Shooting at Muhammad cartoon conference in Dallas

[Geilinor]

Wrap your mind around this


The Westboro Baptist Church shoots up a gay parade because it is antagonizing their beliefs. Is it the gay's fault for insulting the belief of these bible thumpers? should gays be censored because they hurt the feelings of Christians?

Was the gay parade deliberately routed in front of the WBC with every participant making lewd gestures towards its members in order to rile them up?

So much disingenuous apologism.

Apologism for what?

[Occupied Deutschland]

...
That's literally the only correct contention that could be made.

Turns out, the people who decide to shoot and kill people are the ones responsible should people get shot or killed!
Pretty basic stuff, this.

Remarkable.

So if you hold a conference, one of whose (obvious, let's be honest) aims is to provoke extremists into violence, and bystanders are killed as a result, you as the conference organiser bear no responsibility for the bystanders' deaths because you personally did not pull the trigger or throw the bomb that killed them (with the obvious caveat that the killers bear the vast majority of the responsibility for, well, killing).

No, people saying offensive shit don't bear responsibility for other people's crimes.

A Jew that calls a neo-nazi a terrible human being and a psychopath is not responsible, even partially, if said neo-nazi proceeds to pull out a handgun and shoot people.
A neo-nazi who calls a Jew a terrible human being and a degenerate is not responsible, even partially, if said Jew proceeds to pull out a handgun and shoot people.

There exists a standard for these things termed 'incitement' and 'fighting words'. Legal but 'offensive' speech does not fall under either of those. For good reason. Because it's stupid and nonsensical to include it, and renders 'free speech' as a concept completely meaningless if all one has to do to silence criticism is respond violently enough to ANY even vaguely offensive comment.

That's fucking stupid.

How the fuck do you people manage to cope with such a warped, responsibility-free concept of the right to freedom of speech?

*yawn*

Oklahoma City Bombing? Not McVeigh's fault. The IRS was asking for it! Provoking all those right-wing extremists like McVeigh with their...taxation and such.

Aurora Theater Shooting? Not the man's fault. The Dark Knight provoked him into shooting all those folks in order to emulate the Joker.

Sandy Hook? Video games.

SO MANY PROVOCATIONS! Provocations everywhere!

So why was Louis Head arrested and charged with inciting a riot for screaming "BURN THIS BITCH DOWN" again?

Because inciting a riot is different from saying offensive things.

Offensive statement: "Homosexuals are disgusting abominations on God's creation!"
Inciting a riot: "Lets go get our bats and go beat some homosexuals!"

This doesn't really require a flow-chart people.

[Gauthier]

So why was Louis Head arrested and charged with inciting a riot for screaming "BURN THIS BITCH DOWN" again?

Because inciting a riot is different from saying offensive things.

Offensive statement: "Homosexuals are disgusting abominations on God's creation!"
Inciting a riot: "Lets go get our bats and go beat some homosexuals!"

This doesn't really require a flow-chart people.

Just sophistry.

[Geilinor]

Because inciting a riot is different from saying offensive things.

Offensive statement: "Homosexuals are disgusting abominations on God's creation!"
Inciting a riot: "Lets go get our bats and go beat some homosexuals!"

This doesn't really require a flow-chart people.

Just sophistry.

"Kill these people" and "I hate these people" are completely different.

[Occupied Deutschland]

Wrap your mind around this


The Westboro Baptist Church shoots up a gay parade because it is antagonizing their beliefs. Is it the gay's fault for insulting the belief of these bible thumpers? should gays be censored because they hurt the feelings of Christians?

Was the gay parade deliberately routed in front of the WBC with every participant making lewd gestures towards its members in order to rile them up?

So much disingenuous apologism.

...
Even in your extension, the WBC shooters would still be solely in the wrong.

Because being offended isn't license to fucking kill.

[Gauthier]

Was the gay parade deliberately routed in front of the WBC with every participant making lewd gestures towards its members in order to rile them up?

So much disingenuous apologism.

...
Even in your extension, the WBC shooters would still be solely in the wrong.

Because being offended isn't license to fucking kill.

Freedom of speech isn't a Responsibility Free License either, which is what a lot of people here are insisting.

[Occupied Deutschland]

Because inciting a riot is different from saying offensive things.

Offensive statement: "Homosexuals are disgusting abominations on God's creation!"
Inciting a riot: "Lets go get our bats and go beat some homosexuals!"

This doesn't really require a flow-chart people.

Just sophistry.

Ah, so the IRS WAS responsible for the Oklahoma City Bombing.

Glad you've clarified your position as being entirely devoid of logic and worthless.

[Kiruri]

You have someone pretty much arguing it should be, and should be held complicit in the shooting.

Who is arguing that it should be illegal? The most that I'm seeing is people calling it distasteful, and holding Geller at least partially responsible due to what they're seeing as intentional provocation.

I think it's blatant provocation but Geller and others aren't really at fault. I mean, with the level of security they had, they surely knew they were bound to ruffle more than a few feathers, but they aren't at fault. And if you could quantify the level of responsibility in percentages, I would wager Geller and other organizers may get the lowest percentiles.

[Gauthier]

Just sophistry.

Ah, so the IRS WAS responsible for the Oklahoma City Bombing.

Glad you've clarified your position as being entirely devoid of logic and worthless.

And there you go again with disingenuous hyperbolic bullshit. Did the IRS deliberately orchestrate Waco and Ruby Ridge? Of course not.

It's funny how when ISIS goes around calling for people to kill in the name of jihad everyone bitches at them, but when SIOA trolls some fanatics into shooting up a place it's a capital crime to even bring that up.

[Occupied Deutschland]

Ah, so the IRS WAS responsible for the Oklahoma City Bombing.

Glad you've clarified your position as being entirely devoid of logic and worthless.

And there you go again with disingenuous hyperbolic bullshit. Did the IRS deliberately orchestrate Waco and Ruby Ridge? Of course not.

This isn't related to Waco or Ruby Ridge (you should bone up on some history to appreciate the comparison made, apparently). Their continued irresponsible actions (by your logic) led directly to McVeigh's actions. They were responsible for the deaths. Had they stopped taxing people, McVeigh would've not attacked them.

This logic is fucking stupid.

[The German Democratic Reich]

Wrap your mind around this


The Westboro Baptist Church shoots up a gay parade because it is antagonizing their beliefs. Is it the gay's fault for insulting the belief of these bible thumpers? should gays be censored because they hurt the feelings of Christians?

Was the gay parade deliberately routed in front of the WBC with every participant making lewd gestures towards its members in order to rile them up?

So much disingenuous apologism.

Wow edgy.

I should tell my jewish friends to kill me if I eat bacon around them now.

Thanks for the clarification!

[Gauthier]

And there you go again with disingenuous hyperbolic bullshit. Did the IRS deliberately orchestrate Waco and Ruby Ridge? Of course not.

This isn't related to Waco or Ruby Ridge (you should bone up on some history to appreciate the comparison made, apparently). Their continued irresponsible actions (by your logic) led directly to McVeigh's actions. They were responsible for the deaths. Had they stopped taxing people, McVeigh would've not attacked them.

This logic is fucking stupid.

The only thing stupid is how you're going on the Victim Blaming wagon, as if SIOA were traumatized by the shooting and gained no advantage or benefit from it whatsoever. Oh, and McVeigh claimed Waco and Ruby Ridge was part of the reason he bombed the building. But hey, pointing out the obvious means you approve of what happened apparently.

"Grandma just had a heart attack."
"YOU'RE CELEBRATING GRANDMA HAD A HEART ATTACK!!"

[Diopolis]

I heard about this(I live in Dallas) and most of the locals seem to think that they got what was coming.
I'm glad more people didn't die in this.

The shooters or the organizers?

Both of them.

[Gauthier]

Was the gay parade deliberately routed in front of the WBC with every participant making lewd gestures towards its members in order to rile them up?

So much disingenuous apologism.

Wow edgy.

I should tell my jewish friends to kill me if I eat bacon around them now.

Thanks for the clarification!

Not as razor edgy as equivocating a hate group with an agenda deliberately trolling for a response to innocent people minding their own business.

[The German Democratic Reich]

Wow edgy.

I should tell my jewish friends to kill me if I eat bacon around them now.

Thanks for the clarification!

Not as razor edgy as equivocating a hate group with an agenda deliberately trolling for a response to innocent people minding their own business.

The fact you are applying the term "trolling" to real life scenarios shows how little you truly understand the situation. Who really cares if it hurts your feefees, welcome to free speech. You know what, Muslims have the right to say they dislike this art exhibition as much as the anti muslims have the right to display Muhammad doing stupid shit.

Not shoot it up.

[Romalae]

My favorite drawings at this Draw Muhammad Art Exhibit were the two chalk drawings on the pavement outside.

[Gauthier]

Not as razor edgy as equivocating a hate group with an agenda deliberately trolling for a response to innocent people minding their own business.

The fact you are applying the term "trolling" to real life scenarios shows how little you truly understand the situation. Who really cares if it hurts your feefees, welcome to free speech. You know what, Muslims have the right to say they dislike this art exhibition as much as the anti muslims have the right to display Muhammad doing stupid shit.

Not shoot it up.

Because clearly the entire Muslim population of the town showed up at the convention center with guns blazing.

And yes, it is trolling. SIOA hoped that someone would be offended enough to lash out violently and they got what they wanted. Now they can go on about how they are martyrs in the war against Evil Muslims and that they were right all along.

[Occupied Deutschland]

This isn't related to Waco or Ruby Ridge (you should bone up on some history to appreciate the comparison made, apparently). Their continued irresponsible actions (by your logic) led directly to McVeigh's actions. They were responsible for the deaths. Had they stopped taxing people, McVeigh would've not attacked them.

This logic is fucking stupid.

The only thing stupid is how you're going on the Victim Blaming wagon, as if SIOA were traumatized by the shooting and gained no advantage or benefit from it whatsoever.

...Wait a minute, the shooters were the victims because SIOA said bad things about their religion?
...
I'm just going to assume that was a typo. Because otherwise I'm not even sure where to begin with that bullshit.

Oh, and McVeigh claimed Waco and Ruby Ridge was part of the reason he bombed the building. But hey, pointing out the obvious means you approve of what happened apparently.

Waco, Ruby Ridge, and the dude's rather rampant anti-government feelings yes.

Now, make the logical connection here to your supposed 'pointing out of the obvious'. WAS the federal governments actions at Waco and Ruby Ridge responsible for McVeigh's bombing? Was the IRSs continued existence and enforcement of law responsible?
Or is your logic fucking bonkers?
(hint: The latter is correct)

[Ethel mermania]

You have someone pretty much arguing it should be, and should be held complicit in the shooting.

Who is arguing that it should be illegal? The most that I'm seeing is people calling it distasteful, and holding Geller at least partially responsible due to what they're seeing as intentional provocation.

i would put that implication into Gauthier posts. If geller bears responsiblity, should she be charged?

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Not as razor edgy as equivocating a hate group with an agenda deliberately trolling for a response to innocent people minding their own business.

The fact you are applying the term "trolling" to real life scenarios shows how little you truly understand the situation. Who really cares if it hurts your feefees, welcome to free speech. You know what, Muslims have the right to say they dislike this art exhibition as much as the anti muslims have the right to display Muhammad doing stupid shit.

Not shoot it up.

It was real life trolling. Sorry, the word's been adapted now, and is in common use to describe situations in which a person or group intentionally does something that they know that another person will find offensive or hurtful in order to elicit a negative reaction.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Who is arguing that it should be illegal? The most that I'm seeing is people calling it distasteful, and holding Geller at least partially responsible due to what they're seeing as intentional provocation.

i would put that implication into Gauthier posts. If geller bears responsiblity, should she be charged?

Of course not. Moral responsibility is not always legal responsibility.

[The Ostrich Empire]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7TAAw3oQvg Video on the myth of "Islam extremists being a minority"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEir8ORIks0 Video revealing how Islam fits in Western Society.

No, making Muslims feel special by taking away peoples right to freedom of speech is not good. That's the beauty of freedom of speech, I have the rights to offend you, yet simultaneously you have the rights to not give a shit. And yeah, people performed hate speech, yet this goes under freedom of speech, you stupid worms. Plus I don't get how the fuck showing someone a drawing should give them the rights to shoot you dead.

[Occupied Deutschland]

The fact you are applying the term "trolling" to real life scenarios shows how little you truly understand the situation. Who really cares if it hurts your feefees, welcome to free speech. You know what, Muslims have the right to say they dislike this art exhibition as much as the anti muslims have the right to display Muhammad doing stupid shit.

Not shoot it up.

Because clearly the entire Muslim population of the town showed up at the convention center with guns blazing.

That...wasn't even suggested in anything he said. It was about the local Muslim population protesting the convention.

Although, by your logic, had local Muslims shown up to protest the event's subject matter and had a member of SIAO shoot them, it would've been the Muslims responsibility.

Because, y'know, they were trolling for a response like that.

[Ethel mermania]

i would put that implication into Gauthier posts. If geller bears responsiblity, should she be charged?

Of course not. Moral responsibility is not always legal responsibility.

The arguement I am seeing is that gellers contest was incitement. incitement is not considered free sheep and is illegal

[Salus Maior]

*sigh*.... Conservative Muslims need to learn that they can't get their way with violence. Cause this is getting freaking ridiculous.