Australia recalls Indonesian ambassador after execution

[Dooom35796821595]

It's applicable. In the sense that the death penalty for either of those "crimes" is fucking abhorrent.

Well, the law is the law, and the law is never wrong.

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/KA3RY5f6i6k/maxresdefault.jpg

I AM THE LAW!

[Costa Fierro]

Of course drug smuggling is a crime. I don't know where the fuck people are getting the idea that we think it isn't or shouldn't be from. Or is saying that it shouldn't carry the maximum penalty possible for anything now the same as saying it shouldn't be a crime?

Because putting something in quotation marks implies that one doesn't believe that something is what it is.

If you come out as homosexual in Iran, that would be willingly admitting to committing a crime.

You cannot commit a crime for being who you are.

A lot of people are driven to drug smuggling out of necessity.

The two that were executed weren't exactly on their bones. One worked as a supervisor in a catering company and the other worked in a mail room. It's not like they came from the poorest and most deprived suburbs. They were people earning a living who were tempted to make extra money and "live the high life" so to speak.

Take the Filipino woman who barely had her sentence staid. Do you deny that execution for drug smuggling is awful and should stop?

Do you deny that drug smuggling is a crime?

I put "crime" in italics due to the nature of what we're discussing.

Ah, so it's "subjective" is it?

[Aethrys]

You're entitled to an opinion. Doesn't make it an absolute truth, though.

Unless 51% of the population supports it, in which case any measure, now matter how extreme, is justifiable in support of it.

Or, you know, it means that a majority of the population believes the issue in question is a significant problem impacting their country and is in favor of taking action to combat it. The laws of a nation reflect it's values and priorities. Like how the Japanese are very much in favor of their whaling industry. Do a majority of foreigners support it? No. Doesn't mean the Japanese don't think it's important.

[MERIZoC]

Widodo can go fuck himself. “I will reject clemency request submitted by 64 death [row inmates] convicted of drugs cases," is not a statement made by someone committed to liberalism.

Considering that he has granted clemency to one of the inmates, I'm pretty sure the statement was largely meant for political purposes, rather than from his own personal beliefs.

He granted clemency due to very special circumstances (someone basically admitted to coercing her into it), so you'll forgive me if I doubt his moral resolve.

[Costa Fierro]

That's bullshit. Why should he demand clemency for her when his government handed down and carried out death sentences against foreigners in his own country?

Either don't execute foreigners in your own country and demand clemency, thus having a moral standpoint from which to make said demands, or execute foreigners and don't demand clemency. Doing what he is doing is basically saying "I don't approve of execution unless it happens to be against foreigners in Indonesia".

The person in question is one of the foreigners sentenced to death for smuggling heroin into Indonesia. Not an Indonesian being sentenced to death in another country.

Ah. I was thinking about the Indonesian maid in Saudi Arabia that was beheaded for what convoluted reasons there.

[Ikania]

Absolutely bullshit. This is completely unnecessary and barbaric, and all countries should cut off contact with Indonesia to teach them a lesson.

For having the death penalty for what's considered a major crime there?..

And? Guess we should forgive North Korea because that's just their mindset. It's a terrible reasoning, and a major human rights abuse.

[MERIZoC]

If you come out as homosexual in Iran, that would be willingly admitting to committing a crime.

1: You cannot commit a crime for being who you are.

A lot of people are driven to drug smuggling out of necessity.

2: The two that were executed weren't exactly on their bones. One worked as a supervisor in a catering company and the other worked in a mail room. It's not like they came from the poorest and most deprived suburbs. They were people earning a living who were tempted to make extra money and "live the high life" so to speak.

Take the Filipino woman who barely had her sentence staid. Do you deny that execution for drug smuggling is awful and should stop?

3: Do you deny that drug smuggling is a crime?

I put "crime" in italics due to the nature of what we're discussing.

4: Ah, so it's "subjective" is it?

1: Apparently you can in Iran.
2: And other people who have faced the same fate?
3: Obviously not, seeing as 8 people just died for it.
4: You're being pedantic over an unimportant part of my post. I put crime in quotes because I didn't think people would take to kindly to me referring to homosexuality as a crime.

[Wisconsin9]

Of course drug smuggling is a crime. I don't know where the fuck people are getting the idea that we think it isn't or shouldn't be from. Or is saying that it shouldn't carry the maximum penalty possible for anything now the same as saying it shouldn't be a crime?

Because putting something in quotation marks implies that one doesn't believe that something is what it is.

Which, as I already said, I didn't notice.

Unless 51% of the population supports it, in which case any measure, now matter how extreme, is justifiable in support of it.

Or, you know, it means that a majority of the population believes the issue in question is a significant problem impacting their country and is in favor of taking action to combat it. The laws of a nation reflect it's values and priorities. Like how the Japanese are very much in favor of their whaling industry. Do a majority of foreigners support it? No. Doesn't mean the Japanese don't think it's important.

People can be stupid, or hoodwinked, or psychotic. There's no shortage of things that cause people to make bad decisions.

[Geilinor]

It's applicable. In the sense that the death penalty for either of those "crimes" is fucking abhorrent.

Well, the law is the law, and the law is never wrong.

This is going to happen until Indonesia changes its law.

[Costa Fierro]

1: Apparently you can in Iran.

You do realize people can just call you a homosexual and if they have proof, you could be executed.

2: And other people who have faced the same fate?

They weren't "driven" to smuggle the drugs out of "necessity".

4: You're being pedantic over an unimportant part of my post. I put crime in quotes because I didn't think people would take to kindly to me referring to homosexuality as a crime.

You implied that drug smuggling wasn't a crime. Forgive me for thinking that "either of these "crimes"" wasn't referring to drug smuggling alongside homosexuality.

[Azurand]

Singapore and Malaysia isn't that bad. At least, they're not primitive.

Singapore also enforces death penalty for drug dealers under the Misuse of Drugs Act.

Thousands of people died in Indonesia from drug abuse. I don’t necessarily find death penalty as the best solution for drugs problem (or any other problems), nor do I refuse to acknowledge the inefficiency of Indonesian anti-drugs enforcers, but many Indonesians are sickened already by the constant intervention of Australians to our domestic policies. I understand that they seek to protect their own citizens, but likewise, the Indonesian government also seek to protect theirs.

[MERIZoC]

1: Apparently you can in Iran.

You do realize people can just call you a homosexual and if they have proof, you could be executed.

….I don't know where the hell you're going with this. What it comes down to is that people should not be put to death for, well, anything really, but certainly not something like smuggling drugs. Do you dispute that?

[Geilinor]

You do realize people can just call you a homosexual and if they have proof, you could be executed.

….I don't know where the hell you're going with this. What it comes down to is that people should not be put to death for, well, anything really, but certainly not something like smuggling drugs. Do you dispute that?

He's saying that heterosexual people can be executed for supposedly being gay.

[Costa Fierro]

….I don't know where the hell you're going with this. What it comes down to is that people should not be put to death for, well, anything really, but certainly not something like smuggling drugs. Do you dispute that?

I think that if you try to do something like smuggle drugs into a place where they have the death penalty for drug smuggling, you shouldn't be surprised when the death penalty is applied.

I'm opposed to the death penalty being used, essentially, for crimes of conscience. That is, essentially for being who you are, for what you believe in. I'm less opposed to having it for crimes that are committed knowing full well that what is being done is illegal and knowing the consequences of their actions.

Don't forget that Shappelle Corby was imprisoned and nearly executed in Indonesia for the same crime. The Bali 9 committed the same crime after Shappelle Corby was imprisoned. They knew what they were getting into and I have no sympathy for someone who does something illegal willingly.

[MERIZoC]

….I don't know where the hell you're going with this. What it comes down to is that people should not be put to death for, well, anything really, but certainly not something like smuggling drugs. Do you dispute that?

I think that if you try to do something like smuggle drugs into a place where they have the death penalty for drug smuggling, you shouldn't be surprised when the death penalty is applied.

I'm opposed to the death penalty being used, essentially, for crimes of conscience. That is, essentially for being who you are, for what you believe in. I'm less opposed to having it for crimes that are committed knowing full well that what is being done is illegal and knowing the consequences of their actions.

Don't forget that Shappelle Corby was imprisoned and nearly executed in Indonesia for the same crime. The Bali 9 committed the same crime after Shappelle Corby was imprisoned. They knew what they were getting into and I have no sympathy for someone who does something illegal willingly.

Then I'm sorry for your chronic case of selective empathy.

[Geilinor]

I think that if you try to do something like smuggle drugs into a place where they have the death penalty for drug smuggling, you shouldn't be surprised when the death penalty is applied.

I'm opposed to the death penalty being used, essentially, for crimes of conscience. That is, essentially for being who you are, for what you believe in. I'm less opposed to having it for crimes that are committed knowing full well that what is being done is illegal and knowing the consequences of their actions.

Don't forget that Shappelle Corby was imprisoned and nearly executed in Indonesia for the same crime. The Bali 9 committed the same crime after Shappelle Corby was imprisoned. They knew what they were getting into and I have no sympathy for someone who does something illegal willingly.

Then I'm sorry for your chronic case of selective empathy.

Empathy is for injustice, but these people did know what they were getting into.

[Aethrys]

I think that if you try to do something like smuggle drugs into a place where they have the death penalty for drug smuggling, you shouldn't be surprised when the death penalty is applied.

I'm opposed to the death penalty being used, essentially, for crimes of conscience. That is, essentially for being who you are, for what you believe in. I'm less opposed to having it for crimes that are committed knowing full well that what is being done is illegal and knowing the consequences of their actions.

Don't forget that Shappelle Corby was imprisoned and nearly executed in Indonesia for the same crime. The Bali 9 committed the same crime after Shappelle Corby was imprisoned. They knew what they were getting into and I have no sympathy for someone who does something illegal willingly.

Then I'm sorry for your chronic case of selective empathy.

"Oh those poor drug smugglers! All they wanted was to move a few million dollars worth of heroin. Why must people be so cruel to those who dare to dream?"

[Charlotte Ryberg]

Executions of foreigners make me so depressed in an already troubled international political climate.

[Macedom]

So they'll excute 2 low level Australian drug smugglers but they didnt excute the 32 INDONESIANS who killed 202 (88 of which were Australian) and wounded another 209.
http://www.9news.com.au/world/2014/05/0 ... -from-jail

[Norstal]

Absolutely bullshit. This is completely unnecessary and barbaric, and all countries should cut off contact with Indonesia to teach them a lesson.

No, that's just stupid. Though I am open to a foreign liberation of my home country. I wish the Dutch would come back.

So they'll excute 2 low level Australian drug smugglers but they didnt excute the 32 INDONESIANS who killed 202 (88 of which were Australian) and wounded another 209.
http://www.9news.com.au/world/2014/05/0 ... -from-jail

You shouldn't expect justice from an Islamist dominated government.

[Atlanticatia]

Empathy is for injustice, but these people did know what they were getting into.

Even those who may have committed crimes deserve their human rights and dignity.

[Donut section]

The worst part is the Australian Federal Police tipped off the Indonesian police instead of arresting them here.

"The AFP received a tip off about a suspected heroin importation plot in 2005 but instead of arresting the young Australians, it allowed them to leave the country. It then tipped off Indonesian authorities.

Neil Mitchell said the AFP should have arrested them in Australia.

"They had their seat numbers, they had their passport details, they knew who they were and what they were doing," he explained on 3AW Mornings.

"They could have arrested them all in Australia."

http://m.3aw.com.au/news/australian-fed ... mvtk9.html

This is murder by proxy by the AFP.

As far as I'm concerned Australia should place an embargo on Indonesia and eject all Indonesian citizens living here.

[Wisconsin9]

The worst part is the Australian Federal Police tipped off the Indonesian police instead of arresting them here.

"The AFP received a tip off about a suspected heroin importation plot in 2005 but instead of arresting the young Australians, it allowed them to leave the country. It then tipped off Indonesian authorities.

Neil Mitchell said the AFP should have arrested them in Australia.

"They had their seat numbers, they had their passport details, they knew who they were and what they were doing," he explained on 3AW Mornings.

"They could have arrested them all in Australia."

http://m.3aw.com.au/news/australian-fed ... mvtk9.html

This is murder by proxy by the AFP.

As far as I'm concerned Australia should place an embargo on Indonesia and eject all Indonesian citizens living here.

Right, because nothing screams "Stop this injustice!" quite like deporting tens of thousands of people who have done absolutely nothing to deserve it.

[Genivaria]

The worst part is the Australian Federal Police tipped off the Indonesian police instead of arresting them here.

"The AFP received a tip off about a suspected heroin importation plot in 2005 but instead of arresting the young Australians, it allowed them to leave the country. It then tipped off Indonesian authorities.

Neil Mitchell said the AFP should have arrested them in Australia.

"They had their seat numbers, they had their passport details, they knew who they were and what they were doing," he explained on 3AW Mornings.

"They could have arrested them all in Australia."

http://m.3aw.com.au/news/australian-fed ... mvtk9.html

This is murder by proxy by the AFP.

As far as I'm concerned Australia should place an embargo on Indonesia and eject all Indonesian citizens living here.

Well that's really fucking racist.

[Donut section]

The worst part is the Australian Federal Police tipped off the Indonesian police instead of arresting them here.

"The AFP received a tip off about a suspected heroin importation plot in 2005 but instead of arresting the young Australians, it allowed them to leave the country. It then tipped off Indonesian authorities.

Neil Mitchell said the AFP should have arrested them in Australia.

"They had their seat numbers, they had their passport details, they knew who they were and what they were doing," he explained on 3AW Mornings.

"They could have arrested them all in Australia."

http://m.3aw.com.au/news/australian-fed ... mvtk9.html

This is murder by proxy by the AFP.

As far as I'm concerned Australia should place an embargo on Indonesia and eject all Indonesian citizens living here.

Well that's really fucking racist.

Indonesian is not a race.