Shooting at Muhammad cartoon conference in Dallas

[Gauthier]

It's the fault of the murderers, the fanatics.

Imagine this hypothetical.

This conference happens and the gunmen arrive. The gunmen start shooting at the conference, and in doing so hit a completely innocent and uninvolved member of the local community, who then dies.

Are you seriously going to contend that that bystander's death is solely the fault of the gunmen?

Incitement and harassment is protected speech. *nod nod* You're just exercising your rights if you drive someone to suicide or a rampage.

[Geilinor]

Imagine this hypothetical.

This conference happens and the gunmen arrive. The gunmen start shooting at the conference, and in doing so hit a completely innocent and uninvolved member of the local community, who then dies.

Are you seriously going to contend that that bystander's death is solely the fault of the gunmen?

Incitement and harassment is protected speech. *nod nod* You're just exercising your rights if you drive someone to suicide or a rampage.

If you're that easily driven to a rampage, you need mental care.

[Miletos]

Incitement and harassment is protected speech. *nod nod* You're just exercising your rights if you drive someone to suicide or a rampage.

If you're that easily driven to a rampage, you need mental care.

That is both true and completely failing to address the question.

[Geilinor]

If you're that easily driven to a rampage, you need mental care.

That is both true and completely failing to address the question.

Drawing cartoons has never been a crime and nor should it be. Murder is illegal and looked down upon in virtually every society,

[Gauthier]

Incitement and harassment is protected speech. *nod nod* You're just exercising your rights if you drive someone to suicide or a rampage.

If you're that easily driven to a rampage, you need mental care.

Oh that's riiiiiiight, this nation has the most comprehensive and progressive mental health care system in the world and nobody slips through the cracks Ever!

[Ethel mermania]

It's the fault of the murderers, the fanatics.

Imagine this hypothetical.

This conference happens and the gunmen arrive. The gunmen start shooting at the conference, and in doing so hit a completely innocent and uninvolved member of the local community, who then dies.

Are you seriously going to contend that that bystander's death is solely the fault of the gunmen?

And the folks who funded him, and trained him, absolutely yes.

[Gauthier]

Imagine this hypothetical.

This conference happens and the gunmen arrive. The gunmen start shooting at the conference, and in doing so hit a completely innocent and uninvolved member of the local community, who then dies.

Are you seriously going to contend that that bystander's death is solely the fault of the gunmen?

And the folks who funded him, and trained him, absolutely yes.

So long as you don't pull the trigger, you can provoke mass murder and not be held accountable. Good to know.

[Occupied Deutschland]

It's the fault of the murderers, the fanatics.

Imagine this hypothetical.

This conference happens and the gunmen arrive. The gunmen start shooting at the conference, and in doing so hit a completely innocent and uninvolved member of the local community, who then dies.

Are you seriously going to contend that that bystander's death is solely the fault of the gunmen?

...
That's literally the only correct contention that could be made.

Turns out, the people who decide to shoot and kill people are the ones responsible should people get shot or killed!
Pretty basic stuff, this.

[Geilinor]

If you're that easily driven to a rampage, you need mental care.

Oh that's riiiiiiight, this nation has the most comprehensive and progressive mental health care system in the world and nobody slips through the cracks Ever!

Then we should improve the mental health care system, not imprison people for cartoons.

[Ethel mermania]

And the folks who funded him, and trained him, absolutely yes.

So long as you don't pull the trigger, you can provoke mass murder and not be held accountable. Good to know.

Encouraging people to provoke mass murder is not what happened Here.

[Geilinor]

And the folks who funded him, and trained him, absolutely yes.

So long as you don't pull the trigger, you can provoke mass murder and not be held accountable. Good to know.

Then nobody in this world will be able to say anything ever again.

"You insulted me, so if I kill you, I don't get punished. You do."

[Gauthier]

Oh that's riiiiiiight, this nation has the most comprehensive and progressive mental health care system in the world and nobody slips through the cracks Ever!

Then we should improve the mental health care system, not imprison people for cartoons.

Oh and who said the people who drew the cartoon should be imprisoned?

I write: "Given the location of the contest and the nature of the hate group organizing it, don't act shocked if some fanatic latches onto the chum bait and starts a feeding frenzy."

You read: "ISLAM IS SACRED!! BAN EVERYTHING THAT MOCKS ISLAM!! THEY DESERVE TO DIE!!"

[Occupied Deutschland]

And the folks who funded him, and trained him, absolutely yes.

So long as you don't pull the trigger, you can provoke mass murder and not be held accountable. Good to know.

Oklahoma City Bombing? Not McVeigh's fault. The IRS was asking for it! Provoking all those right-wing extremists like McVeigh with their...taxation and such.

Aurora Theater Shooting? Not the man's fault. The Dark Knight provoked him into shooting all those folks in order to emulate the Joker.

Sandy Hook? Video games.

SO MANY PROVOCATIONS! Provocations everywhere!

[Yumyumsuppertime]

That is both true and completely failing to address the question.

Drawing cartoons has never been a crime and nor should it be. Murder is illegal and looked down upon in virtually every society,

Nobody is saying that drawing cartoons is illegal, or that murder isn't.

[Miletos]

Imagine this hypothetical.

This conference happens and the gunmen arrive. The gunmen start shooting at the conference, and in doing so hit a completely innocent and uninvolved member of the local community, who then dies.

Are you seriously going to contend that that bystander's death is solely the fault of the gunmen?

...
That's literally the only correct contention that could be made.

Turns out, the people who decide to shoot and kill people are the ones responsible should people get shot or killed!
Pretty basic stuff, this.

Remarkable.

So if you hold a conference, one of whose (obvious, let's be honest) aims is to provoke extremists into violence, and bystanders are killed as a result, you as the conference organiser bear no responsibility for the bystanders' deaths because you personally did not pull the trigger or throw the bomb that killed them (with the obvious caveat that the killers bear the vast majority of the responsibility for, well, killing).

How the fuck do you people manage to cope with such a warped, responsibility-free concept of the right to freedom of speech?

[Gauthier]

So long as you don't pull the trigger, you can provoke mass murder and not be held accountable. Good to know.

Then nobody in this world will be able to say anything ever again.

"You insulted me, so if I kill you, I don't get punished. You do."

Cute distortion there. Going by your logic, Louis Head (Michael Brown's stepfather) shouldn't have been arrested and charged with inciting a riot for screaming "BURN THIS BITCH DOWN".

[Benuty]

So if a bunch of fanatics itching for any pretense to be violent bites onto the red meat and someone innocent gets killed, Freedom From Responsibility right?

It's the fault of the murderers, the fanatics.

In fairness it isn't just Muhammad they don't want their followers to draw.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aniconism_in_Islam

It should be noted the Shiites are more liberal toward that considering the hadiths used as arguments for prohibition are from the Sunni branch of Islam.

It doesn't mean there weren't methods that technically moved around the order.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aniconism_ ... on_methods

[Gauthier]

...
That's literally the only correct contention that could be made.

Turns out, the people who decide to shoot and kill people are the ones responsible should people get shot or killed!
Pretty basic stuff, this.

Remarkable.

So if you hold a conference, one of whose (obvious, let's be honest) aims is to provoke extremists into violence, and bystanders are killed as a result, you as the conference organiser bear no responsibility for the bystanders' deaths because you personally did not pull the trigger or throw the bomb that killed them (with the obvious caveat that the killers bear the vast majority of the responsibility for, well, killing).

How the fuck do you people manage to cope with such a warped, responsibility-free concept of the right to freedom of speech?

Again, it's Spiderman saying "Uncle Ben can kiss my ass."

[Kiruri]

So long as you don't pull the trigger, you can provoke mass murder and not be held accountable. Good to know.

Encouraging people to provoke mass murder is not what happened Here.

I am utterly disgusted by that conference in Dallas but they do have a right to hate whichever group they so desire. Was the conference itself distasteful and hateful and quite frankly utterly pointless? Sure, but that's the attendees' and organizers' problem. People can get annoyed or offended or whatever, and that's okay. In a free society they (those offended) can counter their (conference attendees) reasoning with logical and centered arguments if they so wish. Sadly, there are always people that are too radicalized and just way far out there that can't handle that and go around shooting and looting and all those criminal offenses. Those are my two cents

[Gauthier]

So long as you don't pull the trigger, you can provoke mass murder and not be held accountable. Good to know.

Oklahoma City Bombing? Not McVeigh's fault. The IRS was asking for it! Provoking all those right-wing extremists like McVeigh with their...taxation and such.

Aurora Theater Shooting? Not the man's fault. The Dark Knight provoked him into shooting all those folks in order to emulate the Joker.

Sandy Hook? Video games.

SO MANY PROVOCATIONS! Provocations everywhere!

So why was Louis Head arrested and charged with inciting a riot for screaming "BURN THIS BITCH DOWN" again?

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Remarkable.

So if you hold a conference, one of whose (obvious, let's be honest) aims is to provoke extremists into violence, and bystanders are killed as a result, you as the conference organiser bear no responsibility for the bystanders' deaths because you personally did not pull the trigger or throw the bomb that killed them (with the obvious caveat that the killers bear the vast majority of the responsibility for, well, killing).

How the fuck do you people manage to cope with such a warped, responsibility-free concept of the right to freedom of speech?

Again, it's Spiderman saying "Uncle Ben can kiss my ass."

"With great power comes no fucks given".

[The German Democratic Reich]

Wrap your mind around this


The Westboro Baptist Church shoots up a gay parade because it is antagonizing their beliefs. Is it the gay's fault for insulting the belief of these bible thumpers? should gays be censored because they hurt the feelings of Christians?

[Ethel mermania]

Drawing cartoons has never been a crime and nor should it be. Murder is illegal and looked down upon in virtually every society,

Nobody is saying that drawing cartoons is illegal, or that murder isn't.

You have someone pretty much arguing it should be, and should be held complicit in the shooting.

[Gauthier]

Wrap your mind around this


The Westboro Baptist Church shoots up a gay parade because it is antagonizing their beliefs. Is it the gay's fault for insulting the belief of these bible thumpers? should gays be censored because they hurt the feelings of Christians?

Was the gay parade deliberately routed in front of the WBC with every participant making lewd gestures towards its members in order to rile them up?

So much disingenuous apologism.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Nobody is saying that drawing cartoons is illegal, or that murder isn't.

You have someone pretty much arguing it should be, and should be held complicit in the shooting.

Who is arguing that it should be illegal? The most that I'm seeing is people calling it distasteful, and holding Geller at least partially responsible due to what they're seeing as intentional provocation.