NationStates

Kenzinia wrote:

Arumdaum wrote:Would Prabowo Subianto have been any better?

Err... idk...

How come you're into Indonesian politics? *Countryball language*

indonesia seems alright

Arumdaum wrote:

Kenzinia wrote:Err... idk...

How come you're into Indonesian politics? *Countryball language*

indonesia seems alright

I salute you sir.

Their own decision, though i can't feel sorry for those executed one bit. They know they law over there so its they knew the risk they took, i'm glad they are treated like every other person and have been executed.

Dain II Ironfoot wrote:Their own decision, though i can't feel sorry for those executed one bit. They know they law over there so its they knew the risk they took, i'm glad they are treated like every other person and have been executed.

Like the Indonesian guy they spared?

Napkiraly wrote:

Dain II Ironfoot wrote:Their own decision, though i can't feel sorry for those executed one bit. They know they law over there so its they knew the risk they took, i'm glad they are treated like every other person and have been executed.

Like the Indonesian guy they spared?

I'm sure there's a reason for that, they aren't sparing each and every indonesian guy if that's what you believe.

Hate to be frank about this but dead is dead. Like it or not, Indonesia has a right to enforce it's own laws within it's sovereign borders. Australia's recalling of her ambassador won't bring the smugglers back and frankly, just comes across as being overtly petulant and pointless.

The Greater Aryan Race wrote:Hate to be frank about this but dead is dead. Like it or not, Indonesia has a right to enforce it's own laws within it's sovereign borders. Australia's recalling of her ambassador won't bring the smugglers back and frankly, just comes across as being overtly petulant and pointless.

Indeed. Sanctions should have been made much earlier.

To all those up in arms about the execution,
I am an Australian Nationalist, yet even I believe that Indonesia was well within their rights to do this. It is common knowledge in Australia that drug charges are punished by death in Indonesia. The Indonesian government has already given into Australian demands on several occasions to release those accused of drug charges, this time they decided to stop listening. The Australian government should not be wasting time and money to bail out idiot criminals who commit capital offences in foreign nations. Despite the fact that I don't really like Indonesia, I respect their right to execute those who commit crimes in their nation. If an Australian went to the United States and got themselves executed, no-one would care, we wouldn't be hearing about it, we wouldn't be recalling ambassadors. Anyone stupid enough to go to Indonesia and have anything to do with drugs, is clearly an idiot that deserves to be killed.

From an Avid, yet Rational, Nationalist.

Apparently the Brazilian guy killed was a bipolar paranoid sczhiophrenic who didn't know he was going to be killed until he was being led to the range.

Winpheala wrote:

The Greater Aryan Race wrote:Hate to be frank about this but dead is dead. Like it or not, Indonesia has a right to enforce it's own laws within it's sovereign borders. Australia's recalling of her ambassador won't bring the smugglers back and frankly, just comes across as being overtly petulant and pointless.

Indeed. Sanctions should have been made much earlier.

I respectfully disagree, Australia has no right to impose sanctions simply because "wahhh they shot our citizens wahhhh!!111!"

The Greater Aryan Race wrote:

Winpheala wrote:Indeed. Sanctions should have been made much earlier.

I respectfully disagree, Australia has no right to impose sanctions simply because "wahhh they shot our citizens wahhhh!!111!"

Agreed, we'd to the same to them if we had the death penalty. If you don't want to deal with the punishment, don't do the crime.

The Greater Aryan Race wrote:

Winpheala wrote:Indeed. Sanctions should have been made much earlier.

I respectfully disagree, Australia has no right to impose sanctions simply because "wahhh they shot our citizens wahhhh!!111!"

They have every right. It's their trade, and their citizens, after all.

Roderia wrote:

The Greater Aryan Race wrote:I respectfully disagree, Australia has no right to impose sanctions simply because "wahhh they shot our citizens wahhhh!!111!"

Agreed, we'd to the same to them if we had the death penalty. If you don't want to deal with the punishment, don't do the crime.

But we don't.

Dain II Ironfoot wrote:Their own decision, though i can't feel sorry for those executed one bit. They know they law over there so its they knew the risk they took, i'm glad they are treated like every other person and have been executed.

Roderia wrote:To all those up in arms about the execution,
I am an Australian Nationalist, yet even I believe that Indonesia was well within their rights to do this. It is common knowledge in Australia that drug charges are punished by death in Indonesia. The Indonesian government has already given into Australian demands on several occasions to release those accused of drug charges, this time they decided to stop listening. The Australian government should not be wasting time and money to bail out idiot criminals who commit capital offences in foreign nations. Despite the fact that I don't really like Indonesia, I respect their right to execute those who commit crimes in their nation. If an Australian went to the United States and got themselves executed, no-one would care, we wouldn't be hearing about it, we wouldn't be recalling ambassadors. Anyone stupid enough to go to Indonesia and have anything to do with drugs, is clearly an idiot that deserves to be killed.

From an Avid, yet Rational, Nationalist.

Roderia wrote:

The Greater Aryan Race wrote:I respectfully disagree, Australia has no right to impose sanctions simply because "wahhh they shot our citizens wahhhh!!111!"

Agreed, we'd to the same to them if we had the death penalty. If you don't want to deal with the punishment, don't do the crime.

Winpheala wrote:They have every right. It's their trade, and their citizens, after all.

No they don't. Ever heard of this thing called the right to sovereignty? Indonesia is entitled to that too you know.

The Greater Aryan Race wrote:

Winpheala wrote:They have every right. It's their trade, and their citizens, after all.

No they don't. Ever heard of this thing called the right to sovereignty? Indonesia is entitled to that too you know.

How does Australia recalling their ambassador affect Indonesia's right to sovereignty?

The Greater Aryan Race wrote:

Winpheala wrote:They have every right. It's their trade, and their citizens, after all.

No they don't. Ever heard of this thing called the right to sovereignty? Indonesia is entitled to that too you know.

I'm not sure how placing sanctions affects sovereignty. My point was, as Australian citizens, the government should have done more before they were killed. E.g. Instead of tipping off Indonesian authorities, they could have arrested them when they got back to Australia.

New Genoa wrote:

The Greater Aryan Race wrote:No they don't. Ever heard of this thing called the right to sovereignty? Indonesia is entitled to that too you know.

How does Australia recalling their ambassador affect Indonesia's right to sovereignty?

I'm referring to Winpheala's desire to have Australia slap sanctions on Indonesia rather than simply recalling her ambassador.

The Greater Aryan Race wrote:

New Genoa wrote:How does Australia recalling their ambassador affect Indonesia's right to sovereignty?

I'm referring to Winpheala's desire to have Australia slap sanctions on Indonesia rather than simply recalling her ambassador.

See previous post.

Winpheala wrote:

The Greater Aryan Race wrote:No they don't. Ever heard of this thing called the right to sovereignty? Indonesia is entitled to that too you know.

I'm not sure how placing sanctions affects sovereignty.

Because by placing sanctions Australia would basically be saying "We don't like some of your laws and who cares if you're an independent state with your own jurisdictional rights, we're just gonna wreck your economy because you upset us.". And that effectively means Indonesia cannot implement and enforce her laws without fear of interference from certain neighboring countries.

Winpheala wrote:My point was, as Australian citizens, the government should have done more before they were killed. E.g. Instead of tipping off Indonesian authorities, they could have arrested them when they got back to Australia.

Err why shouldn't the AFP have tipped off the Indonesian authorities? What if the Bali 9 weren't smuggling drugs out of Indonesia but instead peddling them back there?

The Greater Aryan Race wrote:

Winpheala wrote:I'm not sure how placing sanctions affects sovereignty.

Because by placing sanctions Australia would basically be saying "We don't like some of your laws and who cares if you're an independent state with your own jurisdictional rights, we're just gonna wreck your economy because you upset us.". And that effectively means Indonesia cannot implement and enforce her laws without fear of interference from certain neighboring countries.

Winpheala wrote:My point was, as Australian citizens, the government should have done more before they were killed. E.g. Instead of tipping off Indonesian authorities, they could have arrested them when they got back to Australia.

Err why shouldn't the AFP have tipped off the Indonesian authorities? What if the Bali 9 weren't smuggling drugs out of Indonesia but instead peddling them back there?

Nope. Still not counted as a violation of sovereignty. It's not interference if you depend on one's help and they later choose to not help you.

A country has a duty to protect it's citizens- by tipping them off, they were essentially them to death. I'm not going to get into the whole drugs and death penalty argument here.

Winpheala wrote:

The Greater Aryan Race wrote:No they don't. Ever heard of this thing called the right to sovereignty? Indonesia is entitled to that too you know.

...My point was, as Australian citizens, the government should have done more before they were killed. E.g. Instead of tipping off Indonesian authorities, they could have arrested them when they got back to Australia.

That would be intentionally deceptive, withholding information of a crime taking place in their nation? That is what you want? Well maybe if a mass murderer comes from Indonesia over here, then the Indonesian Authorities may choose not to tip off the Australian Authorities. In addition, The Australian Government has no responsibility to Australian citizens in Indonesia, you know why? BECAUSE THEY ARE OUTSIDE OF AUSTRALIA!

Roderia wrote:

Winpheala wrote:...My point was, as Australian citizens, the government should have done more before they were killed. E.g. Instead of tipping off Indonesian authorities, they could have arrested them when they got back to Australia.

That would be intentionally deceptive, withholding information of a crime taking place in their nation? That is what you want? Well maybe if a mass murderer comes from Indonesia over here, then the Indonesian Authorities may choose not to tip off the Australian Authorities. In addition, The Australian Government has no responsibility to Australian citizens in Indonesia, you know why? BECAUSE THEY ARE OUTSIDE OF AUSTRALIA!

Uhm, that's not true at all.

Australia owes full faith to Australians abroad. Citizenship has both rights and responsibilities for both parties.

Winpheala wrote:

The Greater Aryan Race wrote:Because by placing sanctions Australia would basically be saying "We don't like some of your laws and who cares if you're an independent state with your own jurisdictional rights, we're just gonna wreck your economy because you upset us.". And that effectively means Indonesia cannot implement and enforce her laws without fear of interference from certain neighboring countries.


Err why shouldn't the AFP have tipped off the Indonesian authorities? What if the Bali 9 weren't smuggling drugs out of Indonesia but instead peddling them back there?

Nope. Still not counted as a violation of sovereignty. It's not interference if you depend on one's help and they later choose to not help you.

A country has a duty to protect it's citizens- by tipping them off, they were essentially them to death. I'm not going to get into the whole drugs and death penalty argument here.

It is an attack on Indonesia's government to place sanctions, it is saying that we do not respect their right to lead their own nation, if Indonesia invaded Papua New Guinea, then we would have a reason to impose sanctions. But simply for executing people that they have every right to kill, it is completely insane.

Winpheala wrote:Nope. Still not counted as a violation of sovereignty. It's not interference if you depend on one's help and they later choose to not help you.

Err yes it is. You don't like what your neighbour is doing in his house (whether it's morally right or not is another matter) so you decide to punish him by cutting his electricity supply. You're still interfering in HIS domestic affairs.

And Jesus stop making this out to be a "Poor Indonesia depends on Australia for help". Australia relies on Indonesia's help for a lot things too, such as keeping those boat refugees at bay.

Lyrian Oligarchic Royal Empire wrote:

Roderia wrote:That would be intentionally deceptive, withholding information of a crime taking place in their nation? That is what you want? Well maybe if a mass murderer comes from Indonesia over here, then the Indonesian Authorities may choose not to tip off the Australian Authorities. In addition, The Australian Government has no responsibility to Australian citizens in Indonesia, you know why? BECAUSE THEY ARE OUTSIDE OF AUSTRALIA!

Uhm, that's not true at all.

Australia owes full faith to Australians abroad. Citizenship has both rights and responsibilities for both parties.

What? So Australian Citizens should be subjected only to Australian law wherever they go? What fucking fantasy world are all of you people living in? This isn't how the world works, this isn't how the world should work. Trying to defend criminals in another nation, is saying to Indonesia that we don't think that they deserve the right to have their own Justice System.