Australia recalls Indonesian ambassador after execution

[Wisconsin9]

Indonesia should've extradited them so they go to court in Australia

Why should Indonesia's national sovereignty be infringed upon by having criminals accused of violating Indonesian law within Indonesia be tried outside of Indonesia?

Slavery used to be common, and bullshit like genocide and wars of conquest have been "the will of the people" in probably hundreds of countries going back to when countries first started to exist. That doesn't make it in any way right.

You're equating war crimes with a simple judicial proceeding. Indonesia did not fly to Australia, kidnap a couple Australians, and bring them back to their country to serve as unwilling unpaid labor. Nor did they execute them because of their race or for being from Australia. They were executed for violating the law of the land, as laid out by the elected legislature of Indonesia, voted into office by the Indonesian people. Acquiescing to the demands of the Australian government would mean that the Indonesian government was not properly representing their constituents and would have been a violation of their mandate. Bending the law simply because the criminals were foreigners would not only be unjust, but also submitting to international tyranny.

If the constituents demand this sort of extreme punishment for something that doesn't actually warrant it, then fuck the constituents. What you described isn't international tyranny, it's tyranny of the majority, and it's just as terrible as any other kind of tyranny.

[Atlanticatia]

Indonesia should've extradited them so they go to court in Australia

Why should Indonesia's national sovereignty be infringed upon by having criminals accused of violating Indonesian law within Indonesia be tried outside of Indonesia?

Their sovereignty is right to be challenged if they're putting low-level (Australian citizen) drug smugglers to death.

[Aethrys]

Why should Indonesia's national sovereignty be infringed upon by having criminals accused of violating Indonesian law within Indonesia be tried outside of Indonesia?



You're equating war crimes with a simple judicial proceeding. Indonesia did not fly to Australia, kidnap a couple Australians, and bring them back to their country to serve as unwilling unpaid labor. Nor did they execute them because of their race or for being from Australia. They were executed for violating the law of the land, as laid out by the elected legislature of Indonesia, voted into office by the Indonesian people. Acquiescing to the demands of the Australian government would mean that the Indonesian government was not properly representing their constituents and would have been a violation of their mandate. Bending the law simply because the criminals were foreigners would not only be unjust, but also submitting to international tyranny.

If the constituents demand this sort of extreme punishment for something that doesn't actually warrant it, then fuck the constituents. What you described isn't international tyranny, it's tyranny of the majority, and it's just as terrible as any other kind of tyranny.

Technically drug smugglers are a "minority" thankfully. Though I imagine you'd be hard pressed to find people calling for greater protections for those poor minority drug smugglers. Whether or not a sentence is warranted for a particular infraction is entirely subjective. Evidently Indonesia has decided that smuggling drugs into Indonesia deserves capital punishment, and that is all that matters in this situation. There is nothing tyrannical about a people making decisions about the laws that will govern their own land, and then abiding by them, provided such laws are not discriminatory in terms of things like race, sex, national origin, political views, etc. If anything it is surely the antithesis of tyranny.

[Wisconsin9]

If the constituents demand this sort of extreme punishment for something that doesn't actually warrant it, then fuck the constituents. What you described isn't international tyranny, it's tyranny of the majority, and it's just as terrible as any other kind of tyranny.

Technically drug smugglers are a "minority" thankfully. Though I imagine you'd be hard pressed to find people calling for greater protections for those poor minority drug smugglers. Whether or not a sentence is warranted for a particular infraction is entirely subjective. Evidently Indonesia has decided that smuggling drugs into Indonesia deserves capital punishment, and that is all that matters in this situation. There is nothing tyrannical about a people making decisions about the laws that will govern their own land, and then abiding by them, provided such laws are not discriminatory in terms of things like race, sex, national origin, political views, etc. If anything it is surely the antithesis of tyranny.

brb gonna go petition for littering to be made a capital offense

[Nickel Empire]

Indonesia did the right thing. You mess with their laws you suffer the punishment.

[Dooom35796821595]

If the constituents demand this sort of extreme punishment for something that doesn't actually warrant it, then fuck the constituents. What you described isn't international tyranny, it's tyranny of the majority, and it's just as terrible as any other kind of tyranny.

Technically drug smugglers are a "minority" thankfully. Though I imagine you'd be hard pressed to find people calling for greater protections for those poor minority drug smugglers. Whether or not a sentence is warranted for a particular infraction is entirely subjective. Evidently Indonesia has decided that smuggling drugs into Indonesia deserves capital punishment, and that is all that matters in this situation. There is nothing tyrannical about a people making decisions about the laws that will govern their own land, and then abiding by them, provided such laws are not discriminatory in terms of things like race, sex, national origin, political views, etc. If anything it is surely the antithesis of tyranny.

You seem to fail to grasp the concept of international diplomacy, core of it being compromise. There are other things Australia could do in retaliation like flag it as a no travel zone cutting off Australian tourists from their country. Besides Indonesian law allows the president to give leniency and stop them being executed for a low level crime.

[Ragutsa]

I still dont get it
When you go to a country you accept the laws of that country, If I go for example to Hungary and I consume Cannabis there(even if its aproved as medicinal in my country)Then im breaking the law and I go to jail and not the other way were I use my country laws and I dont go to jail.
Edit:Sorry for not putting '

[Wisconsin9]

I still dont get it
When you go to a country you accept the laws of that country, If I go for example to Hungary and I consume Cannabis there(even if its aproved as medicinal in my country)Then im breaking the law and I go to jail and not the other way were I use my country laws and I dont go to jail.

People get irrational about it when it's their people, even though they'd be following the same general principle.

[Aethrys]

Technically drug smugglers are a "minority" thankfully. Though I imagine you'd be hard pressed to find people calling for greater protections for those poor minority drug smugglers. Whether or not a sentence is warranted for a particular infraction is entirely subjective. Evidently Indonesia has decided that smuggling drugs into Indonesia deserves capital punishment, and that is all that matters in this situation. There is nothing tyrannical about a people making decisions about the laws that will govern their own land, and then abiding by them, provided such laws are not discriminatory in terms of things like race, sex, national origin, political views, etc. If anything it is surely the antithesis of tyranny.

brb gonna go petition for littering to be made a capital offense

If litter was such an issue where you live that you were able to convince enough people to sign it, then that would be perfectly justifiable. Likewise, Indonesians have decided that drug smuggling is a serious issue for them, and have decided how to go about it, as is their right.

Why should Indonesia's national sovereignty be infringed upon by having criminals accused of violating Indonesian law within Indonesia be tried outside of Indonesia?

Their sovereignty is right to be challenged if they're putting low-level (Australian citizen) drug smugglers to death.

What's the relevance of them being Australian citizens? Or the level of the drug smuggling operation they chose to engage in? Indonesian law makes no provisions based on amounts. Production, transit, import and possession of narcotics (Law No. 22/1997 on Narcotics) are all crimes for which the death penalty may be given under Indonesian law. The criminals decided to go ahead with it anyway and suffered the consequences, interestingly being captured due to the assistance of the Australian Federal Police providing timely information to Indonesian authorities. (The AFP soon after announced it would no longer cooperate with Indonesian authorities to combat crime)

[Wisconsin9]

brb gonna go petition for littering to be made a capital offense

If litter was such an issue where you live that you were able to convince enough people to sign it, then [executing people for littering] would be perfectly justifiable. Likewise, Indonesians have decided that drug smuggling is a serious issue for them, and have decided how to go about it, as is their right.

Yup, we're done here.

[Purpelia]

As far as I am concerned Australia did the right thing. The first and foremost duty of each nation and its government is to look after its own citizens. What these citizens did to foreigners is in that context of no consequence. If anything the right thing to do would have been to mount a military operation to bust them out.

[Reddogkeno101]

Yeah well it was going to happen, but the Indonesians dragged it out way too long. And when they transferred them from prison to the execution island, they had a show of force. Not to mention the AFP could have got them here. But you go there, you go by their laws. There was no need for such a diplomatic ruckus over something so irrelevant. However both sides are a fault here.

[Aethrys]

Technically drug smugglers are a "minority" thankfully. Though I imagine you'd be hard pressed to find people calling for greater protections for those poor minority drug smugglers. Whether or not a sentence is warranted for a particular infraction is entirely subjective. Evidently Indonesia has decided that smuggling drugs into Indonesia deserves capital punishment, and that is all that matters in this situation. There is nothing tyrannical about a people making decisions about the laws that will govern their own land, and then abiding by them, provided such laws are not discriminatory in terms of things like race, sex, national origin, political views, etc. If anything it is surely the antithesis of tyranny.

You seem to fail to grasp the concept of international diplomacy, core of it being compromise. There are other things Australia could do in retaliation like flag it as a no travel zone cutting off Australian tourists from their country. Besides Indonesian law allows the president to give leniency and stop them being executed for a low level crime.

You seem to believe that diplomatic pressure means Indonesia is obligated to comply. Evidently the Indonesian government considered the issue and decided that while they could be lenient for no better reason than a foreign government asked them to, they clearly came to the conclusion that the integrity of their justice system was more important than upsetting foreigners. While possibly not the best decision for Indonesian-Australian relations, it was the just thing to do. Australia does have the capability to bully Indonesia further over this issue, but it does not make such actions justifiable.

[Aethrys]

As far as I am concerned Australia did the right thing. The first and foremost duty of each nation and its government is to look after its own citizens. What these citizens did to foreigners is in that context of no consequence. If anything the right thing to do would have been to mount a military operation to bust them out.

So you believe that it would be fulfilling the Australian government's responsibility to their citizens by forcing a war upon the millions of Australian citizens who were not the few drug smugglers being executed?

[Purpelia]

So you believe that it would be fulfilling the Australian government's responsibility to their citizens by forcing a war upon the millions of Australian citizens who were not the few drug smugglers being executed?

No, but I do believe it would have been the morally right, even if incredibly stupid thing to do in this case. I also tend to believe, as you people should by now know that it is the duty of governments to rule based on what works and not what is right.

But ultimately I agree with what they did so far. And would go as far as putting economic pressure on them if possible as a form of vengeance (worked against Russia).

[Reddogkeno101]

As far as I am concerned Australia did the right thing. The first and foremost duty of each nation and its government is to look after its own citizens. What these citizens did to foreigners is in that context of no consequence. If anything the right thing to do would have been to mount a military operation to bust them out.

So you believe that it would be fulfilling the Australian government's responsibility to their citizens by forcing a war upon the millions of Australian citizens who were not the few drug smugglers being executed?

That is the media sensationalizing the executions.
Notice today's Courier Mail.
http://couriermail.newspaperdirect.com/ ... x?code=401

[Imperium Sidhicum]

Serves them dope-dealing scumbags right... You won't ever hear me express sympathy for drug peddlers being executed. In all likelihood, they knew very well what penalty awaited them if they were caught, yet chose to take their chances against the law anyway and failed, so they have only themselves to blame.

That said, I can understand Australia being displeased about the execution of it's nationals, even if the said nationals deserve the punishment. I figure this protest is not so much about saving the hides of some worthless drug dealers as it is to show that the government will not readily abandon it's citizens abroad to their fate - a populist move to increase the ratings, in other words.

[Roma Byzantina]

Were those people smuggling drugs? If yes, then they should have known the punishment and they brought themselves to it. You obey the law of the country you are in. If just looking at someone funny is illegal and punishable by death in the Republic of Derp then don't look at somebody funny, and it's pretty easy to not smuggle drugs into a nation.

[Costa Fierro]

Well, that's what you get for trying to smuggle drugs into a country with the death penalty. No tears will be shed for them. Also, Indonesia tried to have one of its citizens to be granted mercy in Saudi Arabia in order to prevent them from having their head lopped off.

[MERIZoC]

Well, that's what you get for trying to smuggle drugs into a country with the death penalty. No tears will be shed for them.

"Well, that's what you get for being gay in a country with the death penalty for it."

[Costa Fierro]

Well, that's what you get for trying to smuggle drugs into a country with the death penalty. No tears will be shed for them.

"Well, that's what you get for being gay in a country with the death penalty for it."

The difference being that those people didn't make the choice to be gay. The people who were executed in Indonesia made the choice to smuggle drugs.

If you're going to make an analogy, at least try to make one that's applicable.

[Aethrys]

"Well, that's what you get for being gay in a country with the death penalty for it."

The difference being that those people didn't make the choice to be gay. The people who were executed in Indonesia made the choice to smuggle drugs.

If you're going to make an analogy, at least try to make one that's applicable.

The prevalent opinion around here appears to be that drug smugglers are an oppressed minority deserving of special protections. This is one of those things about NSG that simply cannot be fabricated. Truth is stranger than fiction indeed.

[Sebastianbourg]

Why should we pity them if they willingly participated in an the drug trade in a country which is quite generous in handing out death sentences?

[The Aras Systems Commonwealth]

wait, firing squads are still a thing??
the fuck kind of place has firing squads as an execution method? even euthanasia is more civil than that.
Not to say execution in general is entirely unnecessary though, I do think it should be an option for only the absolutely heinous of crimes, like you'd have to really fuck up.

[Sebastianbourg]

wait, firing squads are still a thing?

Yes, even American states allow it.