Shooting at Muhammad cartoon conference in Dallas

[Romalae]

Let me go out on a limb here and guess the names of the two attackers: Ahmed and Muhammad. Just a wild guess.

Should have gone for Elton.

Yeah, that one came out of left field. Damn it.

[Die Volkstaat]

If you start a conference on a subject bound to piss off over one billion people, don't be surprised some of them are going to react violently.

Especially ones that have a history of reacting violently to the slightest provocation. I'm not really surprised that it happened, but thank God only one person got hurt.

Overall, this could've been much worse.

And, to those who are saying "the cartoonists should've seen this coming", I say "how dare you?"

Seriously, that's no different than blaming rape victims for wearing "sexy" clothes, because "they should've known that some man would have urges and rape the woman."

[Deamonopolis]

The contest was textbook baiting though. Deliberately rub in a sensitive religious topic in hopes that easily offended radicals looking for an excuse to be violent take the bait, then when easily offended radicals act violently in response to the bait hold them up as gold standard examples of Muslims everywhere.

Baiting means one can expect a violent response? If that's the nature of the beast, then may I suggest a pre-emptive carpet bombing of the entire Middle East, since their violent reaction is ticking off my pre-emptive anti-violence violent response. If that's the logic, then earth would've been scorched ten times over and then some.

[Scomagia]

Especially ones that have a history of reacting violently to the slightest provocation. I'm not really surprised that it happened, but thank God only one person got hurt.

Overall, this could've been much worse.

And, to those who are saying "the cartoonists should've seen this coming", I say "how dare you?"

Seriously, that's no different than blaming rape victims for wearing "sexy" clothes, because "they should've known that some man would have urges and rape the woman."

Except that wearing sexy clothes has nothing to do with rape.

Being insulting tends to incite violence towards yourself. It was unjust violence but these cunts absolutely should have expected it.

[The Alexanderians]

Especially ones that have a history of reacting violently to the slightest provocation. I'm not really surprised that it happened, but thank God only one person got hurt.

Overall, this could've been much worse.

And, to those who are saying "the cartoonists should've seen this coming", I say "how dare you?"

Seriously, that's no different than blaming rape victims for wearing "sexy" clothes, because "they should've known that some man would have urges and rape the woman."

Those aren't comparable, purposely igniting tensions that they know extremists will react to is far different from blaming a rape victim.

[Skappola]

That's a bit of victim blaming, isn't it?

The contest was textbook baiting though. Deliberately rub in a sensitive religious topic in hopes that easily offended radicals looking for an excuse to be violent take the bait, then when easily offended radicals act violently in response to the bait hold them up as gold standard examples of Muslims everywhere.

Regardless, you can't blame them for doing this. They have every right to hold this conference, and to blame them for getting shotup is a textbook example of victim blaming.

[Die Volkstaat]

Overall, this could've been much worse.

And, to those who are saying "the cartoonists should've seen this coming", I say "how dare you?"

Seriously, that's no different than blaming rape victims for wearing "sexy" clothes, because "they should've known that some man would have urges and rape the woman."

Except that wearing sexy clothes has nothing to do with rape.

Being insulting tends to incite violence towards yourself. It was unjust violence but these cunts absolutely should have expected it.

That's my point. However, that doesn't stop fools from shouting "it's her fault she was raped, she wore potentially provocative clothing."

I see a similarity.

[Die Volkstaat]

Overall, this could've been much worse.

And, to those who are saying "the cartoonists should've seen this coming", I say "how dare you?"

Seriously, that's no different than blaming rape victims for wearing "sexy" clothes, because "they should've known that some man would have urges and rape the woman."

Those aren't comparable, purposely igniting tensions that they know extremists will react to is far different from blaming a rape victim.

It's sad though, isn't it? That otherwise innocent cartoonists and those against Islam can't express their opinions without the danger of being shot at.

[Scomagia]

Except that wearing sexy clothes has nothing to do with rape.

Being insulting tends to incite violence towards yourself. It was unjust violence but these cunts absolutely should have expected it.

That's my point. However, that doesn't stop fools from shouting "it's her fault she was raped, she wore potentially provocative clothing."

I see a similarity.

There is no similarity. Clothing has nothing to do with rape. Full stop. Being deliberately cunty has a known correlation with getting physically attacked.

[Skappola]

Overall, this could've been much worse.

And, to those who are saying "the cartoonists should've seen this coming", I say "how dare you?"

Seriously, that's no different than blaming rape victims for wearing "sexy" clothes, because "they should've known that some man would have urges and rape the woman."

Except that wearing sexy clothes has nothing to do with rape.

Being insulting tends to incite violence towards yourself. It was unjust violence but these cunts absolutely should have expected it.

That is a serious failure of our protection of freedom of speech if our Law & Order system can't protect those that speak their opinions, however vile. We can't just sit back and say that they should've expected it.

[Die Volkstaat]

That's my point. However, that doesn't stop fools from shouting "it's her fault she was raped, she wore potentially provocative clothing."

I see a similarity.

There is no similarity. Clothing has nothing to do with rape. Full stop. Being deliberately cunty has a known correlation with getting physically attacked.

You're missing my point. Of course clothing has nothing to do with rape. And, having a conference against Islam should have no correlation with getting physically attacked.

[Scomagia]

Except that wearing sexy clothes has nothing to do with rape.

Being insulting tends to incite violence towards yourself. It was unjust violence but these cunts absolutely should have expected it.

That is a serious failure of our protection of freedom of speech if our Law & Order system can't protect those that speak their opinions, however vile. We can't just sit back and say that they should've expected it.

How is our Justice system not protecting them, exactly? Did the government say that the people responsible for acts like these wouldn't be held legally accountable?

No? I didn't think so.

[Scomagia]

There is no similarity. Clothing has nothing to do with rape. Full stop. Being deliberately cunty has a known correlation with getting physically attacked.

You're missing my point. Of course clothing has nothing to do with rape. And, having a conference against Islam should have no correlation with getting physically attacked.

But it does because we live in reality. Act like a douche-bag and people might attack you. This is human behavior 101.

[Deamonopolis]

Regardless, you can't blame them for doing this. They have every right to hold this conference, and to blame them for getting shotup is a textbook example of victim blaming.

The reasoning behind the comparison it is entirely the same though. Not saying I agree with it...!

Women who wear sexy clothes are likely rape victims
Rapists are attracted by sexy clothing
Sexy clothes are the cause of rape

People who draw the prophet Muhammed are likely targets
Muslims will defend Muhammed against blasphemy
Cartoonists are at fault for inciting a defense against blasphemy

[Roma Byzantina]

1. I'd rather not allow this type of event happen considering it's tasteless and is meant just to antagonize others, but it falls under the US's incredibly broad (too broad) definition of freedom of speech so it must be allowed.
2. No
I think the best way to fight these events would be pro-muslim/anti-islamophobe cartoon conferences. Offend the islamophobes as much as possible and if they attack, FREE-SPEACH rights. Doing something is better than doing nothing, although a shooting is taking it too far.

[HMS Vanguard]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-32579396

Just breaking. Two suspects shot and killed, one officer injured, this is all I know so far.

As for discussion: do you think conferences like this should be allowed to proceed, does the possibility of violence change your view?

What a bizarre question, like asking an Auschwitz guide if she thinks it was a good idea to ever allow Jews to live in Germany, given what happened to them.

[Skappola]

That is a serious failure of our protection of freedom of speech if our Law & Order system can't protect those that speak their opinions, however vile. We can't just sit back and say that they should've expected it.

How is our Justice system not protecting them, exactly? Did the government say that the people responsible for acts like these wouldn't be held legally accountable?

No? I didn't think so.

If we're having shootings due to people expressing their opinions, then our law & order system has failed in protecting freedom of speech.

[HMS Vanguard]

Regardless, you can't blame them for doing this. They have every right to hold this conference, and to blame them for getting shotup is a textbook example of victim blaming.

The reasoning behind the comparison it is entirely the same though. Not saying I agree with it...!

Women who wear sexy clothes are likely rape victims
Rapists are attracted by sexy clothing
Sexy clothes are the cause of rape

People who draw the prophet Muhammed are likely targets
Muslims will defend Muhammed against blasphemy
Cartoonists are at fault for inciting a defense against blasphemy

These arguments aren't the same at all. The first makes a predictive claim: revealing clothes cause rape. The second makes a moral claim: cartoonists are to blame for muslims shooting them. One can argue that cartoonists who draw pictures of muhammed make themselves more likely to be shot by muslims without assigning fault to the cartoonists.

[Miletos]

How is our Justice system not protecting them, exactly? Did the government say that the people responsible for acts like these wouldn't be held legally accountable?

No? I didn't think so.

If we're having shootings due to people expressing their opinions, then our law & order system has failed in protecting freedom of speech.

It succeeded rather significantly, actually, insofar as the only dead people are the attackers.

It is not possible to prevent all lone-wolf terrorist attacks without resorting to authoritarian/totalitarian practices. This much should be obvious.

[Scomagia]

Regardless, you can't blame them for doing this. They have every right to hold this conference, and to blame them for getting shotup is a textbook example of victim blaming.

The reasoning behind the comparison it is entirely the same though. Not saying I agree with it...!

Women who wear sexy clothes are likely rape victims
Rapists are attracted by sexy clothing
Sexy clothes are the cause of rape

People who draw the prophet Muhammed are likely targets
Muslims will defend Muhammed against blasphemy
Cartoonists are at fault for inciting a defense against blasphemy

Your first syllogism is unsound since the premise is flawed. Rapists and sexy clothes have no known relation.

Your second syllogism is flawed from top to bottom.

[Scomagia]

How is our Justice system not protecting them, exactly? Did the government say that the people responsible for acts like these wouldn't be held legally accountable?

No? I didn't think so.

If we're having shootings due to people expressing their opinions, then our law & order system has failed in protecting freedom of speech.

How?

What do you want, the fucking Precrime Bureau?

These shootings don't reflect on our justice system at all. I know you think it helps you make your point but stop lying.

[The Alexanderians]

Those aren't comparable, purposely igniting tensions that they know extremists will react to is far different from blaming a rape victim.

It's sad though, isn't it? That otherwise innocent cartoonists and those against Islam can't express their opinions without the danger of being shot at.

No, these weren't just simple cartoonists. Look at the group involved they were hiding behind free speech in order to provoke a response so they could gain the moral high ground and point out "them evil mooslim are everywhere stepping on our freedoms"

[Imperium Sidhicum]

The contest was textbook baiting though. Deliberately rub in a sensitive religious topic in hopes that easily offended radicals looking for an excuse to be violent take the bait, then when easily offended radicals act violently in response to the bait hold them up as gold standard examples of Muslims everywhere.

Regardless, you can't blame them for doing this. They have every right to hold this conference, and to blame them for getting shotup is a textbook example of victim blaming.

That's kind of like kicking a hornets' nest and hoping not to get stung.

The organizers of that conference seem to forget that not everybody in the world shares their ideas of freedom of speech and how far it extends. They seem to believe they are entitled to insult whoever and whatever they like in impunity, while Muslims have a religious obligation to defend their faith against all affronts by fellow believers and non-believers alike.

Someone who knows this and chooses to start such a conference in a society inhabited by numerous Muslims nonetheless is just asking for trouble, so it's not unreasonable to blame his (willful) lack of foresight for what happened. It's pretty much the same as going out to the hood wearing a KKK robe and a sign saying "I hate niggers", and expect the denizens to just shrug it off.

[Scomagia]

Regardless, you can't blame them for doing this. They have every right to hold this conference, and to blame them for getting shotup is a textbook example of victim blaming.

That's kind of like kicking a hornets' nest and hoping not to get stung.

The organizers of that conference seem to forget that not everybody in the world shares their ideas of freedom of speech and how far it extends. They seem to believe they are entitled to insult whoever and whatever they like in impunity, while Muslims have a religious obligation to defend their faith against all affronts by fellow believers and non-believers alike.

Someone who knows this and chooses to start such a conference in a society inhabited by numerous Muslims nonetheless is just asking for trouble, so it's not unreasonable to blame his (willful) lack of foresight for what happened. It's pretty much the same as going out to the hood wearing a KKK robe and a sign saying "I hate niggers", and expect the denizens to just shrug it off.

As dirty as it makes me feel, I think you and I agree on something for once.

*shudders*

[HMS Vanguard]

Regardless, you can't blame them for doing this. They have every right to hold this conference, and to blame them for getting shotup is a textbook example of victim blaming.

That's kind of like kicking a hornets' nest and hoping not to get stung.

The organizers of that conference seem to forget that not everybody in the world shares their ideas of freedom of speech and how far it extends. They seem to believe they are entitled to insult whoever and whatever they like in impunity, while Muslims have a religious obligation to defend their faith against all affronts by fellow believers and non-believers alike.

Someone who knows this and chooses to start such a conference in a society inhabited by numerous Muslims nonetheless is just asking for trouble, so it's not unreasonable to blame his (willful) lack of foresight for what happened. It's pretty much the same as going out to the hood wearing a KKK robe and a sign saying "I hate niggers", and expect the denizens to just shrug it off.

It's more like the KKK saying that blacks should just learn their place and no one needs to get lynched.