Australia recalls Indonesian ambassador after execution

[The Republic of Pantalleria]

No, actually, that's not how extradition treaties work between friendly nations.

How friendly are Australia and Indonesia? I'm guessing, not very.

Not after this mess...
At-least not in the forseeable future.

[Sandhora]

executions because of drugs are a norm in southeast asia.. why the heck are westeners making such a big fuss over this... the law clearly says drug trafficking may result in death penalty.. stupid people... besides we're trying to protect our people from the harm of drugs.. our culture are different from you westeners... we dont want our children to become like you people from the west, disgusting.. we have our culture to protect..

[Donut section]

Public executions because of drugs are a norm in asia.. why the heck are westeners making such a big fuss over this... the law clearly says drug trafficking may result in death penalty.. stupid people... besides we're trying to protect our people from the harm of drugs.. our culture are different from you westeners... we dont want our children to become like you people from the west, disgusting.. we have our culture to protect..

Killing people is wrong. Nothing can change this.

Your culture is wrong.

[Cyllea]

Public executions because of drugs are a norm in asia.. why the heck are westeners making such a big fuss over this... the law clearly says drug trafficking may result in death penalty.. stupid people... besides we're trying to protect our people from the harm of drugs.. our culture are different from you westeners... we dont want our children to become like you people from the west, disgusting.. we have our culture to protect..

Killing people is wrong. Nothing can change this.

Your culture is wrong.

Better dead than sitting in prison wasting resources of the nation. And before you go "omg but appeals", appeals shouldn't be as abused as they are now. You get sentenced to death, you're executed shortly thereafter. No stalling for years at a time and wasting millions of dollars.

[Vasileus]

Killing people is wrong. Nothing can change this.

Your culture is wrong.

Better dead than sitting in prison wasting resources of the nation. And before you go "omg but appeals", appeals shouldn't be as abused as they are now. You get sentenced to death, you're executed shortly thereafter. No stalling for years at a time and wasting millions of dollars.

What about the innocent wrongly convicted. fuck em, eh?

[Cyllea]

Better dead than sitting in prison wasting resources of the nation. And before you go "omg but appeals", appeals shouldn't be as abused as they are now. You get sentenced to death, you're executed shortly thereafter. No stalling for years at a time and wasting millions of dollars.

What about the innocent wrongly convicted. fuck em, eh?

Or you could not put words in my mouth. Death penalty should only be used in cases of undeniable and clear evidence.

[Donut section]

What about the innocent wrongly convicted. fuck em, eh?

Or you could not put words in my mouth. Death penalty should only be used in cases of undeniable and clear evidence.

No never.

The only possible time is the international courts with representatives of the entire planet present with the charges being crimes against humanity.

[Vasileus]

What about the innocent wrongly convicted. fuck em, eh?

Or you could not put words in my mouth. Death penalty should only be used in cases of undeniable and clear evidence.

I'm merely showing you the consequences of your own words. What about biased juries? What about underzelous defenders? What about thousands of other things that could result in a conviction? But clearly, you don't care enough about that to factor it into a decision

[Sandhora]

Public executions because of drugs are a norm in asia.. why the heck are westeners making such a big fuss over this... the law clearly says drug trafficking may result in death penalty.. stupid people... besides we're trying to protect our people from the harm of drugs.. our culture are different from you westeners... we dont want our children to become like you people from the west, disgusting.. we have our culture to protect..

Killing people is wrong. Nothing can change this.

Your culture is wrong.

we're not killing people... we are executing them because they commited a crime, a serious crime... the governments of indonesia, malaysia and singapore has enacted this law to prevent and scare away people from bringing drugs into their countries but if failed for some reason

[Vasileus]

Killing people is wrong. Nothing can change this.

Your culture is wrong.

we're not killing people... we are executing them because they commited a crime, a serious crime... the governments of indonesia, malaysia and singapore has enacted this law to prevent and scare away people from bringing drugs into their countries but if failed for some reason

Yet time and time again there's been evidence that it's facilitated by SEAan Army members, high ranking Politicians, and the Elite. Where are their executions?

[Donut section]

Killing people is wrong. Nothing can change this.

Your culture is wrong.

we're not killing people... we are executing them because they commited a crime, a serious crime... the governments of indonesia, malaysia and singapore has enacted this law to prevent and scare away people from bringing drugs into their countries but if failed for some reason

Executing = killing

Only the international court should have the right and only in the most extreme cases.

Your diversion doesn't work. It's known that it won't work. All you're doing is giving criminals an excuse to murder to get away with lower crimes.

[AiliailiA]

Killing people is wrong. Nothing can change this.

Your culture is wrong.

we're not killing people... we are executing them because they commited a crime, a serious crime... the governments of indonesia, malaysia and singapore has enacted this law to prevent and scare away people from bringing drugs into their countries but if failed for some reason

These guys were trying to smuggle drugs OUT of your country. To Australia.

[Novorobo]

What do people here make of the idea of boycotting Indonesia? I figure it seems about as good a way to put the pressure on as any.

[Cyllea]

Or you could not put words in my mouth. Death penalty should only be used in cases of undeniable and clear evidence.

I'm merely showing you the consequences of your own words. What about biased juries? What about underzelous defenders? What about thousands of other things that could result in a conviction? But clearly, you don't care enough about that to factor it into a decision

>implying i dont believe in a complete overhaul of the judicial system

[Sverszmark]

Killing people is wrong. Nothing can change this.

Your culture is wrong.

we're not killing people... we are executing them because they commited a crime, a serious crime... the governments of indonesia, malaysia and singapore has enacted this law to prevent and scare away people from bringing drugs into their countries but if failed for some reason

It failed because capital punishment never really succeeds in deterring crime in any significant way. Nobody who commits a crime plans on getting caught, after all.

[Cyllea]

we're not killing people... we are executing them because they commited a crime, a serious crime... the governments of indonesia, malaysia and singapore has enacted this law to prevent and scare away people from bringing drugs into their countries but if failed for some reason

It failed because capital punishment never really succeeds in deterring crime in any significant way. Nobody who commits a crime plans on getting caught, after all.

I disagree. I'd much rather get convicted of murder in Norway than the USA.

[Cyllea]

Or you could not put words in my mouth. Death penalty should only be used in cases of undeniable and clear evidence.

No never.

The only possible time is the international courts with representatives of the entire planet present with the charges being crimes against humanity.

National Sovereignty m8.

[Donut section]

What do people here make of the idea of boycotting Indonesia? I figure it seems about as good a way to put the pressure on as any.

I suggested it earlier, it was ignored.

But I like the idea.

[Keyboard Warriors]

Invasion is a bit strong, let's at least fuck with their economy and send their social order down the drain. Maybe that will inspire their population to revolt and we might get a decent Indonesian government for a change. At the very least, one not so determined to murder Australians.

Indonesian logic:
Shoot 5 Australian journalists reporting a genocide; get a medal.
Help to blow up a nightclub and kill 202 people, 88 Australians; get five years in prison
Smuggle some druuuuuuuugs; shot to death.
Murder some Australian tourist; lolwut we don't know who did that

We need them for our economy as well. We import to them, they rarely export to us.

That's true, but I can't imagine Indonesia will want to stop eating beef any time soon.

[Elke and Elba]

Killing people is wrong. Nothing can change this.

Your culture is wrong.

we're not killing people... we are executing them because they commited a crime, a serious crime... the governments of indonesia, malaysia and singapore has enacted this law to prevent and scare away people from bringing drugs into their countries but if failed for some reason

As a fellow Singaporean I'm finding it quite perturbing that people of other cultures can put down us for our laws. They are there for a reason, and they are supported quite largely by the populace. Call us conservative, but I think there are many people who should be called this for practicing even more conservative behaviour rather than us.

I'm quite pleased with the Indonesian government's treatment of the incident - especially with the execution of the Bali Nine to send a strong message; which Abbott didn't help when he was trying to save them BUT acted haughty (which the Indonesian government will never back down if he does so). I'm a bit worried about the execution of the Brazilian and also that of the pending case of Mary Jane Veloso. They don't seemed to have deserved it.

[Sandhora]

Executing = killing

Only the international court should have the right and only in the most extreme cases.

Your diversion doesn't work. It's known that it won't work. All you're doing is giving criminals an excuse to murder to get away with lower crimes.

People get executed because of drugs year and oh when asian people gets executed because of drugs in these countries.. no news no nothing... but when westerners get executed... the whole world gets in an uproar and condemns such a barbaric act... explain this

[Novorobo]

I'm merely showing you the consequences of your own words. What about biased juries? What about underzelous defenders? What about thousands of other things that could result in a conviction? But clearly, you don't care enough about that to factor it into a decision

>implying i dont believe in a complete overhaul of the judicial system

1. By your own standards of reasoning, we need to refrain from using the death penalty until it is overhauled.

2. Even then, the fact that our current system has been known to get it wrong goes to show that what people often think is "undeniable and clear evidence" just isn't. There is no system that can realistically hope to avoid that reality altogether.

Not to say there isn't a tradeoff; if it's execution for murder, you're risking killing innocents for the possibility that it may save innocent lives through deterrence, though that would at the very least depends on the execution. But execution for anything short than murder is insanity.

[AiliailiA]

What do people here make of the idea of boycotting Indonesia? I figure it seems about as good a way to put the pressure on as any.

There isn't much Indonesia sells to Australia. The only way to boycott is to stop taking holidays there.

[Claanyad]

This is, was, and always will be an interesting case. When a government is executing your nationals abroad for trumped-up charges, like disturbing the peace, or doing something that they simply could not have done, it is easy to condemn the offending government and shake your heads at them; "Oh, that <insert country here>... Always causing trouble."

But in this case, it is a case of Australian nationals who have been convicted, and probably are associated heavily with, drug crimes.

It's an interesting debate - one country wanting to charge its own criminals vs. another country wanting to deliver its own punishment. I'm not sure if Indonesia would be happy with Australia refusing to release Indonesian criminals, nor would any country. But when you consider that the Bali Nine were ruining the lives of Indonesians, it makes for an interesting ethical pickle.

However, the fate of this Filipina woman is another case which I had not heard of. That shows a possible double standard on the part of Indonesia - that the Australian government would have been lobbying for years to get the criminals absolved of their death sentence, and yet the Philippine government somehow successfully does it for the time being. Nothing bad intended towards the Philippines, just curious.

In my opinion, Australia is right in recalling its ambassador. What has been done is an affront to the Australian government - I am sure that they would have suffered from penalties under their own government rather than having to be executed by a foreign one. Indonesia and Australia have had a rocky relationship - this may just be another middle finger at Australia.

[Sverszmark]

It failed because capital punishment never really succeeds in deterring crime in any significant way. Nobody who commits a crime plans on getting caught, after all.

I disagree. I'd much rather get convicted of murder in Norway than the USA.

Surely anybody would. But if you're committing murder you're probably not planning on getting caught or thinking about the consequences, and probably don't have the luxury of taking a flight to Norway to find your victim (especially considering most murderers kill people they know, not counting serial killers).