Australia recalls Indonesian ambassador after execution

[Lyrian Oligarchic Royal Empire]

Too little too late. Abbot only offered a half-hearted attempt to get them to stop the executions—there should have been way more pressure from the international community.

The United States of Executionville telling a government to not execute people for drug related offenses?

Yeah. That's likely.

[Calimera II]

Too little too late. Abbot only offered a half-hearted attempt to get them to stop the executions—there should have been way more pressure from the international community.

As I wrote before: ''The Dutch King, Prime Minister, Ambassador and Minister of Foreign Affairs (and also some representatives of the EU) tried to prevent a dutch guy from being executed in Indonesia, it didn't work.''


So honestly, I don't think more pressure from the international community will work.

[Atlanticatia]

13 people have already been executed in the USA this year too, so is the US also a barbaric hellhole? - Abbot should follow through and recall the US ambassador as well

I completely disagree with the death penalty in the US, too, and think it leaves the country in the wrong century..

And here's a chart of executions around the world.

The US executed more people than Indonesia in 2012, and trust me, I'm not making exceptions.
(I think the particular significance of this issue, though, is that it was for low-scale drug smuggling.)

[Donut section]

The worst part of this is our own federal police informed Indonesia about these men, instead of arresting them here.

So not only should we remove our ambassador.
We should also arrest the Australian federal police members for manslaughter.

I also believe expelling any Indonesians who live here and setting an embargo up would send a clear enough message.

[Cabana]

13 people have already been executed in the USA this year too, so is the US also a barbaric hellhole? - Abbot should follow through and recall the US ambassador as well

I completely disagree with the death penalty in the US, too, and think it leaves the country in the wrong century..

And here's a chart of executions around the world.

The US executed more people than Indonesia in 2012, and trust me, I'm not making exceptions.
(I think the particular significance of this issue, though, is that it was for low-scale drug smuggling.)

And it was foreign nationals too.

[MERIZoC]

Too little too late. Abbot only offered a half-hearted attempt to get them to stop the executions—there should have been way more pressure from the international community.

As I wrote before: ''The Dutch King, Prime Minister, Ambassador and Minister of Foreign Affairs (and also some representatives of the EU) tried to prevent a dutch guy from being executed in Indonesia, it didn't work.''


So honestly, I don't think more pressure from the international community will work.

Perhaps. But Abbott basically gave Indonesia no more than a "you owe us". Trying would hurt nobody.

[Pope Joan]

Oz couldn't do much else, but really now. Stop dealing drugs and you'll be safe.

[MERIZoC]

Oz couldn't do much else, but really now. Stop dealing drugs and you'll be safe.

How overly simplistic.

[Lyrian Oligarchic Royal Empire]

Oz couldn't do much else, but really now. Stop dealing drugs and you'll be safe.

How overly simplistic.

Well, you know that Fillipina maid who was framed is actually the kingpin behind all of this.

The fact that she was almost executed, and had a stay ONLY SO SHE CAN TESTIFY is incidental.

[The Nuclear Fist]

Welcome to South East Asia

Singapore and Malaysia isn't that bad. At least, they're not primitive.

Singapore canes people. That seems pretty fucking primitive.

[Novorobo]

13 people have already been executed in the USA this year too, so is the US also a barbaric hellhole? - Abbot should follow through and recall the US ambassador as well

Seriously? You're comparing executions over murder to executions over drug smuggling? Come on, at least in the US the punishment fits the crime.

[Dooom35796821595]

13 people have already been executed in the USA this year too, so is the US also a barbaric hellhole? - Abbot should follow through and recall the US ambassador as well

Seriously? You're comparing executions over murder to executions over drug smuggling? Come on, at least in the US the punishment fits the crime.

Execution for any crime is pointless and barbaric, it just serves as a twisted form of vengeance.

Although on the above point, were any Australians executed? As that would give cause for diplomatic issues between the two nations.

[Cabana]

Seriously? You're comparing executions over murder to executions over drug smuggling? Come on, at least in the US the punishment fits the crime.

Execution for any crime is pointless and barbaric, it just serves as a twisted form of vengeance.

Although on the above point, were any Australians executed? As that would give cause for diplomatic issues between the two nations.

Two of them were

[Dooom35796821595]

Execution for any crime is pointless and barbaric, it just serves as a twisted form of vengeance.

Although on the above point, were any Australians executed? As that would give cause for diplomatic issues between the two nations.

Two of them were

I meant in America, I left out the previous post

13 people have already been executed in the USA this year too, so is the US also a barbaric hellhole? - Abbot should follow through and recall the US ambassador as well

I completely disagree with the death penalty in the US, too, and think it leaves the country in the wrong century..

And here's a chart of executions around the world.

The US executed more people than Indonesia in 2012, and trust me, I'm not making exceptions.
(I think the particular significance of this issue, though, is that it was for low-scale drug smuggling.)

[Cyrisnia]

Once again, NationStates becomes real life.

But yeah, this is a barbaric act. C'mon, I get that its illegal, and it should be, but execution?

[Novorobo]

Execution for any crime is pointless and barbaric, it just serves as a twisted form of vengeance.

Not necessarily, it's plausible that in some cases it may serve as a form of deterrence as well.

At the very least, there's room for distinction in terms of what one was executed for.

[Dooom35796821595]

Execution for any crime is pointless and barbaric, it just serves as a twisted form of vengeance.

Not necessarily, it's plausible that in some cases it may serve as a form of deterrence as well.

At the very least, there's room for distinction in terms of what one was executed for.

There is no evidence that the death penalty acts as a deterrent. Besides, it lowers the state to the level of criminality.

In countries with serious drug problems smuggling may cause deaths and be considered as bad, if not worse then homicide.

[Aethrys]

Australia has a right to recall their ambassador, though they are using rather poor justification. A crime was committed in Indonesia and the criminals received appropriate punishment under Indonesian law. If you don't like the punishment for a particular crime, either don't commit it or avoid the country all together. It's quite simple.

Letting these thugs walk simply because they were foreigners would have been a travesty of justice. Indonesia was absolutely correct in this situation.

[Wisconsin9]

Australia has a right to recall their ambassador, though they are using rather poor justification. A crime was committed in Indonesia and the criminals received appropriate punishment under Indonesian law. If you don't like the punishment for a particular crime, either don't commit it or avoid the country all together. It's quite simple.

Letting these thugs walk simply because they were foreigners would have been a travesty of justice. Indonesia was absolutely correct in this situation.

Except for the bit where they're executing drug smugglers. It's kinda fucked up.

[Aethrys]

Australia has a right to recall their ambassador, though they are using rather poor justification. A crime was committed in Indonesia and the criminals received appropriate punishment under Indonesian law. If you don't like the punishment for a particular crime, either don't commit it or avoid the country all together. It's quite simple.

Letting these thugs walk simply because they were foreigners would have been a travesty of justice. Indonesia was absolutely correct in this situation.

Except for the bit where they're executing drug smugglers. It's kinda fucked up.

Not particularly. It's my understanding that this is not an uncommon sentence for the crime, so they weren't being treated unfairly. I would hope they knew when they decided to smuggle heroin for financial gain they ran the risk of being executed. If they assumed that the Australian government would be able to step in and intervene in the Indonesian justice system due to Australia's misguided policies, that is a most unfortunate attitude to have held. Thankfully Indonesia held firm and justice was served under the law of the land. Which means the will of the Indonesian people was carried out within their borders.

[Cabana]

Indonesia should've extradited them so they go to court in Australia

[Wisconsin9]

Except for the bit where they're executing drug smugglers. It's kinda fucked up.

Not particularly. It's my understanding that this is not an uncommon sentence for the crime, so they weren't being treated unfairly. I would hope they knew when they decided to smuggle heroin for financial gain they ran the risk of being executed. If they assumed that the Australian government would be able to step in and intervene in the Indonesian justice system due to Australia's misguided policies, that is a most unfortunate attitude to have held. Thankfully Indonesia held firm and justice was served under the law of the land. Which means the will of the Indonesian people was carried out within their borders.

Slavery used to be common, and bullshit like genocide and wars of conquest have been "the will of the people" in probably hundreds of countries going back to when countries first started to exist. That doesn't make it in any way right.

[Imperial New Vegas]

Honestly, war's on drugs don't ever go well.

[MERIZoC]

Australia has a right to recall their ambassador, though they are using rather poor justification. A crime was committed in Indonesia and the criminals received appropriate punishment under Indonesian law. If you don't like the punishment for a particular crime, either don't commit it or avoid the country all together. It's quite simple.

Letting these thugs walk simply because they were foreigners would have been a travesty of justice. Indonesia was absolutely correct in this situation.

Don't cut yourself.

[Aethrys]

Indonesia should've extradited them so they go to court in Australia

Why should Indonesia's national sovereignty be infringed upon by having criminals accused of violating Indonesian law within Indonesia be tried outside of Indonesia?

Not particularly. It's my understanding that this is not an uncommon sentence for the crime, so they weren't being treated unfairly. I would hope they knew when they decided to smuggle heroin for financial gain they ran the risk of being executed. If they assumed that the Australian government would be able to step in and intervene in the Indonesian justice system due to Australia's misguided policies, that is a most unfortunate attitude to have held. Thankfully Indonesia held firm and justice was served under the law of the land. Which means the will of the Indonesian people was carried out within their borders.

Slavery used to be common, and bullshit like genocide and wars of conquest have been "the will of the people" in probably hundreds of countries going back to when countries first started to exist. That doesn't make it in any way right.

You're equating war crimes with a simple judicial proceeding. Indonesia did not fly to Australia, kidnap a couple Australians, and bring them back to their country to serve as unwilling unpaid labor. Nor did they execute them because of their race or for being from Australia. They were executed for violating the law of the land, as laid out by the elected legislature of Indonesia, voted into office by the Indonesian people. Acquiescing to the demands of the Australian government would mean that the Indonesian government was not properly representing their constituents and would have been a violation of their mandate. Bending the law simply because the criminals were foreigners would not only be unjust, but also submitting to international tyranny.