Shooting at Muhammad cartoon conference in Dallas

[Steamtopia]

all these direct and implied arguments of 'provocation', 'they were dicks', 'did this on purpose, knowing what would happen' etc...one would think that some people shot at the two and they shot back in self defense..

by saying all these things, you are basically agreeing with that organiser lady's anti-islamic views - that islam is a violent religion and muslims are violent people, that they respond to ideas and words with weapons and violence.

Well, Islam is a violent religion. Like most religion.

[Dyakovo]

No, we are saying that there are radical elements within Islam, and that they could be provoked by such a thing. Whether or not such a provocation is worth it to make the statement that they were making aside, the fact itself seems obvious.

define radical.

a day ago, these two guys would have been thought to be very pious religious muslims.

now, they are radicals?

why? this is exactly what islam calls for. to use force to stop people offending islam (blasphemy etc). in muslim majority countries, laws are passed and these things are institutionalized and non-muslims are intimidated enough to not even think about doing anything like this.

in significant muslim minority countries - this would have caused riots and much more deaths.

in miniscule minority country like USA where muslims are under constant survival and general intimidation by police - only two turned up to attack the blasphemers.

muslims need to understand that they cannot counter words and ideas with violence.

just because an anti islamic bigot is making this point, does not lessen the point.

if a feminist walked about in skimpy clothes and got raped and blamed male mentality - NONE of you would be saying 'she is doing this to make a statement'.

Actually, no that is not accurate.

[The Free Democratic Republic of Freedom]

Yes, expressing views you don't like is equivalent to murder.

Not the equivalence to any act just the people and their inferior ideologies are something I don't like. I don't like Islam nor do I like the west

This just in, according to our correspondent, Maniskorea, any ideology which he disagrees with, is automatically objectively inferior to his own.
Anyway, what is this grand western ideology that you keep calling so "inferior", and that apparently all "bloody westerner"s hold, like some kind of hive-mind?

[Aryavartha]

Actually, no that is not accurate.

yes it is.

blasphemy is corporal punishment...varying from lashing to beheading. references in quran, hadith and practices in muslim countries vouch for my argument.


for starters, from wiki.

It has been narrated on the authority of Jabir that the Messenger of Allah said: Who will kill Ka'b b. Ashraf? He has maligned Allah, the Exalted, and His Messenger. Muhammad b. Maslama said: Messenger of Allah, do you wish that I should kill him? He said: Yes. He said: Permit me to talk (to him in the way I deem fit). He said: Talk (as you like).

— Sahih Muslim, 19:4436



Narrated Ali ibn AbuTalib: A Jewess used to abuse the Prophet and disparage him. A man strangled her till she died. The Apostle of Allah declared that no recompense was payable for her blood.

— Sunan Abu Dawood, 38:4349 see also Sunan Abu Dawood, 38:4348

[Salus Maior]

all these direct and implied arguments of 'provocation', 'they were dicks', 'did this on purpose, knowing what would happen' etc...one would think that some people shot at the two and they shot back in self defense..

by saying all these things, you are basically agreeing with that organiser lady's anti-islamic views - that islam is a violent religion and muslims are violent people, that they respond to ideas and words with weapons and violence.

Well, Islam is a violent religion. Like most religion.

Last I checked, my religion hasn't committed religious-centric violence in centuries.

[Lyrian Oligarchic Royal Empire]

Well, Islam is a violent religion. Like most religion.

Last I checked, my religion hasn't committed religious-centric violence in centuries.

Which religion is that?

[Aryavartha]

all these direct and implied arguments of 'provocation', 'they were dicks', 'did this on purpose, knowing what would happen' etc...one would think that some people shot at the two and they shot back in self defense..

by saying all these things, you are basically agreeing with that organiser lady's anti-islamic views - that islam is a violent religion and muslims are violent people, that they respond to ideas and words with weapons and violence.

Not really. It's acknowledging that there are fuckwads out there who will react violently to having their religion mocked.

People here are more concerned about 'why did they organise such an event, knowing that this will happen'

than the intolerance and unjustified violence itself.

as i said, it does not matter that the organiser is a vile person with vile bigoted views. violence is not a justified response.

i can say that muslims proclaiming loudly during in their azaan (prayer call) that there is no god but allah - is a very vile offensive thing to say and provocative.

i don't want to kill them for it, regardless of what my religion tells me.

[Steamtopia]

Well, Islam is a violent religion. Like most religion.

Last I checked, my religion hasn't committed religious-centric violence in centuries.

Are you a Pastafarian?

[Aryavartha]

there is the law of the land. and then there is common sense, personal ethics, not being a dick/asshole etc. and then there is religious practices/beliefs/edicts etc.

people need to figure out how to manage contradictions and not insist that one is always to be followed when it contradicts others.

[Jamzmania]

all these direct and implied arguments of 'provocation', 'they were dicks', 'did this on purpose, knowing what would happen' etc...one would think that some people shot at the two and they shot back in self defense..

by saying all these things, you are basically agreeing with that organiser lady's anti-islamic views - that islam is a violent religion and muslims are violent people, that they respond to ideas and words with weapons and violence.

Well, Islam is a violent religion. Like most religion.

Christianity is not violent, at least. Neither are many other religions I am sure.

[Lyrian Oligarchic Royal Empire]

Well, Islam is a violent religion. Like most religion.

Christianity is not violent, at least. Neither are many other religions I am sure.

The Lord's Resistance Army would like to discuss the violence thing with you.

[Neutraligon]

Christianity is not violent, at least. Neither are many other religions I am sure.

The Lord's Resistance Army would like to discuss the violence thing with you.

As would those who bomb abortion clinics and murder abortion doctors.

[Steamtopia]

Well, Islam is a violent religion. Like most religion.

Christianity is not violent, at least. Neither are many other religions I am sure.

Christianity? Not violent? You seem to have forgotten the Crusades. And the Inquisition. And the hundreds of years worth of central European wars.

[Jamzmania]

Christianity is not violent, at least. Neither are many other religions I am sure.

Christianity? Not violent? You seem to have forgotten the Crusades. And the Inquisition. And the hundreds of years worth of central European wars.

You seem to have forgotten the charities, the hope, the nonviolent and loving message of Jesus Christ. The Crusades were in response to years of Muslim aggression, inquisitions rarely resulted in deaths, and European wars can be attributed to political power struggles more than Christian beliefs.

[Lyrian Oligarchic Royal Empire]

Christianity? Not violent? You seem to have forgotten the Crusades. And the Inquisition. And the hundreds of years worth of central European wars.

You seem to have forgotten the charities, the hope, the nonviolent and loving message of Jesus Christ. The Crusades were in response to years of Muslim aggression, inquisitions rarely resulted in deaths, and European wars can be attributed to political power struggles more than Christian beliefs.

The Troubles in Ireland, the Lord's Resistance Army, bombings of various abortion clinics, firebombings of Harlem and other black neighborhoods, the list does go on extensively.

[Jamzmania]

The Lord's Resistance Army would like to discuss the violence thing with you.

As would those who bomb abortion clinics and murder abortion doctors.

The LRA is also a mixture of mysticism and a personality cult, and attacks against abortion clinics/doctors are rare and far between.

[Lyrian Oligarchic Royal Empire]

As would those who bomb abortion clinics and murder abortion doctors.

The LRA is also a mixture of mysticism and a personality cult, and attacks against abortion clinics/doctors are rare and far between.

The LRA is listed by every reputable intelligence agency as a Christian organization.

[Steamtopia]

Christianity? Not violent? You seem to have forgotten the Crusades. And the Inquisition. And the hundreds of years worth of central European wars.

You seem to have forgotten the charities, the hope, the nonviolent and loving message of Jesus Christ. The Crusades were in response to years of Muslim aggression, inquisitions rarely resulted in deaths, and European wars can be attributed to political power struggles more than Christian beliefs.

Right, Jesus was very nonviolent. That's why we have passages like John 2:15, Luke 22:36,38, Matthew 24:37, Deuteronomy 21:18, Leviticus 20:9, and 2 Peter 3:10. Or maybe not.

[Reichsland]

This is about 15 minutes from where I live. Scary. While I don't agree with these antagonistic conferences, I don't think they should be banned either. Free speech, open forum of ideas, and whatnot.

But this is, once again, religious fundamentalism making its wonderful contributions to society. But now the Christian Right will get their panties in a wad about "those damned muslims invading our country" and pretend like they're somehow better...

You shouldn't lump every Christian into that category of folk. Not all of us think we are a better class of person than others.

[Neutraligon]

Christianity? Not violent? You seem to have forgotten the Crusades. And the Inquisition. And the hundreds of years worth of central European wars.

You seem to have forgotten the charities, the hope, the nonviolent and loving message of Jesus Christ. The Crusades were in response to years of Muslim aggression, inquisitions rarely resulted in deaths, and European wars can be attributed to political power struggles more than Christian beliefs.

None of which disproves the fact that Christians and Christianity is not non-violent. OK we can continue, let's look at the persecution of the native Americans, and the forced indoctrination of the children, let's look at the murder of homosexuals, let's look at the people killing their children in Africa because they think they are witches. Let's look at the history of antisemitism...I can keep going.

[Neutraligon]

This is about 15 minutes from where I live. Scary. While I don't agree with these antagonistic conferences, I don't think they should be banned either. Free speech, open forum of ideas, and whatnot.

But this is, once again, religious fundamentalism making its wonderful contributions to society. But now the Christian Right will get their panties in a wad about "those damned muslims invading our country" and pretend like they're somehow better...

You shouldn't lump every Christian into that category of folk. Not all of us think we are a better class of person than others.

We don't, and we also don't lump every Muslim.

[Reichsland]

You shouldn't lump every Christian into that category of folk. Not all of us think we are a better class of person than others.

We don't, and we also don't lump every Muslim.

Exactly.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

No, we are saying that there are radical elements within Islam, and that they could be provoked by such a thing. Whether or not such a provocation is worth it to make the statement that they were making aside, the fact itself seems obvious.

define radical.

a day ago, these two guys would have been thought to be very pious religious muslims.

now, they are radicals?

why? this is exactly what islam calls for. to use force to stop people offending islam (blasphemy etc). in muslim majority countries, laws are passed and these things are institutionalized and non-muslims are intimidated enough to not even think about doing anything like this.

in significant muslim minority countries - this would have caused riots and much more deaths.

in miniscule minority country like USA where muslims are under constant survival and general intimidation by police - only two turned up to attack the blasphemers.

muslims need to understand that they cannot counter words and ideas with violence.

just because an anti islamic bigot is making this point, does not lessen the point.

if a feminist walked about in skimpy clothes and got raped and blamed male mentality - NONE of you would be saying 'she is doing this to make a statement'.

I don't know how I would have described them previous to the attack.

Islam is not the only religion that calls for violence against enemies, nor is it the only one where people will commit said violence.

The "skimpy clothes" bit has been debated to death by now.

[Gauthier]

define radical.

a day ago, these two guys would have been thought to be very pious religious muslims.

now, they are radicals?

why? this is exactly what islam calls for. to use force to stop people offending islam (blasphemy etc). in muslim majority countries, laws are passed and these things are institutionalized and non-muslims are intimidated enough to not even think about doing anything like this.

in significant muslim minority countries - this would have caused riots and much more deaths.

in miniscule minority country like USA where muslims are under constant survival and general intimidation by police - only two turned up to attack the blasphemers.

muslims need to understand that they cannot counter words and ideas with violence.

just because an anti islamic bigot is making this point, does not lessen the point.

if a feminist walked about in skimpy clothes and got raped and blamed male mentality - NONE of you would be saying 'she is doing this to make a statement'.

I don't know how I would have described them previous to the attack.

Islam is not the only religion that calls for violence against enemies, nor is it the only one where people will commit said violence.

The "skimpy clothes" bit has been debated to death by now.

The skimpy clothes comparison is disingenuous, given that the most accurate approximation to the contest organizers would be a woman wearing provocative clothing who also cockteases every man in her vicinity and laughs after leading them on and then slamming the proverbial door in the face. Not minding her own business.

[United Prefectures of Appia]

The Lord's Resistance Army would like to discuss the violence thing with you.

As would those who bomb abortion clinics and murder abortion doctors.

And Livix.