, they're underrepresented. But women are overrepresented by an enormous margin. If criminals are systematically targeting one particular demographic in this country, and we're not stopping it, that's an enormous problem. Still more so if many, many anaylists have been trying to blow the whistle that the way we treat that demographic in our culture is closely tied to it.

[Excidium Planetis]

1. I quoted 4 sources that disagreed with your 1 source. That means I win right?

2. Oh, so I guess I don't have a dad? I was just spontaneously born in my mother, like Jesus? That's cool.

3. That's a myth.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fac ... tatistics/
http://www.sarsonline.org/resources-sta ... ws-statics

4. And I was talking about the fact that men who are raped by women are even less likely to secure a conviction of their assailant.

1. Just ignore the fact that two of yours were blogs/commentaries and the two more I provided. Yeah. Let's do that.

2. If you honestly believe men go through as much as women do during pregnancy and childbirth... no, you just can't believe that.

3. I'm not even going to continue this line of discussion, because we can all pull sources out of the internet all night long.

4. And how many men are raped every year compared to women?

1. Your third point.

2. So I suppose those dad's aren't allowed to take time off work because of their gender? That's true inequality right there.

3. Yes.

4. That makes it okay? The fact that 1/8 of rape victims have a bias against them is justified by the fact that they are in the minority?

[Prussia-Steinbach]

1. Just ignore the fact that two of yours were blogs/commentaries and the two more I provided. Yeah. Let's do that.

2. If you honestly believe men go through as much as women do during pregnancy and childbirth... no, you just can't believe that.

3. I'm not even going to continue this line of discussion, because we can all pull sources out of the internet all night long.

4. And how many men are raped every year compared to women?

1. Your third point.

2. So I suppose those dad's aren't allowed to take time off work because of their gender? That's true inequality right there.

3. Yes.

4. That makes it okay? The fact that 1/8 of rape victims have a bias against them is justified by the fact that they are in the minority?

2. No, it's because they aren't fucking pregnant and they don't fucking have to push a fucking child out of their fucking vagina.

4. That is not what I fucking said and you know it.

[Excidium Planetis]

That isn't evidence of inequality. Women don't join the military either by choice or because they fail to meet the physical qualifications. If no women decided to join the military, they'd make up 0%, does that mean there's inequality?
Women get raped more... that isn't because of inequality either. Maybe it has something to do with it being physically easier to rape a woman? Or maybe it's just criminal preference? 80% of rape victims are white, so I guess white people are oppressed in America?

But women make up 50% of the population of the United States. Whites aren't overrepresented among rape victims, they're underrepresented. But women are overrepresented by an enormous margin. If criminals are systematically targeting one particular demographic in this country, and we're not stopping it, that's an enormous problem. Still more so if many, many anaylists have been trying to blow the whistle that the way we treat that demographic in our culture is closely tied to it.

White non-Hispanics make up 63% of the US population.
They make up 80% of rape victims.

How is that underrepresentation? That's almost 33% more than expected!

[Prussia-Steinbach]

But women make up 50% of the population of the United States. Whites aren't overrepresented among rape victims, they're underrepresented. But women are overrepresented by an enormous margin. If criminals are systematically targeting one particular demographic in this country, and we're not stopping it, that's an enormous problem. Still more so if many, many anaylists have been trying to blow the whistle that the way we treat that demographic in our culture is closely tied to it.

White non-Hispanics make up 63% of the US population.
They make up 80% of rape victims.

How is that underrepresentation? That's almost 33% more than expected!

I'd like to see a statistic for the color of the rapists.

[Excidium Planetis]

1. Your third point.

2. So I suppose those dad's aren't allowed to take time off work because of their gender? That's true inequality right there.

3. Yes.

4. That makes it okay? The fact that 1/8 of rape victims have a bias against them is justified by the fact that they are in the minority?

2. No, it's because they aren't fucking pregnant and they don't fucking have to push a fucking child out of their fucking vagina.

4. That is not what I fucking said and you know it.

2. Exactly. So an inherent bias against gender based solely on physical characteristics. I think we should go back to banning women from combat, since physically they are weaker than men on average and have slower average mile times.

4. So what are you saying? You certainly don't seem to be acknowledging the bias against male victims.